The PC Builders Thread ("I Need a New PC") v2

Страна Мечты · Aug 14, 2018

May my stupidity serve as a cautionary tale for others.

The new ryzen master 1.4 released this week with the 'rippers and it's new PBO setting confirmed what i suspected for some time.
Cheaper motherboards hold back fast CPUs. It seems that either gigabyte or AMD know that the "ultra gaming"'s VRM are crap, so they heavily limit the amperage parameter as a precaution.

Do not pair a 2700x with a 140$ motherboard, that's just sad!

Note: voltage peak is because of poor LLC, which gigabyte doesn't let you change.
Note2: not shown, overvoltage on memory because i otherwise bluescreen on supported memory.

tommyv2 · Aug 14, 2018

Coulomb_Barrier said:
The 9900K will be about 7-9% faster than the 2700X in gaming and that's only when benching using a 1080 Ti @ 1080p.

Well, let's not spread misinformation here. 7-9% faster in Average or Maximum framerates, not Minimums or 99th percentile. Who cares if your average framerate is 350fps when it drops to 39fps every time you turn a corner? Good reviews point this out, and that's where Ryzen falters. You're better off getting a cheap Intel i5 8400 for gaming than the best Ryzen for that reason.

Hironobu Sakaguchi · Aug 14, 2018

Страна Мечты said:
I don't know any that have an RS-232 port if that's what you need.

i have the same monitor , but i find it difficult to have 2 monitors at the same time , so i wanted one have most of the ports so i dont need to use the old one
to be specific i need :
component
composite
vga
hdmi
and if there's audio in port it'd be good

i dont need anything else

Coulomb_Barrier · Aug 14, 2018

thomasjast said:
Well, let's not spread misinformation here. 7-9% faster in Average or Maximum framerates, not Minimums or 99th percentile. Who cares if your average framerate is 350fps when it drops to 39fps every time you turn a corner? Good reviews point this out, and that's where Ryzen falters. You're better off getting a cheap Intel i5 8400 for gaming than the best Ryzen for that reason.

Complete nonsense. Average fps is how CPU gaming performance has been judged for over a decade. Now that Ryzen 2nd gen is very, very close to Intel's fastest gaming CPUs in this metric, suddenly we need to look at minimum FPS and 99th percentile, and deem that 1 extra dropped frame for a fraction of a second occuring every few minutes is catastrophic, so Ryzen is 'not good for gaming'...don't be absurd.

Also, high-end CPUs like the 2700X and 9900K will be used with monitors above 1080p, and in 1440p and 4K gaming, you're most certainly not getting '350 fps' so average FPS there is absolutely crucial metric for performance, so that's another silly point.

tommyv2 · Aug 14, 2018

Coulomb_Barrier said:
Complete nonsense. Average fps is how CPU gaming performance has been judged for over a decade. Now that Ryzen 2nd gen is very, very close to Intel's fastest gaming CPUs in this metric, suddenly we need to look at minimum FPS and 99th percentile, and deem that 1 extra dropped frame for a fraction of a second occuring every few minutes is catastrophic, so Ryzen is 'not good for gaming'...don't be absurd.

Also, high-end CPUs like the 2700X and 9900K will be used with monitors above 1080p, and in 1440p and 4K gaming, you're most certainly not getting '350 fps' so average FPS there is absolutely crucial metric for performance, so that's another silly point.

I don't understand why someone wouldn't buy the best CPU for gaming if they intend to game on it. The prices aren't that far off. Both Intel and AMD make cheap CPUs and $2000 CPUs, so buy the one that does the intended task the best. Besides Intel being on ringbus topology for their mainstream line, they support insane RAM speeds. I'm running 4266 memory, and you'd better believe that makes a difference in gaming frametimes. It's a shame AMD doesn't have that, because their mesh topology is very memory-sensitive and would benefit from it.

Coulomb_Barrier · Aug 14, 2018

thomasjast said:
I don't understand why someone wouldn't buy the best CPU for gaming if they intend to game on it. The prices aren't that far off. Both Intel and AMD make cheap CPUs and $2000 CPUs, so buy the one that does the intended task the best. Besides Intel being on ringbus topology for their mainstream line, they support insane RAM speeds. I'm running 4266 memory, and you'd better believe that makes a difference in gaming frametimes. It's a shame AMD doesn't have that, because their mesh topology is very memory-sensitive and would benefit from it.

There's this thing called price. In many cases, Ryzen's can't be beat. That's the reason there is like 9 different Ryzen builds in the OP and only 4 Intel ones.

opticalmace · Aug 14, 2018

Coulomb_Barrier said:
Complete nonsense. Average fps is how CPU gaming performance has been judged for over a decade. Now that Ryzen 2nd gen is very, very close to Intel's fastest gaming CPUs in this metric, suddenly we need to look at minimum FPS and 99th percentile, and deem that 1 extra dropped frame for a fraction of a second occuring every few minutes is catastrophic, so Ryzen is 'not good for gaming'...don't be absurd.

