AgreedIn Civil War he was fighting for a serial killer/assassin because « childhood friend »
He was in the wrong and couldn't even own up to it, fighting Stark despite his friend having killed both of Tony's parents.
That was disgraceful
AgreedIn Civil War he was fighting for a serial killer/assassin because « childhood friend »
He was in the wrong and couldn't even own up to it, fighting Stark despite his friend having killed both of Tony's parents.
That was disgraceful
I just want to add, I know Silvestri gets a ton of well-deserved praise for his work on Cap and the Avengers, but Henry Jackman's contributions to the Cap movies are criminally underrated. This shit is quintessentially Cap and hype as hell. He captures both the bittersweet melancholy at the heart of the character and the idealistic aspirational martial fantasy.
I like Cap well enough but he's kind of a flat character. He has character development but he's kinda stagnant.
I mean I guess that's part of the point.
Good joke.
Man's an unapologetic war profiteer, a bit of whimpering and taking on a good-hearted protege in Peter doesn't change that.
Stark hasn't been a war profiteer for the majority of his time screen. It's a plot point in Iron Man and Iron Man 2. That's why his company has taken a hit, and he's been investing in new energy sources - like in Avengers. You're confusing him with Obadiah Stane. Stark's gone though more than a "little whimpering" - that's cold, considering how damaged his psyche has been over the MCU. Unlike Cap who thinks introspection is something to do with washing laundry.
And as was also pointed out, he continues to make the same sorts of mistakes over and over again. If he is introspective, he makes incredlible baby steps after each moment of such.Guilt ridden? Is that why he's throwing his friends who did nothing wrong under the bus for something he was primarily responsible for and they had to help him clean up?
And as was also pointed out, he continues to make the same sorts of mistakes over and over again. If he is introspective, he makes incredlible baby steps after each moment of such.
Like I'm aware, man practically has PTSD after the first Avengers. But, he's a fictional character, and outside of that, it doesn't absolve him of continuing to make mistakes.
However, like I also said, I'm a bit biased I suppose- I never liked him. Not in Iron-Man 1, not in Iron-Man 2, and I only saw 3 out of obligation to the rest of the MCU. I admit he's a better character now but I just... am not fond of him. Don't hate him perse, either, but... Like, cocky assholes can be fun, but they can also be really annoying, and for me, he falls into that camp for a lot of his screentime. Really hope the speculation of either Rhodey or Pepper replacing him as Iron Man after a heroic sacrifice in Endgame comes to fruition. In part because I'm just tired of Tony Stark, in part because it'd actually kind of actually redeem his character in his eyes.
Everyone who likes Captain America should see this masterpiece.
Even as an obsessively comic book reading kid, I had an unconscious aversion to the stereotypical, lantern jawed hero archetype. I had little to no patience for your Hal Jordans or Barry Allens. But the movie Captain America caused me to appreciate the character in a way I never had before. While I was never a huge Captain America kid growing up, the movies lent him a sense of vulnerability that has made him the heart of the MCU movies in my mind.
Everyone who likes Captain America should see this masterpiece.
Everyone who likes Captain America should see this masterpiece.
Can't believe some of the shit I'm reading in this thread.
Tony was clearly in the wrong, but Zemo had specifically orchestrated for him to find out the information about his parents' death at the worst possible time under extreme duress. Yeah, Steve should have told him, and under better conditions, I think it might have gone over okay. But Tony flew off the handle, and it bit him in the ass, because it directly broke up the Avengers. Flash forward to Infinity War when he's going out into space solo to save Strange with a stowaway Spider-Man, if the Avengers were still together and had gone with them to meet up with Thanos on Titan, they would've gotten that gauntlet off 100% because they are a better team than the mix-up of Guardians and Tony/Pete/Strange. It's irony that the reason they lost the fight was because Quill lost his head over the knowledge of Gamora's death, to which Tony pleads with him to cool it. Full circle right there.
Take a Stand is the best MCU theme after the Avengers one for me.
I don't see how you can say that if you've watched all the movies.
