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Oct 26, 2017
2,780
My biggest issue with Epic is them moneyhatting third party games that locks out other stores (like Steam), so until that is fixed, nope.

I wonder, is moneyhatting that different from being a publisher a giving money to a dev to develop a game and then releasing it on your (the Publisher's) store? Because people don't have a problem with the latter, while the former seems to be the ORIGINAL SIN.

I mean, yes, it's different, but I would say isn't that huge of a difference than most people seem to consider.
In both cases a company is paying with money to the developer, which use it to compensate the cost incurred for the development of said game. In case of a publisher the funding is 100% or close to 100% so their game will be theirs and it will be in their store 'forever' exclusive, and in Epic case, the moneyhat is surely a partial amount (in comparison with the total development cost) so the exclusive is also partial (one year). It seems almost fair.

It may seem totally different, but once the money is the bank account of the developer, well, there isn't a lot of difference. It's all money to pay salaries and the office and etc.
The obvious difference, I guess, is that the publisher money is more explicitly to pay for the development, that's why it's given at the start of it, while the moneyhat comes later, so it isn't really paying for the development! However, I think that in the end, as I say there isn't that big of a difference, it's still money and it's still a game company, the money will serve at the end of the day to pay for the company expenses, be the post release support of the game, be the development of their next game, whatever.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,338
United Kingdom
Meh, the devs (read: publishers) already get paid. We get the games (all fixed up with patches) a year later for 50% of the price. Not a huge issue imo. There's more than enough good games coming out on other non EGS platforms.

Somehow, I highly doubt most of these games would be 50% cheaper upon releasing on a new storefront. Watch the publishers charge full price for the later releases too! More like 18 to 24 months later for half the price.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,064
Gabe Newell:

"In general, we think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem. For example, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the U.S. release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable. Most DRM solutions diminish the value of the product by either directly restricting a customers use or by creating uncertainty."

I do sadly think piray will increase when it comes to games being EGS exclusive until they are released on Steam. It's not something I want to happen as piracy is not a good thing, but Gabe is on point with that quote.

This is pretty false though? I know from personal experience, especially as a child, that it was 100% a pricing problem. My dad would get or mod my consoles because none of us could afford to buy new games, especially really expensive console games.

So while sure, nowadays it's way easier for me to just buy something than even think about pirate it (hell, I even rent movies on youtube every once in a while now), price is still one of the major reasons.
 

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,179
They didn't say. Just "2.5x more than Metro Last Light", which in-itself is vague. Since it doesn't clarify if it's the OG, Redux, or both.

Was Metro Last Light even a hot game when it launched? I don't remember that being the case. Feel like the franchise was still relatively obscure at the time.
 

Enforcer

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,962
So many people already threatening to pirate games everywhere.

Good job on Epic for slowly killing PC gaming. Sigh.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
Remember everyone Epic is only being anti-consumer now to compete with Steam to be totally pro-consumer later.

Believe.

/s

Fuck this shit and the 'consumers' who defend it. 2020 it is.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
I'm sure there's a middle ground between defending Epic and using PC Master Race/Steam fanboy memes.

Hey i'm all for shitting on the Master Race types, but facts are facts. Steam provides those features, EGS doesn't. Facts always help people stay informed. So unless your point is that people shouldn't be informed, then those posts are indeed helpful.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,931
USA
I'm not a hardcore PC gamer, but looking through this thread sure is interesting.

I guess my question is this: if Epic did not money hat these exclusives, what would it take (if anything) for you to use EGS over Steam? Would more features be enough?

I'm just wondering, since Steam is a borderline monopoly, how another company could really get into the PC gaming storefront and start seriously competing. I know most people would agree healthy competition is good for consumers, but most seem to think Epic is going about it in the wrong way.

The lack of features is obviously huge. The list of missing features is larger than list of current features.

The lack of price competition is just as big. The fact that I can't get a competitively priced EGS game is bullshit as a PC gamer. I'm not a full price kind of guy. I look for value. We don't get that with any EGS game. There's no competitive market driving prices down. Metro Exodus will be $50 on EGS and on Humble. I can't simply go to Fanatical or GMG for a better price because Epic has removed that option. They've eliminated that option for consumers.

EGS as it stands right now is not good for consumers. It's a worse experience and a worse value.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,606
Epic is doing a fine job at splitting the developer and gamer community. Thank you Tim Sweeney for your fine and non greedy contributions to gaming! /s It's one thing to offer a higher cut to developers which is something all storefronts should do, including Steam. But timed exclusives should not exist in the gaming industry.

Let the developers make the decision as to where they want their games to end up and don't force it on them with stupid contracts promising money up front, that is anti-consumer and anti-competitive.
Is this satire?
 

NCR Ranger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
I don't look forward to what PC gaming looks like 5 years from now.

What you don't look forward to every major PC game being tied to some storefront exclusively for some period of time and developers telling their customers to suck it up?

I for one am already enjoying developers telling me that any complaints I have with EGS compared to Steam is just me being a whiny fanboy.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,694
This is pretty false though? I know from personal experience, especially as a child, that it was 100% a pricing problem. My dad would get or mod my consoles because none of us could afford to buy new games, especially really expensive console games.

So while sure, nowadays it's way easier for me to just buy something than even think about pirate it (hell, I even rent movies on youtube every once in a while now), price is still one of the major reasons.

I don't want this to come off as sounding like an ass but I'm pretty sure gabe has more information than this example.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,755
Ibis Island
Was Metro Last Light even a hot game when it launched? I don't remember that being the case. Feel like the franchise was still relatively obscure at the time.