Also, high-end CPUs like the 2700X and 9900K will be used with monitors above 1080p, and in 1440p and 4K gaming, you're most certainly not getting '350 fps' so average FPS there is absolutely crucial metric for performance, so that's another silly point.

Not nonsense at all. People have been examining frametimes since 2011 (https://techreport.com/review/21516/inside-the-second-a-new-look-at-game-benchmarking), and it's an important part of the equation. I have no opinion on the Ryzen parts (AFAIK the 2000 series are pretty damn good for gaming), but FPS as a singular metric is well outdated now.

edit: in case you're gonna call me biased, I'm posting this from my Ryzen 1700 rig...

tommyv2 · Aug 14, 2018

opticalmace said:
Not nonsense at all. People have been examining frametimes since 2011 (https://techreport.com/review/21516/inside-the-second-a-new-look-at-game-benchmarking), and it's an important part of the equation. I have no opinion on the Ryzen parts (AFAIK the 2000 series are pretty damn good for gaming), but FPS as a singular metric is well outdated now.

edit: in case you're gonna call me biased, I'm posting this from my Ryzen 1700 rig...

No, that's fine, I'm not calling anyone biased. It all depends on your standards and budget. If every CPU was the same price, you'd always choose the "best" one. Likewise, when price is no object, it's the same deal. I just know that when people spends hundreds/thousands on a system and still get framedrops <60fps and things microstutter, they likely mis-chose a single component that could've been fixed with a little more research.

Edit: replied to wrong person. Your link to the frametime metric is great.

opticalmace · Aug 14, 2018

thomasjast said:
No, that's fine, I'm not calling anyone biased. It all depends on your standards and budget. If every CPU was the same price, you'd always choose the "best" one. Likewise, when price is no object, it's the same deal. I just know that when people spends hundreds/thousands on a system and still get framedrops <60fps and things microstutter, they likely mis-chose a single component that could've been fixed with a little more research.

Edit: replied to wrong person. Your link to the frametime metric is great.

Yeah you confused me there for a minute. :lol

Soda · Aug 14, 2018

Coulomb_Barrier said:
There's this thing called price. In many cases, Ryzen's can't be beat. That's the reason there is like 9 different Ryzen builds in the OP and only 4 Intel ones.

We can always add more Intel builds if people want to put them together, but I've tried to be relatively unbiased and put together fair builds at each price point. I was on Intel (2500k) before I swapped to AMD (Ryzen 1700) last year, so I'm relatively platform agnostic. I know you aren't saying that we need more Intel builds, but I'm just saying, I'm happy to add more if we see a need for them, in which case I may just put them as two separate lists (Intel as one and AMD as the other).

Eggiem · Aug 14, 2018

Страна Мечты said:
May my stupidity serve as a cautionary tale for others.

The new ryzen master 1.4 released this week with the 'rippers and it's new PBO setting confirmed what i suspected for some time.
Cheaper motherboards hold back fast CPUs. It seems that either gigabyte or AMD know that the "ultra gaming"'s VRM are crap, so they heavily limit the amperage parameter as a precaution.

Do not pair a 2700x with a 140$ motherboard, that's just sad!

Note: voltage peak is because of poor LLC, which gigabyte doesn't let you change.
Note2: not shown, overvoltage on memory because i otherwise bluescreen on supported memory.

What motherboard should I buy instead? Would like to use an ASUS mobo. The ROG Strix x470f gaming maybe?

ObbyDent · Aug 14, 2018

I'm looking for a build that can do a little bit of everything. Gaming, high end emulation, and most importantly, video editing in 4k.

1) I don't know the price point to effectively do all of these so I'll throw out $1500. Let me know if that's too much or too little for my ask.
2) Gaming in 1080p, high end emulation like Dolphin and PSCX2, and most importantly 4k video editing. My current setup is a bit too slow with larger projects.
3) buying within the next month
4) I'm buying everything from aceatch
5) I wouldn't mind recommendations for a monitor, keyboard and mouse.
6) I'm not interested in overlocking

Страна Мечты · Aug 14, 2018

Eggiem said:
What motherboard should I buy instead? Would like to use an ASUS mobo. The ROG Strix x470f gaming maybe?

I guess, i just wanna remind people that they cut a lot of corners, especially in the cheaper ones with the decieving names.

Buildzoid's criticism also puts some of the blame on lazy techblogs and reviews, who just rate the equipment by counting the inductors, ports and how many blinking lights they have.

Soda · Aug 14, 2018

ObbyDent said:
I'm looking for a build that can do a little bit of everything. Gaming, high end emulation, and most importantly, video editing in 4k.

1) I don't know the price point to effectively do all of these so I'll throw out $1500. Let me know if that's too much or too little for my ask.
2) Gaming in 1080p, high end emulation like Dolphin and PSCX2, and most importantly 4k video editing. My current setup is a bit too slow with larger projects.
3) buying within the next month
4) I'm buying everything from aceatch
5) I wouldn't mind recommendations for a monitor, keyboard and mouse.
6) I'm not interested in overlocking

iirc, high-end emulation relies mainly on high single-threaded performance, which would have me suggest the 8700k to you. The 8700k is also the top gaming CPU, especially at 1080p. On the other hand, video editing may see a bit more of an edge from the Ryzen 2700X. It's a bit of a toss-up, but I'd suggest you go for the 8700k, or if that won't work for your budget, the Ryzen 2700 or 2700X would be the close second choices.

