The PC Builders Thread ("I Need a New PC") v3

Nida · Apr 4, 2020

Black_Stride said:
Yes the Sabrent is a good choice, its a really strong choice for bang for buck when it comes SSDs.
You could even do a Rocket Q and still be good.

Pretty much all the newer SSDs are very good choices Samsung is the "cool" choice but it doesnt offer tangible performance benefits over the current competition.

As for 2 monitor setups....you can tell each program to output audio to which ever audio device you want....im assuming you are on windows 10.
I used to do this with me X she would watch real housewives on one screen and i would be gaming on the other.
I would just set the game audio to come out of my headphones, and the other audio was handled by the TV.

I had a Monitor for gaming and a TV for .....errr gaming and large real estate when I didnt need speed.

Awesome. She's going to build a PC eventually but this should work really well.

Crazymoogle · Apr 4, 2020

Raydonn said:
I like this guide, but aren't most SSDs using 3D stacking technology now?

EDIT: Nevermind, I reread it and you do address it. I'm too sleepy, I should sleep.

It's okay. :) Yes, basically all SSDs now are using 3D Stacking, it's just in addition to TLC/QLC. It wasn't really worth putting in the FAQ since it's not buying information, but there is a lot of industry pressure to go to 128 and 160 layers right now, simply because the alternative is PLC (5 bits/cell) which would be absolutely ruinous to performance. Samsung of course is one of the industry leaders here with VNAND but I gather they ran into problems given how far behind they were - even before C19 - on delivering the 980 series.

Nida said:
Sabrent 2TB Rocket NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Internal SSD High Performance Solid State Drive (SB-ROCKET-2TB)
With the 2 monitor setup can each have their own sound output? I use a screen reader, didn't know if it would work.

The Sabrent Rocket (blue label) is roughly the same thing as the ADATA SX8200 Pro and ex950. It's a solid TLC drive so you'll get really great PCIe 3.0 performance. The Rocket Q is similar, but QLC so performance takes a hit. The bronze label is the PCIe 4.0 model which is very unlikely to be in your price range and is overkill anyway.

When you have two monitors there really isn't such a thing as discrete modes. Windows basically treats all monitors as part of the same desktop (even if split) so if you have a game running on one screen it's literally a "window". So all sounds consider the whole of windows, not just a single screen, unless your app or device is looking only at the game in question.

Generally speaking games will turn off audio if you take away focus (for example, click on a web browser window) but some have the option to keep audio going. I'm kind of reaching the edge of my knowledge on exactly how windows handles it though...

Nida · Apr 4, 2020

XPG vs. Sabrent is a difference of $10. The Sabrent has 5k reviews though.

I'm paying with a gift card. Hm...

Stacey · Apr 4, 2020

I swear the Noctua nf-A12x25 is from the future.

Silent at 1500rpm. I'm now using 4 in my case and all I hear is the pump.

Crazymoogle · Apr 4, 2020

Nida said:
XPG vs. Sabrent is a difference of $10. The Sabrent has 5k reviews though.

I'm paying with a gift card. Hm...

I'm using the ADATA SX8200 Pro 2TB and it's been flawless, totally fine with that one...

PhantomFFR · Apr 4, 2020

Nida said:
Wanting my fiancee to be able to play the Witcher on our tv while I do work on the monitor. It's setup to both currently, and the Witcher has a setting for which screen the game will play on. Just wasn't sure if she could use the controller in that window while I use mouse on mine. Also wasn't sure how sound would work.

Without any special software you won't be able to have two people use two different programs at the same time on one PC.

As for sound: Some programs allow you to select a prefered audio output device within themselves. Mostly media players have that functionality, so you could output sound from say VLC to your headphones, while all other windows sounds/programs output to the TV speakers.

SmartWaffles · Apr 4, 2020

Nida said:
Wanting my fiancee to be able to play the Witcher on our tv while I do work on the monitor. It's setup to both currently, and the Witcher has a setting for which screen the game will play on. Just wasn't sure if she could use the controller in that window while I use mouse on mine. Also wasn't sure how sound would work.

Moogle, is this SSD my best bet?

Samsung (MZ-V7E1T0BW) 970 EVO SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe Interface Internal Solid State Drive with V-NAND Technology, Black/Red

Unfortunately you can't do that. Controls will be conflicting.

molnizzle · Apr 4, 2020

maped said:
Fire up your favorite CAD-program, draw up your case and send it to Protocase for a quote. It's hard to say how much it's going to be but judging from the few examples floating around on the internet, probably about 1000$ for a simple design, more for any complicated designs or if the design needs tweaking to work.

Hmm... I wonder how difficult it is to learn CAD...

maped · Apr 4, 2020

molnizzle said:
Hmm... I wonder how difficult it is to learn CAD...

They do offer the use of their own free to use cad-program where you can start from a basic case and customize it to your liking. It's going to take some learning but it's mostly just about having the measurements for all the components and being able to apply them to a 3-dimensional object. Having a case or a built computer at hand for measurements and to see how much space things like cables and tubing need is a big help in making something actually usable. Protocase also seems to have a design service where they take care of the nitty gritty technical details and all you need to do is provide a sketch and/or what you need to fit in the case, but I'm guessing for a one-off it would inflate the cost greatly.

