The PC Builders Thread ("I Need a New PC") v2

catpurrcat · Oct 21, 2019

Mr.Beep said:
Thanks guys. I've opted for a 2070 super. Im just worried that it would struggle to do over 60fps at 1440p. Especially if next gen consoles are going to push 4k at 60ish right?

Don't worry, the 2070S is plenty. Here's an article that drastically helped with my (same) decision because I play at 4k or 1440-1800p upscaled if the game can't keep up at 60fps. It's a 37 game benchmark.

Edit:
I should also add that regional pricing should factor into your decision. The XT was priced ~10% above the actual USD exchange rate where I live, and considering the resale market 2-4 years from now is based in USD$ pricing (like ebay or ERA BST forums), I wasn't willing to pay a price premium now because I'd eat the loss 2-4 years from now upon resale.

The 2070S made way better long term sense even though it cost more overall.

If the 5700XT is appropriately priced in your area then give it serious consideration.

Deleted member 55164 · Oct 21, 2019

Ok everything except motherboard and cpu purchased! I havent started building yet but think I will this weekend as I wait to see what the new Ryzen or 9900KS are like before leaping into a chipset...this is a pure gaming/4K/HDR setup as I'm using my MacBook for productivity and general 'stuff'.

Yes I've splurged but been saving for a year to get this and been slowly building up parts!
Ignore the prices, Australia is stupid-expensive for technology...

Decision time! Ryzen or Intel...

CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Floe Riing RGB 360 TT Premium Edition 42.34 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($279.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($269.86 @ Amazon Australia)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
Storage: Seagate FireCuda 2 TB 2.5" 5400RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($155.00 @ Amazon Australia)
Video Card: MSI GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB GAMING X TRIO Video Card ($1965.00 @ Amazon Australia)
Case: Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic ATX Full Tower Case ($217.75 @ Amazon Australia)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx (2018) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($549.90 @ Amazon Australia)
Case Fan: Thermaltake Riing Trio 12 RGB TT Premium Edition (3-Fan) 41.13 CFM 120 mm Fans ($211.34 @ Amazon Australia)
Case Fan: Thermaltake Riing Trio 12 RGB TT Premium Edition (3-Fan) 41.13 CFM 120 mm Fans ($211.34 @ Amazon Australia)
Monitor: Dell U3219Q 31.5" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor ($1260.39 @ Amazon Australia)
Keyboard: Ducky One 2 Mini Wired Standard Keyboard
Mouse: Glorious PC Gaming Race MODEL O Wired Optical Mouse
Headphones: Sennheiser HD 800 S Headphones ($4358.22 @ Amazon Australia)
Speakers: Audioengine A2+R 60 W 2.0 Channel Speakers ($575.00 @ Amazon Australia)
UPS: CyberPower CP825AVRLCD UPS ($346.00 @ Amazon Australia)
Custom: Sennheiser HDV 820 (Purchased For $3799.00)

Santini · Oct 21, 2019

Mr.Beep said:
Thanks guys. I've opted for a 2070 super. Im just worried that it would struggle to do over 60fps at 1440p. Especially if next gen consoles are going to push 4k at 60ish right?

With games that are currently out, you can definitely do over 60fps at Ultra/Very High Settings at 1440p on the 2070 Super, but this, of course, can be title dependent. For example, with all the ray tracing bells and whistles turned on in Control, you're definitely not going to maintain a steady 60fps. It won't be an unplayable stuttery mess, though. Source: played, enjoyed, and finished Control on a 2070 Super with RTX and DLSS turned on.

Here's one of many YouTube videos you can find with 2070 Super 1440p/4K game benchmarks; maybe one of the games you play is featured in it.

Ra · Oct 21, 2019

I have a CPU question for anyone to answer. Assuming they are both running at similar clockspeeds, and we are in a utopia where games are threaded and scaling perfectly, do you see any major pitfalls in choosing between 6 cores/12 threads and 8 cores/8 threads?

I'm trying to make a decision.

Fachasaurus · Oct 21, 2019

Can anyone recommend a soundbar for my computer? I basically need something compact and and not super wide. My monitor is a 34 Ultrawide so I have around 30 inches of space below it.

I don't need a sub or anything special. Just something that sounds better than the sub 50 dollar options on Amazon that apparently sound like garbage.

Mr.Beep · Oct 21, 2019

Again, thank you for your help guys. Probably could of went with a 5700XT and saved $200AUD but a slightly better card might help once games get more demanding over the next 2 years.

Gsync monitors are so expensive though for 1440p. I wish I had a better understanding of this stuff, like if I can't go over 60fps then there's no reason to get a monitor higher than 60hz right? I better start looking into this stuff.

SiG · Oct 21, 2019

More and more I think I'm gravitating towards the NCase M1, especially with the new Revision 6 variant and the fact that it can accept this mini-DTX motherboard form factor for Ryzen chips, then again it might be overkill for a gaming PC.

Now that the balance of power in the CPU space has been tilted, I'm a bit unsure were to proceed from a i7-6700k. Do I go Ryzen 9 3900x or go Ryzen 7 3700x? Suppose this PC is meant to do more than just play games (Twitch stream said games), but then again, I don't think I'll be using Blender or video encoding apps anytime, though would be nice to have it in case I wanted to convert my old DVDs into a nicely compressed x265 format.