$1,500 should get you pretty close. I'm not familiar with the GPU needs for high-end emulation, but I'm pretty confident it's more of a CPU-limited thing than GPU-limited, though maybe someone else has more insight into that. With that in mind, it depends on how much you spend on the monitor/keyboard/mouse. Are you buying a 4K monitor? That'll eat a lot into your budget if so.

Страна Мечты · Aug 14, 2018

Soda said:
$1,500 should get you pretty close. I'm not familiar with the GPU needs for high-end emulation, but I'm pretty confident it's more of a CPU-limited thing than GPU-limited, though maybe someone else has more insight into that. With that in mind, it depends on how much you spend on the monitor/keyboard/mouse. Are you buying a 4K monitor? That'll eat a lot into your budget if so.

PSCX2 uses openGL which seems to mesh better with nvidia modules, Dolphin uses Vulkan if memory serves me well, that's probably a tie-to-slight advantage for Vega.

TheMadTitan · Aug 14, 2018

So, last month, after assembling my build, I realized that my mobo didn't come with an I/O shield. Contacted Gigabyte, who went immediately silent as I knew they would, so I went and bought shield off of ebay. 3746 million weeks later, the I/O shield arrives from China, but they sent me the wrong one.

That's on top of it being bent when it arrived, but that's something easy to deal with; I just bent it back lol. But it not having the correct cutouts is an issue. Anyone have any recommendations on where I can get an aftermarket I/O shield sent to me from somewhere closer to North America? Given that it took damn near three weeks for me to get this, I'm sure it's going to take the same amount of time for me to get a refund processed on it and another sent back, and I'd rather not be out out an I/O shield for three months.

Charsace · Aug 14, 2018

Eggiem said:
What motherboard should I buy instead? Would like to use an ASUS mobo. The ROG Strix x470f gaming maybe?

This is what I got recently because the $140 msi pro carbon was bad. Ruined ram when I tried to overclock it and had USB ports die. The ROG Strix is much better so far.

Eggiem · Aug 14, 2018

Страна Мечты said:
I guess, i just wanna remind people that they cut a lot of corners, especially in the cheaper ones with the decieving names.

Buildzoid's criticism also puts some of the blame on lazy techblogs and reviews, who just rate the equipment by counting the inductors, ports and how many blinking lights they have.

Charsace said:
This is what I got recently because the $140 msi pro carbon was bad. Ruined ram when I tried to overclock it and had USB ports die. The ROG Strix is much better so far.

Ok. Guess I will go with Asus for my next build then. Thanks!

TekNihn · Aug 14, 2018

poptire said:
I know it's impossible to future proof but how long will my Ryzen 5 1600, 16gb ram, 1060 6gb comp be relevant? The i3 I've been using for 5 years still chugs along but started showing its age at year 2.

It looks pretty good. I'd give it about 3 or 4 years before you would need to upgrade. Seems like all new hardware lasts around 5 years before needing to be upgraded in my experience. It also depends what games you're playing and how optimized these games are, but your setup looks alright.

TekNihn · Aug 14, 2018

samyy said:
Hi guys - I'm trying to build my first PC, a very simple WoW, Civ 6 and potentially Fortnite machine. I've been toying around with something like this:

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/B4Nytg

Just wanted to get any comments/ suggestions. I'm probably going to put in a basic graphics card down the line as well.

Without a graphics card I think it's going to be hard to run all that even on very low settings. But I did play WoW on an old Pentium 4 and got stable 30fps at low quality. I would highly recommend buying a GPU, your best bet would be a 1050ti, you can find one online for $150 or less. Maybe an older card would work fine too, like a 260x. Depends on your priorities of performance vs quality.

Nostremitus · Aug 14, 2018

TekNihn said:
Without a graphics card I think it's going to be hard to run all that even on very low settings. But I did play WoW on an old Pentium 4 and got stable 30fps at low quality. I would highly recommend buying a GPU, your best bet would be a 1050ti, you can find one online for $150 or less. Maybe an older card would work fine too, like a 260x. Depends on your priorities of performance vs quality.

It's not horrible for a cheap Fortnite machine and they can always upgrade the GPU later when they have more funds.

Faster RAM would give better performance than the 1600MHz used in the video below.

Chaosblade · Aug 14, 2018

Probably an odd thing to bring up, but does anyone have any specific recommendations for good mouse feet? Specifically I have an old Logitech MX518 I'd rather repair than replace. I see several on ebay but I have no idea if they are any good.

