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What do you think will happen with the DualSense haptics?

  • They'll be widely adopted by third party and first party devs

    Votes: 380 28.0%
  • Third party won't adopt them for most games, but first party will still show off

    Votes: 538 39.6%
  • They'll get abandoned after the first year or two

    Votes: 441 32.5%

  • Total voters
    1,359

Magio

Member
Apr 14, 2020
647
I'm sure plenty of third parties will make cool things with the haptics/adaptive triggers, but many others will just use the haptics as a rumble substitute and be done with it. But since Sony does seem to have made it easy to leverage those features, hopefully the latter won't be too frequent.
 

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
I truly do not understand people saying "I don't like thing, will turn off" before even trying it. Baffled and a half at that opinion/mindset.
 

Deleted member 9584

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,132
I've said lmaooo once, because it was funny after asking you for a single single example you just kept throwing out hypotheticals that are backing my argument and not yours, that was the last straw.

I don't understand why its so difficult to understand that EVERY MECHANIC will show off haptics. I don't know if you believe that game devs are walking sychophants for sony or something, but they're not going to add a corridor filled with mud to show off haptics when players have probably felt mud 20 times before in the same game, and theyre not going to add a whole ass durability system to their weapons to show off haptics that could just as easily be felt with a normal bow.

Like man, if you can point out a single single single single hypothetical that supports your "concern" I could maybe see your point, but you just keep saying "BUT IMAGINE IF THEY DO" and acting like anyone's supposed to take you seriously.
hy·po·thet·i·cal
adjective
supposed but not necessarily real or true.

im·ag·ine
verb
suppose or assume.


I provided you with a hypothetical situation where the concept of feeling haptics would motivate a developer to add a mechanic / scenario they otherwise wouldn't, but you are dismissing them as "theyre not going to add [that because reasons]." The hypothetical / scenario I describe doesn't have to be real or true, which is why I included the definition of hypothetical for you.
 

Bundy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,931
One of the best and most hyped things for me next gen. The DualSense controller and PS5's SSD/short loading times.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
What's funny is I don't remember anywhere near the amount of vitriol for the Switch HD rumble.

There was for sure. You must've tuned it out. But most of this here isn't necessarily vitriol, it's being realistic. Like I said in the previous thread about this feature, if you've gamed on Nintendo systems you know how the adoption of unique controller features go. Whether the console is popular or unpopular, whether the features are used in 1st party showcases titles or not, unique controller feature are more than likely to not catch on than they are to. And this isn't just on Nintendo system, the PS systems have had controller features too that have largely gone unused aside from a small subset of titles.

I'd say the last major controller addition that's really started catching on is gyro, and it took every Nintendo system since the Wii (starting with the motion+, so not standard admittedly), with their major franchises using motion controls, every PS controller since the DS3 controller, smart phones, the Steam Controller AND people constantly hounding 3rd party devs about gyro controls on Switch ports before it really started being prevalent. How insane is it that it took that much time and inertia for a controller feature that every device/controller, but the Xbox controller uses to really catch on?
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,990
Sounds awesome. What's interesting is that some of the titles listed are third party or multi-platform games, which I didn't expect to take advantage of the DualSense in a similar way.

This is probably helping no?

www.psu.com

The PS5 DualSense Controller Can Generate Haptic Feedback From Sound And Effects - PlayStation Universe

Sony has revealed in a new Tech PowerPoint that the PS5 DualSense controller can generate Haptic Feedback from sound effects.
Although DualSense will allow for more realistic game experiences, creators will also need more time and know-how to create high-quality vibrations. To reduce this burden, we have created a haptic vibration waveform design environment that anyone can use easily. In this way, we have not only developed a tool that allows game creators to design an impactful, natural and comfortable vibration waveform in fewer steps, but also created a method of almost automatically generating vibration patterns from a game's sound effects.
The focus of our development was deep neural network technology, but the problem was that there were few past studies that applied this technology to the sense of touch rather than to images and sounds. In the beginning, we spent many days just agonizing over the data. Later, we studied and examined different algorithms while getting advice from experts. This allowed us to automate the generation of high-quality vibration waveforms to a certain extent, making it look as if they were created manually by the creators.

Or at least freeing up more time to work on other features of the controller.
 

Ricky_R

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
Tbh, this type of stuff is usually pretty unimportant to me, but I'm obviously open to be impressed by it. I just hope it's a feature devs focus on for the duration of the generation instead of becoming an afterthought after the excitement wears out.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,620
First parties will dopt them for early games then drop them so soon and some thrid parties will use them more than first parties, just like what is happened with DS4 features.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Some of these uses sound good. Some of these uses do not sound good.

