The producer of Tales of Arise thinks female players might not like the change towards more intimidating monster designs

[Inuhanyou]

The context is that a man thinks that girls don't like fighting scary monsters but boys wouldn't have a problem with that. :)

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He's not basing it off of his own mind, he's basing it off of what a percentage of female players have said historically regarding the series based on their own internal information

Its one thing to argue the guy "thinks" something, its another to say that the data he's using from the userbase to support his conclusion is bad

 

[RM8]

I assume what that member is trying to get at is that there's a genre of games aimed at girls which are called otome games, so "King of Fighters Romance Game" might sound less presumptuous...

except from what I can see, ザキングオブファイターズの乙女ゲーム isn't actually the name of the game, because when I try googling that I just bump into a Famitsu article about キング・オブ・ファイターズ for ガールズ (literally just "King of Fighters for girls", in English, but written in Japanese). So I think the whole thing's kinda moot anyway.

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Yup, they never refer to the game as that. They do that all the time here, one time I went to a tonkatsu restaurant and the dish I wanted to order was "for ladies" for whatever ridiculous reason. I of course ordered it anyway :P

 

[duckroll]

He's not basing it off of his own mind, he's basing it off of what a percentage of female players have said historically regarding the series based on their own internal information

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Sounds like you're being generous in your reading of it when he literally says that it's a mindset they have, rather than referencing any feedback or data. There's no evidence at all that female Tales fans have ever expressed any opinion on scary monsters, and it's not a point anyone has bothered to ask about because the topic has never come up.

"I like cute monsters!" != "I don't like scary monsters."

Lots of people play both Dragon Quest and Dark Souls for example. :P

 

[Foot]

Must....defend.....VIDEO GAME....!!!

 

[Inuhanyou]

Sounds like you're being generous in your reading of it when he literally says that it's a mindset they have, rather than referencing any feedback or data.

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...your probably right. But that's the most generous i can be considering how they have attempted to portray the series based on female trends in the past. It would not be the first time they have adjusted things based on the feedback they have received from users and internal play testers, women in particular. I can recall Xillia 2 in particular being affected because of Milla's popularity with female users. They even reused her design in Berseria as another response to this

 

[Blade24070]

I'm gonna assume he's saying this because female gamers make up the majority of merch buyers for the series and like all of that merch is "cute" based. But still, that's about characters and mascots, not monsters. I mean when I think cute monsters I don't think Tales to begin with.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I'm gonna assume he's saying this because female gamers make up the majority of merch buyers for the series and like all of that merch is "cute" based. But still, that's about characters and mascots, not monsters. I mean when I think cute monsters I don't think Tales to begin with.

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its not as if tales doesnt have cute monsters...but the main point of the paragraph was about their intent to make all designs, from the monsters to the enviorments and the chatacters uniform and consistent to the world of the game..which was why they were having the environmental art for all the areas being done by the same person who did the character designs, rather than multiple artists as per usual

 

[Kayla]

As someone that likes a challenge like sekiro and dark souls fuck this guy. also fuck asbel.

 

[Deleted member 35077]

I mean when I think cute monsters I don't think Tales to begin with.

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Idk, looking at past games monster books and I would check most of them as cute than anything else. Even the ogre is adorable when compared to other RPG series. Only the Dragons are an exception, and not all of them.

 

[L Thammy]

Sounds like you're being generous in your reading of it when he literally says that it's a mindset they have, rather than referencing any feedback or data. There's no evidence at all that female Tales fans have ever expressed any opinion on scary monsters, and it's not a point anyone has bothered to ask about because the topic has never come up.

"I like cute monsters!" != "I don't like scary monsters."

Lots of people play both Dragon Quest and Dark Souls for example. :P

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Hell, if you're going to make that comparison, you don't even have to go that far. Dragon Quest also gives you things like this:

in the same game that introduces:

Having both cute and intimidating things in the same game is hardly new and untested ground.

 

[Doukou]

I only want my enemies to be cute when I destroy them.

 

[Deleted member 35077]

As someone that likes a challenge like sekiro and dark souls fuck this guy. also fuck asbel.

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This has nothing to do with the game's difficulty, but about the change of monsters designs' philosophy as they are moving away from the traditional cute designs to more monstrous designs.

 

[Morrigan]

Yeah I'm gonna have the vapours if I see a scary looking monster... fuck off lol

I guess the assumption is that women prefer to slaughter more cute, innocent looking monsters?

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That's still stupidly sexist.

 

[Izanagi89]

This thread title and OP was so deliberately worded to incite outrage... this isn't even his own views on the matter.

 

[Orion]

That's still stupidly sexist.

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Oh for sure. I wasn't trying to imply that it was any less dumb, I just found it amusing lol.

 

[EarthPainting]

No clue what he's on about about the sense of accomplishment from taking down an intimidating design, but I do feel part of what he's saying. When I first saw the Arise trailer, my initial reaction was that it looked less appealing off the bat. It was immediately clear they were going for an edgier direction, but they didn't go far enough for me to fully buy into it, yet did take it far enough that I noticed the intent. Now it's in that awkward middle zone where I can tell they're not really succeeding at what they set out to do. The combination of the overall palette and lighting, and contrast between the texture detail of the world and characters gives me Star Ocean vibes, which I don't really consider a compliment.