ObbyDent · Aug 14, 2018

Soda said:
iirc, high-end emulation relies mainly on high single-threaded performance, which would have me suggest the 8700k to you. The 8700k is also the top gaming CPU, especially at 1080p. On the other hand, video editing may see a bit more of an edge from the Ryzen 2700X. It's a bit of a toss-up, but I'd suggest you go for the 8700k, or if that won't work for your budget, the Ryzen 2700 or 2700X would be the close second choices.

$1,500 should get you pretty close. I'm not familiar with the GPU needs for high-end emulation, but I'm pretty confident it's more of a CPU-limited thing than GPU-limited, though maybe someone else has more insight into that. With that in mind, it depends on how much you spend on the monitor/keyboard/mouse. Are you buying a 4K monitor? That'll eat a lot into your budget if so.

Ah gotcha. So it's basically a question of which I want to focus on more.

I won't be investing in a 4k monitor yet.

Bootador · Aug 14, 2018

Probably a stupid question but what makes a good motherboard. If I'm not planning on overclocking but looking at a high end build what should I be looking for aside from compatability? Audio codec quality?

Vulcano's Assistant · Aug 14, 2018

Bootador said:
Probably a stupid question but what makes a good motherboard. If I'm not planning on overclocking but looking at a high end build what should I be looking for aside from compatability? Audio codec quality?

In terms of performance:

Even without manual overclock, the type of features that overclockers look on a board do help with high end CPUs because they have turbo boost features and more cores nowadays.
As Страна Мечты has been pointing out, motherboards that cheapen out on the voltage regulation components can hamper the performance of hungry processors.
There is the BIOS quality as well on that equation, like auto voltages being less optimized from factory so updates are rolled out later
Better voltage regulation makes a better performing and less hot motherboard.

In terms of features:
Other than the chipset, there's ports, slots, wifi, software, and also on board components like the clear CMOS button that add convenience.

A Mobo is only good for you if it has the ports and slots you need, and smarter software can simplify fan control, or lighting control if that's your thing.

Right · Aug 14, 2018

A general question, in what use cases would quad-channel memory be significantly faster than dual-channel memory? All the benchmark I've seen seems to indicate that there's little real world difference. Would it matter if I'm considering running 1~2 VMs alongside a game?

VlaudTheImpaler · Aug 14, 2018

Lakeside said:
Thanks for the consideration. With pain and disability as a motivator, my shopping will probably be colored by the money is no object perspective, so I don't think my research will be useful. I'll give it a bit of thought though.

Also appreciate the well wishes. The whole thing started in Feb/March and I'm doing what I can trying to avoid the knife, but consulting with surgeons and such just in case. Take care of your backs kids. Most of mine was there from a young (20's) age, just waiting for father time to bring it to the forefront.

Yo, if you ever want some advice on back issues feel free to hit me up. I slipped a disk 6 years ago and it was a really, really long road to recovery. Initially we lost everything we had. Everything.

I've had to rearrange my entire life and how I do things and my wife and I even switched roles as earners and such. It's been a whole lot of trial and error figuring things out and what works best but I'm now back in much better shape than I was before the injury and because of the healthy choices and habits I now have I can do far more than I use to with no surgery or shots involved even though that's what was suggested, by the many, many, many, professional spinal specialists we drove around the state to see. None of which, btw, found the core of the issue with my back, a pinched nerve, that I only had confirmed later by visiting a licensed chiropractor. I had always thought there was a pinched nerve or something halfway up my back and even though I told all the other "specialists" about it, none of them found or even acknowledged it, saying that since the machines couldn't see it then it wasn't there and just wanting to give me an injection...

Well I was at my last straw and decided to try something different and take a chance with a chiropractor. I decided not to tell the chiropractor anything because I wanted to see if he was legit. I just went in and told him about my back pain and he went over every single one of my vertebrae and immediately said that I had a slipped disc in my L4 lower lumbar and a pinched nerve in my T9 (mid back). I was blown away. It's been a journey though and there are many little things that can help. Anyway, I'd be more than happy to use the knowledge I've gathered over the years to answer anybody's questions who are dealing with back pain and hopefully help save someone some potential pain and money.

I will say this without any hesitation though. If you have a gaming chair. Throw it in the trash. Please don't pass along that potential agony to some other poor sop. Save the money and buy a nice ergonomic chair. I can't recommend Herman miller enough. Even though they are pricey, they have mind blowing customer service and a lifetime warranty on nearly all of their higher priced products. They will literally come to your house if you need any type of maintenance or repair free of charge. I was lucky enough to be gifted an embody chair and oh my goodness what a difference it is making. See, over the years after my back injury (and several other issues arising) I lost the curve in my spine. I got to a point where I couldn't keep up with chiro payments and such on top of the other medical bills and so I'd just fight through the pain that my straight spine and racer gaming chair was causing me. After getting this chair, at first it felt so weird and even a tiny bit uncomfortable at times (nothing compared to the hell of my gaming chair) sitting in it with my straight spine because of the way it is shaped. We saved enough and started a chiro plan to put the curve back in my back and this chair has been a lifesaver.