Stacey · Apr 4, 2020

Do Nvidia restock Founders cards? had my eye on the 2070 super, finally pull the trigger and its sold out. Hate the design of custom gpus :(

Canklestank · Apr 4, 2020

Crazymoogle said:
SSD Guide
Modern PC SSDs have a few specs you need to be aware of before you purchase. (Don't worry, it's easier than it sounds!)

INTERFACE: SATA (old), NVMe (new)

SIZE: 3.5" (big), 2.5", M.2 (tiny)

FLASH: QLC (slow/cheap), TLC, SLC (fast/expensive)

CACHE: Does it have its own RAM?

Q: Can my PC use an SSD?
As long as it's not 15+ years old, yes. Every motherboard today has "SATA" ports, which are basically data plugs meant for hard drives. Worse case, you can buy an SSD supporting that plug. Even the PlayStation 4 supports SSDs using this method.

If you absolutely want an M.2 NVMe because it's awesome/small/fast, but don't have the slot, you can buy an M.2 adapter card that plugs into any PCIe 3.0/4.0 slot. This will allow you to add 1-2 M.2 NVMe drives of your choosing. (But usually this cannot be booted from.)

Q: What size of SSD should I buy?
For this, you need to look at the website or manual of your motherboard because there are a few specs out there:

SATA (2.5"): As I said above, you undoubtedly have a SATA port. If your case has a spot to install a 2.5" drive, that means you can buy a 2.5" SSD. It's the slowest and oldest of SSDs, but it does work. Just remember you need to have a SATA cable and a SATA power cable for it to work.

M.2 (SATA): Most motherboards in the last 5 years (or more) support M.2, a tiny standard where the SSD is so small it's literally a stick that plugs into the motherboard. No cables. The older M.2 slots still use SATA, meaning if you plug in an M.2 SATA drive, one of your SATA ports will be disabled.

M.2 (NVMe): The modern standard. NVMe is a protocol specifically for SSDs that communicates as if it's a PCIe card. NVMe cards are easily the fastest, and this is the protocol used by PS5/XSX. M.2 cards do require a tiny standoff and screw, which should come with your motherboard accessories (if not, look on amazon...) Since they are so tiny and cableless, they are the easiest to install.

Q: What speed of SSD should I buy?
This is a bit trickier. There are basically 5 products on the market currently (2020):

INTERFACE: SATA (slowest) > PCIe 3.0 > PCIe 3.0x4 > PCIe 4.0
Why PCIe? NVMe communicates like a PCIe card, so it uses PCIe speeds. As of April 2020, only AMD X570 motherboards and the PlayStation 5 support PCIe 4.0. Intel only supports up to PCIe 3.0x4 and might not support 4.0 until 2021. 4.0 offers massive boosts in bandwidth (5-8GB/s) but you won't notice this different (yet) in gaming.

CACHE: Any decent SSD uses a RAM cache to maximize lifetime and reduce latency. However, some new (2019/2020) cheap SSDs are starting to appear that are "DRAMless", using part of the SSD itself as a cache. Avoid these if at all possible; the latency hit is severe.

FLASH: The storage chips themselves. Basically to make SSDs affordable, manufacturers went from 1 bit per cell (SLC) to 2 bits (MLC) to 3 bits (TLC) and finally 4 bits (QLC). Every time they do this, you get more storage, but lifetime and speed get cut severely. Currently most "performance" SSDs are TLC and "cheap" SSDs are QLC.

If you hear about "3D", well, that's the other solution. Most modern SSDs stack layers of MLC/TLC on top of each other. (64, 96, 128 microscopic layers tall). Samsung's VNAND does exactly this, sidestepping the whole QLC problem.

So given all of this, there are basically these classes available today from cheapest to most expensive:

DRAMless QLC: new, dirt cheap, bad performance, 2.5" or M.2 form factors, avoid.

2.5" SATA: old drives, mostly going out of the market, although the Samsung 860 Evo hangs around.

QLC + DRAM (Sabrent Rocket Q) The "slowest" of the fast, but still good. Avoid the Intel 660p if possible.

TLC + DRAM (HP ex950, ADATA SX 8200 Pro) 3.0x4 drives with great performance.

Samsung VNAND (970 EVO, 970 Pro) The best of 3.0x4 but very expensive.

PCIe 4.0 (AORUS Gen 4) The fastest today, but double the price of 3.0x4 and games can't use it yet.

Linus Tech Tips did a blind test for today's games (2019/early 2020) and found no noticeable difference between SATA 2.5" and PCIe 4.0 in terms of initial load and overall experience. Benchmarks slow a slight advantage up the scale, but not enough to be noticeable without the numbers in front of you. Professional apps clearly favor NVMe. tl;dr?

Budget minded gamers should opt for 2.5" SATA or QLC+DRAM. Crucial P1, 860 EVO, etc.

Perf/pro app gamers should opt for TLC drives. ex950, SX8200 Pro, etc.

In general I won't recommend the Samsung 970 unless you find a great sale, as you're always better off with, say, a 1TB TLC drive than a 500GB Samsung.

Similarly, unless you are doing heavy video editing or other demanding high end drive stuff, you're better off with 3.0x4 than 4.0 drives for the same size reason. The SX8200 Pro 2TB at some point was at or under $300 USD.

