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The Phobic Crimes of Katsura Hashino (Director/Producer, ATLUS)
- Thread starter ASaiyan
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Atlus clearly doesn't give two fucks when you factor in how long it's been going on. I wouldn't be against banning all Atlus discussion from this place. They choose to belittle and ridicule the LGBTQ+ community, so why should we give them a platform where they're transphobic and homophobic games are talked about and in a sense promoted.
I was absolutely devastated to hear about the Catherine stuff last night, it really did a number on me mentally, and the fact that people can turn a blind eye to Atlus because they happen to like some of their games is quite frankly unbelievably disgusting, and those of you that fall in that category should be ashamed of yourselves.
I was absolutely devastated to hear about the Catherine stuff last night, it really did a number on me mentally, and the fact that people can turn a blind eye to Atlus because they happen to like some of their games is quite frankly unbelievably disgusting, and those of you that fall in that category should be ashamed of yourselves.
Being effeminate isn't just a problem gay men face, what am I reading?
Hashino directed the original, Kazuyuki Yamai, current SMT director, directed the Maniax edition.
EDIT: Actually I'm not even sure if he's directing V, but he definitely directed Maniax and IV.
While I totally get the desire to just ban their games from discussion I think that would probably do more harm than good. Allowing discussion has led to this thread and the previous Catherine Full Body thread to exist and draw more attention to these issues rather than them just being ignored.
I mean, its an entire arc of having Ann strip naked for some guy's photo shoot and the guys on the team basically forcing her to do it despite her clearly being uncomfortable with it, immediately after that whole sexual assault thing. Its not even small or hidden in the game.
Do you not understand that the issue we're putting forward is that the game treats Kanji not being gay as a good thing? I'm simplifying it a lot here.
Be careful what you wish for lol.
But all things considered, Hashino is like 30 years removed from high school. He's out of touch. Maybe a fantasy world is where he belongs.
Like I said I'm cautiously optimist.
If it wasn't apparent I love Persona and while I'm not always the most affected by some problematic aspects I absolutely want to see the portrayal of LGBT people improve.
No, its a problem made by homophobic straight people that, while it affects other straight people, is rooted in sexism and homophobia, and to have a straight character be given a gay character's problems is both self victimizing and cowardly as a writer and also disrespectful and exploitative of gay people
Having fallen in love with Persona 5 over the past two months in spite of its problematic elements, this is all disappointing beyond words. I was more than ready to tackle 3 and 4 after wrapping it up, but I don't know how I could sit through any of that today (4 is Y I K E S).
Thanks for the write-up. Saddening, but necessary. :(
Thanks for the write-up. Saddening, but necessary. :(
Great OP, but for what it's worth it might be worth tweaking this bit slightly
If you play as the female MC in P3P you can befriend characters regardless of gender, and you aren't forced into a romantic relationship with the boys when you progress theirs forward. It's baffling that they didn't take the opportunity to go back and fix the male MC.
Also, in the FeMC route, the section of the game where Operation Babe Hunt takes place features a scene which actively shows Akihiko being fine with Aigis potentially being gay, when he misunderstands her attachment to the FeMC. He seriously just shrugs it off and accepts it.
I think the FeMC route was taken over by a completely different writer???? The grossest part that I'm aware of is the ability to romance Ken, which is very yikes by itself
With the inclusion of the female MC in PQ2, and the main character in Persona 3 Dancing given platonic friendships with the female party members, I kiiinda hope a remake happens just to purge the Hashino-ness.
If you play as the female MC in P3P you can befriend characters regardless of gender, and you aren't forced into a romantic relationship with the boys when you progress theirs forward. It's baffling that they didn't take the opportunity to go back and fix the male MC.
Also, in the FeMC route, the section of the game where Operation Babe Hunt takes place features a scene which actively shows Akihiko being fine with Aigis potentially being gay, when he misunderstands her attachment to the FeMC. He seriously just shrugs it off and accepts it.
I think the FeMC route was taken over by a completely different writer???? The grossest part that I'm aware of is the ability to romance Ken, which is very yikes by itself
With the inclusion of the female MC in PQ2, and the main character in Persona 3 Dancing given platonic friendships with the female party members, I kiiinda hope a remake happens just to purge the Hashino-ness.
Holy shit. What a teoublesome, damaged piece of shit this guy is.
I don't know Hashino as a person, but i'm gonna say this. When folks say shit like that, some really huge red flags pop up for me... for a lot of things.
Sufficed to say, its not a great thing to say, nor is it true
I mean, Yosuke treats him that way, but Yosuke is meant to be an awful piece of shit.
I haven't played the game since the Vita re-release, so you'll have to refresh my memory if other characters go out of their way to gay bash him.
Fair enough.
Great thread. Shocking stuff.
Only ever played the original Catherine but this is indeed horrible.
Only ever played the original Catherine but this is indeed horrible.
No one should be doxxed.
But if he never worked on another game, I wouldn't shed any tears.
The problem is that the game doesn't intend Yosuke's homophobia to be a bad thing. It's supposed to be a funny quirk.
The camp scene explicitly has the player partake in being scared of Kanji. And there are no options whatsoever to call Yosuke out. WHich shows they have no concept of it being something players might find objectionable from a viewing standpoint
I guess I can see that, but I firmly believe Yosuke is the worst character in the franchise.