I also have a really cheap but functional sit stand setup using vesa mounts, bars and arms along with a laptop lap stand that I place on my desk for my keyboard and mouse whenever I want to stand. This has also been immensely helpful. I could post pictures if anyone is interested.

Nothing · Aug 14, 2018

thomasjast said:
I don't understand why someone wouldn't buy the best CPU for gaming if they intend to game on it. The prices aren't that far off. Both Intel and AMD make cheap CPUs and $2000 CPUs, so buy the one that does the intended task the best. Besides Intel being on ringbus topology for their mainstream line, they support insane RAM speeds. I'm running 4266 memory, and you'd better believe that makes a difference in gaming frametimes. It's a shame AMD doesn't have that, because their mesh topology is very memory-sensitive and would benefit from it.

because Intel CPUs cost a fuckton more and some of us are on a limited budget.

A Ryzen 5 2600 is only 150 bucks and it's $30 off if you pair it with a motherboard at Microcenter. You can get a new mobo + CPU combo for literally $230 + tax, plus it comes with a stock cooler, if you just want something recent.

Most importantly, that's a cheap way to get a couple of M.2 slots and upgrade to DDR4 RAM slots.

Nothing · Aug 14, 2018

Страна Мечты said:
I guess, i just wanna remind people that they cut a lot of corners, especially in the cheaper ones with the decieving names.

Buildzoid's criticism also puts some of the blame on lazy techblogs and reviews, who just rate the equipment by counting the inductors, ports and how many blinking lights they have.

I watched that video you posted in the previous thread. But it would be more helpful if that youtube guy (or you) listed some quality motherboards in the budget $100-130 range instead. That guy in the video just rips on the ASrock board to shreds and then doesn't offer any solutions. That board was on my value watchlist too, so while that's a tiny bit helpful, it would be better to hear about some good value boards. Do you have any recommendations?

Nothing · Aug 14, 2018

TheMadTitan said:
So, last month, after assembling my build, I realized that my mobo didn't come with an I/O shield. Contacted Gigabyte, who went immediately silent as I knew they would, so I went and bought shield off of ebay. 3746 million weeks later, the I/O shield arrives from China, but they sent me the wrong one.

That's on top of it being bent when it arrived, but that's something easy to deal with; I just bent it back lol. But it not having the correct cutouts is an issue. Anyone have any recommendations on where I can get an aftermarket I/O shield sent to me from somewhere closer to North America? Given that it took damn near three weeks for me to get this, I'm sure it's going to take the same amount of time for me to get a refund processed on it and another sent back, and I'd rather not be out out an I/O shield for three months.

Gah, this reminds me how much I hate ordering a motherboard over the web rather than getting one in-store. I feel for you brother. I bought a Gigabyte board for a gaming build once and It was DOA. It wasted weeks of my time doing an RMA through newegg and made me never want to buy a Gigabyte board ever again.

Lil Peanut Brotha · Aug 14, 2018

I'm currently trying to decide what to build within the next few months; TLDR is I'm an animator who wants to sometimes to video and motion graphics work and a bit of 3D. My weapon of choice, after effects, almost exclusively relies on fast core speeds, and is horrible at multicore stuff. I was going to wait for the 9900k, but looking at the speeds, I feel like a 16-core threadripper isn't that much slower, and offers way more future proofing (and the cores would be used from time to time on renders and multitasking).

My question is though, do you all see a future where more cores will actually help for day-to-day use? I feel like we still aren't there yet, but I want to make this computer and not having to touch it much for the next 7 years like I did with my last one. I'd rather deal with sub-optimization and priciness now for a bit if it means I get a pretty future proofed build.

PS: I'm so sad that RAM is so expensive because I need LEAST 32GB, wanted 64 ideally but probably shouldnt right now... :p

Friggz · Aug 14, 2018

Hey Everyone...im starting to explore the market for parts for a new build. I admit that i only keep up with new specs when im ready for a new build, but its been about 8 years and im sure im a few generations behind. I was looking for pointers or recommendations based on the parts in the link below. Oddly enough, the hardest part was finding a monitor becuase ive never used curved widescreen, so it might be a case of going to the store and seeing what looks good. I also might reconsider the graphics card since a coworker said new ones are expected to be released soon.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/nDcVmq

any tips on the parts are of course greatly appreciated.

Nostremitus · Aug 14, 2018

Friggz said:
Hey Everyone...im starting to explore the market for parts for a new build. I admit that i only keep up with new specs when im ready for a new build, but its been about 8 years and im sure im a few generations behind. I was looking for pointers or recommendations based on the parts in the link below. Oddly enough, the hardest part was finding a monitor becuase ive never used curved widescreen, so it might be a case of going to the store and seeing what looks good. I also might reconsider the graphics card since a coworker said new ones are expected to be released soon.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/nDcVmq

any tips on the parts are of course greatly appreciated.

What will you be using the PC for? Strictly gaming?

Lakeside · Aug 14, 2018

VlaudTheImpaler said:
Yo, if you ever want some advice on back issues feel free to hit me up. I slipped a disk 6 years ago and it was a really, really long road to recovery. Initially we lost everything we had. Everything.

