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The Poké-Leaks Continue: Gen 2 source codes reveal more beta Pokemon designs
- Thread starter Camjo-Z
- Start date
is this early Komala?
this looks like Minccino maybe?
and this like Cherrim?
I mean, I'm totally reaching, but it does seem that they kinda go back and revisit some of the scrapped monsters in later generations
I'm in love with this
and I still need this in my life
this looks like Minccino maybe?
and this like Cherrim?
I mean, I'm totally reaching, but it does seem that they kinda go back and revisit some of the scrapped monsters in later generations
I'm in love with this
and I still need this in my life
Yeah I had it in a tab already but got things mixed up and didn't see it properly. Thanks. :P
Game Freak also had to consider the overall balance of the game, they had to think of what types are needed and where to place them. Pokémon from Kanto were also found in Johto, so the new ones had to be balanced around them too. I mean, I really don't like how most of the Dark types and the only new Ghost type are Kanto only, but the Ghost type Gym right after the Normal type Gym teaches the player (if they didn't already have a Gastly) that some moves just don't work, you're also unlikely to have any decent Ghost, Dark, or Psychic moves. So Game Freak has to think about how certain Pokémon's availability effects how the player approaches the game. It might hard to do that if they just put too many Pokémon in a single area.
Snubbull's already in too, incidentally.
I don't see as much a resemblance as I do Puddi
Which is why I think if it was just replaced by something, it was this. Similar colors, face, tail, ears, eyes....some of that could be blamed on similar artists but like there is so much that lines up with the two.
Ah, I didn't see that. Oh well, I tried.
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OP
OP
I could be totally wrong here, but I wonder if this thing was the scrapped concept based on Dolly the cloned sheep that Masuda and Sugimori mentioned in an interview once? It looks a little like an early Mareep/Flaaffy with the similar head and tail shapes, but the angry eyes and unnatural bulging veins suggest a creature that's been experimented on. I'd even venture to say the headband thing it's wearing could be a bunch of little embryos.
It screams psychic type to me. Gigantic experimental superbrain.
I could be totally wrong here, but I wonder if this thing was the scrapped concept based on Dolly the cloned sheep that Masuda and Sugimori mentioned in an interview once? It looks a little like an early Mareep/Flaaffy with the similar head and tail shapes, but the angry eyes and unnatural bulging veins suggest a creature that's been experimented on. I'd even venture to say the headband thing it's wearing could be a bunch of little embryos.
INCREDIBLE!!!!!! Look at what looks to be an alternate Paras evolution. It grew out of the mushroom!
Look at that concept for a Noctowl! That is a cool looking bird! I love Noctowls design but I would love that thing as a new Pokemon all together or a split evolution. Heck a 3rd stage!
Look at that concept for a Noctowl! That is a cool looking bird! I love Noctowls design but I would love that thing as a new Pokemon all together or a split evolution. Heck a 3rd stage!
Ohhhh! I should have known!
Pokemon designs really get me excited. It's such a shame the last few games have steadily been pushing me away as a fan. Still as new generations release I'll always look to these old designs to see if anything was ever picked up and carried into the future.
BRUH
The question is: are those or are they not cheek pouches?
It does seem pretty weird...the tail thing too
I could be totally wrong here, but I wonder if this thing was the scrapped concept based on Dolly the cloned sheep that Masuda and Sugimori mentioned in an interview once? It looks a little like an early Mareep/Flaaffy with the similar head and tail shapes, but the angry eyes and unnatural bulging veins suggest a creature that's been experimented on. I'd even venture to say the headband thing it's wearing could be a bunch of little embryos.
especially from the back, does seem suspiciously similar to Mareep's
If the numbering is any indication of similar dev time (which, i fullyadmit, is a big "if") then it was also put in the game around the same time as mareep (it's 2 spaces later). And well before Flaaffy & Ampharos, for that matter. It's a pretty weird design t,hough, it looks more like a lizard regardless of whatever else is going on so this might just be a case of similar design work like all the similar kaijus in gen 1
So, here's something interesting:
This is actually listed after Farfetch'd, and indeed its named Madame and presumably has Madame's footprint (though I believe the height and weight are of the mon pictured,) but the dex entry... is not about Madame. I have always wanted to see a Madame dex entry to find out whether or not it is indeed themed after the madame at a brothel (which I believe it is.) Nevertheless, here's this dex entry.
