The PS3 almost killed AA games and smaller studios for almost a decade.

[Wrexis]

I was inspired by this thread to think back on the PS3 era.

If you remember the PS2 era, you'll may remember the sheer amount of games that the console had.
I distinctly remember playing quirky off-beat games as much as AAA games, titles like Mister Mosquito, Shadow of Memories to name a few.

When the PS3 came out, I was sad to see many of these games go away. But over the years we learned the reason why, and yes - arrogant Sony.

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.

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I forgot how much developers hated the PS3 - the article has some interesting quotes.

"The politically incorrect answer is that the PS3 is a huge pain in the ass,"

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the PlayStation 3 is a "waste of everyone's time." "investing in the Cell...gives you no long-term benefits. There's nothing there that you're going to apply to anything else. You're not going to gain anything except a hatred of the architecture they've created. I don't think it's a good solution."

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I was surprised to read on Wikipedia that the PS2 had more than 4400 games, but the PS3 had just 2500 - compared to the Xbox 360's 4000.
There were other factors at play here - the 2008 recession of course - but still, low.

The indie studio flourished during this era - more on 360 than PS3 of course - but AA games in my opinion went away for a long time.

I'm glad Sony has clearly learned their lesson, but it's sad that a decade of gaming was affected.

Did you notice the difference going from PS2 to PS3?

 

[spam musubi]

I'd say the studios dying off is less the PS3 and more the transition to HD. The Xbox 360 was concurrent and plenty popular and had many games as you demonstrate.

 

[H-I-M]

I mean I know that Sony is influential, but not THAT much.
We still had the Wii and the 360 selling millions and millions to potential new customers for AA and smaller studios.

 

[Normal]

It is a shame that both Nintendo and Microsoft skipped that generation leaving developers only to develop games for the PS3.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

where is the direct connection between the PS3 and the AA gaming market tho, seems more like you just have an axe to grind. correlation isnt causation. maybe no one bought those niche titles on ps2. maybe the cost of HD in general was much much more important than the PS3. the 360 existed but AA studios didnt choose to focus on it.

 

[Qwark]

Yeah, I don't really get how this is the PS3's fault, there were other systems that AA games could go to (and did to some extent).

I agree that it was more the move to HD in general that was painful for many.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Did you notice the difference going from PS2 to PS3?

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I think I most noticed when it came to the performance inbalance between the PS3 and 360. So many games launched on PS3 with incredible performance issues. For a while, it was like every game on PS3 felt like it was barely running. Like skin stretched over complicated skeleton. I didn't get a PS3 until 2012, so I was well in to its life cycle and thankfully had games like Uncharted and the soon-to-be-released Last of Us to demonstrate the power of the system. But the performance issues and late launches in the earlier years of the PS3 made it apparent even as an ordinary consumer that the PS3 "did everything" except play games well.

That said, I don't think this had much to do with AA games.

 

[Andrea_23]

I was inspired by this thread to think back on the PS3 era.

If you remember the PS2 era, you'll may remember the sheer amount of games that the console had.
I distinctly remember playing quirky off-beat games as much as AAA games, titles like Mister Mosquito, Shadow of Memories to name a few.

When the PS3 came out, I was sad to see many of these games go away. But over the years we learned the reason why, and yes - arrogant Sony.


I forgot how much developers hated the PS3 - the article has some interesting quotes.




I was surprised to read on Wikipedia that the PS2 had more than 4400 games, but the PS3 had just 2500 - compared to the Xbox 360's 4000.
There were other factors at play here - the 2008 recession of course - but still, low.

The indie studio flourished during this era - more on 360 than PS3 of course - but AA games in my opinion went away for a long time.

I'm glad Sony has clearly learned their lesson, but it's sad that a decade of gaming was affected.

Did you notice the difference going from PS2 to PS3?

Click to shrink...

Nope.
The (potential) killer was... the HD era, addressed without proper tools.

 

[Izanagi89]

Hmmmm companies chasing Call of Duty almost killed it more than anything else

 

[laziboi]

I'd say the studios dying off is less the PS3 and more the transition to HD. The Xbox 360 was concurrent and plenty popular and had many games as you demonstrate.

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So long as the console is easy to develop for, the transition should be very smooth. The PS3 however, was an over-complicated Nightmare to program for. Is it any wonder why Sony and the others ditched custom PowerPC archetechute for cheaper stock PC-based processors? Platform holders know that consoles need a well balanced game diet, so accommodating smaller teams was vital when developing thr PS4.

 

[Inuhanyou]

for Japan it was combination of PS3 architcture, HD development costs in general and the rise of mobile..along with the rise of AAA console development in the west that put them on the backfoot and desperate to try and ape that for what they thought was relevance

 

[ByWatterson]

Stated differently: The indie scene is stronger now than it ever has been, and Playstation 3 also happened.

 

[Komo]

Hmmmm companies chasing Call of Duty almost killed it more than anything else

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how many rip off halo and cod games did we get like real shit.

Haze? Wiped Free Radical out just like that.

 

[Morrigan]

This seems like a weird mix of correlation and causation going on here.

