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nihilence

nøthing but silence
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
15,937
From 'quake area to big OH.
Currently, Grim Fandango.
Connecting the dots on what you're supposed to do is pure tedium of trial and error.

Metal Gear.
Strip off all your clothes and smoke a cigarette to jump off a bridge.

Who thinks this stuff up?
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
I'm loving everything about Kid Icarus Uprising, but man... those controls hurt. It makes fuckups frustrating when they happen :/

The stylus aiming stuff is fun, I love that part. Its the mangling of my hand in ground mode lol
 
May 19, 2020
4,828
can't imagine being new to destiny 2 in 2020. "where's the story, what do these different materials do, where do i go, what guns are good, how do i do the raids i've heard about, why are there three different colors of hive, why do i have to go to the tower for bounties instead of a menu, is there a story" and so on and so on and so on
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,603
The Last Remnant. I was so pissed after being hyped for a new square RPG on 360. I bought a strategy guide for it because I felt so powerless. Even the fucking strategy guide for combat and bosses boiled down to, "hope your squad AI does this here" constantly because you didn't have direct control. It was maddening on top of looking ugly and running terribly.
 

EggmaniMN

Banned
May 17, 2020
3,465
No worries, just a regular round in the videogame Natural Doctrine for PS4

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kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,565
Don't Starve. It's an unfun Harvest Moon/Story Of Seasons made for masochist who don't mind only playing one game for the rest of their live.
 

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,664
Wonderful 101. Absolutely absurd controls and so difficult to wrap your mind around the gameplay that it wasn't any fun for me. Great for those that made it through though, more power to you.
 

Flon

Is Here to Kill Chaos
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,120
Sometimes I like to play old school first person dungeon crawlers and those definitely share a lot of obtuse problems, many because of technical problems but also they seemed to have preserved that even in more modern takes.

You're only able to see at most 2-3 tiles ahead of you. There's minimal graphical elements to distinguish items or points of interest. Enemies can randomly come in extreme numbers and can wipe you out quickly, or even have destructive abilities (like de-leveling you). And near the end of the game they always go into chaos where you're thrown into teleporting labyrinths designed to disorientate you, or you're left smashing yourself into every wall hoping for a secret entrance, or backtracking for hours and hours... or all of them and plenty more.

And yet I love them. The frustration and amount of material you need sometimes outside of the game just appeals to me.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
A lot of the puzzles in AI: Somnium Files feel really obtuse and arbitrary.

Gacha games almost always feel like this, especially if they've been running for a long time. There are always like a zillion different currencies, a complete clusterfuck of a menu, fifty game modes, dozens of things you're supposed to do per day, and sometimes a bunch of "noob traps" that you're supposed to avoid because they're "inefficient." And a new player has no way of knowing any of it because the in-game tutorial is either crap or outdated. Searching online has people being helpful, except they often refer to things that only an experienced player would understand.

Requests for help online look something like this to a beginner.

Helpful person 1: Make sure you do x, but don't do y unless you have z.
Helpful person 2: But they shouldn't do that unless they have f and g, and they're going for c.
Helpful person 1: Good point. Make sure you do r instead then. It's a better way to get for what you're going for.
Me: *blankest look on the planet*
 
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J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,830
USA
Most, if not all, modern fighting games.

I love them but the logic that they operate on at high level play generally doesn't make intuitive sense with reality. Some games embrace this fact and just go full stylish (anime fighters) but the mechanics of Street Fighter and even Mortal Kombat (which is markedly more accessible) tend not to make sense to most people I know.

It's all built on a canon of pro players digging really deep into analysis on frame data and other stuff that's not obvious or explainable to the naked eye and takes a lot more thinking and understanding of under-the-hood game systems than most fighting game acclimated players tend to think about anymore. It's a very hard sell to anyone that hasn't picked up that kind of thought processing from other video games already or grew up as fighting games matured organically from the player base digging deep into them in the arcade days.

Trying to explain to someone that it's a game about fighting one another, but then trying to explain the logic of something like meaties is kinda mind-bending to them, because meaties is entirely video game logic where a move is actively harmful in states that don't exactly look like they carry the kind of momentum to be harmful. "His arm is just hanging there, therefore it will hurt" is not what most people think of when they think of fighting. On the other hand, footsies is kinda easy to explain in a realistic manner, but there's a whole lot of stuff like meaties and hurtboxes and frame data that's much more obtuse and complicated to puzzle together, especially at the breakneck pace that pro players will interpret and weave all of these concepts together in mere milliseconds.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
Most, if not all, modern fighting games.