Madame
"Mizuuo" Pokemon (Cannibal fish?)
When on land, it secretes slimy, poisonous mucous membranes.
What in the
EDIT: If anyone wants me to translate some dex entries, just tell me which ones
This is actually listed after Farfetch'd, and indeed its named Madame and presumably has Madame's footprint (though I believe the height and weight are of the mon pictured,) but the dex entry... is not about Madame. I have always wanted to see a Madame dex entry to find out whether or not it is indeed themed after the madame at a brothel (which I believe it is.) Nevertheless, here's this dex entry.
Madame
"Mizuuo" Pokemon (Cannibal fish?)
When on land, it secretes slimy, poisonous mucous membranes.
What in the
EDIT: If anyone wants me to translate some dex entries, just tell me which ones
I redid the snowbunny/proto-pika?'s palette using the grass palette from yellow:
I also did a Yellow version palette for every sprite from the original GS beta leak:
I also did a Yellow version palette for every sprite from the original GS beta leak:
Whoa, the Oddish line is my personal nostalgic favorite, so it's super interesting to see some new concept art for them. It looks like a Gloom is ... dying? And pooping??? Looolwtf
They do say the worse a Gloom smells, the more beautiful Bellossom will be upon evolving IIRC. :P
That's not too different from its final entry (Silver)So, here's something interesting:
This is actually listed after Farfetch'd, and indeed its named Madame and presumably has Madame's footprint (though I believe the height and weight are of the mon pictured,) but the dex entry... is not about Madame. I have always wanted to see a Madame dex entry to find out whether or not it is indeed themed after the madame at a brothel (which I believe it is.) Nevertheless, here's this dex entry.
Madame
"Mizuuo" Pokemon (Cannibal fish?)
When on land, it secretes slimy, poisonous mucous membranes.
What in the
EDIT: If anyone wants me to translate some dex entries, just tell me which ones
Seems like maybe a word just got lost, like "it secretes FROM ITS slimy...." or some such.
Guess name hadn't been decided yet so they didnt get around to changing the name
I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that it's the same dex entry. The Japanese text refers to "action" on the ground, which I just glossed over as "on land" to communicate that it was merely making a distinction between when it's underwater vs. on land and not saying like, "as it WALKS around, its body does this thing." The latter difference is just a localization, I'd think. Difficult to tell the target demo, in English, "secretes a mucous membrane."
Looks like they originally wanted to keep Sentret's tail and from its patterns it looks more like a type of weasel than a ferret. Well, I mean, they're all related but you know more of one of those red or brown weasels you see from time to time and not the more distinct bandit ferret makings.
Seems they were pretty happy wit hthe sprites, they stayed mostly similar posing in the final build
I was wrong! Turns out, this was edited for Wooper's final Japanese Silver dex entry. The beta explicitly says that it secretes such a membrane while this mon is on land, while the dex entry r_n shared is a perfect translation of the final build, which states in Japanese that Wooper does indeed cover its body in a slimy, poisonous mucous membrane when it walks around. I find the distinction fascinating.
Also fascinating: Even though the beta Wooper is quadrupedal and seemingly... rounder than Wooper, it has the same height and weight.
And if anyone was wondering, the leaked Gold dex entry for this mon is unchanged from the final build (minus the name ,footprint, and classification.)
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Eventually maybe, but for team legal safety we're not going to be covering it for a while if at all. Also it's just so much that it would take months to write about everything, plus few of us are particularly skilled with code so I think it'd be better to wait for other groups to release their findings.
I was writing a map article about how I thought the unused Johto maps fit together but, well, not really needed anymore now when there's a file in there that just tells you how they connect, huh? Maybe I can write about the maps that appear in their banks and what that might mean for the early region instead someday...
I remember your old theory crafting about that from last year, at a glance, does it seem like you were on the money?