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

I do believe that the PS3 was a factor in that, or a catalyst together with the jump to HD. And yes I do miss those quirky games and AA gems. Hopefully with the ps5 and xsx, the power will allow devs to so all kinds of things without worrying too much about optimization.

 

[laziboi]

Nope, the (potential) killer was... the HD era addressed without proper tools.

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This too. Not having engines and development tools ideal for HD games killed a lot of studios. But the PS3 and its hardware certainly weren't helping.

 

[Dranakin]

Stated differently: The indie scene is stronger now than it ever has been, and Playstation 3 also happened.

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Did you read the OP? They're talking about AA games, while acknowleding that Indies have boomed.

 

[xxracerxx]

This seems like a weird mix of correlation and causation going on here.

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This is my take away, as well.

 

[Aokiji]

that is quite some take

 

[EvilBoris]

I don't think it's quite that simple , the actual complexity of games increased significantly because of the expectation of consumers. Making a smaller game than the big publishers still required a bigger team than than before; meaning it cost more, meaning it had to sell more, but the actual market for these niche titles was smaller than it was.

 

[spam musubi]

Did you read the OP? They're talking about AA games, while acknowleding that Indies have boomed.

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I highly doubt the PS3 is the sole reason for AA games disappearing though. There are a lot of other economic factors that make games like that less profitable as the demand for fidelity increases and the marketplace gets inundated with more titles.

If anything, the massive growth of the gaming audience throughout that gen showed that this type of title was actually pretty niche and the audience for it didn't scale.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Let's be real, one of the major factors in the faceplant last generation was Microsoft moneyhatting a bunch of Japanese games that should've gone to PS3, causing the Japanese fanbases FOR those games to completely abandon them, and forcing the studios to retreat into the DS and 3DS to recoup the losses they sustained supporting a console that did not support them back and ignoring the console people actually wanted to get those games on.

The PS3 was hard to develop for for sure, but it felt like a lot of studios OUTRIGHT AVOIDED releasing anything on it until the year FF13 came out and then thing started to reverse. By that point, the damage was already catastrophic and smaller studios had completely transitioned to making 3DS games to avoid HD development.

 

[Syril]

I've seen people talk about how much of a pain the PS2 was also, but no one had a choice because it was too popular.

 

[sandboxgod]

Playstation Vita and PS4 made significant strides in this regard (making it easier to develop for).

I remember putting off buying a PS3 til a few months after Demons' Souls released. I had to get the console then. I enjoyed Demons', Uncharted, and then Last Of Us on that platform. Also little side stuff like Little Big Planet

 

[ByWatterson]

Did you read the OP? They're talking about AA games, while acknowleding that Indies have boomed.

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But we're talking about small publishers, and due to proliferation of development tools, indies have taken over the AA space.

AA didn't die, or even shrink. It turned into independent development.

 

[flaxknuckles]

how many rip off halo and cod games did we get like real shit.

Haze? Wiped Pandemic out just like that.

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True. But you mean Free Radical.

 

[AmFreak]

The original AA was killed and it wasn't the PS3, it was a combination of higher dev costs, game series coming out regularly (e.g. CoD), online gaming playing a role and better informed consumers through the internet.

 

[Betty]

The dev's could've just put their games on Xbox 360 though.

But it was more than just ease of development, budgets ballooned, and suddenly it was impossible to keep up with the AAA juggernauts.

At least we have indies.

Even if Sony get arrogant again there's PC, Switch and Xbox to rely on so using Sony as an excuse why AA games aren't being made wont' fly.

 

[ThisIsBlitz21]

Thats why the 360 was a great boon back then. Imagine the PS4 we wouldve gotten if it didnt exist.

 

[NinjaScooter]

This thread is such a ridiculous reach. MS sold 80 million 360s. Nintendo sold 100 million Wii's. The push to AAA and ballooning budgets was more about publishers chasing trends and being ill equipped to do so.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'd argue that AA studios dying off had far more to do with them chasing AAA studios than anything to do with the PS3. I think Midway and THQ are great examples of this. Midway seemingly became convinced that their ticket to success last gen was to start funding big AAA games starring Hollywood actors. So they pumped 30m into Stranglehold starring Chow Yun-fat. They had Wheelman starring Vin Diesel, which cost over 15m. Then you had a game that was canned, Fear & Respect, which was scheduled to star Snoop Dogg with John Singletary being involved with its development.

With THQ you had the colossal disaster that was Homefront. A game that had a budget of 35-50m. It's games like that which ended up sinking these companies. Even if the PS3 were easy to develop for, they were chasing studios, genres and budgets that they simply couldn't keep up with.

 

[MattHeus]

The AAA industry killed the AA industry... During every promotion there are AAA games being sold by $20 dollars or less, there is no way to compete with that.

You are either a really small company that can survive with a relatively small number of copies sold or you are a giant corp that can compete when it comes to production value and marketing budget. Everyone in the middle of the road is either consolidating or dying.

 

[King Kingo]

The AAA industry killed the AA industry... During every promotion there are AAA games being sold by $20 dollars or less, there is no way to compete with that.