Edit: Forgot to mention my current GPU is an R9 Nano (not Nano Vega) due to its ITX profile. What would be the logical step up in terms of half-width cards? If it's Nvidia, it might as well be an RTX card I'd figure, but dunno if I should settle for 2060 Super Mini or 2070 Mini.

Edit 2: Crap! M1 Top Panel with optical drive slot is discontinued! Dammit!

Mohsenix · Oct 21, 2019

I'm buying a Ryzen 5 3600 in a few months but I'm not sure if I have to upgrade my memory as well. They're pretty slow (2400Mhz) and I've heard AMD CPUs perform better with faster memories. So is it worth upgrading to 3200Mhz or 3600Mhz memories?

Theswweet · Oct 21, 2019

K.Jack said:
I have a CPU question for anyone to answer. Assuming they are both running at similar clockspeeds, and we are in a utopia where games are threaded and scaling perfectly, do you see any major pitfalls in choosing between 6 cores/12 threads and 8 cores/8 threads?

I'm trying to make a decision.

Get a 3700x, king. Don't get a 9700k.

Santini · Oct 21, 2019

Mr.Beep said:
Again, thank you for your help guys. Probably could of went with a 5700XT and saved $200AUD but a slightly better card might help once games get more demanding over the next 2 years.

Gsync monitors are so expensive though for 1440p. I wish I had a better understanding of this stuff, like if I can't go over 60fps then there's no reason to get a monitor higher than 60hz right? I better start looking into this stuff.

At 1440p, the 2070 Super will hit over 60fps right now in many AAA games at high/very high to ultra settings.

You can save money by getting a G-SYNC Compatible FreeSync monitor instead unless you really want that G-SYNC hardware as part of your monitor. And even if a monitor isn't on NVIDIA's official list, you can check out owner reviews to see if a FreeSync 1440p monitor you're interested is G-SYNC Compatible. This feature only works with NVIDIA 10xx and 20xx series GPUs via DisplayPort, but you're getting the 2070 Super, so you're good there.

And if you had went with the 5700 XT, you definitely would have wanted a FreeSync monitor and not a G-SYNC only one as the pairing would not have worked together at all in regards to variable refresh rates.

Caz · Oct 21, 2019

Welp.

Ryzen 3000 it is then. If they can't guarantee compatibility with current Threadripper CPUs, I have no reason to believer that a 4th Gen Threadripper CPU will work on these new motherboards. At least with Ryzen, there's one more year of guaranteed compatibility, and the 3950X matches the 1950X in number of threads.

Mr.Beep · Oct 21, 2019

Santini said:
At 1440p, the 2070 Super will hit over 60fps right now in many AAA games at high/very high to ultra settings.

You can save money by getting a G-SYNC Compatible FreeSync monitor instead unless you really want that G-SYNC hardware as part of your monitor. And even if a monitor isn't on NVIDIA's official list, you can check out owner reviews to see if a FreeSync 1440p monitor you're interested is G-SYNC Compatible. This feature only works with NVIDIA 10xx and 20xx series GPUs via DisplayPort, but you're getting the 2070 Super, so you're good there.

And if you had went with the 5700 XT, you definitely would have wanted a FreeSync monitor and not a G-SYNC only one as the pairing would not have worked together at all in regards to variable refresh rates.

Thanks, I really do appreciate your time in providing me this info. So I want to look for a FreeSync 1440p monitor that is Gsync compatible.

Does it need to be over 60hz or is that what the syncing mechanic does? Also, if it goes through a display port, what do you do for sound? Sorry I'm totally new to this.

catpurrcat · Oct 21, 2019

Mohsenix said:
I'm buying a Ryzen 5 3600 in a few months but I'm not sure if I have to upgrade my memory as well. They're pretty slow (2400Mhz) and I've heard AMD CPUs perform better with faster memories. So is it worth upgrading to 3200Mhz or 3600Mhz memories?

Yes, 3200 is fine.

Bumrush · Oct 21, 2019

Do you guys expect the next generation of GPUs and CPUs (together) to be able to run 4K/60 at max settings with ray tracing? High end obviously.

Santini · Oct 21, 2019

Mr.Beep said:
Thanks, I really do appreciate your time in providing me this info. So I want to look for a FreeSync 1440p monitor that is Gsync compatible.

Does it need to be over 60hz or is that what the syncing mechanic does? Also, if it goes through a display port, what do you do for sound? Sorry I'm totally new to this.

Sure thing. It's easy to get lost in the weeds with monitors as there's no "perfect" one, as everyone's use cases are different.

In general, what FreeSync and G-SYNC do is eliminate stutters and screen tearing by keeping refresh rates in sync with a game's frame rate, which can rise and fall depending on the title. This makes your game play experience feel smooth, even if the action drops below 60fps on more demanding games. You also won't get the input lag normally associated with V-Sync.

tl;dr: a monitor that has FreeSync or G-SYNC featured is going to be better than one without it when it comes to gaming.

What monitor you want to get highly depends on what you want to do with it, as aside from high refresh rates and variable refresh rate tech like FreeSync and G-SYNC, there's the types of panels a monitor has. This is a deep dive you're going to want to explore before spending a cent, but in general, there are TN panels that are better for high refresh rate gaming (up to 240Hz), IPS panels that are better for professional photo/video editing work, and VA panels that are somewhere in the middle (or worse, depending on the quality).

