Capcom vs SNK2, Geese potentially defeats Shin Akuma, God Rugal, Morrigan, Bison, Batsu, and Orochi Iori.
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The Next DEATH BATTLE is Heihachi Mishima (Tekken Series) vs Geese Howard (Fatal Fury/King of Fighters)
- Thread starter TheGamingNewsGuy
- Start date
You kind of have to ignore the non canon crossover games, otherwise Heihachi is beating up Astaroth and Nightmare with his bare hands in Soul Calibur II, and Kratos, Dante, and Raiden in PSABR.
What feats have we seen from Geese though? Like I said, it's hard to tell with him and other KoF characters since they're not depicted cinematically. He's at least as powerful as the main characters of KoF isn't he? Like Terry, Kyo, etc and I assume in KoF they are supposed to be powerful enough to defeat the main baddies who are also gods and demons and the like. Akuma''s abilities may sound impressive but they're just more vague supernatural powers which don't necessarily bridge any unknowns in power levels. It says it uses the 'weight of sins', but what if Geese isn't weighed down by any of that? Geese can channel lightning, which is extremely powerful! A direct hit from lightning would be very harmful, to say the least especially if it's focused in an attack.
I don't think Fatal Fury Geese who fell off a building was depicted as using the powers of 'Gaia' which are seemingly part of the overall deity mythos in KoF. Is Fatal Fury Geese the same as KoF Geese? KoF Geese is alive and well so he either survived falling off a building with no permanent injury or he's a different Geese. He even tells Terry that he's immortal apparently, so I dunno. SNK continuity is messy.
It just seems like trying to argue about a character whose power levels are depicted through cutscenes vs one that isn't. You can say that Geese's ki abilities aren't powerful enough, but there's nothing either way to suggest that they aren't. How do we compare Akuma's Hadoken to Geese's attacks in terms of speed or power? I think saying Ki attacks are pointless doesn't really work, or we could say that Heihachi could defeat Goku. Not that Geese in on that level, but there's some uncertainty about where his Ki power levels are at, other than that they're powered by the spirit/deity of earth.
Heihachi is top tier in Tekken and would be in KoF, but SNK tiers are weird in that they aren't defined through cutscenes very much and you kind of have to go on a sort of vague assumption through who seems to be at or near the top and rarely is there any Heihachi like figure who is the ultimate badass or whatever. SNK is more about having the main heroic characters and main villains, which seems to be how they suggest who is the higher tier. Like Terry, Kyo, Iori, Rugal etc are higher tier than Kim or Joe or Leona or whoever.
Again, you're not listening.
The SGS is an attack so powerful that it murdered the Final Bosses of Street Fighter II and Street Fighter III in a single hit. Are there any examples of Geese having any attacks on that level? Anywhere? In Fatal Fury or KOF?
no, there aren't. Are there any examples of Geese surviving an attack on that level? No, there aren't- just as there aren't any examples of Geese surviving being thrown off a mountain or blown several miles away in an explosion and coming out of it unharmed which is also stuff Heihachi has done.
Yet, we see that even an attack THIS powerful- which is by definition a Ki attack that assaults the body and soul- is not enough to kill, knock out, or even knock DOWN an *exhausted* Heihachi Mishima who simply tanked that attack with durability alone. Because Geese isn't this powerful, he has no shot against Heihachi. It's that simple.
And no- Heihachi's power levels aren't just "depicted in cutscenes" that would be absurd. His in-game feats if you want to use them are on a higher tier. In a death battle everything is on the table, and here we have Heihachi fighting more powerful opponents than Geese does, and tanking more damage than he puts out. Routinely. From envionmental hazards and in the ring. At twice the age.
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The absence of Geese being depicted as surviving these events does not show that he could not do so. He's apparently survived falling off a tall building, but beyond that there's nothing to suggest anything either way in comparison to Heihachi surviving what he has.
