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The Rise of Skywalker (2019) social media impressions
- Thread starter Cross-Section
- Start date
So you want to do the whole you don't understand kind of argument. Again why he is the way he is is explained enough, I am saying ITS NOT COMPELLING in the way the story is presented, they don't do anything interesting with it. Again I ask you where do you think they should go with his character from here? What would be a fitting conclusion to Kylo Ren?
you clearly feel something for that character I do not, so what is? I feel a movies job is to create emotional connections of the viewer to the characters and this series in general does a great job of that. What am I supposed to feel for Kylo, anger, fear, sympathy, confusion? I hate him only cause he killed Han Solo and he is an asshole not because of any great character building they have done. The throne scene was amazing, I thought wow maybe they are going to go a route with this character that could be interesting and nope, he is just going to stay spiraling out of control as a bad guy. I guess seeing an empire being run by totally emotionally unstable wannabe could be interesting but I doubt that's what TROS is going to be about.
So I ask you what do you feel toward the character and what do you feel is a fulfilling conclusion after where TLJ took him.
This might be a controversial take, but I really think Snoke should've been Plagiues or a clone of him. Not necessarily solely to resolve that plot thread, but rather to resolve the story of the Skywalkers themselves since Plagiues was at least the catalyst to their conception. It's a pretty big piece of the puzzle that is the Skywalker saga that just never gets touched upon.
Kylo is the connecting tissue between every single part of the conflict.
What do you feel is the fitting conclusion for someone who has been radicalized by the alt right?
Read the expressions of the characters as they look at him or talk about him or even how he talks about himself, his mannerisms, cadences, expressions, actions.They show you exactly how you're supposed to feel.
He literally was looking at a throne before proposing that they take over the galaxy, NOTHING about that speech indicated that he was starting something new.
Snoke being killed off before he had a chance to get developed is the best thing this entire trilogy did
when TFA first came out everyone came up with their own little subverted expectations for Snoke (what if he's a little guy?! what if he's more like a Yoda figure... but evil?!!!) and then they got mad when he ended up being normal sized and Kylo did the thing that both makes sense for his character and makes sense for every sith since before Palpatine
"People wanted Snoke to be interesting and got mad when he ended up not being interesting"
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Journalists being incredibly sensationalist I see. A "nightmare" lol.
His thoughts on TLJ if anyone is interested.
You'll notice that a lot of the ideas don't have any actual thematic weight or meaning behind them, just twists for the sake of a twist that could neatly fill out a wookiepedia page. That describes most fan theories in general, it's fun to speculate some batshit ideas but it gets bad when people start to take those seriously enough that they consider the lack of a convoluted story filled with twists upon twists for the sake of them to not only inherently be a flaw but also a better alternative than a clear and concise film with themes and messages that don't bog down the audience with exposition
No of course they haven't.
Edit:Most anyway. But they read leaks which is obviously just as good.
Yeah nothing says interesting like "just like every other Sith we know."
I wonder if we knew Snoke about as well as we knew Palpatine? It has been a while since I saw the original trilogy.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the original plan, since his massive scar seems to suggest he has a specific history (attacked by Palpatine), his theme is a version of Plagiues' theme from ROTS or very close, and the foreshadowing 'The Supreme Leader is wise'. Might be confusing to casual viewers who can't remember the opera house scene but there's was a very good amount of reason to believe he was Plagiues.
He's done enough where he deserves death but I don't think they have the balls to do that.
Oh he's struggling with the light, the conflict is so great, again I would care about this more if I knew anything about this character before he was an asshole. The only connection I have is that the characters I love love him. Rey feels some connection because of the way they are opposites yet share some parallel traits. And Luke was mostly done with him which I loved, he was over him and over trying to save him. What steps did TLJ take to make Kylo's final act more interesting?
I don't know what you think I was saying about the throne room. I felt the moment when he kills Snoke could maybe be a turning point but it was just confirmation that yes he is an irredeemable jackass. Just any hint that maybe pursuing a redemption for him would be a worthy effort, but no there is none of that. I still feel the most drama comes from his relationship to his family, Leia having to confront her son and make the decision to have him killed or further explore what happens to the parents of a "child mass murderer" would be very compelling but we basically lost Leia. Rey is going to have to carry the load for the emotional connection to Kylo. Will there be some conflict in how to approach him between her and ghost Luke, maybe that could be interesting. If the story comes down to you are bad, I am good, let's fight that's not that compelling (even though the fight will probably be a great spectacle so I will enjoy it)
That's why they turned him into something interesting by getting rid of him!
He has the same opinion as me about TLJ so I am already worried.
So do you feel someone who was failed and radicalized deserves to be redeemed if he sees the error of his ways or he is far too gone and even a redeemed but death ending like Vader would be too nice for him?