The problem isn't that they're better or worse than the rumble Xbox triggers. They're different - and by design they have MORE of an impact on your experience. That can be an awesome thing, but they could also be a PITA. The NBA 2k21 example sounds like a nightmare. I don't want my triggers tiring ME out when my player gets tired. wtf? no thank you.

I'm not sure I want triggers on driving games to be harder or easier to depress through the cycle. I'd want it to be consistent. There's a REALLY cool immersion factor of having the trigger have different resistances for different vehicles, but in practice after the first few times, I'd think I just want it to be consistent, right? We switch cars in games so often, that it'd end up being a liability.

Anyway, I'm not as impressed by these ideas. But I remain open to being impressed by the execution. We shall see :D
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I think alot of people don't understand what force feedback is. It's what racing wheels do. It's a motor that pushes back against you.

Anyhow I expect mostly first party in the long run, but it looks like third parties are off to a decent start.
 

Daxa

Member
Jan 10, 2018
622
As long as I don't have to shake my controller furiously to fix a flashlight again.
 

ANDS

Banned
Jun 25, 2019
566
Personally wouldn't call any of that mind blowing. The Joy-Con experience is so so, I just don't believe it's going to be that enticing going forward,

From an immersion standpoint I think it's pretty impressive. Feedback to the user might seem minor but for players who really get into their games I think the above would count as "blowing of minds" quality.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
This is probably helping no?

www.psu.com

The PS5 DualSense Controller Can Generate Haptic Feedback From Sound And Effects - PlayStation Universe

Sony has revealed in a new Tech PowerPoint that the PS5 DualSense controller can generate Haptic Feedback from sound effects.


Or at least freeing up more time to work on other features of the controller.

I'd never heard of this, but I'm assuming this is ap big help to developers in terms of automising certain DualSense haptic features
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,648
My only question is will controllers get broken if you try to push the triggers past the "locked" state? For example when your gun is jammed in Deathloop, would it be hurtful to the controller to push hard?
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,115
One of the best and most hyped things for me next gen. The DualSense controller and PS5's SSD/short loading times.
Yup, I'm really excited. It's good to see so much 1st and 3rd party support already in mechanics that make sense. Like the way that adaptive trigger is blocked when the gun jams so that you feel it immediately and can react to it quickly. Sounds cool. Of course all these features are yet to be experienced so opinions could change but as of right now I'm feeling optimistic and I can't wait to try them.
 

Deleted member 9584

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,132
My only question is will controllers get broken if you try to push the triggers past the "locked" state? For example when your gun is jammed in Deathloop, would it be hurtful to the controller to push hard?
I'm curious about this as well. For some reason this thought popped into my mind:

Game / DS5 : you can't pull the trigger, the gun is jammed

Gamer: hold my beer..
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
I really hope Doom PS5 will use this. All I want is one final good bye before it goes full exclusive.


The guns in Doom sound like thry could be amazing using this tech.
 

Bundy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,931
Yup, I'm really excited. It's good to see so much 1st and 3rd party support already in mechanics that make sense. Like the way that adaptive trigger is blocked when the gun jams so that you feel it immediately and can react to it quickly. Sounds cool. Of course all these features are yet to be experienced so opinions could change but as of right now I'm feeling optimistic and I can't wait to try them.
Yep. So awesome. PS5 is the only next-gen console with a true next-gen controller for me. Super hyped.
 

Modest_Modsoul

Living the Dreams
Member
Oct 29, 2017
23,637
Astro's Playroom will have the privilege for being the first game for everyone to try & feel DualSense.








Assuming 'everyone' actually play Playroom first with their new PS5 that is...
 
OP
OP
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,580
Astro's Playroom will have the privilege for being the first game for everyone to try & feel DualSense.








Assuming 'everyone' actually play Playroom first with their new PS5 that is...
I hope Sony blocks people from installing other games until they get the plat trophy for Astro's Playroom
 
OP
OP
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,580
Some of these uses sound good. Some of these uses do not sound good.

The problem isn't that they're better or worse than the rumble Xbox triggers. They're different - and by design they have MORE of an impact on your experience. That can be an awesome thing, but they could also be a PITA. The NBA 2k21 example sounds like a nightmare. I don't want my triggers tiring ME out when my player gets tired. wtf? no thank you.