You're trying to say that Geese not having something or other means that he isn't as powerful, but all that means is that he hasn't been shown doing so. It doesn't mean he can't, it means we don't know what his capability is because the information is limited in comparison.
Again, Akuma's ultimate 'assaulting body and soul' is indeterminate in the extent of its power, it's just a vague way to say that it's really strong. Like, sure, it takes out the main bosses in a couple of games, but then you as the player are supposed to be able to defeat him regardless. So either the main bosses are weaker than the other characters (since it isn't a guaranteed one hit kill on the player) or the implication would be that nobody could ever defeat Akuma, which probably isn't true.
KoF Geese and FF/AoF Geese are seperate characters, yeah. KoF Geese has not died at any point in its story.
One of the crazier feats in KoF is Takuma deflecting a satellite laser with a ki attack. It's hard to judge where Geese is at since he is more often acting behind the scenes, but it's probably safe to say KoF powerscaling is higher than FF/AoF.
I'm not familiar with Tekken stuff though, so I'm not going to try to argue who would win.
Geese survived falling from a building in Fatal Fury 1. It's more like he dies in RBFF due to getting beaten up and then falling from a building - and he doesn't die in the KoF continuity anyway. RBFF's events generally still happen in KoF though since Terry still takes Rock with him.
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So in the Manga, Geese fought Verse, Verse is one of the strongest fighters in KOF and possesses the souls of Mizuki, Rugal, Gaidel, Orochi, Krizalid, Igniz, Ash and many others.
Geese straight up beats Verse who has the souls of some of the big bads of King of Fighters and created a significant storm
If you count the manga, Geese is like in the Top Tier of the King of Fighters Universe
Geese straight up beats Verse who has the souls of some of the big bads of King of Fighters and created a significant storm
If you count the manga, Geese is like in the Top Tier of the King of Fighters Universe
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He cannot escape wrong death.Well if Geese ends up getting killed, it better be through the running gag of suffering a Disney Villain Death; he wouldn't "predictabo" his way out of that! Heihachi may be old, but he's absolutely no slouch; guy can still manage to catch bullets with teeth!
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Geese beating Verse in the KOF14 Manga kinda baffles me as like - Verse is canoically one of the strongest KOF charcters who cause damage to the space-time continum with his mere existance and is the embodiment of hate and rage with the souls of Zero,Orochi and Ash and Geese was like "you aren't shit" and stomps him into the ground.
you appear to be confused. It's important to establish a separation between "Lore" and "Gameplay."
In "Gameplay" almost anything could happen. You could beat Akuma or Seth with Dan Hibiki, because it's fun for the player and the mechanics allow it. In "Gameplay" F-tier characters (like Dan in SF or Josie in Tekken) could potentially survive a SGS or other similar ultimate attack, or even defeat all comers to become world champion.
"Lore" is what *actually* happened according to the developers and the plot and "Lore" is what we go by when discussing these things- otherwise we have Heihachi beating True Ogre, Devil Jin, Unknown, Azazel, etc which puts him so far past where Geese Howard is that there's no point even having this thread. Heihachi would be a God.
According to "Lore", the SGS is a one hit kill whenever Akuma uses it, outside of certain very specific counters. When Akuma has used it, the target is killed- and this is true against extremely powerful characters like M. Bison and Gill, who were not killed randomly in "gameplay" but established to have been killed via the lore.
Per the lore, not "anyone" could beat these people, they were head and shoulders above nearly everyone else in the world- and Akuma kills them in seconds with a single attack because Akuma IS the world's most powerful fighter (with the possible exception of Oro and Evil Ryu) by a very, very wide margin. If you've played any Street Fighter, this is obvious. None of the others are anywhere close to him and this includes the Boss characters. This makes sense, because Akuma in SSFIIT was a hidden "super boss" character that took a high amount of skill to even reach.