Will send you a PM. I've been chasing this since Feb/March and yeah the main issue is T8-T9.. had been insisting they check that area for months due to pain and had doctor after doctor refuse to test it b/c it's "rare" and insurance refuse to pay for the test, then deny my appeal.

Friggz · Aug 14, 2018

Nostremitus said:
What will you be using the PC for? Strictly gaming?

i figured i should of mentioned that. gaming would be its primary use. but it would also be a media server for streaming, etc. I also only build every few years so was hoping to "future proof" a bit.

TheMadTitan · Aug 14, 2018

Nothing said:
Gah, this reminds me how much I hate ordering a motherboard over the web rather than getting one in-store. I feel for you brother. I bought a Gigabyte board for a gaming build once and It was DOA. It wasted weeks of my time doing an RMA through newegg and made me never want to buy a Gigabyte board ever again.

That's something I'm trying to avoid.

I'm also trying to avoid having to buy a new motherboard and sending this one out as a return in the interim. Doing all of that for an I/O shield seems excessive.

Vulcano's Assistant · Aug 14, 2018

Lil Peanut Brotha said:
I'm currently trying to decide what to build within the next few months; TLDR is I'm an animator who wants to sometimes to video and motion graphics work and a bit of 3D. My weapon of choice, after effects, almost exclusively relies on fast core speeds, and is horrible at multicore stuff. I was going to wait for the 9900k, but looking at the speeds, I feel like a 16-core threadripper isn't that much slower, and offers way more future proofing (and the cores would be used from time to time on renders and multitasking).

My question is though, do you all see a future where more cores will actually help for day-to-day use? I feel like we still aren't there yet, but I want to make this computer and not having to touch it much for the next 7 years like I did with my last one. I'd rather deal with sub-optimization and priciness now for a bit if it means I get a pretty future proofed build.

PS: I'm so sad that RAM is so expensive because I need LEAST 32GB, wanted 64 ideally but probably shouldnt right now... :p

Going HEDT and multi-core can be more versatile if you see yourself combining AE with effects from 3D rendering software, not only because of the cores, but because of the pcie lanes that would let you have more GPUs for GPU accelerated rendering software such as Octane or Redshift.

I do hope that Adobe gets on with the hyper-threading soon, but disregarding what they will do, what do you see yourself doing in the future?

For instance, in my case I can tell you that I regretted that in 2011 I chose to go for a procesor with only 28-lanes and a motherboard that could only have 3 GPUs. Back then I was only thinking of After Effects and a little bit of Blender, but months later I got more serious about 3D and Octane Render and I could use every GPU I can install.

Even if you do not use gpu accelerated software, every 3d cpu rendering software benefits from more cores. So I would say got Threadripper if you see yourself doing more 3d in the future. (or wait and see if the x299 refresh isn't a shitshow)

Lil Peanut Brotha · Aug 14, 2018

Vulcano's Assistant said:
Going HEDT and multi-core can be more versatile if you see yourself combining AE with effects from 3D rendering software, not only because of the cores, but because of the pcie lanes that would let you have more GPUs for GPU accelerated rendering software such as Octane or Redshift.

I do hope that Adobe gets on with the hyper-threading soon, but disregarding what they will do, what do you see yourself doing in the future?

For instance, in my case I can tell you that I regretted that in 2011 chose to go for a procesor with only 28-lanes and a motherboard in that could only have 3 GPUs. Back then I was only thinking of After Effects and a little bit of Blender, but months later I got more serious about 3D and Octane Render and I could use every GPU I can install.

Even if you do not use gpu accelerated software, every 3d cpu rendering software benefits from more cores. So I would say got Threadripper if you see yourself doing more 3d. (or wait and see if the x299 refresh isn't a shitshow)

Luckily I actually don't need much GPU power which will make all this way less expensive. I just want a single card baller enough to do decent simpler real-time work and simulation, and game. The 3D I want to learn is generally more efficient/simple vs. turbo realistic stuff.

I think I'd like to get into some game engine work, maybe UE4, with along with a bit more Cinema 4D action. But at the end of the day for freelance stuff I'd likely use AE the most.

asmith906 · Aug 14, 2018

thomasjast said:
I don't understand why someone wouldn't buy the best CPU for gaming if they intend to game on it. The prices aren't that far off. Both Intel and AMD make cheap CPUs and $2000 CPUs, so buy the one that does the intended task the best. Besides Intel being on ringbus topology for their mainstream line, they support insane RAM speeds. I'm running 4266 memory, and you'd better believe that makes a difference in gaming frametimes. It's a shame AMD doesn't have that, because their mesh topology is very memory-sensitive and would benefit from it.

PC's are useful for things under than gaming
Ryzen CPUs are so good because they are a good compromise. You get gaming that's good enough while also getting a CPU with a lot of cores for other tasks.

bbq of doom · Aug 14, 2018

I'm gonna be buying a desk and a chair soon, a few questions:

Any recommendations?
Cable management--any tips?