Ultimately, each panel type has benefits and trade-offs (and come in different sizes), and which one will be the "best" for you is going to be a combination of your needs/wants and budget. But to go back to your question, if your wallet can afford it, get a high refresh rate monitor (greater than 60Hz) that has some sort of variable refresh rate tech like FreeSync/G-SYNC, in a panel type and size that meets your needs and budget.

Lastly, DisplayPort does carry an audio signal, and monitors that have a DisplayPort input should have an audio output jack for you headphones/speakers/soundbar. Otherwise, you can get sound through your PC's audio outputs.

Since you'll be staring at a monitor whenever you use your new GPU, you'll want to take the time to figure out what you want from it. Here's a video that can give you more monitor info. Good luck.

Mr.Beep · Oct 21, 2019

Santini said:
Sure thing. It's easy to get lost in the weeds with monitors as there's no "perfect" one, as everyone's use cases are different.

In general, what FreeSync and G-SYNC do is eliminate stutters and screen tearing by keeping refresh rates in sync with a game's frame rate, which can rise and fall depending on the title. This makes your game play experience feel smooth, even if the action drops below 60fps on more demanding games. You also won't get the input lag normally associated with V-Sync.

tl;dr: a monitor that has FreeSync or G-SYNC featured is going to be better than one without it when it comes to gaming.

What monitor you want to get highly depends on what you want to do with it, as aside from high refresh rates and variable refresh rate tech like FreeSync and G-SYNC, there's the types of panels a monitor has. This is a deep dive you're going to want to explore before spending a cent, but in general, there are TN panels that are better for high refresh rate gaming (up to 240Hz), IPS panels that are better for professional photo/video editing work, and VA panels that are somewhere in the middle (or worse, depending on the quality).

Ultimately, each panel type has benefits and trade-offs (and come in different sizes), and which one will be the "best" for you is going to be a combination of your needs/wants and budget. But to go back to your question, if your wallet can afford it, get a high refresh rate monitor (greater than 60Hz) that has some sort of variable refresh rate tech like FreeSync/G-SYNC, in a panel type and size that meets your needs and budget.

Lastly, DisplayPort does carry an audio signal, and monitors that have a DisplayPort input should have an audio output jack for you headphones/speakers/soundbar. Otherwise, you can get sound through your PC's audio outputs.

Since you'll be staring at a monitor whenever you use your new GPU, you'll want to take the time to figure out what you want from it. Here's a video that can give you more monitor info. Good luck.

Again thank you so much for taking the time to write this up. A decade ago I'd get a good rig and buy a 1080p monitor and call it a day but things have changed quite a bit it seems. Just to confirm, since I'm using a Nvidia card, Freesync is useless unless it's listed in Nvidia compatibility list? (Also if a monitor is listed in the compatable list, would it be just as good at a native g-sync monitor).

Sorry, just trying to work out my budget after dropping $2000k AUD on a rig.

Santini · Oct 21, 2019

Mohsenix said:
I'm buying a Ryzen 5 3600 in a few months but I'm not sure if I have to upgrade my memory as well. They're pretty slow (2400Mhz) and I've heard AMD CPUs perform better with faster memories. So is it worth upgrading to 3200Mhz or 3600Mhz memories?

In general they do, but it also depends on the workload. If you had no RAM right now, for Ryzen I'd recommend buying whatever was the fastest, cheapest and of good quality DDR4-3000 and above memory as they all hover around the same price range. But since you have the sticks now, presuming you have the memory capacity you need, save your money until you feel the need to upgrade to faster RAM for whatever use case needs it.

Here's a TechPowerUp article on Zen 2 Memory Performance Scaling in which they use a 3900X.

For applications and gaming at 1080p, DDR4-3200 and DDR4-3600 are only 4.7%-5.0% better than DDR4-2400. This isn't much when looking at the FPS differences in the games they used. e.g., Battlefield V from 166.1 FPS at DDR4-2400 to 167.9 at DDR4-3200 and 172.0 FPS at DDR4-3600.

Ultimately, is ~5% performance difference worth spending the $60+ USD on 16GB of faster memory to you given that you already have RAM to use?

ss_lemonade · Oct 21, 2019

Mohsenix said:
I'm buying a Ryzen 5 3600 in a few months but I'm not sure if I have to upgrade my memory as well. They're pretty slow (2400Mhz) and I've heard AMD CPUs perform better with faster memories. So is it worth upgrading to 3200Mhz or 3600Mhz memories?

I know that my 3700x benches much better (one time, I forgot to re-enable my xmp profile for 3200 mhz after a bios updare and was wondering why I was scoring so much lower). Not sure how much that improves other tasks though like gaming.

Santini · Oct 21, 2019

Mr.Beep said:
Again thank you so much for taking the time to write this up. A decade ago I'd get a good rig and buy a 1080p monitor and call it a day but things have changed quite a bit it seems. Just to confirm, since I'm using a Nvidia card, Freesync is useless unless it's listed in Nvidia compatibility list? (Also if a monitor is listed in the compatable list, would it be just as good at a native g-sync monitor).