Akuma *cannot* do the same to Heihachi as he did to Gouken, Goutetsu, M.Bison, and Gill, because Heihachi is too powerful- far more powerful than all of these- and tanks it. This is not "gameplay" this is lore and established in the narrative.
There are no canon examples of Geese Howard having an attack as powerful as the SGS, nor surviving an attack as powerful as the SGS which is why Heihachi wins this. Not that hard. If you have these canon examples, please post them- because examples of Heihachi being too fast, powerful, and durable for Geese to hurt are all over this thread.
Well, at least according to Geese's KoF XIV ending Verse wasn't actually fully awakened and there was some kind of failure in the ritual. The ending also has Hein mentioning that Geese fought by himself during most of the tournament. Of course, Geese's actual role in XIV only will be clear by the time we get the backstories for XV.
Heihachi's specialty is throwing people into volcanoes, and Geese's specialty is falling off of high places.
Geese has at least two things in his favor, along with everything else established by him. One is the Jin Scrolls. The other is being the "OG" SNK baddie.
Again, you're using an absence to try and prove something. It doesn't work that way. We don't know what the power levels of Geese's abilities are compared to Akuma's because there's no direct comparison. Is there some objective measuring stick you believe exists, because saying 'Heihachi did or survived X' or Akuma's ultimate move is this powerful in his games doesn't prove anything about Geese's power level. The only conclusion that can be reasonably drawn in this case would be to say that we don't know.
Does Geese have the ability to one shot kill the world's most powerful fighters? yes or no?
He's never been in that situation really, so we don't know. If we include that manga posted above he basically one shots one of the most powerful fighters in his universe.
Of course he has. He's been in tournaments since Fatal Fury 1. The answer is "no" and since he doesn't, he loses to Heihachi since that's the power level you need to be at to hurt that guy.
And if we're going to use additional lore like mangas and movies, then you're arguing against "Mokujin Monster" Heihachi who is as tall as a mountain and more powerful than Devil Jin.
Fatal Fury Geese is not the same character as KoF Geese. KoF Geese is more of a background character. And I repeat, the lack of doing something doesn't prove that one cannot do something. It only means that they haven't done something. If they had tried and failed, then you may have something to stand on here, but that's not what we're talking about.
Depends with the manga and its canonicity. Is it 'additional lore' or is it a manga version of the game narrative?
Neither can Heihachi. Do we have a canon match of Akuma one shotting Geese ?
Pretty sure the prompt just says "geese howard" and doesn't specify which one. Proving that at least one version of him has been killed by way less power than Heihachi puts out is absolutely valid.
This is silly. If Geese howard was powerful enough to defeat the rest of the KOF universe in a single hit *as Akuma is and does all the time* then it would have been displayed, stated, or otherwise indicated *as it is for Akuma all the time*. It hasn't been, and no feat Geese has ever done has put him at this level. So it means he can't, here.
One might say getting into tournaments and being killed is indicative of "failing" to be able to defeat one's opponent in a single hit.
If we're talking Tekken: Blood Vengeance it's of questionable canonicity but fully approved by Namco. In fact "Mokujin Monster" Heihachi was so overpowered it needed express approval from Namco before being included.
The point is that Heihachi has been demonstrated taking the full power of the SGS without so much as being knocked down. That attack IS a one hit kill and repeatedly demonstrated to be so against extremely powerful characters. There is a specific counter to it that allows survival, but Heihachi doesn't have it. Unless Geese has an attack of similar potency, he's not going to be able to do enough damage to Heihachi to win the fight.
edit: and outside of the SGS in Tekken 7, the explosion in Tekken 5 is on the same tier. The narrator explicitly says it would have killed anyone else- but only knocks out Heihachi for a little while after throwing him a distance of several miles. You can probably include being thrown off that mountain in Tekken 1 in the same boat. Heihachi repeatedly tanks damage that would absolutely, positively kill anyone else but him.