Q: Why don't games scale with the SSD yet?
A handful of reasons, although there are probably more:

Today's games on PC use RAM as a massive cache, because there's just more to work with than on console. A PS4 game is constantly thrashing its hard drive to stream data in and out, while a PC with 16GB of RAM has a huge amount of space to just preload most of that information. They can "lazy stream", so to speak.

Windows overhead. Microsoft is introducing DirectStorage with Xbox Series X as a way to minimize this and is expected to update that on PC DirectX as well.

Common denominator: PC is rarely lead platform (even though the vast majority of gamedev is PCs). I'd say most gamedev uses 2.5" SATA these days for development tools and running the build, but optimization is to run on an HD. So I suspect that in the future as PS5/XSX games use relatively huge amounts of RAM and fast storage, games will either scale up better on PC or offer an "SSD mode" to change the loading strategy. <<no inside info here, sadly! Just a guess.

Looking forward for people buying now, if you want to be "future proof", you can buy a TLC 3.0x4 drive and get the same or better specs as the Xbox Series X drive. But I suspect even QLC drives will see benefit if games start using SSDs more effectively.

Q: What about PlayStation 5?
Sony has a bit of a Ferrari. The fastest SSDs today are 8 channel, 5GB/s PCIe 4.0 drives that can only be used on the AMD X570 motherboard. Sony's solution is 12 channel (never used in PC retail) and 5.5GB/s. Add in a custom I/O core and it's probably not directly comparable to any PC drive.

Later 2020, the second generation of PCIe 4.0 drives will come out on the PC market (Samsung 980 Pro, Phison E18, etc) with even better bandwidth (7GB/s+ vs. PS5 5.5GB/s). So the highway won't be as "wide", but traffic will be faster, sort of evening-out the advantage. I suspect many of them will be considered PS5 compatible. Just keep in mind they will be expensive - expect to pay double the price of a 3.0x4 drive at first.

Q: Does Brand Name Matter?
Not really. These days all SSDs use controller chips from a handful of manufacturers. So for example, the HP ex950 and ADATA SX8200 Pro are virtually the same drive despite vastly different brand names. Each brand may introduce their own tweaks, but at the end of the day the number of drive controller and flash manufacturers is very few. There has also been some high profile gaffes by major brands, especially Intel with their subpar 660p/665p models.

Where brand can matter a bit is if you're buying truly no-name Chinese brands from, say, Alibaba. A lot of b/c-tier stock and controller chips we've never heard of come out of that space. General rule of thumb: if you're not sure about the brand, google some reviews or search on youtube. Almost all of the popular but lesser known brands have reviews. (addlink, ADATA, teamforce, etc)

Q: How much storage should I get?
In the old days of SSDs you'd just get a small boot drive for Windows. You can still do that, but SSD speed scales up towards 1TB/2TB. So if you want fast, you want one of those two sizes. There's just a peace-of-mind benefit to having one drive letter that is fast everywhere and not always managing what goes on the SSD, what goes on the HDD, etc. For average gaming a 1TB model is recommended; it's lots of room for games, Windows, and minimal management. The Crucial P1 (QLC+DRAM) has been at or below $100 USD, which means there are affordable drives at that size.

Keep in mind that most motherboards have only two M.2 slots, and the maximum size M.2 you can buy today is 2TB. (4TB is sometimes available, but only if you have...say, 2-3000 dollars). So if you have a lot of games you may want another M.2 drive later (or just a big HDD for all of those tiny games that don't give a crap about where you store it).

Are Anandtech's SX8200 Pro findings not worth mentioning? Probably fringe cases, but the full performance and some of the latency is a little alarming.

Comparing Two 1TB NVMe Drives with Same NAND, Same Controller: XPG SX8200 Pro vs HP EX950

www.anandtech.com

I actually bought the ADATA before I read that review and I'm returning it for a WD SN750 I found for the same price.

Dick Whitman · Apr 4, 2020

So I finally managed to order NZXT's pre-built mini ITX PC before it sold-out (again). Yes, I could have (and maybe probably should have) just ordered the H1 case and built something myself, especially since an H1 build seems relatively easy given that the actual case comes with a pre-installed PSU, AIO, and riser card. In the end though I just went with a pre-built configuration. I really would have liked to have upgraded the GPU from a 2070 Super to a 2080 Ti but NZXT didn't give me that option. My question now is should I wait until Nvidia announces the 3080 series before upgrading my GPU? Is it possible that the 2080 Ti will receive a price drop once that announcement is made?

Cigarette Juice · Apr 4, 2020

I bought a louqe ghost about a month ago and am planning on moving my current pc components into it but I would have to get a new cpu cooler and psu.

I was looking at the noctua nh-l12s or l9x65 and the corsair sf600 plat but I would have to slightly bend the l12s to fit in the case, the l9x65 has similar cooling performance but is noisier, and the psu has been out of stock and corsair doesn't know when it'll be back in stock.

I currently have a ryzen 1600 and gtx 1070 and according to pcpartpicker my current setup has an estimated draw of 309w.
I would like to upgrade to the ryzen 4000 and nvidia 3000 series, so on pcpartpicker i added a ryzen 3600 and nvidia 2080ti and it uses 409w.