Sorry, just trying to work out my budget after dropping $2000k AUD on a rig.

If a monitor isn't on NVIDIA's list, it means that in their testing, they didn't certify it to be G-SYNC Compatible for some reason. That's why looking up owner reviews for whether non-listed monitors still work despite not being listed will be helpful, say if you see a great deal on a FreeSync display somewhere. Doing some legwork is absolutely important here. For example, there are new monitors (like the AOC 24G2, an inexpensive 24" 1080p/144Hz IPS panel), that aren't on NVIDIA's list, but reviewers have confirmed that G-SYNC works with it.

And in general, yes. FreeSync and G-SYNC will give you a solid variable refresh rate gaming experience whatever tech you decide to go with. Hardware-based G-SYNC does has some advantages versus FreeSync, going by what NVIDIA has to say about it, but keep in mind that hardware G-SYNC also has a premium attached that will add $100-200 USD to the cost.

Lastly, with a FreeSync monitor, you could use either an AMD or NVIDIA GPU (of course, this depends on the card and monitor), and the Xbox One S/X consoles can work with it as well. With G-SYNC, you're locked into only owning compatible NVIDIA GPUs.

Nostremitus · Oct 21, 2019

Bumrush said:
Do you guys expect the next generation of GPUs and CPUs (together) to be able to run 4K/60 at max settings with ray tracing? High end obviously.

Hope? Yes.

Expect? No.

Spinky · Oct 21, 2019

Ideally how much space should you be leaving free on an SSD, anyway? I have about 150 GB left on my 1 TB SSD right now.

catpurrcat · Oct 21, 2019

Spinky said:
Ideally how much space should you be leaving free on an SSD, anyway? I have about 150 GB left on my 1 TB SSD right now.

all I've ever heard are anecdotes that say 90% or higher.

So personally I doubt that's actually still the case, given the advances in the technology (particularly the controller)

SiG · Oct 21, 2019

Is the Spartex/HG OSMI compatible with Mini-DTX motherboards?

I'm thinking of pairing the OSMI with the Asus Crosshair VIII Impact.

I Don't Like · Oct 22, 2019

Bumrush said:
Do you guys expect the next generation of GPUs and CPUs (together) to be able to run 4K/60 at max settings with ray tracing? High end obviously.

When the next generation of GPUs come out the games they'll be able to play at 4K/60 with ray tracing will be older or just smaller titles with a limited implementation of RT. The big games will continue to become more and more demanding as usual and outpace the hardware.

Mohsenix · Oct 22, 2019

catpurrcat said:
Yes, 3200 is fine.

Santini said:
In general they do, but it also depends on the workload. If you had no RAM right now, for Ryzen I'd recommend buying whatever was the fastest, cheapest and of good quality DDR4-3000 and above memory as they all hover around the same price range. But since you have the sticks now, presuming you have the memory capacity you need, save your money until you feel the need to upgrade to faster RAM for whatever use case needs it.

Here's a TechPowerUp article on Zen 2 Memory Performance Scaling in which they use a 3900X.

For applications and gaming at 1080p, DDR4-3200 and DDR4-3600 are only 4.7%-5.0% better than DDR4-2400. This isn't much when looking at the FPS differences in the games they used. e.g., Battlefield V from 166.1 FPS at DDR4-2400 to 167.9 at DDR4-3200 and 172.0 FPS at DDR4-3600.

Ultimately, is ~5% performance difference worth spending the $60+ USD on 16GB of faster memory to you given that you already have RAM to use?

georaldc said:
I know that my 3700x benches much better (one time, I forgot to re-enable my xmp profile for 3200 mhz after a bios updare and was wondering why I was scoring so much lower). Not sure how much that improves other tasks though like gaming.

Appreciate the replies. I think I might hold off buying new RAM for now since I don't do a whole lot of gaming on my PC, I just wanted to make sure that the new Ryzen I'm gonna get has no serious problems in performance. I can live with a lower score and save the money for an SSD or something.

Nothing · Oct 22, 2019

scabobbs said:
The 2070 super is faster than the 5700xt which is likely a direct comparison to what will be in the next Xbox and PS5. Youll be more than fine at 1440p high refresh rate. Obviously frame rate depends on which games you're playing though. Extremely demanding games like Control, you may have to settle for 1440/80 or something.

Also this guy above not recommending Gsync is wild. I would never buy a new monitor without Gsync. I consider a high refresh monitor with Gsync the most mandatory purchase for high end pc gaming.

It certainly is amazing how we'll be getting $300 processors, $100+ SSDs, $400 GPUs, $60+ UHD optical drives, all sorts of other circuitry, ports, and a controller in the new console systems according to most people.

tbh I'll be shocked if the PS5 debuts at anything else besides $499.99. Anything else is incredibly more expensive according by consumer perception and Mark Cerny has already said they're not doing that and that it will be attractively priced. $399 is also absurdly low for the components they're offering. 8-core processors alone retail for $300+ currently. I imagine it's going to have under < 10 teraflops and provide less power than a GTX 1080 or an AMD 5700 or else the numbers simple don't add up.

No idea how people keep dreaming about $400-500+ graphics processors inside the new consoles. There's simply no way unless they're willing to takes hundreds of dollars of losses on each unit sold.