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With Geese being defeated in Fatal Fury, we don't know how strong Terry is in comparison to Akuma or other street fighter characters either, so Geese being defeated by him doesn't mean that Akuma is higher power level than them, it just means that in his universe he is one of the top tier. For all we know, Akuma's ultimate may not be as effective against the 'Gaia' ki power in the Fatal Fury/KoF universe. Since there's no way to be sure of how these powers compare in strength and speed with each other, all we can say is that we don't know which are more powerful. Since there isn't a lot of outside gameplay depictions of power levels in SNK games, it's hard to gauge what their destructive ability is.
Akuma in lore is flat out stated to be the most powerful man on the planet, with the possible exception of Oro. In Street Fighter Alpha 2 he punches an island in half and sinks it into the sea.
edit: there's also this bit of nonsense:
Note: In many of Akuma's SF appearances he is seeking to "test" his opponent and not going all out. This isn't the case for Tekken 7. He's been sent to murder Heihachi and Kazuya, not test their strength.
Saying "we don't know if Akuma is a higher power level than Terry Bogard" is lunacy. He's far past him. Being able to tank Akuma's ultimate attack puts Heihachi on a significantly higher tier.
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So, someone mentioned Takuma from KoF deflected a satellite laser. I looked this up some more and watched the endings from KoF 2000, and apparently it was capable of destroying an entire city, while Terry and other were in it and they survived with only hurt shoulders or something. The fact that Takuma even caught the laser is impressive as it apparently only takes like a under a second to travel to earth (and he did so just as it was about to strike). I think it would be fair to say that Geese is at least on the same level as Takuma and Terry. Kula survived being on the sattelite when it exploded too.
To me, the capability to deflect a laser that itself can nuke a city seems more impressive than catching bullets or surviving robots exploding.
To me, the capability to deflect a laser that itself can nuke a city seems more impressive than catching bullets or surviving robots exploding.
Space lasers? We got those.
Mishima Zaibatsu's Orbital Laser Satellite
Mishima Zaibatsu's orbital laser satellite is a weapon of mass destruction created by Doctor Abel. It is initially depicted as a two-panelled satellite, and later as a five-panelled satellite, sitting in orbit above the Earth. It is capable of shooting a red laser down to the surface with expert...
tekken.fandom.com
Unable to injure or kill Devil Kazuya or Akuma, despite not being blocked.
The space laser was destroyed by a blast from Devil Kazuya, who was on the ground at the time, as seen here:
You know who defeated Devil Kazuya?
Heihachi.
It says in that link that they survived it destroying a building, which isn't exactly the same yield as being in (or deflecting) a city nuking blast.Space lasers? We got those.
Mishima Zaibatsu's Orbital Laser Satellite
Mishima Zaibatsu's orbital laser satellite is a weapon of mass destruction created by Doctor Abel. It is initially depicted as a two-panelled satellite, and later as a five-panelled satellite, sitting in orbit above the Earth. It is capable of shooting a red laser down to the surface with expert...
Unable to injure or kill Devil Kazuya or Akuma, despite not being blocked.
You know who did defeat Devil Kazuya?
Heihachi.
The laser is a precision device. It destroyed a building because Heihachi only *wanted* a building destroyed. It blew up way more than that when it fell out of the sky.
"worst man made disaster in history" and Tekken has a LOT of pretty terrible disasters.
Regardless, it's a bit of ABC logic since neither example uses the man in question, but other characters adjacent to them.
Yes, but it's presumably using less power if it's used to destroy something smaller. And then we have Kula destroying Zero's laser while standing on it without being injured.
This isn't true at all. Extremely high yield high precision output devices are absolutely a thing- especially if you're talking a laser which is a focused light beam.
edit: or to put it another way, Heihachi wasn't trying to blow up a building. He was trying to kill two Gods that were IN that building. How much power does it take to kill a god?
We don't need an attack of similar potency to win the fight, as Heihachi already lost fights against opponents not having SGS.