I love them but the logic that they operate on at high level play generally doesn't make intuitive sense with reality. Some games embrace this fact and just go full stylish (anime fighters) but the mechanics of Street Fighter and even Mortal Kombat (which is markedly more accessible) tend not to make sense to most people I know.

It's all built on a canon of pro players digging really deep into analysis on frame data and other stuff that's not obvious or explainable to the naked eye and takes a lot more thinking and understanding of under-the-hood game systems than most fighting game acclimated players tend to think about anymore. It's a very hard sell to anyone that hasn't picked up that kind of thought processing from other video games already or grew up as fighting games matured organically from the player base digging deep into them in the arcade days.

Trying to explain to someone that it's a game about fighting one another, but then trying to explain the logic of something like meaties is kinda mind-bending to them, because meaties is entirely video game logic where a move is actively harmful in states that don't exactly look like they carry the kind of momentum to be harmful. "His arm is just hanging there, therefore it will hurt" is not what most people think of when they think of fighting. On the other hand, footsies is kinda easy to explain in a realistic manner, but there's a whole lot of stuff like meaties and hurtboxes and frame data that's much more obtuse and complicated to puzzle together, especially at the breakneck pace that pro players will interpret and weave all of these concepts together in mere milliseconds.
I find fighting game lingo incredibly unintuitive too. What the fuck does the word "meaty" have to do with a move you do when someone else is waking up? I'm not even sure if I have that definition right.

Then there are street names for certain moves that only passed by word of mouth. Or notation that uses move names instead of inputs.
 

SuzanoSho

Member
Dec 25, 2017
1,466
Right now? Assassin's Creed Valhalla...

The bugs/crashes are as prevalent as any gameplay mechanic I've ever dealt with...
 

Dsezer

Member
Sep 22, 2020
353
Resonance of Fate is hard...I bought the 4K edition for PS4 and was initially stuck on practice arena lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
27,856
Castlevania II

Couldn't figure out what to do until the internet came along and I saw a walkthrough....


Boy and his Blob on NES as well
 
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Ballpoint Ren

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,425
Canada
Wonderful 101. Absolutely absurd controls and so difficult to wrap your mind around the gameplay that it wasn't any fun for me. Great for those that made it through though, more power to you.
Love The Wonderful 101. The initial release on WiiU could have used a little more clarity in it's tutorials, but the Remastered release improved on this a lot. The controls have a biig learning curve, for sure, but once you get it down it's on par, if not better, than Bayonetta or Devil May Cry.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
Phasmophobia is completely impenetrable to me. Seems generous to even call it an alpha build.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,524
Most, if not all, modern fighting games.

I love them but the logic that they operate on at high level play generally doesn't make intuitive sense with reality. Some games embrace this fact and just go full stylish (anime fighters) but the mechanics of Street Fighter and even Mortal Kombat (which is markedly more accessible) tend not to make sense to most people I know.

It's all built on a canon of pro players digging really deep into analysis on frame data and other stuff that's not obvious or explainable to the naked eye and takes a lot more thinking and understanding of under-the-hood game systems than most fighting game acclimated players tend to think about anymore. It's a very hard sell to anyone that hasn't picked up that kind of thought processing from other video games already or grew up as fighting games matured organically from the player base digging deep into them in the arcade days.

Trying to explain to someone that it's a game about fighting one another, but then trying to explain the logic of something like meaties is kinda mind-bending to them, because meaties is entirely video game logic where a move is actively harmful in states that don't exactly look like they carry the kind of momentum to be harmful. "His arm is just hanging there, therefore it will hurt" is not what most people think of when they think of fighting. On the other hand, footsies is kinda easy to explain in a realistic manner, but there's a whole lot of stuff like meaties and hurtboxes and frame data that's much more obtuse and complicated to puzzle together, especially at the breakneck pace that pro players will interpret and weave all of these concepts together in mere milliseconds.

I feel like unless you are planning on getting very good at a fighting game, you don't need to know any of that stuff. If you just want to pick up a fighting game and go, the most you'll need to know is spacing and moves. The rest comes when you decide you want to bother with understanding the intricacies of the game for playing against other humans who ALSO want to be very good.

