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Jun 18, 2018
1,100
I suspect most of Doom 16's design is as it is in order to work around the limited abilities of gamepads. The game doesnt have very fast movement, its as fast as Doom 3 sprint or a bit slower and is as fast as Half Life 1 speed is. And much, much lower than Doom or any other classic fps. Reality is you cant do this shit on gamepads, cause it doesnt work. Its faster than regular games, but its nothing crazy.

Doom 1 had more variety in its landscapes, but it still had its equivalent of arenas, providing space for the player to out manoeuvre a large group of enemies. Hopefully Doom Eternal will get more variety in there, & it's annoying to be locked in, but the combat still feels fantastic on both joypad and K&M.

And I doubt the joypad is the only factor when it comes to speed - let's not forget how well the PSOne's joypad suited the original Doom. This game has Glory Kills. It needs you to get up close to enemies on a regular basis, it also features jumping and more vertical than the first two games, and embraces using cover more.

All these factor into the area design.

[EDIT] Also, the 'push forward' approach to combat always wants to put the player in the thick of enemies. In many of Doom 1&2's levels you can hold back and spam groups using the chain gun, rocket launcher, plasma rifle and BFG before moving in close to pick the survivors off.
 
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TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,775
Video Games
Would someone with Doom 3 on the Switch be able to do me a favour please?

I'd like to know if there's a controls option, usually referred to as 'Southpaw' that allows me to look with the left analogue stick and move with the right stick. I'm a lefty and that's how I play all shooters with joypads.

Also, what's the res and framerate like for Doom 3 on the PS4Pro and Switch?
Native res on Switch. For more see the FAQ threadmark.

All options (it's all identical across platforms):
67466851_2444148062531vk46.jpg
67554644_244414807587t1k06.jpg

67431254_2444148069206dkro.jpg



I just literally dont see how this game is liked. Maybe these exact automations? People play, the game does 80% of the job behind the scenes and the player feels good? I dont know
Because it is incredibly fun to play, has great visual and audio feedback, encourages high mobility play, and gives you lots of tools to play around with encounters. Not sure why that's so hard to see when it's been talked about so much these last three years.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
6,571
I thought someone in this thread said that you only needed to login once... Yeah turns out that's BS. I logged in day one to the Bethesda account to play Doom. Now I wanted to play it on my lunch break and bam. Unable to skip the login screen. So much for that.

Fucking Hell.
 

Phantom88

Banned
Jan 7, 2018
726
Native res on Switch. For more see the FAQ threadmark.




Because it is incredibly fun to play, has great visual and audio feedback, encourages high mobility play, and gives you lots of tools to play around with encounters. Not sure why that's so hard to see when it's been talked about so much these last three years.


Painkiller has these in spades as well, actually much more impressive back in 2004. Has a different theme to every level and fresh enemies that go with that theme. All around excelent game. Most people i talked to were bored by the constant shooting.Same with Serious Sam. Game of the year on gamepost in 2001, because its awesome. Same, most people bored.

By the amount of people enjoying cinematic story driven 3rd person games today i was sure Doom is gonna be the same. Even if it feels good to play, i was expecting most people to be bored of doing the same rudimentary thing for 8 hours.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,775
Video Games
I thought someone in this thread said that you only needed to login once... Yeah turns out that's BS. I logged in day one to the Bethesda account to play Doom. Now I wanted to play it on my lunch break and bam. Unable to skip the login screen. So much for that.

Fucking Hell.
It's not BS. I've done it, tested it in multiple ways. You can play without logging in again. Either you're pressing the wrong buttons to skip the screens or there's some weird inconsistency thing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
It's not BS. I've done it, tested it in multiple ways. You can play without logging in again. Either you're pressing the wrong buttons to skip the screens or there's some weird inconsistency thing.
Now I've heard it all. Yeah pressing the wrong button. This port is so borked that not even their DRM is working consistently. I just opened a hotspot to connect and it worked as long as I didn't close the application. As soon as I opened the Game again (not from sleep) same BS happened again.

This is fucking shameful.

Edit: Sorry if I come across attacking you. I am just baffled at how harebrained this point implementation has been handled. Seems like it doesn't store the login for me.
 
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TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,775
Video Games
Now I've heard it all. Yeah pressing the wrong button. This port is so borked that not even their DRM is working consistently. I just opened a hotspot to connect and it worked as long as I didn't close the application. As soon as I opened the Game again (not from sleep) same BS happened again.