So I'm thinking the Corsair sf450 plat would be fine since the 3000 series is rumored to be more power efficient than the 2000 series.

fake edit:
I know noctua is going to release a version of the l12 for the louqe but didn't know it had an estimate release date other than "soon". I was searching as i was writing this and found that they're targeting a q3/2020 release and that's roughly the same time frame as the amd and nvidia release dates.

So now i'm thinking the smartest move is to wait and let my new case continue to collect dust until then especially since my budget would increase to include a monitor upgrade.

WolverinesFather · Apr 4, 2020

Hey all, I'm upgrading a few things and I have some questions on positioning.

The new power supply has an LED fan, and the case position is bottom mounted with a vent on the bottom. Do I position the fan into the case, or out the vent bottom?

for reference power supply and case

Smokey · Apr 4, 2020

Dick Whitman said:
So I finally managed to order NZXT's pre-built mini ITX PC before it sold-out (again). Yes, I could have (and maybe probably should have) just ordered the H1 case and built something myself, especially since an H1 build seems relatively easy given that the actual case comes with a pre-installed PSU, AIO, and riser card. In the end though I just went with a pre-built configuration. I really would have liked to have upgraded the GPU from a 2070 Super to a 2080 Ti but NZXT didn't give me that option. My question now is should I wait until Nvidia announces the 3080 series before upgrading my GPU? Is it possible that the 2080 Ti will receive a price drop once that announcement is made?

If Nvidia expects to slot the 3080ti in the 2080ti price bracket or hell freezes over and they come in a bit lower, it seems to me that the price of a 2080ti will have to drop in some way.

Eraser_Arcade · Apr 4, 2020

So I'm thinking about finally upgrading to a new PC. I've already picked out the parts for it. But before I make any final decisions, I wouldn't mind receiving any advice on what I'm buying for my upcoming build.

Here's my current PC setup: (built in 2013)
Motherboard: Asrock z77 Extreme 4
Processor: i7 3770k
RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz
GPU: Nvidia RTX 2070 Super (My old GPU died last year, & this GPU was on sale at the time, so I bought it)
PSU: Corsair AX 850
SSD: Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB
HDD: Seagate 3TB

I'm keeping\transferring my current GPU, SDD, & HDD for my upcoming build.

Upcoming build:
Motherboard: Asus Prime X570-P
Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
RAM: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 16GB or CORSAIR Vengeance RGB PRO 32GB ($80 difference)
PSU: CORSAIR RM Series, RM750, 750 Watt
NVMe M.2 SSD: Corsair Force Series MP600 1TB Gen4 PCIe (still trying to decide if I should get this or a just go with a Gen3 NVMe. In either case, It will be my OS drive.)
Computer Case: NZXT H510 White/Black

Evolution of Metal · Apr 4, 2020

Eraser_Arcade said:
So I'm thinking about finally upgrading to a new PC. I've already picked out the parts for it. But before I make any final decisions, I wouldn't mind receiving any advice on what I'm buying for my upcoming build.

Here's my current PC setup: (built in 2013)
Motherboard: Asrock z77 Extreme 4
Processor: i7 3770k
RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz
GPU: Nvidia RTX 2070 Super (My old GPU died last year, & this GPU was on sale at the time, so I bought it)
PSU: Corsair AX 850
SSD: Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB
HDD: Seagate 3TB

I'm keeping\transferring my current GPU, SDD, & HDD for my upcoming build.

Upcoming build:
Motherboard: Asus Prime X570-P
Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
RAM: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 16GB or CORSAIR Vengeance RGB PRO 32GB ($80 difference)
PSU: CORSAIR RM Series, RM750, 750 Watt
NVMe M.2 SSD: Corsair Force Series MP600 1TB Gen4 PCIe (still trying to decide if I should get this or a just go with a Gen3 NVMe. In either case, It will be my OS drive.)
Computer Case: NZXT H510 White/Black

Why are you replacing the PSU? AX 850 is probably even higher quality than RM lineup.

Don't buy PCIE 4 drives, they aren't delivering real-world performance. SX8200 Pro is excellent.

Don't know the X570 Prime price, but there seem to be better price/performance Mobos.

Invest in CPU cooler. Freezer Esports is an excellent budget cooler.

Eraser_Arcade · Apr 4, 2020

Evolution of Metal said:
Why are you replacing the PSU? AX 850 is probably even higher quality than RM lineup.

Honestly, because of the age of the unit. (Also I didn't realize AX was consider higher quality than RM.) Though I don't believe I currently have any issues with my PSU, I just thought that with a new build should come with a new PSU.

Evolution of Metal said:
Don't buy PCIE 4 drives, they aren't delivering real-world performance. SX8200 Pro is excellent.

Yeah more I think about it, I probably won't get a Gen4 drive for now. I''ll look into the SX8200 Pro; do you mean the ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB?

Evolution of Metal said:
Don't know the X570 Prime price, but there seem to be better price/performance Mobos.

I've read that the Asus Prime X570-P is a decent budget motherboard. And the current going price of $147, really helps. But if anyone can name better motherboards that are around the same price, that would be great.