Nintendo has (at least) 30 years worth of game source code in various stages of development... I really wish they'd release stuff like this officially, like in artbooks. We got a taste of this in the Hyrule Historia, and another taste with these stolen sources... But just think how much more there is?
You know I thought Cyndaquil might've been an ice type from the front, since the spikes look so similar to alolan sandslash's icicles but....gotta say....from the back
Cyndaquil reminds me a lot of spinies
So I guess maybe the simpler explanation is they just wanted it emphasize the spiky bristles of the echidna. Who knows maybe it was even a steel type at some point.
Cyndaquil reminds me a lot of spinies
So I guess maybe the simpler explanation is they just wanted it emphasize the spiky bristles of the echidna. Who knows maybe it was even a steel type at some point.
You know I thought Cyndaquil might've been an ice type from the front, since the spikes look so similar to alolan sandslash's icicles but....gotta say....from the back
Cyndaquil reminds me a lot of spinies
So I guess maybe the simpler explanation is they just wanted it emphasize the spiky bristles of the echidna. Who knows maybe it was even a steel type at some point.
I still think ice, if only for the Alolan Sandlash connection, which you said. So many of these designs have been salvaged in a similar way that something so visually similar would be quite the coincidence otherwise. Interesting theory, though.
Yeah, if there had been an art book for Pokemon years ago, we'd have known a lot of this and maybe these releases wouldn't have been as desirable. But there's so much to discover still, that even something like that may not have been enough.
Honestly most of these aren't good and I see why they were cut/drastically changed. Other thoughts:
Leafeon has apparently existed forever
Proto-Dunsparce is actually much better than what we eventually got
why so many birds?
That fire starter is literally a mash up of Pikachu and Charmander
The water starter seems like a proto-Lapras almost?
Raikou is Super Saiyan Dog.
That Wobbafett LMAO
Leafeon has apparently existed forever
Proto-Dunsparce is actually much better than what we eventually got
why so many birds?
That fire starter is literally a mash up of Pikachu and Charmander
The water starter seems like a proto-Lapras almost?
Raikou is Super Saiyan Dog.
That Wobbafett LMAO
I am really curious if there might be some names tied to these old sprites buried somewhere, maybe in old emails or wayward code mentions or something. A name would probably poitn us in a direction if they wanted some convoluted ice spike pun
For Spaceworld? That's a different region but there appear to be later versions of those maps in there with some slight edits as well. I was right about using a boat at some point (there is a map of a port now) but what I didn't expect was them adding a train to West, Newtype and (unfortunately) Kanto. Blue also just appears to be their name for Red in this game for whatever reason instead of the female character, his house is called as such. The route designations also go completely off the rails towards the end so there's no way anybody could have guessed that.
Funniest thing I found was that the idea of Spaceworld Kanto lives on in an earlier version of Final Kanto: an earlier Celadon contains Route 7, Celadon, and Route 16, an earlier Fuchsia contains Fuchsia and Route 18, an earlier Vemilion contains Route 6 and Vermilion, and Route 24 and 25 were merged into one map. Thankfully they found enough space to expand them enough, even if they were a bit smaller than Gen 1.
Completely understandable. I deeply apreciate the effort you guys made these past few years. The minute analysys of every aspect, from move name lists to fixing glitched maps and even reconstructing details of the blurriest, tiniest pictures...
I think I've spent more time reading, re-reading and consulting your site for reference than I'd like to admit. Terrific digital archeological work. The folks from pret as well, who I follow back from the skeetendo forums lol.
haha that's really interesting. Iwata really coming through saving Kanto
Figured I'd take a crack at my favourite gen 2 evo line.
Undecided03
Angler Pokemon
Height 0.5m
Weight 12.0kg
No.171
On the dark ocean floor, the blinking lights on its feelers provide its only means of communication.
Ignoring the missing name and footprint, Chinchou's leaked silver dex entry is a little different from the final version -- it seems they would give it an edit for grammar before release, and shift the verb "allows (it to)" to "does". Curious. Classification, height, and weight are all the same as the final build, as is the body text of the leaked Gold dex entry. Its dex number would ultimately decrease by one to 170.