The whole Akuma argument is otherwise silly, as no fighting game director will let him kill a major character of their serie. If Akuma lands in KoF, his SGS will also will be countered by whatever character the director want.
In the end I stand by my position, without any kind of energy projection attack, Heihachi may be fucked as Geese can counter basically anything he does.
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I hope we get Jimmy Neutron vs Dexter and Alucard vs Dio soon. I'd probably give those to Jimmy and Alucard because Jimmy is worse at efficiency but more capable of thinking on his feet and Dio has no reasonable method of putting Alucard down permanently. He'd straight up have to outlast Alucard endurance-wise
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Dio vs Alucard is straight up happening this season. They hinted at it for the Doctor Doom preveiw with the mentioning of Alucard. Plus it's Liam Swan who is one of the head writers of DB/head researcher most requested DEATH BATTLE alongside Chosen Undead vs Dragonborn. It's definetly going to happen this season
In terms of fights that are most likely to happen this season:
Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly (Steven Universe was hinted at in Season 7 finale and Steven Universe's most popular request by a landslide so it's very likely to happen)
Mikasa Ackerman (Attack on Titan) vs Blake Belladona (An Attack on Titan charcter was hinted at the Season 7 Finale and Blake vs Mikasa is the most popular Attack on Titan matchup)
Link (Legend of Zelda) vs Cloud (Final Fantasy) 2 (Heavily hinted at on DBC as being Episode 150 and Cloud was teased at the Season 7)
Dio Brando (JoJo's Bizzare Adventure) vs Alucard (Hellsing) (Heavily hinted at from Saberwulf's preveiw last year and Doctor Doom's preveiw)
In terms of fights i am slightly less sure but think are extremely likely
Madara (Naruto) vs Aizen (Bleach) (The biggest Naruto fight they haven't done - besides maybe Naruto vs Luffy and they have indicated this fight will happen at some point)
Galactus (Marvel) vs Unicron (Transformers) (One of the biggest requests that still has yet to happen and Ben intentionally dodged the question relating to this fight)
I would say Cole vs Alex is likely but i am less sure on that
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Pretty interesting that the crew mention Heihachi's bullet catching feat, then following up with the tomahawk catching feat. Even if we were to account for the Tekken OVA, the bullet catching feat would be far more impressive. 1.) Given Heihachi was more older and 2.) just for the size and sheer velocity of a bullet compared to throwing a tomahawk.
Doesn't Heihachi have lightning attacks too?
A direct hit from his lightning would be very harmful, to say the least especially if it's focused in an attack.
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https://deathbattle.fandom.com/wiki/Liam_Swan
For those who are wondering Boomstick saying Swan is a dumb name was a reference to
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Death Battle Predictions: Heihachi Mishima VS Geese Howard
Fatherhood. One of the most beautiful aspects of life in the human cycle. To raise one's own into a functioning member of society with the...
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It was only ever going to end one way. Heihachi just has a massively higher damage cap and about 3 more decades of fighting experience.
I see. I treat the animations as being dramatic for the sake of entertaining the audience. The actual fight likely wouldn't play out that way.
As DB says in the post fight- "both fighters have the tenacity and martial arts mastery to push each other to the limit, but one just has greater limits to push."
Heihachi also has several decades of experience over Howard, including defeating Aikido masters like Asuka, Nina, and Anna, so Howard's style wouldn't exactly be new to him. There were a lot of reversals in the animation that Heihachi just wouldn't be caught by.
The power, defense, and experience advantage goes to Mishima, and not by a small margin.
boy that one was disappointing. doing Heihachi in 2D doesn't do him justice, and it felt like they left a lot of his iconic/flashier moves on the table.
plus you knew the old man would win as soon as it was set on a mountain, he just jobbed for a few minutes before inevitably winning
plus you knew the old man would win as soon as it was set on a mountain, he just jobbed for a few minutes before inevitably winning