This is fucking shameful.
Well yea? I get that it's annoying but can you really not see how that is a question worth asking if you're trying to hammer through it with A or whatever. People do this. I've said this before but nobody actually bothers to troubleshoot this after firing off their frustration. I'm not having any of these issues and I would've loved to figure out why it's so inconsistent so we could maybe find a better explanation for a temp fix.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,571
Well yea? I get that it's annoying but can you really not see how that is a question worth asking if you're trying to hammer through it with A or whatever. People do this. I've said this before but nobody actually bothers to troubleshoot this after firing off their frustration. I'm not having any of these issues and I would've loved to figure out why it's so inconsistent so we could maybe find a better explanation for a temp fix.
I don't know why it doesn't remember my login. It works as long as I don't close the app completely. As soon as I close the app it forgets that I logged in.
 

Theecliff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,000
i'm playing through Doom for the first time on Switch and while i'm enjoying it, every time i put the console to sleep and turn it back on the game is frozen in the pause menu. anyone else having this issue?
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,775
Video Games
i'm playing through Doom for the first time on Switch and while i'm enjoying it, every time i put the console to sleep and turn it back on the game is frozen in the pause menu. anyone else having this issue?
Yes, brought up several times. Some have said if you let it sit, it "wakes up" again after a bit. Make sure to save frequently until they hopefully fix this along with the login crap.
 

Theecliff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,000
Yes, brought up several times. Some have said if you let it sit, it "wakes up" again after a bit. Make sure to save frequently until they hopefully fix this along with the login crap.
ah, maybe it's something to do with the game trying to reach out the bethesda.net server every time you reopen it then. hopefully removing the login requirement will inadvertently fix the freezing issue too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
United Kingdom
Well, I finished Doom 2 earlier. It's a decent (though not great) port of a... really fuckin' mediocre game. Jesus, did they just give up with some of the map designs? Wide, open areas and miniboss spam doesn't make for a fun time. The first 10 levels of Doom 2 are good, the remaining 20 are crap with some exceptions after you enter Hell. Standout shit levels include The Chasm, The Factory and The Courtyard. Also, Icon of Sin is a worse final boss than Doom 1 by a mile (because enemy spam makes for a great challenge, and I swear aiming rockets at his brain is damn near frame-perfect). Whilst I like the structure of Doom 2 more, and the Super Shotgun is fun, this doesn't make up for the really poor level designs and the fact that the game just gets tedious towards the end, because they don't introduce anything new: it's just labyrinth level after labyrinth level. The use of traps and spawning the player in front of hordes of enemies is a bad choice and having to abuse Invincibility orbs just seems like plain bad level design. After Doom 1, it's such a let down.

Still, I guess I'll have to get Doom 3 now...
 

bytesized

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,882
Amsterdam
I know it's cliche, but Doom 1 and Doom 2 really are "perfect for Switch." I find myself impulsively picking up the Switch to try and knock out another mission. Also, I really like running with ZL, and playing this portable with rumble is a joy.

Also, god-tier icons.
Same, I've been exclusively playing Doom since it was released. I'm now finishing up inferno and can't wait to fire up Doom II after that.

Was thinking about waiting for a sale for Doom 3 but I might just get it in the end since I've never played it before.
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
A lot of sloppiness tbh.

And holy cow at the Shield version being delisted and deleted!

 
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Futaleufu

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,910
Well, I finished Doom 2 earlier. It's a decent (though not great) port of a... really fuckin' mediocre game. Jesus, did they just give up with some of the map designs? Wide, open areas and miniboss spam doesn't make for a fun time. The first 10 levels of Doom 2 are good, the remaining 20 are crap with some exceptions after you enter Hell. Standout shit levels include The Chasm, The Factory and The Courtyard. Also, Icon of Sin is a worse final boss than Doom 1 by a mile (because enemy spam makes for a great challenge, and I swear aiming rockets at his brain is damn near frame-perfect). Whilst I like the structure of Doom 2 more, and the Super Shotgun is fun, this doesn't make up for the really poor level designs and the fact that the game just gets tedious towards the end, because they don't introduce anything new: it's just labyrinth level after labyrinth level. The use of traps and spawning the player in front of hordes of enemies is a bad choice and having to abuse Invincibility orbs just seems like plain bad level design. After Doom 1, it's such a let down.