People seem to think they're going to be what is currently a $900-1000 build. Yes I'm well aware that they get special ordering, bulk discounts, and are willing to sell them at a slight loss intitially. I think the specs are going to be drastically lower than what people are currently expecting. More on the lines of an Intel 660p, a cutdown 5700 GPU, and a special 3700 with vastly lowered clocks. That will still cost a lot of cash.

People also seem to forget that the first thing they ALWAYS skimp on is hard drive. Which is why the SSD talk by Cerny has been sooo weird. I think they walk that one back and all we get are SATA SSDs. They're going to have to be at least 1TB! Just think how the cost of the machine is going to go up ~$50 for every 500gb of drive space they add. Probably more. We all have a good idea how much those cost. And it WILL be the go-to area to cost cut. Another likely scenario is that they'll have two models in the launch lineup in order to have one with higher storage.

scabobbs · Oct 22, 2019

Nothing said:
It certainly is amazing how we'll be getting $300 processors, $100+ SSDs, $400 GPUs, $60+ UHD optical drives, all sorts of other circuitry, ports, and a controller in the new console systems according to most people.

tbh I'll be shocked if the PS5 debuts at anything else besides $499.99. Anything else is incredibly more expensive according by consumer perception and Mark Cerny has already said they're not doing that and that it will be attractively priced. $399 is also absurdly low for the components they're offering. 8-core processors alone retail for $300+ currently. I imagine it's going to have under < 10 teraflops and provide less power than a GTX 1080 or an AMD 5700 or else the numbers simple don't add up.

No idea how people keep dreaming about $400-500+ graphics processors inside the new consoles. There's simply no way unless they're willing to takes hundreds of dollars of losses on each unit sold.

People seem to think they're going to be what is currently a $900-1000 build. Yes I'm well aware that they get special ordering, bulk discounts, and are willing to sell them at a slight loss intitially. I think the specs are going to be drastically lower than what people are currently expecting. More on the lines of an Intel 660p, a cutdown 5700 GPU, and a special 3700 with vastly lowered clocks. That will still cost a lot of cash.

People also seem to forget that the first thing they ALWAYS skimp on is hard drive. Which is why the SSD talk by Cerny has been sooo weird. I think they walk that one back and all we get are SATA SSDs. They're going to have to be at least 1TB! Just think how the cost of the machine is going to go up ~$50 for every 500gb of drive space they add. Probably more. We all have a good idea how much those cost. And it WILL be the go-to area to cost cut. Another likely scenario is that they'll have two models in the launch lineup in order to have one with higher storage.

Well, you're forgetting the key point here in that PS5 releases more than 1 year from today. Prices will come down on these parts over the next year as Nvidia and AMD have new cards coming next spring/summer that will put this hardware to shame. However I do agree with you, they'll be $499, there's no way around it unless they are willing to eat massive losses to get the systems off the ground.

SiG · Oct 22, 2019

I was thinking about going this route with my next rig. Yes, having 3 drives with a total of 10+TB for storage is overkill, but then again, with install sizes getting larger and larger I can't help but be paranoid. Plus I'm a data hoarder.

Storage aside, does anyone have any advise with this? I don't know if anyone has experience with the Alpenföhn Black Ridge 2nd revision low profile CPU cooler, and I'm thinking about pairing it with a Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM, but I was wondering if I could use an NF-A12x15 PWM instead. I was wondering if AIO solutions would also be viable for the OSMI.

Nothing · Oct 22, 2019

K.Jack said:
I have a CPU question for anyone to answer. Assuming they are both running at similar clockspeeds, and we are in a utopia where games are threaded and scaling perfectly, do you see any major pitfalls in choosing between 6 cores/12 threads and 8 cores/8 threads?

I'm trying to make a decision.

Nobody knows what the future holds but honestly any of the current processor lineups should be fine. Games shouldn't have a recommended specific amount of cores. The future console processors are going to be cutdown/reimagined, whatever you want to call it. Even the 6-thread 9600K makes up for it in clockspeeds.

Nothing · Oct 22, 2019

scabobbs said:
Well, you're forgetting the key point here in that PS5 releases more than 1 year from today. Prices will come down on these parts over the next year as Nvidia and AMD have new cards coming next spring/summer that will put this hardware to shame. However I do agree with you, they'll be $499, there's no way around it unless they are willing to eat massive losses to get the systems off the ground.

I'm not forgetting anything. I don't know why that is always the go-to response lol (re; contract wholesale costs going down next year) every time it comes up. (not trying to argue or pick on you specifically, sorry. I can take your name off the first reply.)

I've already demonstrated how the current supposed parts list adds up to at least double their target selling price. Prices aren't going to come down that significantly. They also have to buy all this stuff in the spring to go into mass production by then. That's just several months away.

The reason why it's so interesting is that I just don't see how the numbers add up under any circumstance. I'm almost certain that Sony and MS are going to under-deliver compared to wide expectations, but I don't think that level of performance hinders anything. Most people talkin like they're going to match ~$1100+ Ryzen 3700X + 5700 XT builds; their expectations are crazy.

scabobbs · Oct 22, 2019

K.Jack said:
I have a CPU question for anyone to answer. Assuming they are both running at similar clockspeeds, and we are in a utopia where games are threaded and scaling perfectly, do you see any major pitfalls in choosing between 6 cores/12 threads and 8 cores/8 threads?