But like...you can pick up a fighting game and just play and have fun without ever even glimpsing at the frame data.
 

Korghano

Member
Oct 25, 2017
188
Middle Earth Shadow of War.

I've tried twice, and each time the "tutorial" for that game is so scatter-brained and interrupty (made that up) that I just can't bother getting past the siege of Minas Ithil.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,153
The Last Remnant. I was so pissed after being hyped for a new square RPG on 360. I bought a strategy guide for it because I felt so powerless. Even the fucking strategy guide for combat and bosses boiled down to, "hope your squad AI does this here" constantly because you didn't have direct control. It was maddening on top of looking ugly and running terribly.

I just bought Last Remnant as I've been on a huge Saga kick lately. To be honest, I really have no idea what is going on in any of them. I actually can't even say that I enjoy the obtuseness, but there is something that I love about them so I keep playing.
 
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dodo667418

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,695
No worries, just a regular round in the videogame Natural Doctrine for PS4

Lmao this so much. I thought something like Resonance of Fate was confusing (yet charming in its own way). Then I played Natural Doctrine. What the fuck was that game. I remember it being super difficult and unforgiving on top of the abstruseness of the gameplay.
 

Shopolic

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,866
For me, it was Bayonetta.
I love this genre and Bayonetta has an amazing gameplay, but the character design and the atmosphere of this game forced me to leave it. I don't remember any other game that I loved to play but didn't because of the character.
 

guiloahhhhh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,733
God probably the original and easy choice is Superman 64. Was immensely excited as a 10 year old to get it and play this game based of the animated tv show.

I'm flying through rings???? To what purpose???? One of the few times I've ever just said fuck it and dropped a game. Especially back in those days pre good internet etc with no easy solutions. Felt like it was impossible to fly through the rings as well.

Dreams and Offworld trading company frustrate me as well as Eve because I'd like to enjoy them in theory but they have a lot of layers. I may come back to all of those games but they are very dense in terms of systems. Dreams in particular I'll mess with some more hours and it doesn't seem poorly designed. Just the amount of control you have can be tough to manage and a bit intimidating.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,796
I had pretty much no idea what to do in Legacy of the Wizard on NES as a kid. Falcom would eventually become one of my favorite developers though, so it all worked out.
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001
I was about to say most classic point and click games. But OP has kind of hinted at that already with grim fandango... Some solutions, combinations and the order of things are super random and illogical. You end up just trying all possibilities until something happens to work and it makes the solution completely unsatisfying.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
Sam and Max Hit the Road

Love those games so much but I once spent over $90.00 calling the lucasarts hotline that would give you a walkthrough of a particular section. The solutions to those LucasArts Adventure games just made no sense.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
The ones that come to mind for me are Warframe and Path of Exile. They just keep adding new systems into the game and it makes it impossible to learn what's important and not important.
 

Snagret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,782
no game has ever frustrated me as deeply as Siren did
I think this is my answer too.

Playing as multiple characters with timeline that's criss crossing and jumping around. Half of the game involves you picking up innocuous items and leaving them in random places in order for another character at a different point in the timeline to come along and pick it up, without knowing why it's important. Thematically the characters have absolutely no reason to pick up a screwdriver in a car and then leave it in a drawer in one of the random houses they can enter into. I'm convinced it's an impossible game to beat without a guide.

Wildly ambitious for its time, oppressive intense atmosphere, but genuinely befuddling structure.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,167
Washington, D.C.
The Last Remnant. I was so pissed after being hyped for a new square RPG on 360. I bought a strategy guide for it because I felt so powerless. Even the fucking strategy guide for combat and bosses boiled down to, "hope your squad AI does this here" constantly because you didn't have direct control. It was maddening on top of looking ugly and running terribly.
The sheer randomness in The Last Remnant in relation to how the battle system works will never cease to confound me.
 
Mar 8, 2018
1,161
Honestly Jedi Fallen Order can be extremely frustrating. Not generally, but any time it requires precise platforming I want to rage.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,019
Ah yes. Back in 1980 something a friend gave me a copy of Milon's Secret Castle for NES. No manual, no box, just a bare cart.

This was also before the internet existed, so no way to look up what on earth was going on in that insane fucking game.

I have never been so confused in my life as I was with THAT mess