Hard to get a feeling where you are exactly standing with this. Rian Johnson has said he believes he could be redeemed still, but then he is a nazi who has helped to wipe out planets
When people write stuff like that it's implied that it would be executed well and be important and resonate with the rest of the film.
If all you read was some post saying "I hope Kylo kills Snoke half way into the movie" you wouldn't know how it relates to the films broader themes either.
I don't necessarily agree with that. It would really depend on how well those ideas were executed. But to that point, even the overwhelming majority of fan theories were still far more interesting and exciting than the direction TLJ took Snokes character.
But to be fair, I wouldn't have minded how TLJ turned Snoke into a non character if Kylo's arc hadn't ended with him being the same angry bumbling antsy Anakin style loser he'd been throughout the movies. I thought the the killing of Snoke would be the iconic moment he developed as a character and villain into someone far more capable and wise, but moments after killing Snoke he returns to being an over emotional fool.
The reality is that Kylo simply doesn't have the imposing menace, wisdom and prowess to fit being the primary villain, at least not in the way the first two movies projected him anyway.
I think the thing is - Kylo didn't need to be Darth Vader 2. If he WAS, it would suck. The whole point is that his entire persona is concocted off of a lie he's telling himself about Vader. He needed to discard that mindset and become a new kind of villain, not just another IMPOSING DARK FIGURE with a red lightsaber and black armor.
I love how people are talking about this being the end of a saga when there is literally the first of like a dozen confirmed star wars products debuting on disney plus right the fuck now. FFS they gave rian johnson a trilogy before his movie was even out. This is the end of nothing,
We've never had an antagonist like Kylo going into the final film. With the parallels being intentional as they only emphasize how different he is from Vader and even Anakin.
Maybe let's wait for the actual story.
How do you execute an idea that has no theme or message well beyond surface level visuals in a franchise
Uh, yes you could. There would be immediate parallels to Vader.
Literally though, a script written by TLJ would most likely have as much clunky exposition and twists as a KH script...
End of the Skywalker Saga specifically. Not the end of SW in general.
Sounds like a rhetorical question to me! (Yes.)
...until 3:01 a.m. ET on Weds Dec 18 (meaning, 3.5 hours from right meow). That's when our VERY CAREFULLY WRITTEN AND SPOILER-FREE review goes live at arstechnica.com!
My phone is lighting up with friends asking "did you like it?" I have responded to them all with "yes, but..." and nothing else. "Nightmare" isn't the word I'd use. Resounding, obvious success isn't, either. I liked TLJ more than TFA, but liked them both with their own respective caveats and asterisks, if you're checking my pulse.
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I do hope you enjoy the movie
I do hope I enjoy the movie as well
Well that's good to hear. By the way, how was the humor treatment in it? I really enjoyed how quick and fast they played it in TFA, but in TLJ I didn't like how the film seemed to take a break from everything happening at that time just to set up a joke. Also was it fun to see the main cast together finally? That's probably the one thing I'm super optimistic about in this one.
Same. I was hesitantly optimistic, but that's exactly how I feel about TLJ. Ouch.
I don't think it was possible to make Snoke interesting, he was just another emperor who looked like Voldermort. Even if they gave him the full Plagueis backstory in TLJ, it still would have the wrong character to be the mail villain because he's too much a cliched archetype of what came before. My guess is ROS will explain who he is, but a thrown away explanation like he was just a manifestation of Palpatine's clinging to the world of the living. And that's why is has the red guards and grooms Kylo Ren to be new Vader.
The difference is that the rest of the cast had meaningful, fully realized stories in ROTJ. TLJ was such a waste of time. So much of the side-plot was either Seinfeld goofy - like the whole mutiny detour w/ Poe was easily avoidable; or when it wasn't goofy, it was frustrating. Everyone would have been better off if Finn had simply done nothing the whole movie. Maybe on a surface level it had certain parallels to the OT - but the quality of writing was not there.
But what he became instead was far less interesting and imposing. It's true a villain doesn't have to just be an imposing dark figure, but if a villain is not going to menacing in that way, they need to have other qualities and features that make them interesting or imposing instead, be it intelligence, wit, foresight, psychological aptitude or whatever else.
Whether you're talking about Joker, Hannibal Lector, Darth Vader, Voldemort, Thanos, Anton Chighurh, Hans Landa, Le Chiffre or whatever other well depicted villain, they all have qualities or traits that make them especially menacing or intriguing, or captivating to watch, but Kylo simply doesn't process that. Infact, towards the end of TLJ he almost becomes annoying and frustrating to watch instead. By the end of TLJ I was bored and uninterested in Kylos ineptitude and petulance.