I'm trying to make a decision.

Modern games don't tend to gain much benefit from the extra threads. Always prefer more physical cores or more speed when buying a CPU, logical cores just aren't that impactful on the performance end... at least not yet.

If you're simply buying for gaming, the 9700k would be what I'd recommend. Overclock it to 4.8 or 4.9 whatever it can get to and you'll crush the 3600x/3700x in gaming performance.

Nothing · Oct 22, 2019

Theswweet said:
Get a 3700x, king. Don't get a 9700k.

because reasons.

Mr.Beep · Oct 22, 2019

Wait has there been any insider talks about next gen consoles going Ryzen 5 3600 + 5600 XT... that would be insane for the cost.

Evolution of Metal · Oct 22, 2019

Nothing said:
tbh I'll be shocked if the PS5 debuts at anything else besides $499.99. Anything else is incredibly more expensive according by consumer perception and Mark Cerny has already said they're not doing that and that it will be attractively priced. $399 is also absurdly low for the components they're offering. 8-core processors alone retail for $300+ currently. I imagine it's going to have under < 10 teraflops and provide less power than a GTX 1080 or an AMD 5700 or else the numbers simple don't add up.

2700 is going around $170 clearing the stock.

AMD has mentioned that 7mm costs less to produce, so the volume price of that 8-core CPU in Playstation 5 might be super low compared to the PC part. Both Sony and MS must be feeling lucky that AMD managed to sort their shit when it comes to pricing, power consumption and IPC just before the next-gen.

SiG said:
I was thinking about going this route with my next rig. Yes, having 3 drives with a total of 10+TB for storage is overkill, but then again, with install sizes getting larger and larger I can't help but be paranoid. Plus I'm a data hoarder.

Storage aside, does anyone have any advise with this? I don't know if anyone has experience with the Alpenföhn Black Ridge 2nd revision low profile CPU cooler, and I'm thinking about pairing it with a Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM, but I was wondering if I could use an NF-A12x15 PWM instead. I was wondering if AIO solutions would also be viable for the OSMI.

You are paying massive premium and creating a dead-end expansion path going with this super mini build. Do you really need that form factor so much? You are also going to suffer noise because components will spin faster to compensate for low airflow/lack of fans.

Is it worth it?

Mohsenix said:
I'm buying a Ryzen 5 3600 in a few months but I'm not sure if I have to upgrade my memory as well. They're pretty slow (2400Mhz) and I've heard AMD CPUs perform better with faster memories. So is it worth upgrading to 3200Mhz or 3600Mhz memories?

Depends. Some games you will see 15% increase in performance, others not so much. If you have 16GB of memory, it is a waste to replace it. I think you are better off saving it, or pumping the money into 3700X.

If you aren't targeting 144hz, RAM speed is irrelevant.

SiG · Oct 22, 2019

Evolution of Metal said:
You are paying massive premium and creating a dead-end expansion path going with this super mini build. Do you really need that form factor so much? You are also going to suffer noise because components will spin faster to compensate for low airflow/lack of fans.

Is it worth it?

Considering how much I love my ITX build, yes. Dead-end expansion is a no brainer, since I like PC building to be one-and-done deals as opposed to constant tinkering and upgrading. (More time actually spent on the computing part, so to speak.)

Airflow should also not be a problem with the OSMI given its orientation. I don't know if you're an Mini-ITX builder and just a regular ATX/full-tower kinda person, but after experiencing the ITX life there's no turning back for me. I like to keep my rigs small, powerful, and it's free real estate.

Flounder · Oct 22, 2019

Do you think I screwed up in my choice of RAM? Long story short, finally built my new PC and games were crashing regularly (CTD only). After troubleshooting, ran MemTest86 and discovered my RAM was unstable. Lowered my DRAM Frequency to 3000MHz and it is perferctly stable now, no errors in MemTest86 or Windows Memory Diagnostic.

I've seen other similar builds as mine that are stable at 3200MHz, I checked the i9 spec and it mentions it only supports DDR4 at 2666MHz:

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/processors/core/i9-processors/i9-9900k.html

Is the 2666MHz in the spec just conservative or are higher frequencies not suited to my i9?

CPU:
Intel® Core™ i9 Eight Core Processor i9-9900K

GPU:
11GB ASUS ROG STRIX GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti

RAM:
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 8GB)

MoBo:
ASUS® ROG STRIX Z390-F GAMING

PSU:
CORSAIR 650W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET

Case:
FRACTAL DEFINE R6 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE

CPU Cooler:
Noctua NH-U14S Ultra Quiet Performance CPU Cooler

NOKYARD · Oct 22, 2019

SiG said:
does anyone have any advise with this? I don't know if anyone has experience with the Alpenföhn Black Ridge 2nd revision low profile CPU cooler, and I'm thinking about pairing it with a Noctua NF-A9x14 PWM, but I was wondering if I could use an NF-A12x15 PWM instead.

120m fans interfere with memory slots with that cooler. You would need VLP memory which tops out at 2666Mhz.

[edit] Noctua makes a black NH-L9i now.

SiG · Oct 22, 2019

NOKYARD said:
[edit] Noctua makes a black NH-L9i now.

