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Arc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,537
ROTS is fun as hell, unlike the other two prequels the story is actually progressing at a rapid rate, and it's grand in scale. It's also the most "Shakespearean" of the SW films, which I like.

The real star of ROTS though
idaily-emperor-palpatine-1200x600.jpg

He brings this movie to amazing heights.

Keep it in /r/prequelmemes. He's good but he's one character in a 2+ hour movie. RotS is a mess. The tone is confusing, the dialogue is painful, I could go on and on.

Look, I get it, people like the memes, but they don't make it a good movie.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
Oh and AOTC is by far the worst.


The only sane way to rank the Star Wars movies:
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. The Last Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. The Force Awakens
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Rogue One
7. Solo
8. Revenge of the Sith
9. The Phantom Menace
10. Attack of the Clones
 
Dec 22, 2017
7,099
Phantom Menace is past-his-prime Lucas unfiltered, surrounded by yes men.

AotC is a self conscious, past-his-prime Lucas, responding to criticism of PM, surrounded by yes men. It's a much, much worse experience. The Yoda fight scene is the absolute dumbest thing in a Star Wars movie ever.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Oh and AOTC is by far the worst.

The only sane way to rank the Star Wars movies:
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. The Last Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. The Force Awakens
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Rogue One
7. Solo
8. Revenge of the Sith
9. The Phantom Menace
10. Attack of the Clones

I choose to believe you accidentally swapped Rogue One and The Last Jedi.
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,952
Btw, you could watch just the last one of the prequels and you would get all of the necessary stuff.
 

Spacejaws

"This guy are sick" of the One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,901
Scotland
Personally, Attack of the Clones is a flat out dreadful movie. It has 1 scene that I enjoy with Obi Wan v Fett and that's it.

But...for me I actually really despise Revenge of the Sith and place it only a little higher than AotC. It just didn't have any redeeming features for me apart from Obi Wan. It's all dreck.

The Phantom Menace felt like an adventure movie imo. It's a bit aimless but the priorites are pretty solid I felt. Protect the queen, escape Naboo, stuck on Tatooine etc all their motives are kinda ground level mundane rather than some grand death weapon or a doomsday clock felt more like Indiana Jones where they just truck along and try to get from point a to b. I do not mind young Anakin as much as old Anakin, the mix of different alien characters and pod racing was pretty damn cool and as much as the Gungans are arguably culturally insensitive the visuals and arrival at their city was great. Also Qui Gon Jin is a great representative of the idealistic picture of an honorable 'Jedi Knight' and Darth Maul was a fantastic mysterious shadowy nemesis that was totally fucking wasted and ruined in the future. The trilogy should have had him entirely and not a revolving door of gradually worse and underdeveloped adverseries.

Plus the ship designs in TPM I don't think was ever really matched in the other prequels. From the Naboo Star Fighter to the Trade Federation Command Ships everything looked so damn cool. Even the Clone Trooper stuff in AotC seemed pretty basic sci-fi military stuff.

Hell I even warmed up to Jar Jar Binks in retrospect I don't think he ruins the movie, just a cheesy comedy character like C3PO who I actually thought was worse in AotC and RotS. C3P0 (along with buddying up with R2D2) is my most hated character of the prequels. Way to go George.
 
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Tomasoares

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,604
1. The Last Jedi
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. A New Hope
4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Solo
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Revenge of the Sith
10. Attack of the Clones
 

ProtomanNeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,190
I have more an appreciation for TPM now than I did at release. I always loved the score, and its probably one Williams' best. But It's a kids movie and meeting individuals who were the perfect age when it was released and seeing their love for it I resisted it and looked at it from that point of view.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
1. The Last Jedi
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. A New Hope
4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Solo
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Revenge of the Sith
10. Attack of the Clones

I dunno why people do these ranking things but... Hmm...

1. The Clone Wars
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. Rogue One
5. Rebels
6. Solo
7. A New Hope
8. The Force Awakens
9. Return of the Jedi
10. The Last Jedi
11. Phantom Menace
12. Attack of the Clones
13. Resistance
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
All the hate for AOTC confuses me. Episode 2+3 have some of the best world building of the whole saga. So many interesting and cool alien species, ships, vehicles and planets.