I'm not sure I want triggers on driving games to be harder or easier to depress through the cycle. I'd want it to be consistent. There's a REALLY cool immersion factor of having the trigger have different resistances for different vehicles, but in practice after the first few times, I'd think I just want it to be consistent, right? We switch cars in games so often, that it'd end up being a liability.

Anyway, I'm not as impressed by these ideas. But I remain open to being impressed by the execution. We shall see :D
If anything, the extra feedback would make you more consistent, not less. That's one of the main reasons why DS4 players are at a big disadvantage vs Wheel players on Gran Turismo Sport, since you have to rely on visual cues for most feedback about how your car is behaving when playing on a controller.
 
Nov 2, 2019
946
Abandoned. I just finished TLOU2 and Days Gone and I don't remember using the touchpad once other than as a button. It'll be used by 3rd and 1st party at launch, 3rd party will taper off in a year or so, then 1st party will follow.
 

Modest_Modsoul

Living the Dreams
Member
Oct 29, 2017
23,637
I hope Sony blocks people from installing other games until they get the plat trophy for Astro's Playroom
That actually would be great.

tenor.gif


At least, it'll increase awareness of Astro & Asobi Team.
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,526
Brazil
That Sony material that talks about how easy it is to transform a soundwave into haptic feedback makes me thing that at least this feature will be present in most games throughout the gen. I'm not sure about the adaptive triggers though, because multiplayer games don't seem fit for this kind of mechanic, specially shooters. I'm okay with that, I hate rumble but I love haptics, specially iPhone haptics and I believe DualSense's will be even better.

I hope Bungie will introduce cool haptics for supers and abilities.
 

Mubrik_

Member
Dec 7, 2017
2,725
I think it's got potential.
Well implemented Haptic feedback + 3D audio could replace enemy/attack HUD indicators (optionally)
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
Abandoned. I just finished TLOU2 and Days Gone and I don't remember using the touchpad once other than as a button. It'll be used by 3rd and 1st party at launch, 3rd party will taper off in a year or so, then 1st party will follow.
Days Gone's touchpad use was actually great though. You could swipe 4 different directions to bring up different screens. I wish that was standard in a lot of games.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
If anything, the extra feedback would make you more consistent, not less. That's one of the main reasons why DS4 players are at a big disadvantage vs Wheel players on Gran Turismo Sport, since you have to rely on visual cues for most feedback about how your car is behaving when playing on a controller.
In what sense? The fastest people in racing games are often on controller. Force feedback is great for.. force feedback. It doesn't necessarily change your ability to know what is happening. Note that that's on wheels, not on PEDALS. How SHOULD the pedal depress differently when you go over a bump at 100mph vs when you hit water at 55mph?

The feedback mechanism is about the quality of the rumble. You can intuit the difference when you go into water vs when you hit gravel, not because the rumble inherently means anything, but because you're trained to associate that with the specific type of surface you're on. I could see something cool with that with the triggers quickly locking up when you hit water really suddenly, then loosening up. Not because it's true to life, but because it's very noticeable. That's really not the same role as force feedback.

(And if they mean it in the other way, where pedals feel different based on which car you're in, which WOULD be realistic... phew. I imagine some people will love it for the realism, I imagine many will find it annoying to have to dial it in again for every race.)
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,813
Days Gone's touchpad use was actually great though. You could swipe 4 different directions to bring up different screens. I wish that was standard in a lot of games.
Yeah, I liked this in Ghost of Tsushima as well. While functionality was different vs. Days Gone, it was still really intuitive and much better than trying to press the Options button to bring up a menu for those things.
 

MadMike

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,433
I'm going to wait to try it myself. The rumble triggers on Xbox were rarely used, and were annoying at best in most of the games that used it. HD Rumble turned out to be nothing more than slightly better rumble. I expect minimal use in third-party games after the first year or two, just like all of these gimmicks.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,995
That Sony material that talks about how easy it is to transform a soundwave into haptic feedback makes me thing that at least this feature will be present in most games throughout the gen. I'm not sure about the adaptive triggers though, because multiplayer games don't seem fit for this kind of mechanic, specially shooters. I'm okay with that, I hate rumble but I love haptics, specially iPhone haptics and I believe DualSense's will be even better.

I hope Bungie will introduce cool haptics for supers and abilities.
Yes, this is what I was talking about. Thanks for the clues, lol

www.pushsquare.com

PS5 Can Generate Haptic Feedback from Sound Effects

Feel what you hear

www.resetera.com

PS5 allows for easier haptics implementation by generating vibrations from game sound effects

Source: https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/activities/Tech2020/pdf/Sonys_Technology_2020_E.pdf Jam my adaptive triggers if old.