That was going to be my initial go to, but apparently the Alpenföhn Black Ridge v2 has actually been rivalling Noctua in terms of performance, at least for the cooler partof things (They still recommend substituting the included fan with one of Noctua's):

laxu · Oct 22, 2019

Bumrush said:
Do you guys expect the next generation of GPUs and CPUs (together) to be able to run 4K/60 at max settings with ray tracing? High end obviously.

I'd say no, if the raytracing is the level of stuff you see in say Control with multiple raytracing techniques combined. If you consider that game runs at about 20 fps in 4K with everything enabled then at best I would imagine we might get something like double the raytracing performance for 40 fps. I don't know if it scales that linearly by just throwing more RT cores on. There might be some driver, API etc level optimizations that can be done too.

With raytracing it will be better to combine upscaling and reconstruction techniques like DLSS with sharpen filters etc to get the performance up. I really wish we could get arbitrary resolution DLSS support in the future so I can use my super ultrawide 5120x1440 properly in games. I had to play Control at 3840x1080 with sharpen filter because DLSS was not supported. I think it looked good and the wider aspect ratio was more important to me than perfect image sharpness.

Evolution of Metal · Oct 22, 2019

Flounder said:
Do you think I screwed up in my choice of RAM? Long story short, finally built my new PC and games were crashing regularly (CTD only). After troubleshooting, ran MemTest86 and discovered my RAM was unstable. Lowered my DRAM Frequency to 3000MHz and it is perferctly stable now, no errors in MemTest86 or Windows Memory Diagnostic.

I've seen other similar builds as mine that are stable at 3200MHz, I checked the i9 spec and it mentions it only supports DDR4 at 2666MHz:

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/processors/core/i9-processors/i9-9900k.html

Is the 2666MHz in the spec just conservative or are higher frequencies not suited to my i9?

You can try to increase RAM voltage to 1.4 or 1.42. It is still safe and no issues running daily, but Vengeance RAM is sold at every possible speed, you are pretty much buying the highest stable OC on 1.35v when you buy 3200 CL16 Vengeance memory. You just got a little unlucky that either RAM, or your config isn't delivering that OC @ 1.35v.

laxu · Oct 22, 2019

Flounder said:
Do you think I screwed up in my choice of RAM? Long story short, finally built my new PC and games were crashing regularly (CTD only). After troubleshooting, ran MemTest86 and discovered my RAM was unstable. Lowered my DRAM Frequency to 3000MHz and it is perferctly stable now, no errors in MemTest86 or Windows Memory Diagnostic.

I've seen other similar builds as mine that are stable at 3200MHz, I checked the i9 spec and it mentions it only supports DDR4 at 2666MHz:

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/processors/core/i9-processors/i9-9900k.html

Is the 2666MHz in the spec just conservative or are higher frequencies not suited to my i9?

Just because official spec doesn't support it doesn't mean it won't work. Usually just enabling XMP will allow the memory to run at its advertised settings. You could try just turning XMP on and increasing memory voltage a little bit to see if that makes it stable in case your particular motherboard drops it too low or something.

On my 3 year old 6600K rig I ran 3000 MHz memory at 3200 no problem.

laxu · Oct 22, 2019

SiG said:
Considering how much I love my ITX build, yes. Dead-end expansion is a no brainer, since I like PC building to be one-and-done deals as opposed to constant tinkering and upgrading. (More time actually spent on the computing part, so to speak.)

Airflow should also not be a problem with the OSMI given its orientation. I don't know if you're an Mini-ITX builder and just a regular ATX/full-tower kinda person, but after experiencing the ITX life there's no turning back for me. I like to keep my rigs small, powerful, and it's free real estate.

I've never quite understood how they save any space at all unless you plan to put it in a livingroom shelf or something. A bigger case is just going to be vertically larger and its added depth goes right under the desk. I don't see much need for full tower cases anymore unless you want to cram massive watercooling radiators in or have a huge pack of mechanical drives but something so small that you have to carefully plan for mounting, cabling and airflow seems like going too far in the other direction as well.

Lakeside · Oct 22, 2019

laxu said:
I've never quite understood how they save any space at all unless you plan to put it in a livingroom shelf or something. A bigger case is just going to be vertically larger and its added depth goes right under the desk. I don't see much need for full tower cases anymore unless you want to cram massive watercooling radiators in or have a huge pack of mechanical drives but something so small that you have to carefully plan for mounting, cabling and airflow seems like going too far in the other direction as well.

A lot of us do put them in the living room with the TV. Aside from that though, the challenge of the build is enjoyable.

I know some people put them behind their monitor.

Flounder · Oct 22, 2019

Evolution of Metal said:
You can try to increase RAM voltage to 1.4 or 1.42. It is still safe and no issues running daily, but Vengeance RAM is sold at every possible speed, you are pretty much buying the highest stable OC on 1.35v when you buy 3200 CL16 Vengeance memory. You just got a little unlucky that either RAM, or your config isn't delivering that OC @ 1.35v.

laxu said:
Just because official spec doesn't support it doesn't mean it won't work. Usually just enabling XMP will allow the memory to run at its advertised settings. You could try just turning XMP on and increasing memory voltage a little bit to see if that makes it stable in case your particular motherboard drops it too low or something.

