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Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
Oh boy, 3 replies already. It's OK to have different opinions guys. I have no intention to try changing yours. Let's just say that I expected more from Luke after he learnt that Han Solo was killed and that Kylo and the Order were wrecking Leia and the Resistance. Again, let's agree to disagree

I just re-watched TLJ last night and I can't remember if he addressed Han dying, but it's likely that decades without contact and Han also breaking up(?) with his sister didn't do wonders for their friendship, and he does some pretty significant things in the second half of the movie for his sister, who I assume he trusts to keep herself safe with The Force up until the last moment.

Not trying to change your mind or come for you, just giving my perspective here.

I have a lot of qualms with TLJ and a swashbuckling, heroic Luke might have been cool, but ultimately it would have felt creatively cheaper than what we did get.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
It's not like I expected anything less from Abrams. You can make a movie with plenty of fanservice like Endgame did without blatant pandering and trying to earn brownie points with the fanbase.

TFA was bad enough as it was with that.

I love Endgame but are you actually insane. It was 3 hours of blatant pandering and trying to earn brownie points with the fanbase.
 

gig

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,276
Everyone thinks they are so god damn clever. The Game of Thrones one is especially eye roll inducing.

This is what happens when you encourage reactions to reactions of reactions. People always say that individual forums or sites are echo chambers but in reality it's the whole fucking internet that's the problem.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,864
Jesus. It kinda feels like the people with the most glowing reactions posted them right after leaving the theatre and everyone else just marinaded their thoughts overnight. I know I hate JJ Abrams but some of these takes are brutal to read.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,341
Ironically enough, your post is exactly the first lesson Luke was trying to teach Rey. The Force doesn't belong to the Jedi. Having a connection to the Force isn't the sole purview of the Jedi.

Even Yoda says this in Empire, and Obi-Wan in A New Hope. The Force resides in all matter, and in between all matter. And some people have an affinity for accessing it compared to others. The Jedi were specifically looking for people that showed a high affinity for connecting with the Force.

Han doesn't connect with the Force not because he can't, but because he has no interest or desire to try. Luke fails to lift his X-Wing out of the swamp, not because he can't, but because he doesn't think he can do it. So no, Han couldn't have become a Jedi specifically, but he's still a part of the Force, and possibly had Force potential if he was open enough to tap into it and let it flow through him.

Being a Jedi or Sith isn't the sole purpose of the Force. What Luke was teaching Rey (and the audience, who also share her misunderstanding that only Jedi and Sith can wield the Force), is the Force is more than just the Jedi, Sith, and lifting rocks. Though Rian humorously has her lifting a shit ton of rocks at the end of the film, which I loved.

Luke wanted to end the Jedi because people's insistence that the Jedi way was the only way to resolve conflict or to engage with the Force is flawed. In a way, it parallels modern religious conflict. I was raised Christian, but it's foolish to think that it is the only path in life, or the only ethic standard by which people should live their lives and find meaning and purpose, and that those that either follow a different faith, or don't believe in any faith at all are wrong or bad people.

Luke did come to realize that the people's adulation of the Jedi and the idea of the Jedi could prove useful in galvanizing them to reach into themselves and find the strength to fight against the totalitarianism of the First Order in their own way. Much like Poe coming to realize that hopping in a ship and blowing things up isn't the only way to be a "hero," or to lead and inspire people.

You don't have to be a Jedi to access the Force. The Force is in everything. It belongs to everyone. Much like Star Wars.

The Force is in all living things (thats not new information in The Last Jedi, it's been the case for the entirety of the franchise as you point out) and that living thing can call itself Jedi or Sith or whatever the hell it wants (ability to use the Force isnt in a name) but if that living thing doesn't have the appropriate midichlorian count, its not gonna be wielding the Force in any significant manner. And Last Jedi didn't change that. If everyone in the universe had the capability to use force powers, why isn't everyone in the universe using force powers? Because they dont have a high midichlorian count. Why were Qui Gon and Obi Wan so marveled by Anakin? Because his midichlorian count was off the charts! Higher than Master Yoda's! We gotta train this boy!
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Jesus. It kinda feels like the people with the most glowing reactions posted them right after leaving the theatre and everyone else just marinaded their thoughts overnight. I know I hate JJ Abrams but some of these takes are brutal to read.

Like all JJ Abrams movies, this is absolutely going to be a film where many people leave the theater with a big grin and only a couple hours later start to go "Wait......what?!"
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I'm curious when Star Wars is going to go the Buck Rogers / Flash Gordon serial route and fade from the public consciousness. Maybe Marvel is quickening that fate.
Never? Pretty sure Star Wars is an established part of pop culture regardless of what Disney does going froward. There's a reason the series is referenced and parodied even after all this time.

Besides the spin offs seem to be doing alright.
 

DJwest

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,153
I just re-watched TLJ last night and I can't remember if he addressed Han dying, but it's likely that decades without contact and Han also breaking up(?) with his sister didn't do wonders for their friendship, and he does some pretty significant things in the second half of the movie for his sister, who I assume he trusts to keep herself safe with The Force up until the last moment.

Not trying to change your mind or come for you, just giving my perspective here.

I have a lot of qualms with TLJ and a swashbuckling, heroic Luke might have been cool, but ultimately it would have felt creatively cheaper than what we did get.
That's like the nicest response I've ever gotten in a Star Wars thread! Thanks. I didn't consider the fact that he broke up with Leia even though they seemed still fond of each other in TFA. Interesting perspective though
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,864
Like all JJ Abrams movies, this is absolutely going to be a film where many people leave the theater with a big grin and only a couple hours later start to go "Wait......what?!"

Pretty much. Flashy and shiny, but prone to collapsing as soon as you think about them for more than five seconds.
 

gig

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,276
Jesus. It kinda feels like the people with the most glowing reactions posted them right after leaving the theatre and everyone else just marinaded their thoughts overnight. I know I hate JJ Abrams but some of these takes are brutal to read.

There was an additional screening today, I believe.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,573
I tend to like Jenna Busch's reviews so if she's that blown away, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
 

Meows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,399
This is just an observation:
So, is using food analogies when talking about a movie a thing now?
In The Mood for Love, it's undying impact.

p01ytsfg.jpg
 

Completely Anonymous

alt account
Banned
Jun 7, 2019
861
So, Rey is impossibly powerful from what I can tell. My guess is Kylo is somehow redeemed, and the other characters provide great filler. Sounds like a Star Wars movie to me