I'd like to put my case on the desk with the 34 inch ultrawide, for a few reasons. First, fuck dog hair. Second, I want to see it! I built it, I'm proud of it, and I want to show it off.

For a chair, it seems like most folks like DXRacer. Is there anything comparable that's not high $200/$300?

Nostremitus · Aug 14, 2018

Friggz said:
i figured i should of mentioned that. gaming would be its primary use. but it would also be a media server for streaming, etc. I also only build every few years so was hoping to "future proof" a bit.

Looks good, but like your friend said, new cards are expected pretty soon. So it may be a good idea to wait on that end.

Definitely go look at monitors yourself before buying. But the one you've selected is a decent choice.

But the newer monitors have HDR. Might be worth checking out. HDR is still in it's infancy on PC, but it's definitely worth looking at.

Vulcano's Assistant · Aug 14, 2018

Lil Peanut Brotha said:
Luckily I actually don't need much GPU power which will make all this way less expensive. I just want a single card baller enough to do decent simpler real-time work and simulation, and game. The 3D I want to learn is generally more efficient/simple vs. turbo realistic stuff.

I think I'd like to get into some game engine work, maybe UE4, with along with a bit more Cinema 4D action. But at the end of the day for freelance stuff I'd likely use AE the most.

9700K or 9900K with faster single thread performance will be better on After Effects, but going HEDT like Threadripper could leave you more options open because that way you can also upgrade your ram more easily in the future, since you have 8 slots. Much less bang for the buck than Threadripper in terms of cores, but a compromise would be intel HEDT, like waiting to see if whatever replaces the 7820X this Q4 has coffee-lake single thread performance. Everything is just more expensive going intel HEDT, so I wouldn't get my hopes up for something that offers better performance per dollar in AE than a 8700K.

Simple 3D motions graphics still benefit from GPU accelerated renderers, Cinema 4D has plugin options for a Radeon graphics-based renderer, and several CUDA core based renderers, but even ignoring that, it for sure will benefit from more cores on the vanilla physical or standard renderers.

edit: The funny thing about Cinema 4D vanilla renderers is that it may just be the one program everybody indirectly knows how good every cpu in existence will perform, since cinebench 15 is so popular.

Soda · Aug 14, 2018

BBQ_of_DOOM said:
I'm gonna be buying a desk and a chair soon, a few questions:

Any recommendations?

Cable management--any tips?

I'd like to put my case on the desk with the 34 inch ultrawide, for a few reasons. First, fuck dog hair. Second, I want to see it! I built it, I'm proud of it, and I want to show it off.

For a chair, it seems like most folks like DXRacer. Is there anything comparable that's not high $200/$300?

I'm using a twenty year old hand-me-down chair so I have no room to talk, but my understanding is that DX Racer chairs are overpriced. Getting an actual desk chair instead of a racer chair is supposedly the way to go.

VlaudTheImpaler · Aug 14, 2018

Lakeside said:
Will send you a PM. I've been chasing this since Feb/March and yeah the main issue is T8-T9.. had been insisting they check that area for months due to pain and had doctor after doctor refuse to test it b/c it's "rare" and insurance refuse to pay for the test, then deny my appeal.

Ugh, I've been there with the insurance struggle, trust me. Yeah, just let me know whenever you have some time to chat and I'll send you a link to my discord.

BBQ_of_DOOM said:
For a chair, it seems like most folks like DXRacer. Is there anything comparable that's not high $200/$300?

Halt. Parar. 停住. Stopper. Anhalten. Fermarsi. 停止する.

You really would be doing yourself a huge favor by saving up and getting a good ergonomic office chair. Please refer to my last post. People spend 1/3 of their entire life just sleeping and that leaves 2/3 for everything else. Ask yourself how much more you stand than sit? If you tend to spend a lot of time sitting then investing in something healthier for you to spend that time in is really good idea. I can't recommend anything that I haven't personally used but I would suggest taking a trip to an office supply store or something like that to try the chair out before you buy it if you can.

bbq of doom · Aug 14, 2018

VlaudTheImpaler said:
Ugh, I've been there with the insurance struggle, trust me. Yeah, just let me know whenever you have some time to chat and I'll send you a link to my discord.

Halt. Parar. 停住. Stopper. Anhalten. Fermarsi. 停止する.

You really would be doing yourself a huge favor by saving up and getting a good ergonomic office chair. Please refer to my last post. People spend 1/3 of their entire life just sleeping and that leaves 2/3 for everything else. Ask yourself how much more you stand than sit? If you tend to spend a lot of time sitting then investing in something healthier for you to spend that time in is really good idea. I can't recommend anything that I haven't personally used but I would suggest taking a trip to an office supply store or something like that to try the chair out before you buy it if you can.

I'm fine with spending, I just want to make sure I'm buying more than the name, ya know? Thank you for your suggestions!

Chaosblade · Aug 14, 2018

BBQ_of_DOOM said:
I'm fine with spending, I just want to make sure I'm buying more than the name, ya know? Thank you for your suggestions!