 

[Palette Swap]

Jesus, the C O N T E X T Defense Force in this thread is a fucking embarrassment.

The guy should really learn to shut the fuck up if he's going to spout stupid shit like this, and that's the long and short of it.

 

[Łazy]

Namco Bandai never fails to disappoint.
Curious to see if Harada as producer will change that.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

There's the danger of ignoring the word "some", which changes the entire assertion of the thread title and is essentially accurate. Some male players probably feel the same way just based on the Sekiro threads a while back.

Edited for spelling.

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We both know it being technically accurate is not what he wanted to convey

 

[Harry Potter Obama]

I mean, a huge amount of Tales fans are girls that play it mainly for the male characters rather than the combat. I don't think it's that unreasonable to wonder if that type of fan might not like big scary enemies, though I agree it's a bit of a strange concern.

 

[C_Ali88]

I tend not to care what individuals think.

Like, every line is now something to fight against or to be enraged about. Tedious.

Let him believe it and women who enjoy games with challenge and a sense of accomplishment play the games that give you that.

Other than that do I care if Japan is sexist in ways? No, I don't live in Japan..

Let Japanese women revolt against their men centered cultural view.

I wouldn't get peeved about a female producer saying "Men won't like cutesy games with no immediate gratification" -if that's what she believes, cool!

Every human on Earth has at least one belief that others would not agree with. Are we to really be outraged at every single one? Scared of the societal backlash of being human and prone to ridiculous beliefs and actions? Are we robots now? We all should be and think the same? Have the same morals and beliefs?




Chill out people and carry on! The age of twitter rage and condemnation through social media is a fickle mistress/mantress... (To be inclusive ya know)

 

[ZiZ]

I'm assuming they have marketing data about what designs appeal to which demographics.

If someone said we designed these cute pokemon to appeal to girls, would that be so controversial?

 

[uzipukki]

I'm assuming they have marketing data about what designs appeal to which demographics.

If someone said we designed these cute pokemon to appeal to girls, would that be so controversial?

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[ZiZ]

I'm a guy, and dependening on the game I prefer cuter mascot like characters to freaky abomination like characters. (I wouldn't want a cute zombie in resident evil, but in JRPGs I like slimes, cacuatars... etc)

 

[Arkanim94]

Oh no.

 

[Sanox]

Feels like a unecessarily specific statement to make it about female players but I guess they have some feedback. Tales has a pretty big female player base and this is probably something they noticed from comments or talking with female players at the Tales of Festivals or anywhere else that quite a few of them like the cuter aesthetic of monsters in the series

Nintendo also knows this

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ni...dience-likes-seeing-luigi-as-the-lead.123193/

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Wait, there are actually people in this thread defending this tired old bullshit line of thinking?

...what

 

[Ganondolf]

Wait, there are actually people in this thread defending this tired old bullshit line of thinking?

...what

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From what I can understand (I can't read Japanese) its a mis-translated sentence changing the meaning. From what I can gather they sell a lot of cute merch to female players and they are worried that these players might not like the change (effecting sales of march). like I said I don't read japanese but thats my understanding.

 

[rochellepaws]

Whether it's true or not I find the sentiment worrying in their design philosophy to make the game more gritty and male focused. That's already a crowded space in rpgs and it'd be a shame to lose the unique vibes from Tales.

This especially is not something I want to hear from the producer of a series I love:

In order to maintain and expand the brand from here on out, we need to also attract the attention of young players. That being said, we are challenging ourselves to present something that dares to step back from the traditional conventions of the series in order to attract more players.

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[TinfoilHatsROn]

Feels like a unecessarily specific to make it about female players but I guess they have some feedback. Tales has a pretty big female player base and this is probably something they noticed from comments or talking with female players at the Tales of Festivals or anywhere else that quite a few of them like the cuter aesthetic of monsters in the series

Nintendo also knows this

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ni...dience-likes-seeing-luigi-as-the-lead.123193/

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Christ I fucking knew when that thread popped up that it would used as a defense for this. As if a preference for a certain character is remotely close to this. Come on, it's pretty different. One's a character poll and the other is an apparent fundamental gameplay design.

 

[Sanox]

Christ I fucking knew when that thread popped up that it would used as a defense for this. As if a preference for a certain character is remotely close to this.

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Defending? I simply posted how I think they possibly came to that conclusion, how is that defending.

I even said its unecessearily specific as changing the monster designs too much could hurt the overall asethetic of the series which some or even many fans of the series regardless of gender might not like

 

[TinfoilHatsROn]

Defending? I simply posted how I think they possibly came to that conclusion, how is that defending.

I even said its unecessearily specific as changing the monster designs too much could hurt the overall asethetic of the series which some or even many fans of the series regardless of gender might not like

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Fair enough then. It just felt like a defense when you bring up a completely different developer doing what amounts to a joke character poll as an interpretation for some fans of the series, who happen to women, wanting a certain type of gameplay change. I mean someone in that thread certainly did so.