Tsubomitto
Light Pokemon
Height 1.2m
Weight 22.5kg
No.193
The light emitted by Lanturn (alternately: "its lantern") is so glaring that it can reach the water's surface from a depth of 5000 meters.
Lanturn's dex entry, like Wooper's, seems to have been laid overtop of a cut Pokemon -- in this case, Tsubomitto, the cut "Bellossom" of the Bellsprout line. Consequently, it adopts its dex number (193) and name. It has no footprint in the final build, which tells me that this footprint is Tsubomitto's, and confirms my theory that the footprint in Wooper's was in fact Madame's. The classification, height, and weight here are all identical to the final build, though the body text uses a different adjective to describe the light it emits when comparing this to the retail copy of Gold.. The final version simply uses bright, while this uses glaring. This might have been done to create distinction between this and the Silver entry, which begins with that very adjective. The Silver entry (ignoring the Tsubomitto anomalies) is identical to the final build. Lastly, it's interesting to me that Chinchou's name had yet to be decided, while Lanturn's presumably hadn't. I say presumably because Lanturn's Japanese name is not the way that "lantern" is typically approximated in Japanese. I really wonder why the accepted fact among fans is that Lanturn's Japanese name is simply "Lantern" then, but I assume they know something I don't, so I've made room for either translation. Also weird that, if its name was indeed decided, it still carries Tsubomitto's name here. Makes me wonder if this aspect of the game wasn't in the middle of being worked on when this build was captured.
Undecided03
Angler Pokemon
Height 0.5m
Weight 12.0kg
No.171
On the dark ocean floor, the blinking lights on its feelers provide its only means of communication.
Ignoring the missing name and footprint, Chinchou's leaked silver dex entry is a little different from the final version -- it seems they would give it an edit for grammar before release, and shift the verb "allows (it to)" to "does". Curious. Classification, height, and weight are all the same as the final build, as is the body text of the leaked Gold dex entry. Its dex number would ultimately decrease by one to 170.
Tsubomitto
Light Pokemon
Height 1.2m
Weight 22.5kg
No.193
The light emitted by Lanturn (alternately: "its lantern") is so glaring that it can reach the water's surface from a depth of 5000 meters.
Lanturn's dex entry, like Wooper's, seems to have been laid overtop of a cut Pokemon -- in this case, Tsubomitto, the cut "Bellossom" of the Bellsprout line. Consequently, it adopts its dex number (193) and name. It has no footprint in the final build, which tells me that this footprint is Tsubomitto's, and confirms my theory that the footprint in Wooper's was in fact Madame's. The classification, height, and weight here are all identical to the final build, though the body text uses a different adjective to describe the light it emits when comparing this to the retail copy of Gold.. The final version simply uses bright, while this uses glaring. This might have been done to create distinction between this and the Silver entry, which begins with that very adjective. The Silver entry (ignoring the Tsubomitto anomalies) is identical to the final build. Lastly, it's interesting to me that Chinchou's name had yet to be decided, while Lanturn's presumably hadn't. I say presumably because Lanturn's Japanese name is not the way that "lantern" is typically approximated in Japanese. I really wonder why the accepted fact among fans is that Lanturn's Japanese name is simply "Lantern" then, but I assume they know something I don't, so I've made room for either translation. Also weird that, if its name was indeed decided, it still carries Tsubomitto's name here. Makes me wonder if this aspect of the game wasn't in the middle of being worked on when this build was captured.
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Just btw, those two in particular were already leaked last year. There's a lot of writeups on Spaceworld '97 and the spritesheets.
There's a lot of stuff to dive into with the source code leak.
I mean they confirmed this is exactly what they do at times. Plus the Spaceworld '97 leak from last year definitely shows they did (Leafeon, Mime Jr, Lickitung + Tangela evos, etc)
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of these early drafts were just sort of them doodling concepts, they have talked about how they drew a lot of the gen 1 Pokemon as sprites first then drew the art afterwards.
Final build saves work with it.
I love that there's literal excel documents with them drawing maps in there too.
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