Evolution of Metal said:
Invest in CPU cooler. Freezer Esports is an excellent budget cooler.

I was hoping the Ryzen Wraith Prism would be good enough, since I'm not planning on overclocking the CPU. Though if I do get a CPU cooler, I was thinking about going with the Noctua NH-U12S black.

Vulcano's Assistant · Apr 4, 2020

WolverinesFather said:
Hey all, I'm upgrading a few things and I have some questions on positioning.

The new power supply has an LED fan, and the case position is bottom mounted with a vent on the bottom. Do I position the fan into the case, or out the vent bottom?

for reference power supply and case

For the PSU itself it would be fine either way. Depends on whether you want it interacting with the air from the rest of the case or not. Facing up could help exhaust hot air from inside the case, facing down makes it its own isolated airflow.

Evolution of Metal · Apr 4, 2020

Eraser_Arcade said:
Honestly, because of the age of the unit. (Also I didn't realize AX was consider higher quality than RM.) Though I don't believe I currently have any issues with my PSU, I just thought that with a new build should come with a new PSU.

Yeah more I think about it, I probably won't get a Gen4 drive for now. I''ll look into the SX8200 Pro; do you mean the ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB?

I've read that the Asus Prime X570-P is a decent budget motherboard. And the current going price of $147, really helps. But if anyone can name better motherboards that are around the same price, that would be great.

I was hoping the Ryzen Wraith Prism would be good enough, since I'm not planning on overclocking the CPU. Though if I do get a CPU cooler, I was thinking about going with the Noctua NH-U12S black.

AX units have 10 year warranty. It is Titanium, better power efficiency than RM lineup. You save money by reusing it, you save by having a lil more efficient delivery, and you save planet from another perfectly good item being retired.

SX8200 Pro, Sabrent Rocket and more. There are plenty of good performance/performance NVMEs.

$147 is a good price.

Ryzen chips OC themselves based on thermals. Unless you are short on money, drop $30 on Freezer 34 or more for the Noctua one. Investing into the cooler is worth it.

Eraser_Arcade · Apr 4, 2020

Evolution of Metal said:
AX units have 10 year warranty. It is Titanium, better power efficiency than RM lineup. You save money by reusing it, you save by having a lil more efficient delivery, and you save planet from another perfectly good item being retired.

Just so we're clear, this is my current PSU.

The reason why I'm asking, is because Newegg has it listed as having a 7 year warranty (However, I could have sworn that it was under a 5 year warranty), and I just want to make sure you're talking about the same PSU. If so, I may take your advice and use my current PSU for my upcoming build. Then have the money that was going into a new PSU, instead go into upgraging my RAM from 16GB to 32GB.

Evolution of Metal · Apr 4, 2020

Eraser_Arcade said:
Just so we're clear, this is my current PSU.

The reason why I'm asking, is because Newegg has it listed as having a 7 year warranty (However, I could have sworn that it was under a 5 year warranty), and I just want to make sure you're talking about the same PSU. If so, I may take your advice and use my current PSU for my upcoming build. Then have the money that was going into a new PSU, instead go into upgraging my RAM from 16GB to 32GB.

Even if your AX PSU isn't as efficient as the newest AX model, it is still perfectly reusable and isn't inferior to RM lineup. I have seen so many crap office computers' PSU survive forever (10+ years full day uses eventually replaced by the new PC), that I cannot see premium-pro PSUs worth replacing after 7 years. This is why you paid the top dollar for your AX in 2013: to have the item that lasts.

Nothing · Apr 4, 2020

Crazymoogle said:
While the slide is easily better than the cheap metal clips used on all other CPU coolers today, the A500 is getting absolutely destroyed in reviews for an uneven contact plate and subpar thermals. It earned a hard no from both Hardware Canucks and Gamers Nexus, which is kind of impressive in the failboat category. Hell, HC did a second mod episode to sand it down and try adding a third fan, and it still was a fail.

It's also barely part of the Corsair ecosystem; there is no RGB support. So everyone is sadly better off roughing it with the clips and getting any better air cooler out there. Hyper 212, Mugen 5, Dark Rock 4 series, whatever.

That's terrible!

Thanks for posting the reviews. I haven't dived into them yet.

molnizzle · Apr 4, 2020

Nothing said:
That's terrible!

Thanks for posting the reviews. I haven't dived into them yet.

It's also louder than the competition, apparently.

shintoki · Apr 4, 2020

Hey guys, I'm looking for a mid range GPU. I'm seeing the 1660ti is in the sub 300s. But the 2060 is only 120ish more.

I've never owned an AMD either, so is the wait on AMD update in the OP? The 5770 seems like a decent price for kick

Sotonian · Apr 5, 2020

Hello, my current build has an i5 6600k and a 1060, i have about £400 available and want some advise on how i should upgrade based on that

Dick Whitman · Apr 5, 2020

Smokey said:
If Nvidia expects to slot the 3080ti in the 2080ti price bracket or hell freezes over and they come in a bit lower, it seems to me that the price of a 2080ti will have to drop in some way.

Yeah I'll probably try to hold out then. Especially since games like Cyberpunk, which will likely see the most benefit from more powerful GPUs, aren't due out any time soon.