Still, I guess I'll have to get Doom 3 now...

If you dont like shooting things in a FPS then you are wasting your time.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,588
Well, I finished Doom 2 earlier. It's a decent (though not great) port of a... really fuckin' mediocre game. Jesus, did they just give up with some of the map designs? Wide, open areas and miniboss spam doesn't make for a fun time. The first 10 levels of Doom 2 are good, the remaining 20 are crap with some exceptions after you enter Hell. Standout shit levels include The Chasm, The Factory and The Courtyard. Also, Icon of Sin is a worse final boss than Doom 1 by a mile (because enemy spam makes for a great challenge, and I swear aiming rockets at his brain is damn near frame-perfect). Whilst I like the structure of Doom 2 more, and the Super Shotgun is fun, this doesn't make up for the really poor level designs and the fact that the game just gets tedious towards the end, because they don't introduce anything new: it's just labyrinth level after labyrinth level. The use of traps and spawning the player in front of hordes of enemies is a bad choice and having to abuse Invincibility orbs just seems like plain bad level design. After Doom 1, it's such a let down.

Still, I guess I'll have to get Doom 3 now...

Gotta be honest, I'm about 2/3rds of the way through 2 and this is how I feel. The moment-to-moment gameplay is great and the super shotgun just feels amazing, but a good amount of these levels are just lame. I'll be interested to try some WADs afterwards though, maybe with Brutal Doom.
 

Rogue Agent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,528
I really wanted to buy the originals specifically for the Switch but these issues just make it really difficult to purchase. I'll be glad to buy them if they ever fix these issues.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
United Kingdom
If you dont like shooting things in a FPS then you are wasting your time.

You know I didn't say that. But sure, let's brush asides my criticism by being snarky! I guess I'm not allowed to critcise Doom 2? Heaven forbid. I guess you're nostalgic for D2 and feel hurt because I've criticised the game? Get a grip.

My point is that Doom 2 just has poor level design at points. The actual gunplay remains fun, when the level design actually compliments it.
The game just dumps enemies on you without any regard as to their placement, so it just turns into a game of 'spam rockets' (or the BFG) until they all die, or just run past them because most of the time it's completely optional. You tell me that being spawned right in front of a million enemies is good design, especially in The Factory, where you are spawned right next to a set of Imps and forced to take damage, because killing them all in time is damn near impossible. I wouldn't mind this kind of level design if it wasn't the bulk of the game. Doom 1 did it well; only a few levels have this kind of design. By the end of the game, I could predict exactly what enemies would spawn and where because the game just got that predictable and boring. It's not even just enemy spam that is the problem: the bulk of the levels in the game after Map 10 are just big, open areas, which mean they're boring to traverse (when there are no enemies) and they're super boring to backtrack through.

Doom 1 is better in every way, except for the episodic structure (which I appreciate was due to the market at the time).
 
Dec 4, 2018
285
United Kingdom
as probablt already mentioned, shame there wasnt any Final Doom/ Doom 64 (yet?) included...
also given it was QuakeCon would have been extra nice for Q1, Q2, Q3(+TA) and Q4 ( dont hate me, i liked it still) to come to complete the set....

then all i'd want is UT99, UT2004 and i'll be sorted
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
United Kingdom
Can you clarify what you mean by this? The episodic structure is my only complaint for Doom 1, and I'm curious why it had to be that way at all.

Doom 1 was released as shareware, which was common for the time. You could download the game for free and play E1, and then through mail order get access to E2 and E3. I still don't feel the episodic structure was necessary, but I suspect this is the reason. Doom 2 wasn't released as shareware; it went straight to stores, so the need to split the game up was no longer needed, as there was no 'free' version of the game.
 

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,215
The distribution method for the first game when it came out was that the first episode was freeware, and you could buy the rest of the game directly from the devs if you liked it.
Oh okay! Cool, I didn't know that.

Too bad they didn't modernize the episodic structure; it's a bit of a bummer to have to lose all your weapons and such at the start of a new chapter.
 