I regularly see recommendations to look into used office chairs that an office/business is getting rid of. Good/high end chairs seem a bit like cars, as soon as you open the box and assemble it a huge chunk of the value is lost. You can get office chairs that run nearly a grand new for a couple hundred used.

potatohead · Aug 15, 2018

Coulomb_Barrier said:
Complete nonsense. Average fps is how CPU gaming performance has been judged for over a decade. Now that Ryzen 2nd gen is very, very close to Intel's fastest gaming CPUs in this metric, suddenly we need to look at minimum FPS and 99th percentile, and deem that 1 extra dropped frame for a fraction of a second occuring every few minutes is catastrophic, so Ryzen is 'not good for gaming'...don't be absurd.

Also, high-end CPUs like the 2700X and 9900K will be used with monitors above 1080p, and in 1440p and 4K gaming, you're most certainly not getting '350 fps' so average FPS there is absolutely crucial metric for performance, so that's another silly point.

Not picking a horse here tho my last 2 CPU are amd I just like their price per perf and I multitask a lot so I love the extra cores even run multiple games at once lol

Avg frames are important

Min frames and 99th percentile frames are also important as part of a data set

Frequency of drops also important

Value per person may differ and also motherboard or ram may affect experience as well same with user perception

Personally I don't really watch frames especially if I'm above 45 or 50 plus I see the difference but I find regardless easily playable

And personally I love my amd chips and believe they are great for gaming any modern CPU is nice so I agree this narrative about amd not good for pc gaming is ridiculous

I have built my last 2 desktop with amd CPU and nvidia gpu combo and have had excellent experiences on both I would also completely reject the notion that amd CPUS are not good for gaming they are fantastic and I love playing games on my desktop

I am only buying a laptop when they have amd apu in a laptop now because I find their CPUS awesome and apus even more so for mobile

I bought my dad a laptop a800 or something for 499 cad in 2015 still running great today and smoked my 1 year older far more expensive laptop in gpu rendering with a 720m nvidia I can't wait to get a simple thinkpad with amd apu for my next laptop it will be primarily a workstation not for gaming but current amd apus are no slouch cannot wait for my next laptop

Страна Мечты · Aug 15, 2018

Nothing said:
I watched that video you posted in the previous thread. But it would be more helpful if that youtube guy (or you) listed some quality motherboards in the budget $100-130 range instead. That guy in the video just rips on the ASrock board to shreds and then doesn't offer any solutions. That board was on my value watchlist too, so while that's a tiny bit helpful, it would be better to hear about some good value boards. Do you have any recommendations?

With some things you get what you pay for, these are one of those things. Asus seems to skimp on things that might actually be least missed, (bootfailure blame led, backup bios) but don't take my word for because i don't have money (why would i use AMD otherwise?)

Charsace said:
This is what I got recently because the $140 msi pro carbon was bad. Ruined ram when I tried to overclock it and had USB ports die. The ROG Strix is much better so far.

Did the modules actually die? DDR3/4 modules have a pretty low current which makes them pretty hard to cook through voltage alone (not for a lack of trying on my part) and they should handle up to 1.5/1.55 volts well if you move air over them. 1.85v is the limit for liquid immersion cooling.

Abstrusity · Aug 15, 2018

Gonna head to bed but I gotta ask before I do since it's on my mind;

My PC needs work. The power supply I got 6 years ago finally died, thankfully not taking anything with it, but since I'm using an i5 2550k with a more than modest overclock at the moment, it's about time to upgrade.

To do that, of course, I have to replace the motherboard and ram, too, and probably install windows 10. I'm saving up right now after moving into my new apartment, but are there new CPUs on the horizon? The plan was to upgrade to the latest i5, as I don't do much more than play games and sometimes work on making them, with some emulation, and it's 2018 and fucking nobody can use multiple cores effectively in games because it's basically impossible, (barring some circumstances).

Now, I'll probably spring for an overclockable variant, but is there another Intel chip on the horizon for the next 6 months?
Becasue I'm going to be pissed if I wind up with an 1151 v3 chip and an 1151 v2 board.

Vulcano's Assistant · Aug 15, 2018

Abstrusity said:
Gonna head to bed but I gotta ask before I do since it's on my mind;

My PC needs work. The power supply I got 6 years ago finally died, thankfully not taking anything with it, but since I'm using an i5 2550k with a more than modest overclock at the moment, it's about time to upgrade.

To do that, of course, I have to replace the motherboard and ram, too, and probably install windows 10. I'm saving up right now after moving into my new apartment, but are there new CPUs on the horizon? The plan was to upgrade to the latest i5, as I don't do much more than play games and sometimes work on making them, with some emulation, and it's 2018 and fucking nobody can use multiple cores effectively in games because it's basically impossible, (barring some circumstances).

Now, I'll probably spring for an overclockable variant, but is there another Intel chip on the horizon for the next 6 months?
Becasue I'm going to be pissed if I wind up with an 1151 v3 chip and an 1151 v2 board.

Intel's 9th generation processors are rumored to launch in October

The PC Builders Thread ("I Need a New PC") v2

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