Edit: aaww damn. Beaten, lol
 
Last edited:

Ninja_Hawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
915
I want my games to evolve and I want developer creativity to be inspired by new technologies, so I hope we continue to see cool changes.
 
OP
OP
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,580
In what sense? The fastest people in racing games are often on controller. Force feedback is great for.. force feedback. It doesn't necessarily change your ability to know what is happening. Note that that's on wheels, not on PEDALS.
The vast, vast majority of GTS pro players play on wheels; there being a few exceptions doesn't make them the rule. The PS5 haptics are also not only the triggers, things like the difference in terrain or when you're starting to go off the track is felt through the haptic feedback.
The feedback mechanism is about the quality of the rumble. You can intuit the difference when you go into water vs when you hit gravel, not because the rumble inherently means anything, but because you're trained to associate that with the specific type of surface you're on. I could see something cool with that with the triggers quickly locking up when you hit water really suddenly, then loosening up. Not because it's true to life, but because it's very noticeable. That's really not the same role as force feedback.
Yes, that's... the whole point of feedback, that's what I'm saying. It's extra information that's now also conveyed through the controller instead of missing out on it if you don't have a wheel.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
The vast, vast majority of GTS pro players play on wheels; there being a few exceptions doesn't make them the rule. The PS5 haptics are also not only the triggers, things like the difference in terrain or when you're starting to go off the track is felt through the haptic feedback.

Yes, that's... the whole point of feedback, that's what I'm saying. It's extra information that's now also conveyed through the controller instead of missing out on it if you don't have a wheel.
Eh, I feel like we're sidestepping the main points. Yes, force feedback is great if you're looking for force feedback. But the fastest people in EVERY racing game are often on controller. Lots of pros are on wheels (DUH) - especially so in a game like GT Sport that fetishizes realism and even promotes a path to qualifying in real life, but that doesn't mean they have some insurmountable innate advantage. Wheels are better at some things, controller tends to be better at some other things. The main differences DO NOT fundamentally come down to force feedback. It's a significant one, but I don't think anyone would say that was the primary difference.

And again, that's for the WHEEL, not the pedals! Force feedback in the wheels makes perfect sense. It's supposed to be an analog for what you'd feel steering a real car. That's not what adaptive triggers are going to be doing in this game. What are they an analog for? ABS locking up your brakes? Your accelerator turning pointlessly when you hydroplane? These would be awesome uses for immersion, much like force feedback, but they don't necessarily make one a better driver. And adaptive triggers don't even do that anywhere remotely in the same ballpark as force feedback.

But again, that's just me being unimpressed with that aspect of the idea without the chance to try it out myself. In practice, it may feel very different and be super awesome. In practice, that feeling could last through the lifetime of the title, rather than just being a forgotten a gimmick by the 2nd month. And if that's the case, I will be happy to see more games supporting an awesome technology like this. But at first blush, my mind is neither blown nor am I excited for many of these practical uses for the technology in games over the long term. (Though, clearly, there are some uses that I still think would be awesome to experience.)
 

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,803
Current rumble is so binary in nature - these sound like a nice step forward down that same road but with sooooo much more fine control over the whole process/experience.

I'm hyped to try it out.
 

Deleted member 864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,544
The analog sticks on two of my PS4 controllers are behaving weirdly so I'm even more excited for the DualSense just to have something new and something that works.
 

Ewaan

Member
May 29, 2020
3,578
Motherwell, Scotland
Game developers are creative people. If you give them more ways to express their creativity they're going to use them. The new DuelSense features don't require the player to change the way they play normally to enjoy that experience, like they may have had to with the touch pad.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,506
Ibis Island
Until I actually get one in my hands and feel the difference. I'm not seeing a reason to not just turn off vibration like I usually do.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,329
As an iPhone user, I can tell you that great haptics, combined with software - really make a difference. I am excited about DualSense and I really hope developers embrace this feature.


Until I actually get one in my hands and feel the difference. I'm not seeing a reason to not just turn off vibration like I usually do.

The reason not to turn it off would be if it's really well done and feels great. Why would you assume anything before trying it? By all accounts, this is very much different from "vibration".
 

RROCKMAN

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,824
Now all of the big three is using haptics in their controllers it seems like its here to stay and I am very pleased about that.