RotS is Top 3 Star Wars.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
All the hate for AOTC confuses me. Episode 2+3 have some of the best world building of the whole saga. So many interesting and cool alien species, ships, vehicles and planets.

RotS is Top 3 Star Wars.
World building has very little to do with what makes a competently made film. Weak dialogue, poor acting, and haphazard editing do.

You can have all the world building possible and still have a complete mess of a film.

PT world building is fantastic, but AOTC has some of the worst editing I have seen in a major blockbuster.

Having Ben Burtt edit was such a bizarre awful decision. He is a master of sound but had no real experience in film editing going into the PT.
 
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Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Phantom Menace is actually the best movie of the prequel trilogy, mostly by addition from subtraction. It's actually fairly disconnected from the shit shows that are Episodes 2 and 3, still has some pretty great practical effects work, was shot on film, and has the best lightsaber fight of the trilogy.

Attack of the Clones is the worst one by far.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
All the hate for AOTC confuses me. Episode 2+3 have some of the best world building of the whole saga. So many interesting and cool alien species, ships, vehicles and planets.

RotS is Top 3 Star Wars.
Attack of the Clones is a bad movie with poor pacing, a plot that barely makes any sense, the least threatening villain in all of Star Wars (who doesn't even show up on screen until an hour into the movie), horrible CGI, and character decisions/motivations that make no sense - such as Padme marrying Anakin despite Anakin openly supporting fascism and child murder.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
Totally depends on what you are looking for in a movie. I am for sure don't watch Star Wars because of the acting and dialogue.
If I want tons of world building without the skills of well made filmmaking I will read a Star Wars novel. If I am watching a movie I want a well made movie in the traditional sense in directing, editing, acting, etc.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
Totally depends on what you are looking for in a movie. I am for sure don't watch Star Wars because of the acting and dialogue.
The OT had very little in the way of world building. It was a family soap opera with a focus on character interactions, character development, action and adventure. World building was low on the list. The OT has rightfully gone back to that template.

If you're looking for world building in the primary cinematic movies SW is probably the wrong franchise for you.

Oh, and the SW ot had great acting and dialog.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,996
Attack of the Clones is the worst Star Wars movie.

Phantom Menace does generally suck, but there are some good things like the pod race and the Darth Maul duel with Obi Wan and Qui Gon.

Revenge of the Sith is mostly awful too, but the Sheev moments are solid. Every scene he's in is a meme now.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Attack of the Clones is a bad movie with poor pacing, a plot that barely makes any sense, the least threatening villain in all of Star Wars (who doesn't even show up on screen until an hour into the movie), horrible CGI, and character decisions/motivations that make no sense - such as Padme marrying Anakin despite Anakin openly supporting fascism and child murder.
If I want tons of world building without the skills of well made filmmaking I will read a Star Wars novel. If I am watching a movie I want a well made movie in the traditional sense in directing, editing, acting, etc.
The OT had very little in the way of world building. It was a family soap opera with a focus on character interactions, character development, action and adventure. World building was low on the list. The OT has rightfully gone back to that template.

If you're looking for world building in the primary cinematic movies SW is probably the wrong franchise for you.

Oh, and the SW ot had great acting and dialog.
I feel 20 years younger right now. Thanks for the ~2000 flashback. Hate on.
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,698
There's a lot to like about TPM, imo, but its flaws really bring it down. The story is non nonsensical, and Jar Jar is basically Roger Rabbit. But I like all the new designs, Qui-Gon brings a nice gravitas, and it really fleshes out the Star Wars galaxy.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
I feel 20 years younger right now. Thanks for the ~2000 flashback. Hate on.
I mean I doubt you're intersted in discussing this in good faith after that comment but AOTC's entire plot is sour down to its core. The movie is a love story built around two protagonists who have zero on screen chemistry, and the male lead is written to be a complete creep in every sense of the way.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
Yeah it has the poor kid acting and Jar Jar might have been a tad too goofy. But it has some of the best world building of any SW plus the pod race and final dual are both top notch Star Wars action scenes. For me AotC, TLJ, RO, are all beneath TPM. I also give Jar Jar some slack because I think theres a pretty good chance Darth Jar Jar was real and that would have been great. Lucas just pushed it a little too far, got backlash, then chickened out.
 