Crazymoogle · Apr 5, 2020

Canklestank said:
Are Anandtech's SX8200 Pro findings not worth mentioning? Probably fringe cases, but the full performance and some of the latency is a little alarming.

Comparing Two 1TB NVMe Drives with Same NAND, Same Controller: XPG SX8200 Pro vs HP EX950

www.anandtech.com

I actually bought the ADATA before I read that review and I'm returning it for a WD SN750 I found for the same price.

Well, I didn't remember that piece, but ultimately the SM2262EN is doing what you should expect from any cheap TLC or modern QLC: writing to it as SLC. This means that when you run out of room - such as filling the entire drive and running long benchmarks - performance is going to tank. But then they give you the advantage of buying more space. For gamers here, it's just fine. But it's a good lesson on the tricks used for modern/cheap SSD performance.

(Good on you for finding the SN750 at a discount, it used to be a lot more expensive.)

Eraser_Arcade · Apr 5, 2020

Does anyone have any experience/opinions with the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite? I'm thinking about maybe spending the little extra money, and switch from buying the Asus Prime X570-P motherboard to the Aorus Elite.

Stacey · Apr 5, 2020

Sotonian said:
Hello, my current build has an i5 6600k and a 1060, i have about £400 available and want some advise on how i should upgrade based on that

Personally, an rtx 2060 is a good investment.

You good possibly find a 5700xt at that price range but with dlss and Ray tracing on the nvidia card I can't recommend it.

Vulcano's Assistant · Apr 5, 2020

Eraser_Arcade said:
Does anyone have any experience/opinions with the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite? I'm thinking about maybe spending the little extra money, and switch from buying the Asus Prime X570-P motherboard to the Aorus Elite.

Based on the reviews by Hardware Unboxed. All of the Asus and all the Gigabyte X570 boards over $180 are solid options. At $150 the Prime X570-P stands out, but in the higher tiers Gigabyte and Asus are just as good.

Nothing · Apr 5, 2020

Sotonian said:
Hello, my current build has an i5 6600k and a 1060, i have about £400 available and want some advise on how i should upgrade based on that

Wait until September for the new graphics cards.

justiceiro · Apr 5, 2020

So, guys, still in that mid range build, I thought about getting the monitor Led 24" Gamer LG 24GL600F 1ms 144hz Full HD Freesync. It's ok for a mid range build? Or it's overkill?

Black_Stride · Apr 5, 2020

Stacey said:
Do Nvidia restock Founders cards? had my eye on the 2070 super, finally pull the trigger and its sold out. Hate the design of custom gpus :(

I did a 2 second search on ebay, newegg and on Amazon and found a whole bunch of Founders Editions....what are you on about?
Literally every store mentioned in the OP has founder editions available.
Dont be lazy.

justiceiro said:
So, guys, still in that mid range build, I thought about getting the monitor Led 24" Gamer LG 24GL600F 1ms 144hz Full HD Freesync. It's ok for a mid range build? Or it's overkill?

24" 1080p overkill?
What would be reggie 540p.
But seriously thats a brilliant choice monitor, and you can never go wrong with getting extra Hz so should be fine for the midrange build.

Canklestank said:
Are Anandtech's SX8200 Pro findings not worth mentioning? Probably fringe cases, but the full performance and some of the latency is a little alarming.

Comparing Two 1TB NVMe Drives with Same NAND, Same Controller: XPG SX8200 Pro vs HP EX950

www.anandtech.com

I actually bought the ADATA before I read that review and I'm returning it for a WD SN750 I found for the same price.

I still treat SSDs like they are HDDs from pre-Vista days.....I do it subconsciously and still load up the defrag utility once every now and then.
I never actually let them get full so likely I would never experience anything like the article describes.
I literally clone SSDs to larger ones or start builds all over again once I reach a certain amount of data.

And I started SSD'ing when 64GB of SSD was considered serious.....so ive been cloning and upgrading from then till 1TB.
And Im about to clone or start another build onto a 2TB drive.

Elven_Star · Apr 5, 2020

Do we know if the new AMD CPUs are going to use AM4 or not?

NeoBob688 · Apr 5, 2020

I have this mobo.

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO LGA 1151 ATX Intel Gaming Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Gaming Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

Can someone tell me if this supports Samsung 970 EVO SSD 1TB M.2 NVMe?

Black_Stride · Apr 5, 2020

Elven_Star said:
Do we know if the new AMD CPUs are going to use AM4 or not?

Ryzen 4000 will be AM4.
Ryzen 5000 will be AM5.

Elven_Star · Apr 5, 2020

Black_Stride said:
Ryzen 4000 will be AM4.
Ryzen 5000 will be AM5.

OK, that's good to hear. My B350 is proving immortal.

Black_Stride · Apr 5, 2020

NeoBob688 said:
I have this mobo.

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO LGA 1151 ATX Intel Gaming Motherboard - Newegg.com

Buy ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII HERO LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 ATX Intel Gaming Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

Can someone tell me if this supports Samsung 970 EVO SSD 1TB M.2 NVMe?

It does.
Save a buck and buy pretty much anything other than the overpriced Samsung EVO.

How many lanes does you CPU have free?