Adnor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,957
Gotta be honest, I'm about 2/3rds of the way through 2 and this is how I feel. The moment-to-moment gameplay is great and the super shotgun just feels amazing, but a good amount of these levels are just lame. I'll be interested to try some WADs afterwards though, maybe with Brutal Doom.
Just an FYI for Brutal Doom, it changes the balance of the guns and monsters and it uses actual photos of real gore for the gibs, just in low resolution (they might have changed it but still)

Also the creator is a racist piece of shit.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,588
Just an FYI for Brutal Doom, it changes the balance of the guns and monsters and it uses actual photos of real gore for the gibs, just in low resolution (they might have changed it but still)

Also the creator is a racist piece of shit.

Oh shit, that's pretty gross. Guess I'll stick with vanilla then. Thanks.
 

Deleted member 13155

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,604
So, whats the consensus on Hell in Doom 3? I love it! I dunno why, I just like the encounter design and moving backgrounds there.
 

Futaleufu

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,910
The game just dumps enemies on you without any regard as to their placement, so it just turns into a game of 'spam rockets' (or the BFG) until they all die, or just run past them because most of the time it's completely optional. You tell me that being spawned right in front of a million enemies is good design, especially in The Factory, where you are spawned right next to a set of Imps and forced to take damage, because killing them all in time is damn near impossible. I wouldn't mind this kind of level design if it wasn't the bulk of the game. Doom 1 did it well; only a few levels have this kind of design. By the end of the game, I could predict exactly what enemies would spawn and where because the game just got that predictable and boring. It's not even just enemy spam that is the problem: the bulk of the levels in the game after Map 10 are just big, open areas, which mean they're boring to traverse (when there are no enemies) and they're super boring to backtrack through.

In Doom 2 enemy placement is part of the stage design. If you are having troubling with levels just lower the difficulty.

I played The Plutonia Experiment and Alien Vendetta not too long ago on UV. There are several great moments on those megaWADs created solely by putting the right enemy in the right spot. Great synergy there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
United Kingdom
In Doom 2 enemy placement is part of the stage design. If you are having troubling with levels just lower the difficulty.

I played The Plutonia Experiment and Alien Vendetta not too long ago on UV. There are several great moments on those megaWADs created solely by putting the right enemy in the right spot. Great synergy there.

Was waiting for the 'git gud' response, pretty much. Why engage with my post when you can just tell me I'm bad at the game, eh?

'solely by putting the right enemy in the right spot' - you're not wrong, that enemy placement makes up a big part of level design. Thank you for reminding me of something extremely obvious.

I still maintain that enemy placement in the middle part of Doom 2 was done without much regard for making the level interesting. Just making a group of enemies with a miniboss or two spawn isn't good level design in the open areas because you can just... well, dodge all their attacks no problem. It's not that I found the game hard; I found it boring and montonous at points, because it just does the same shtick over and over again. It's the parts where the game spams enemies at you in more crapmed spaces that becomes more of an issue, especially if said enemies appear right in front of you (say, after you take a teleporter). Yes, you can dodge them, but that doesn't mean that it was a good design choice, because how was I suppoesd to know that would happen? At the end of the day, Doom 1 felt like enemies were placed with greater thought than Doom 2. Case in point: that level on HMP which has 2 Spider Masterminds placed right next to eachother in it (I think it's either Map 28 or 29). Because that's fun (NOT - and, it's worse because the game expects you to cheese it with an Invincibility orb, rather than actually engaging with them - coming back to my earlier point of rocket/BFG spam).
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Ah yes, big-ass open map infested with monsters, truly a masterclass in level design *chef kiss*.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,769
I agree with those saying Doom 2's level design is lacking. It's nowhere near as refined as Doom 1 was.

It kind of feels the same as Lost Levels did to Mario 1.
 

Futaleufu

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
3,910
Doom 1 is better in every way, except for the episodic structure (which I appreciate was due to the market at the time).

Yeah, dont mention the new enemies in Doom 2 at all but you probably have some reason to hate them too.

Ah yes, big-ass open map infested with monsters, truly a masterclass in level design *chef kiss*.

There is this mechanic called "monster infighting" in Doom. You are not supposed to fight every enemy by yourself.
 

Lork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
843
I could have sworn it was real like I'd seen it before.

Is there an original? What did it originally say?
I don't think there was an original. Take a look at the rocket blast marks on the wall behind the cyberdemon. No official version of Doom had anything like that - the screenshot was taken with a modern source port like ZDoom.