Voytek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,834
I would say it is a pretty commonly held view in fandom that TLJ is better than ANH. It tops ANH in many rankings.

TLJ being second to ESB is a pretty commonly held ranking the fandom I think is fair to say.

Well that's not true. TLJ commonly ranks somewhere between 4th-7th.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
Hell no, aotc easily. I'm biased towards the prequels though, they felt so fantastical to me as a child. The worlds felt huge and varied.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
I mean I doubt you're intersted in discussing this in good faith after that comment but AOTC's entire plot is sour down to its core. The movie is a love story built around two protagonists who have zero on screen chemistry, and the male lead is written to be a complete creep in every sense of the way.
I don't think this can be discussed in good faith to be honest. It's Star Wars after all. It's going like this since the prequels hit and it's the same with the new movies. It's okay to hate it. It's also okay to love it.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
Man, you would think "the entire prequel trilogy is worse than every single other mainline Star Wars movie" would be one of those things that people wouldn't need to argue over. Like needing oxygen or something.
 

Vylder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,258
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. A New Hope
5. Rogue One
6. The Force Awakens
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Solo
9. The Last Jedi
10. Attack of the Clones
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,326
I mean I doubt you're intersted in discussing this in good faith after that comment but AOTC's entire plot is sour down to its core. The movie is a love story built around two protagonists who have zero on screen chemistry, and the male lead is written to be a complete creep in every sense of the way.
With the greatest love theme ever wasted lol
Like most prequel things there is good, if not great ideas that were completely squandered by Lucas. The movie's main thrust should've been Obi Wan's plot (handled better of course) showing how the Order handled problems through deliberate investigations, diplomacy, and guidance of the Force vs the climax of what the Order does with an army of disposable life. Lucas puts that in with foreboding music and a throwaway line at the end of the film. It should've been the main theme of the movie
 

Tomasoares

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,604
People enjoy Star Wars because of the world building and even because of it alone, so I'm not surprised many people enjoy the prequels and find them better than the ST (which hasn't made any of it, specially related to politics).

At least for me, the world building Lucas tried to do was pretty shitty and shrunk the universe in many ways, while the ST, even if it tells a more narrowed story, expanded it, giving back the mystic aspect of the force and it not being belonged only to Jedi/Siths.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,435
The big problem with PM is that there's really no interesting character, not to mention that every performance is a slog. Attack of the clones is narratively more of a mess and the CG effects hold up less well but at least it has a fun obi wan
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
TPM is the best of the prequels

Yes, better than Sith, which I find massively overrated. It has all the same problems AOTC has, just with the benefit of telling a more interesting story.

I can see why that might push it over the top for most people, but that also came at the great expense of TPM and (to a lesser extent) AOTC having fuck-all to do with the over-arching plot. Sith could have easily been the starting point for the prequel trilogy given how little exposition we actually needed from TPM/AOTC to follow along with the story.

I give the edge to TPM because it feels the most like a Star Wars movie, it's like a natural evolution of where the franchise was headed after Jedi. My enjoyment of it roughly mirrors how I feel about Hook, another children's fantasy movie that's massively flawed but I can't help but adore it. TPM isn't quite as good as Hook (which doesn't have anything as obviously degrading as Jar-Jar or the racist Trade Federation officials), but I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it the last time I re-watched it. Definitely a movie where my experience with it didn't quite live up to the anti-hype generated by Internet discussion (Spider-Man 3, which I only saw for the first time earlier this year, was the same way - can understand why people didn't care for it, didn't match the "WORST. MOVIE. EVAR" hyperbole that usually goes with it).