MAXIMUS VIII HERO | Motherboards | ASUS Global

ROG’s ATX gaming motherboard is honed and optimized to be perfectly balanced for enthusiast-grade gaming desktops. Gamers looking to break into the ROG lineage need look no further than the Maximus VIII Hero.

www.asus.com

Black_Stride · Apr 5, 2020

Elven_Star said:
OK, that's good to hear. My B350 is proving immortal.

No confirmation B350 motherboards will be updated to support Ryzen 4000, I wouldnt be counting the chickens just yet.

catpurrcat · Apr 5, 2020

Sotonian said:
Hello, my current build has an i5 6600k and a 1060, i have about £400 available and want some advise on how i should upgrade based on that

If you can wait until Fall you can get a good deal on either a used Nvidia 2060 Super or possibly get a new 3060 when it's released.

If you can't wait, the RTX 2060 Super is a great choice.

NeoBob688 · Apr 5, 2020

Black_Stride said:
It does.
Save a buck and buy pretty much anything other than the overpriced Samsung EVO.

How many lanes does you CPU have free?

Thanks!

What is a cheap and reliable NVME drive then? I don't need highest performance because this is an older system anyway that I will replace in the next 12-18 months.

Not sure how many lanes CPU has free. How do I know that and why does that matter for a SSD?

myojinsoga · Apr 5, 2020

Spent a happy Sunday assembling my new build (which was kindly sanity-checked in here last week). All that's left is connecting power, installing the GPU, and sorting out cable management, before we find out what the 'on' button actually does!

It's been a delight so far, taken at its own pace, filleting these compact little boxes and mobilising their contents. Working from home tomorrow before finishing the job is going to be torturous ...

One thing I wasn't expecting was for there not to be enough fan headers to support a reasonable degree of cooling. Apparently I must supply my own doohickey? I suppose not everyone wants to (adequately?) cool their system (I guess?) ... And surely all motherboards vary, and economy is a thing, etc ... It still seems mean.

"Caveat emptor!" You will rightly shout. But my point is I never see it discussed, so didn't even think to ask myself. So here it is: a consideration. I am a fan short, until doohickey delivery day.

Eraser_Arcade said:
Does anyone have any experience/opinions with the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite? I'm thinking about maybe spending the little extra money, and switch from buying the Asus Prime X570-P motherboard to the Aorus Elite.

I am unqualified to advise; however I've spent an afternoon with said board and am sanguine. I will say, that I have examined myself as to whether the lower end of newer boards is where I really wanted to be, and did I perhaps want to have given more thought to being at the higher end of B450 instead?

In my case, wanting to maximise otherwise average performance, and wishing to facilitate hypothetical future upgrades, I think X570 was the better plan. I'm sure the Elite will / would serve us both fine.

Stacey · Apr 5, 2020

Black_Stride said:
I did a 2 second search on ebay, newegg and on Amazon and found a whole bunch of Founders Editions....what are you on about?
Literally every store mentioned in the OP has founder editions available.
Dont be lazy.

Should have mentioned uk websites but thanks for the hostility.

Crazymoogle · Apr 5, 2020

myojinsoga said:
One thing I wasn't expecting was for there not to be enough fan headers to support a reasonable degree of cooling. Apparently I must supply my own doohickey? I suppose not everyone wants to (adequately?) cool their system (I guess?) ... And surely all motherboards vary, and economy is a thing, etc ... It still seems mean.

edits:

My original advice, for anyone who's reading: you can use AIO_PUMP (4 pin) for fans. It's just locked at 12V, because pumps are just always running. However, some motherboards let you adjust the voltage to the specific header (which would adjust the speed of a 3-pin fan) or if you have a 4-pin PWM, it communicates over that instead and no tweaking is necessary. So, if you're totally out and don't have a splitter, it's a decent option.

Now, the situation between these two motherboards is ridiculous:

Fan Headers:
ASUS X570 Prime-P: 3x CHA, 1x CPU, 1x PCH, 1x AIO_PUMP (6x total)
AORUS X570 Elite: 2x CHA, 1x CPU, 1x AIO_PUMP (4x total)

RGB Headers:
ASUS X570 Prime-P: 0x 3RGB (???), 2x 4RGB
AORUS X570 Elite: 2x 3RGB, 3x 4RGB (holy crap, that's a lot)

The ASUS TUF X570 has, by comparison: 5x fan headers and 3x RGB headers. And that Prime-P manual is hot garbage. Even more reason to consider the TUF baseline if you can get it. I mean, I understand if you're an RGB junkie, but honestly any RGB junkie is already dealing with controllers or daisy chains. Probably a lot of them. People who just want to plug in fans are not always so lucky.

Black_Stride · Apr 5, 2020

Stacey said:
Should have mentioned uk websites but thanks for the hostility.

Should have emoji'd my post.
I wasnt being hostile, this is a safe space....I was just joshing you.
UK seems like finding them is a little rowdy with the founders editions.

But to answer your earlier post, they dont restock Founder Editions....its part of the whole idea of it being a Founder Edition card, you were someone who got in early and founded the new generation.
IF they just restocked them, selling them for a premium wouldnt make sense.

What kind of cooler are you looking for, if its the colour it should be easy to find......if its about not being overly flashy, understated cards exist out there....give me a second and ill try get you a couple understated card coolers.