On my 3 year old 6600K rig I ran 3000 MHz memory at 3200 no problem.

Thanks guys, I'll try increasing the voltage a bit, not sure if the extra 200MHz is going to be worth the hassle though.

I wasn't sure if XMP is enabled in BIOS or not, not really used to these new fangled BIOS's. I'll look into that too.

SiG · Oct 22, 2019

laxu said:
I've never quite understood how they save any space at all unless you plan to put it in a livingroom shelf or something. A bigger case is just going to be vertically larger and its added depth goes right under the desk.

That is exactly my plan for this next rig. It should fit into a livingroom shelf, much like a game console. But it can also turn the TV into a workstation/console recorder/4KBluRay player*/couch net surfing device. It does everything that the big boy PCs can, just in a smaller box. Micro ATX just doesn't cut it these days.

Lakeside said:
A lot of us do put them in the living room with the TV. Aside from that though, the challenge of the build is enjoyable.

I know some people put them behind their monitor.

*I still can't find a slimloading OOD that does 4KBD.

GameAddict411 · Oct 22, 2019

K.Jack said:
I have a CPU question for anyone to answer. Assuming they are both running at similar clockspeeds, and we are in a utopia where games are threaded and scaling perfectly, do you see any major pitfalls in choosing between 6 cores/12 threads and 8 cores/8 threads?

I'm trying to make a decision.

Physical cores will always be better then hyperthreaded CPUs with less physical cores. Games favor high clock speed over multithreading, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

maped · Oct 22, 2019

Lakeside said:
A lot of us do put them in the living room with the TV. Aside from that though, the challenge of the build is enjoyable.

I know some people put them behind their monitor.

This is it for me, I've been on a ITX board for 8 years on my main machine and I don't feel I've had to give up anything to be able to do it. It definately has taken extra time to check compatibility and find ways to keep it small and quiet and looking for new exotic parts to get it to do what I want and need, but for me that's half the fun. At the moment I've got Ryzen 3600/GTX1080, 10Gb networking, 500Gb M.2 ssd and 6Tb ssd-tiered storage for games that I can comfortably fit in a 10 liter water cooled cube once I get the time to actually build it in a case. I don't feel I'm especially wanting for upgrades at the moment, next thing to tempt me would be a motherboard with integrated 10Gb lan and PCIE4.0.

Lakeside · Oct 22, 2019

SiG said:
That is exactly my plan for this next rig. It should fit into a livingroom shelf, much like a game console. But it can also turn the TV into a workstation/console recorder/4KBluRay player*/couch net surfing device. It does everything that the big boy PCs can, just in a smaller box. Micro ATX just doesn't cut it these days.

*I still can't find a slimloading OOD that does 4KBD.

I wound up going with an external enclosure that isn't ugly so that's on my shelf.

SiG · Oct 22, 2019

Lakeside said:
A lot of us do put them in the living room with the TV. Aside from that though, the challenge of the build is enjoyable.

I know some people put them behind their monitor.

Lakeside said:
I wound up going with an external enclosure that isn't ugly so that's on my shelf.

There have been some really nice looking Mini ITX cases post-2015. That old Cooler Master Elite 110 or Thermaltake Core V1 look no longer applies nowawdays, unless you're really constrained on a budget (at which point a prebuilt might be a better investment, and even those have taken up a small, appealing form factor casings).

I was actually strongly considering the InWin A1 (Plus) due to its sexy case design, but it lacked a way to mount an optical drive (though I guess just running those things off external are the way to do things now...). Other runner ups include the Sentry and other "Node 202-likes"
but I kinda wanted something more squat and square this time around. The InWin was the closest to looking like the Mac G4Cube but better cooled, but the OSMI does look really sexy for being a box with a ventilation slot on top and bottom, along with a disk loading slot near the grill.

Then of course there's the Skyreach S4 mini but that's a whole 'nother level of dedication, requiring a special power supply (HDPLEX 400), precise measurements, etc. That's when you upgrade your skills from making a just a simple computer to making a timepiece.

Chessguy1 · Oct 22, 2019

Chessguy1 said:
thanks for the reply. i tried pressing the cooler manually since i still have my case open but it didn't make a difference (didnt expect to tbh). i tried to get it as tight as possible because it was really loose the first time i installed it, but that didn't work. i, too noticed, the pressure wasn't the best with their bracket. made sure everything is up to date.

I think i'll just start searching for another cooler around $30 and if that doesn't fix it, i'll just live with the temps i guess. shrug.

edit: ordered this :p the "quiet" fan curve on my bios motherboard for the cpu fan is still loud as hell so i wanted to fix that too

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZYB8K77/

update on my 3600x hitting 90c on prime95.

no real change after installing the mugen (on prime95), must be too much voltage, PBO or something. temperatures do seem a bit better though, maybe 5-10 degrees in games/idles, just not while running prime95. there are many examples of people hitting 90c on a 3600x and using brand new AIO so idk.

in gaming, my CPU doesn't get anywhere near 90, more like 65-70 so i'm not too worried guess. in everything but the worst benchmark, it's great. even transcoding in handbrake doesn't get too hot either.

also, glad i saved $30 and went with an mATX board. i literally lost nothing except more PCie slots, feel like more people should recommend mATX.

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