The game goes out of its way to frame him as sad, pathetic, weak and small. That's how I view him.
That's true, but Yu is a pervert himself. The anime further solidifies this for me. Both of them are childish idiots, Yu just doesn't say dumb things as much.
Lol, like that's going to happen, but so what that he gets fired? This kind of shit should be a fireable offense.
WHen your supposed to be a self insert blank slate with a variety of optional dialogue choices, that only proves the writers wanting to instill their own preconceived notions onto the player character, which is the problem
You never once get to tell yosuke to fuck off when he's being a homophobic piece of shit.
How is that not endorsing yosuke's views?
How on earth have people forgotten the worst part of Persona 5.
How you confront rapist child abusers in one of the side quests.
But do they go to prison? Oh no no no. After giving them a nice change of heart and they promise not to do it again, waltzing back they go.
How you confront rapist child abusers in one of the side quests.
But do they go to prison? Oh no no no. After giving them a nice change of heart and they promise not to do it again, waltzing back they go.
I mean given every other person who's heart you steal straight up confesses in real life, I think it's safe to assume that the same would happen in the case of side quest villains tbh. There's stuff worth criticizing in P5, but I'm not sure this part is
They're basically the same, but Ryuji is dumber and poorer.
High school kids act like high school kids, what do you want me to say? I didn't know any kids like that back in my day in high school. You either defended yourself or took the abuse. Yosuke is Yu's first and best friend. Of course he's going to take the side of his friend over what's actually right, that's what high schoolers act like. I wasn't expecting him to be a bastion of morality, especially when he's characterized as an asshole in media that isn't the games.
I admit both characters are written poorly when compared to the others, though. It's likely due to the evidence already shared in this thread, Hashino lives in his own world. I'm not about to defend his words. He needs to do better and write characters more respectfully, which I've already said.
One of the things I took away from the OP is that this guy has really liked to include in his games characters who present as one gender and then tell the players that they are "actually" something other than that. It's kind of a bizarre to keep featuring this same idea repeatedly, so I guess this perhaps suggests a strong phobia is driving it.
If Katsura Hashino has left P-Studio, does that mean we may get a more queer-friendly Persona 6? Or does he have a larger influence over Atlus games?
If Katsura Hashino has left P-Studio, does that mean we may get a more queer-friendly Persona 6? Or does he have a larger influence over Atlus games?
The game literally makes you be the bastion of morality. Your whole mission is to uncover the truth.
It's something that wouldn't be out of place in an Incel subreddit.
... Nah. You're conflating finding the true murderer with being an unflinching arbiter of good.
Hell, they think about and do fucked up shit all throughout the narrative. They were absolutely willing to 86 Namatame's ass.
And if you do you don't get the true ending.
You literally fight a goddess to uncover the truth. You're literally uncovering all of societies lies and their aversion to the truth lol. You, a high school kid, apparently have that power.
Trying to roleplay Joker as a gay dude in P5 was fucking impossible with how in-your-face heteronormative norms are. You're treated like an idiot if you're not dating a girl come Valentine's Day, and you're given the option to hang out with Ryuji to just be bummed that you're not dating women (from what I remember, you can give him chocolate, and it's just shrugged off as sad).
You can date your fucking teacher but not any of the other boys in your party. I pray that someone who isn't a complete hack is chosen to replace Hashino on the Persona series.
You can date your fucking teacher but not any of the other boys in your party. I pray that someone who isn't a complete hack is chosen to replace Hashino on the Persona series.
I kinda wish this didn't hurt so much.
Like I can hear, and have heard, a million different anti gay and anti-trans comments and legislation and attacks and stuff in the news even as recently as a month ago where we basically got a new thing every other day at most. Like, maybe it really is just my gay ass and my never ending depression adding onto things but it feels like all the chaos and news and comments, it blends in at some point. It hurts in its own way that it blends in of course, but it does blend in. This doesn't for me. I never even liked the company or series that much. And I don't know why it even surprises me to hear or see this. But damn it hurts. I don't even get games where I get to feel good about myself or avoid messages about how I should feel ashamed of who I am
Like I can hear, and have heard, a million different anti gay and anti-trans comments and legislation and attacks and stuff in the news even as recently as a month ago where we basically got a new thing every other day at most. Like, maybe it really is just my gay ass and my never ending depression adding onto things but it feels like all the chaos and news and comments, it blends in at some point. It hurts in its own way that it blends in of course, but it does blend in. This doesn't for me. I never even liked the company or series that much. And I don't know why it even surprises me to hear or see this. But damn it hurts. I don't even get games where I get to feel good about myself or avoid messages about how I should feel ashamed of who I am
I hope I'm not missing it in the OP, but what makes us think that this is Hashino's influence only and not a larger issue within Atlus JP/the teams he has led as a whole? I hope it is just him and that with him not on P6, this stuff isn't an issue anymore, but I worry this stuff will stick around even without him
They're still willing to do it even if you don't lol. It just turns out Namatame isn't the real dude. If he was, they would've offed him with no regrets.
Fighting a goddess doesn't mean these characters are morally infallible, I don't know how you came to that conclusion.
Ryuji and Yosuke are basically the same character. The toxic male that everyone tolerates because it's a video game and not real life.
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