Eraser_Arcade said:
Does anyone have any experience/opinions with the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Elite? I'm thinking about maybe spending the little extra money, and switch from buying the Asus Prime X570-P motherboard to the Aorus Elite.

The Aorus X570 series are probably the best bang for buck boards out there right now.

Be forewarned, the Elite has very very few Fan headers(4), so get yourself some splitters or upgrade to the Aorus Pro if you plan on running a few fans.
If the fan headers arent an issue, the Aorus boards are pretty much bulletproof and have been getting constant support for BIOS....which is devilishly easy to update.
So its a pretty safe bet for a motherboard, and will be ready for Ryzen 4000 if you plan on upgrading.

NeoBob688 said:
Thanks!

What is a cheap and reliable NVME drive then? I don't need highest performance because this is an older system anyway that I will replace in the next 12-18 months.

Not sure how many lanes CPU has free. How do I know that and why does that matter for a SSD?

The just get an SATA SSD.
If its for gaming purposes, you wont notice a difference between SATA SSD and Nvme M.2.
As for drives to chose from....a good alternative to the EVO is the Sabrent Rocket, even the Rocket Q gets the job done at a really kind price.

With your PC being already old I doubt an M.2 will boost performance significantly enough over SATA SSD to warrant paying the premium....bt you might want to use the NVMe in your next build....so yeah a Sabrent Rocket is a good choice.

myojinsoga said:
Spent a happy Sunday assembling my new build (which was kindly sanity-checked in here last week). All that's left is connecting power, installing the GPU, and sorting out cable management, before we find out what the 'on' button actually does!
It's been a delight so far, taken at its own pace, filleting these compact little boxes and mobilising their contents. Working from home tomorrow before finishing the job is going to be torturous ...
One thing I wasn't expecting was for there not to be enough fan headers to support a reasonable degree of cooling. Apparently I must supply my own doohickey? I suppose not everyone wants to (adequately?) cool their system (I guess?) ... And surely all motherboards vary, and economy is a thing, etc ... It still seems mean.
"Caveat emptor!" You will rightly shout. But my point is I never see it discussed, so didn't even think to ask myself. So here it is: a consideration. I am a fan short, until doohickey delivery day.
I am unqualified to advise; however I've spent an afternoon with said board and am sanguine. I will say, that I have examined myself as to whether the lower end of newer boards is where I really wanted to be, and did I perhaps want to have given more thought to being at the higher end of B450 instead?
In my case, wanting to maximise otherwise average performance, and wishing to facilitate hypothetical future upgrades, I think X570 was the better plan. I'm sure the Elite will / would serve us both fine.

THe Aorus Elite strikes again.
But that shows how good a board it actually is....the only real complaint against it, is that it comes with only 4 fan headers.

Tis the reason one of my builds only has F12s in it.
I could daisy chain everything together and have all the front fans be controlled by one port, all the exhaust fans to another port and the CPU independently.

myojinsoga · Apr 5, 2020

Crazymoogle said:
The Prime P has 5 fan headers including the CPU fan. Are you already using AIO_PUMP? That also works as a fan header. It's locked at 12V but if you plug a 4 pin PWM fan in then that doesn't matter.

edit: I misunderstood, the Aorus indeed has fewer headers and I thought you had the Prime-P. Well, if you ever need an extra header, always keep an eye out for good ol' AIO_PUMP...

No problem, and yes, I guess my knowledge and experience overall are expanding! XD

Black_Stride said:
THe Aorus Elite strikes again.
But that shows how good a board it actually is....the only real complaint against it, is that it comes with only 4 fan headers.

Tis the reason one of my builds only has F12s in it.
I could daisy chain everything together and have all the front fans be controlled by one port, all the exhaust fans to another port and the CPU independently.

Ok, so I guess it's a known thing, then! Oddly I don't feel so bad about it, knowing that. Pride restored, ego protected. Those daisy chains look awesome, and having them linked in an intelligent way makes a lot of sense. Are the fans themselves any good?

molnizzle · Apr 5, 2020

Man I'm getting sick of these inflated prices. AiO's are out of control right now. When my new case comes in I'm going to need a temporary 120mm cooler to last me until the new chips release, but everything is at least 20% higher than MSRP. I don't want to pay it since the case won't be here for weeks, but then I worry that prices might be even higher by then. So frustrating.

justiceiro · Apr 5, 2020

Black_Stride said:
24" 1080p overkill?
What would be reggie 540p.
But seriously thats a brilliant choice monitor, and you can never go wrong with getting extra Hz so should be fine for the midrange build.

One thing I didn't mention is that it's TN. Is that a detriment? Contrast seemed low too 7000:1. Since the price was higher than I was hoping for, I wonder if it's a sure investment.

Black_Stride · Apr 5, 2020

justiceiro said:
One thing I didn't mention is that it's TN. Is that a detriment? Contrast seemed low too 7000:1. Since the price was higher than I was hoping for, I wonder if it's a sure investment.

Its a TN panel, it wil have all the short comings of the technology.
It being TN it will be very fast, which Im assuming you wanted which is why you were shopping for a 144Hz screen.

But the vibrancy, uniformity and contrast will be worse than OLED, IPS or VA.
It can be calibrated to have excellent color accuracy though.

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