With First Avenger he's an underdog that's willing to do whatever it takes to serve his country and fight bad guys overseas and does his patriotic duty. Then through the events in Avengers that Shield is using hydra weaponry, something he sacrificed himself for back in the day so those weapons wouldn't be used again, while that information being hidden from him, he starts to doubt. In Winter Soldier, it comes to a head with Fury and the helicarriers and then the obvious uprising of Hydra within Shield's ranks that makes him not trust organizations, because as he says in Civil War when the Accords are brought to them, organizations have agendas and he would rather trust himself/The Avengers than a government entity anymore.
Meanwhile, Tony Stark, who went from defying everyone by announcing "I am Iron Man" at the end of his first movie, and continuing to develop more tech, more suits, being a solo hothead, and his mistakes start catching up to him, realizes that they need more accountability and wants that structure and organization, which is a complete 180.
The place both of those characters started and ended are dramatically different.
None of the other Avengers really did anything that warranted oversight besides Stark. And before you say Scarlett Witch, she wouldn't even have superpowers if it wasnt for War Profiteer Tony Stark
I mean while yes you can say it's Tony's fault she has powers. It is her powers that pushed Tony to create Ultron by putting that vision of all of them dying into his head. Also why do people forget that Banner was right there, side by side with Tony in making Ultron.
Tony had nothing to do with how she got powers, that was HYDRA.
When I responded to that post who said It was his fault, I assume the fact that they mention that it was Stark tech bombs that were used on their homeland that led them to agree to the experiments.
I'm not trolling. You lot just got too defensive. I do mean most of what I'm saying, but I'm also making jokes.
How are niggas riding with Stark in 2019
He fucked up so bad with Age of Ultron that he almost got the planet destroyed and then turned it around and threw it in everyone else's face on that "we need to be put in check" shit. Starts tap dancing for Ross and gets the Avengers locked up on property damage. Spies on teenagers to make them assets for him and kicks them to the curb after. Damn near kills Bucky because he's not over his childhood trauma yet despite nobody else in the MCU awarded sympathy this level of emotional immaturity. It was funny how fast checks and due process went out the window when it was HIS shit.
This is all post war monger alcoholic Stark btw.
This would be all well and good but this man barely got checked for any of this shit. It borders on just not being particularly great character writing. He never has to learn anything at all or face serious consequences until Thanos sits his ass down in Infinity War and I'm sure Tony will get his there too.
Cap's got his bullshit too and we'll get to that in another post but he's better than Stark 100%
Banner gets a pass because he was at least open about his doubts and also about keeping everyone else in the dark about itI mean while yes you can say it's Tony's fault she has powers. It is her powers that pushed Tony to create Ultron by putting that vision of all of them dying into his head. Also why do people forget that Banner was right there, side by side with Tony in making Ultron.
Whattttt, Mackie is ace as Falcon and criminally underused IMO. His potential TV Show with Bucky is going to be great.Yep, he is pretty boring.
At least, Black Panther had a great supporting cast to carry him through his solo film. Cap has generic black sidekick no. 2 and emo GI Joe.
Stark hasn't been a war profiteer for the majority of his time screen. It's a plot point in Iron Man and Iron Man 2.
Not quite. Vulture and his team become who they are because of Stark profiting from the mess created during the NY battle in Avengers.
And there's no money in sweeping up advanced alien technology and sticking it into a warehouse somewhere. That's the opposite of "war profiteering".That's not war profiteering, it was containing valuable technology that could be exploited by bad actors in the community. Vulture being the example of this in action.
What's your opinion on HYDRA flunky and Ultron devotee, Scarlet Witch?
You're omitting how the Accords and Ross are operating above Stark in governmental authority, and that it was ether doing what they say or they get put in prison. That's how he was trying to save the Avengers. Cap's plan was to...be a fugitive? Not a lift a finger about the Accords, which only worked in his favour due to the director's letting it slide to focus on Thanos, completely rendering Cap's worries over the Accords as an over reaction not based in reality. That "luck" helped in AoU, as well, every civilian would have died had Fury not evacuated them (which was something he hasn't planned for) and SHIELD itself was disbanded on Cap's orders. Rather than learn from this mistake, Cap simply shrugs it off and it's never bought up again.