I remember it being big, but big then and now on steam are two different things. If I recall, steamspy numbers were higher for the redux than the OG the last time we were able to look at them.
 

Yukinari

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,538
The Danger Zone
Welcome to the internet I guess? Where people have frivolously pirated all forms of media for decades. While it's obviously morally wrong, It's not exactly considered very taboo

Its very odd how this forum dodges piracy as if it doesnt happen. Does nobody think keeping a ton of big releases exclusive to 1 client for a year wont result in more piracy?
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,154
China
So many people already threatening to pirate games everywhere.

Good job on Epic for slowly killing PC gaming. Sigh.

You know that all of those exclusive games are not available in China now thanks to the exclusivity (because EGS blocks chinese IPs) and the natural cause will be that people there will now pirate it.

60% of Dawn of Men sales came from China...
PUBG 60% sales came from China.

Regional pricing helped making that region the 3rd biggest region for Valve. It battled piracy. And now those deals will lead to piracy for those games again.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,126
It would be a game not available on the EGS, for one. Valve seems to be in need of those lately.
Valve having exclusive games doesn't actually do anything to address the problems Epic's exclusivity deals present to it.

Store exclusivity in the PC world is good for one thing: to force people to buy games where they'd prefer not to. It won't endear your customer to you and get them to buy future games from you, especially not when the games they're interested in are already exclusive somewhere else.
 

Deleted member 14735

Oct 27, 2017
930
dhMeAzK.gif


Spot on. Sure, some developers may not be flush with cash, but neither is the consumer, I pay more money for a game with less clientside features? My money slides right back in my wallet for the eventual universal client release a year later, and I'll probably wait another 6 months or so to get it at a vastly discounted price.

We average joe workers aren't just SWIMMING IN CASH you know?
Yep, if I had to pay full price for games at launch I would buy very, very few of them. This Epic stuff doesn't bother me so much because I already do wait on a lot of games to get steep discounts as well, I'm in no rush, they're viddy games, there's more than enough that I'm interested in than I could play in my lifetime. So I see this and it's just, sure, these are ones that I'll pick up on the steep discounts some years down the line, if I still care for them then.

People talking a lot about feature sets in here but price is a big one as well, those third party sellers really do make a difference with what is and isn't affordable for some of us.
 

wossname

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,433
I can happily wait a year and get them on Steam, by which time they'll be a third of the price
 

Deleted member 22405

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
368
The Windows store. Not Steam. No. The Windows store. One of the worst platforms ever. Getting sick of this shit.
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,333
Remember when Epic said their store would help the smaller, struggling games?

Good times.
 

Cess007

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,184
B.C., Mexico
Gabe Newell:

"In general, we think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem. For example, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the U.S. release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable. Most DRM solutions diminish the value of the product by either directly restricting a customers use or by creating uncertainty."

I do sadly think piray will increase when it comes to games being EGS exclusive until they are released on Steam. It's not something I want to happen as piracy is not a good thing, but Gabe is on point with that quote.

Based on my experience. I have to hard disagree with Gabe there. Pricing is a huuuuuuge reason for piracy.

Welp. 2019 is shaping up to be a real quiet year for PC gaming

Something tells me that this year will be anything but quiet on the PC gaming sector.
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
Also a friendly reminder that right in the middle of this debate/drama surrounding EGS and moneyhatting exclusives, Microsoft announced Halo on PC releasing on both Steam and Win10store. Just think about that for a sec. MS could have forced Win10 exclusivity and noone would have batted an eyelash. In fact the Steam release came as a shock to everyone. What does that say about Epic? Or Take Two? Or Ubisoft?
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,504
FIN
If Metro Exodus sales are anything to go by, the vast majority of people don't care which launcher a game is on. PC is PC.

Was released numbers EGS only or also include Steam sales that went through the roof once news came down about game being deleted from Steam in 24h?

Glad to see more competition in the PC platform space. Also happy to see developers getting what I assume to be good minimum sales deals for the exclusivity window.

For developer this is good news I bet, especially if one lands one of they Epic money trucks. For consumer? If going from multiple stores and storefronts to 1 with fixed price and no discounts is somehow positive...
 

Kareha

Banned
Jun 15, 2018
1,460
United Kingdom
What you don't look forward to every major PC game being tied to some storefront exclusively for some period of time and developers telling their customers to suck it up?

I for one am already enjoying developers telling me that any complaints I have with EGS compared to Steam is just me being a whiny fanboy.

Or a racist, don't forget not liking the Epic Store is racist towards the Chinese for some fucking reason I still can't figure out.
 

Deleted member 13645

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,052
Do we 100% know that? Does a developer have any say at all in regards to platform? Could it be written in a contract between publisher and developer?

Generally the publisher has control over how/where games are sold, not the dev. Also, there's another Private Division-published game that is exclusive to Epic Game Store, so unless both of the devs of those games decided to go exclusive, it looks very like that Take Two/Private Division is the one who decided it will be EGS exclusive.
 

dreamfall

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,027
Yuck.

I really wish the Epic approach wasn't to take multi platform PC titles and make them exclusive to their launcher. I'm not ready for a new client.
 

SeanBoocock

Senior Engineer @ Epic Games
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
248
Austin, Texas
But fuck the consumers eh.

I didn't know that eroding monopoly control of the enthusiast PC games space was a "fuck the consumers" move. Long term I want more players in the space as it benefits everyone, consumers and developers alike. That Epic is giving visibility and some funding to developers along the way in exchange for timed exclusivity doesn't bother me as a consumer. I'll go where the content is.