You are either a really small company that can survive with a relatively small number of copies sold or you are a giant corp that can compete when it comes to production value and marketing budget. Everyone in the middle of the road is either consolidating or dying.

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The same can be said about the movie industry and cinema. Being in the middle of the road just doesn't work in today's media landscape.

 

[Deleted member 8463]

No? Indie games happened on consoles.

 

[Nooblet]

The false sense of progression out of "unlocking" the console was such a 2000s way of game development. Xbox 360 was relatively straightforward (though still not x86), and it had a progression over the years too. And Xbox had the XBL Arcade lineup helping indie developers, which was great.

I'm glad it's done with now and Sony understood this starting with PS4 when they were told by devs that "You guys never listen". PS4/Xbone were already "unlocked" from the get go, yet we saw a progression in graphical capabilities over the years due to developers coming up with smart techniques that utilised the hardware better allowing them headroom for doing more. So it was all the same, just that devs weren't fighting the hardware anymore.

 

[Faenix1]

Yep, the ps3 killed em. The fact making games people would actually buy is more expensive than ever totally had nothing to do with it.

 

[Deleted member 1003]

This is utterly ridiculous and quite the reaction thread.

 

[zombiejames]

I'd agree if PSN and Live didn't exist. They did.

 

[AlexBasch]

Would Dark Watch from the PS2 enter in that kind of category? Because I was thinking of something like that as well. The game was limited and of course not on par with the best FPS's games, but it had a certain charm that I miss nowadays.

 

[ckareset]

AA died because of HD. But you are right, Sony was full of so much shit that era they didn't help

 

[jiggle]

4000 games on 360
And no double a

 

[MrWindUpBird]

You really trying to blame Sony exclusively for the death of AA games back then? Era has some really knowledgeable people on this site, but then we have...This. Ballooning budgets, HD development being hard for certain devs, the rise of online console gaming and multiplayer shooters causing everyone to chase the same trends constantly, all these factors had more to do with AA games transitioning into the indie space than the PS3 being hard to develop for.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

That generation was shit for a combination of reasons, with PS3 and Sony's arrogance being only a small part of the problem. Mid to late 2000's hit peak bullshit in regards to publishers chasing mass appeal consumers. On the PS3 and Xbox 360 they assumed this was high end FPS or open world games that cost a lot of money to make and failures would often bankrupt a studio. Meanwhile on the Wii you had absolute shit shovel ware selling millions of copies so everyone not willing to chase the expensive 360/PS3 rat rate ended up pushing loads of garbage out the door. Sadly indie scene and digital storefronts were in their infancy so the void for quality B-tier or AA titles was non-existent and in my opinion resulted with a generation that has far and away the most bland and awful selection of games in the history of gaming.

 

[joshcam19]

Damn! Sony is more powerful than I thought. I hope they don't turn their wrath to indie developers or AAA. They may decide to cancel the next generation of consoles all together. This is bad news.

 

[Deleted member 24417]

I was inspired by this thread to think back on the PS3 era.

If you remember the PS2 era, you'll may remember the sheer amount of games that the console had.
I distinctly remember playing quirky off-beat games as much as AAA games, titles like Mister Mosquito, Shadow of Memories to name a few.

When the PS3 came out, I was sad to see many of these games go away. But over the years we learned the reason why, and yes - arrogant Sony.


I forgot how much developers hated the PS3 - the article has some interesting quotes.




I was surprised to read on Wikipedia that the PS2 had more than 4400 games, but the PS3 had just 2500 - compared to the Xbox 360's 4000.
There were other factors at play here - the 2008 recession of course - but still, low.

The indie studio flourished during this era - more on 360 than PS3 of course - but AA games in my opinion went away for a long time.

I'm glad Sony has clearly learned their lesson, but it's sad that a decade of gaming was affected.

Did you notice the difference going from PS2 to PS3?

Click to shrink...

Go fuck yourself arrogant shitty twat

 

[Mad_Rhetoric]

Go fuck yourself arrogant shitty twat

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Lol I think we've got a ps3 fan over here guys.

 

[laziboi]

You are either a really small company that can survive with a relatively small number of copies sold or you are a giant corp that can compete when it comes to production value and marketing budget. Everyone in the middle of the road is either consolidating or dying.

Click to shrink...

That's not quite the case this generation, where we're seeing a resurgence in mid-sized publishers and developers such as THQ Nordic.

 

[tutomos]

OP Mister Mosquito is not AA. I think you really meant quirky games. In that era, you have tons of those games on the DS and PSP.

 

[Deleted member 9035]

It is a shame that both Nintendo and Microsoft skipped that generation leaving developers only to develop games for the PS3.

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Nice ;)

Unfortunately many developers felt similarly about the Wii, that investing in last gen architecture, SD graphics and motion controls wasn't going to give them any benefit past that one console.

 

[Chief Malik]

pretty sure it was the cost and manpower required to compete in a HD era. AA games and AAA games were relatively on par back with each other before that gen and the games were cheaper to Make and required less people. PS2 depending on who you ask was harder to develop for than PS3. Also ubisoft bragged about pricing competitors out of the market earlier this gen.