 

[Dr. Mario]

I took it to mean that they want to make more horror looking enemies but are aware that by doing so risk alienating some demographics, most notably female gamers. I don't think it's that weird of a statement, as long as it's meant to be very generic. No if you're a woman you are not predetermined to hate horror, just that in general women like it less. It's all normal distributions. It's not outlandish to say boys are generally more attracted to jingoistic military shooters either. There's quite a bit of player demographics research regarding visual preferences.

 

[Dphex]

now that´s a bullshit statement...what year are they living in, 1988?

 

[MasterOfMagnet]

Wait, there are actually people in this thread defending this tired old bullshit line of thinking?

...what

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Its often because people misread what the fuck is being said and jump to be righteously incensed. A lot of people in the Yoshi-P thread about transgender acceptance also leap at some perceived negativity to transgenders because he was being blunt about how places in Asia are still horrible and not all accepting to trans people (although it was more contained in that thread because the translation wasn't shit)

 

[tiebreaker]

I guess this is about monszer design?
Tales always have difficulty setting afaik.

 

[Onix555]

Is this game going to be a massive step down from Berseria in every aspect outside of Graphics?

Spoiler

In all seriousness though, this is some major dumbassery. I'm not even sure how you come to this conclusion.

 

[Resiverence]

I think the some in the statement is very important because it shows he doesn't generally think they would dislike it, more that just the certain subsection that likes the designs for that would. The title definitely makes it seem much worse lmao.

 

[PKrockin]

The article linked in the OP was edited. "Update 06/14/19 at 2:20 a.m.: Updated the line regarding enemy designs for better context." Now it says:

• We're upping the intimidation of enemy designs. This comes from the idea that "you should get a greater feeling of accomplishment from defeating an enemy." While there is also the idea that some female players might not like it if we make the enemies too scary, it is nevertheless important for RPG battles to evoke a sense of accomplishment when defeating an enemy.

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Time to update the OP. The original translation was vague and left the wrong impression. He was saying he worries about some female players not liking the different enemy design.

 

[Reverse Giraffe]

Gross.
I thought the Tales series was becoming a more progressive one, what with gay and female lead characters.

 

[Akira86]

Well what do they mean by intimidating? That's so vague. Like a scary monster, or a monster that is not necessarily scary but is on your ass, out of the door, like the goddamn Capra Demon? Either one could be too annoying to different people. They have to figure out the balance for their target market. If they don't know, instead of guessing it would be smart to ask, of course.

 

[RadicalDreamer]

DON'T BASE MY ACCOMPLISHMENTS ON THE SCARINESS OF THE MONSTERS!

If a game involves taking down monsters, they are going down regardless of how cute or horrifying they are. That's the duty of a hero/hunter/gamer girl!

 

[Foot]

The article linked in the OP was edited. "Update 06/14/19 at 2:20 a.m.: Updated the line regarding enemy designs for better context." Now it says:



Time to update the OP. The original translation was vague and left the wrong impression. He was saying he worries about some female players not liking the different enemy design.

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Phew! Sexism is over.

 

[PKrockin]

Phew! Sexism is over.

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Exactly, thanks for very accurately rephrasing what I said.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

The article linked in the OP was edited. "Update 06/14/19 at 2:20 a.m.: Updated the line regarding enemy designs for better context." Now it says:



Time to update the OP. The original translation was vague and left the wrong impression. He was saying he worries about some female players not liking the different enemy design.

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that changes nothing

it's still a highly sexist sentiment

 

[Resiverence]

that changes nothing

it's still a highly sexist sentiment

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It literally does though (in terms of how the statement is perceived), the wording being more clear is important. Why the reluctance to change it when it is a clearer statement?

 

[daybreak]

that changes nothing

it's still a highly sexist sentiment

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He didn't say it changed anything, he said the OP needs to be updated since it's incorrect and the majority of readers who come to this thread won't see the update otherwise, and leave with the wrong information.

And, also, it does change the meaning of the statement quite a bit.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

i mean i can change it, but it's literally saying the same thing with different words

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

Crazy that more than 50% of the world's population is female, but people in creative positions have apparently never interacted with one in their entire professional career.

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Well the people going into nerdy industries aren't really the bad boys and cool guys of their peers. Then, when they arrive in those positions, they cater to the same crowd of less popular boys and the cycle continues. That's why representation is important, even if a game is made by team of only guys, having a cool female lead can encourage more women to get into gaming and game making.

EDIT: I am pretty sure that the guy is talking about visual design and anecdotally I enjoy gross, ripped-apart faces in Resident Evil 2 more than my wife or my sister, while they enjoy cute design more than me. That is why Made in Abyss is so awesome, it tosses both into a pot.

Double Whammy Edit: I still think it is generalizing. Liking one thing (cute stuff) does not mean that one can't enjoy creepy monsters. My sister again: she loves cutesy stuff, but she also binge read the entirety of Berserk which is filled why grotesque and disgusting monsters.

Triple double decker EDIT: I hope the enemies are not just frightening due to visual design but also due to mechanics, otherwise we have something like the Gaping Demon from Dark Souls 1.

 

[Bishop89]