No-one is arguing how Stark used Parker was right, that's the whole point of that arc.
Stark working for the Accords was working with consequences, so was the Avengers dividing (not completely, but he played a big role with Cap).
Your completely ignores Cap's mistakes, which had horrific consequences over several films - and all he did was buckle down rather than change. Making the Avengers fugitives, while he had nothing to lose. Not doing anything remotely about the Accords in any capacity to help the Avengers or other Enhanced. Becoming a fugitive himself to save Bucky, risking his life to bring back Bucky back in Winter Soldier (which could have ended up with him dead), Lagos, Cap never reached out to Stark either but it's Stark who bears all that weight in IW, had Cap explained to Stark about his parents deaths Zemo's plan would have failed.
Unlike Cap, Stark hasn't got directors looking out for him, like that. He gets shit from everyone, regardless of what he did or didn't do. Stark has plenty of bad mistakes, and he's answered for them - meanwhile, Cap hasn't answered for anything he got wrong. How is that any better than Stark?
That's not war profiteering, it was containing valuable technology that could be exploited by bad actors in the community. Vulture being the example of this in action.
Yeah, it doesn't make any senseYour original point is stupid though.
1. Bucky did not do what he did of his own free will.
2. Bucky was making efforts to disengage from the situation to prevent violence.
3. Tony was teamed up on because he was the aggressor.
Thanks I really enjoyed this. Now Youtube is giving me a bunch of suggestions for Captain America montages. They all have the kind of inspirational titles you might find on bathroom wall art like "I'll Be There". And they're all basically the same lol
He said something silly in the lift, something like "y'all ready for this"
Cap is a gift. He is the best Avenger. He has remained true to his promise that he made pre-serum; to be a "good man".
He's not just a good man, though, he is quite literally, the best man.
Also he stopped a Helicopter taking off with is bare hands. Oh lawd!
Only Ant-Man comes close to being as wholesome.
Indeed. And he does this in a world that makes it so easy just to throw his hands up and submit to the external forces around him. Instead he's totally steadfast to his promise of doing the right thing even at great personal cost.This is all true. It also always makes me think of how silly Mjolnir is.
That nebulous worthiness that apparently Thor holds when even after the first Thor he's still clearly less selfless and pure than Cap or even Scott are.
(Thor's fucking great now though so who cares)
But he profited from it. It's literally said in Homecoming.
Call it cleanup for reasons of keeping the tech away from bad people (contracts were given to companies to do this very job) but Stark Industries gained at least 2 things. Money and tech.
Can't believe some of the shit I'm reading in this thread.
Tony was clearly in the wrong, but Zemo had specifically orchestrated for him to find out the information about his parents' death at the worst possible time under extreme duress. Yeah, Steve should have told him, and under better conditions, I think it might have gone over okay. But Tony flew off the handle, and it bit him in the ass, because it directly broke up the Avengers. Flash forward to Infinity War when he's going out into space solo to save Strange with a stowaway Spider-Man, if the Avengers were still together and had gone with them to meet up with Thanos on Titan, they would've gotten that gauntlet off 100% because they are a better team than the mix-up of Guardians and Tony/Pete/Strange. It's irony that the reason they lost the fight was because Quill lost his head over the knowledge of Gamora's death, to which Tony pleads with him to cool it. Full circle right there.
Banner gets a pass because he was at least open about his doubts and also about keeping everyone else in the dark about it
He's probably my favourite MCU character but boy did he get a lot of people killed in Infinity War by refusing to just off Vision.
Except Stark isn't repeating those mistakes, he made other ones because the guy's not perfect. It's what makes him human and relatable. Unlike Steve, who never learns or grows from anything - unless it's about hating the government or being paranoid, then he's good to go. It took half the universe dying to get him to acknowledge he fucked up.
Everyone who likes Captain America should see this masterpiece.
Everyone who likes Captain America should see this masterpiece.