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The MCU’s bad habit of setting up a villain just to kill them in the next movie
- Thread starter Uzumaki Goku
- Start date
Yeah, I was confused. The vast majority of villains never make it out of their first Marvel movie. But honestly all CBMs fall into that trap. 1989 Batman killing Joker is still one of the most WTF moments for me.
Ah, didn't bother with that show, was thinking it was just the Netflix stuff.
The suicide Squad films have you following the villains as the protagonists so it's a little different situation. That and Amanda Waller is one of the best comic book villains brought to screen.
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The MCU are bad with villains and 3rd acts. But DC isn't really doing anything on that front, so it's all we got.
I'm confused why they needed to change it. If they wanted to back away from the weirdly questionable moment where Mordo suddenly decided he needed to kill all sorcerers and make a more friendly rival Mordo with cooler hair, they could have just changed 616 a bit.
Right?!? It is baffling people say Marvel has a villain problem while ignoring the black hole of terrible villains that have been in the DC movies.
I liked Ewan as Black Mask too, you can tell he was having fun
The old Batman movies were standalone. They weren't creating a "universe" of movies, and no need to explain a character's death in future movies.
Nowadays they want to tie all the movies together in an MCU so killing off characters isn't so straight forward. They need to explain a return or just never use the character again. The MCU using lesser, more disposable villains for permanent death is an easy out.
i dont think Marvel has the balls to kill Doom, Galactus, Magneto so quickly.
I think they will be safe
I think they will be safe
It was a different time in that there was no extended universe but the Joker is a staple Batman villain. I wasn't even hung up on Batman being a killer as much as the Joker getting killed off like that. Sequels were assured but I bet it was more that WB never wanted to pay Jack that kind of payday again. I think he even got a percentage merchandising lol
I genuinely don't understand why they do this. My theory is they don't have good ideas for how to keep villain's alive, so they kill them off for an easy resolution.
I was really excited when it seemed like Arthur Harrow was going to stay alive in Moon Knight. Then he ended up getting killed off, which was a bummer.
I was really excited when it seemed like Arthur Harrow was going to stay alive in Moon Knight. Then he ended up getting killed off, which was a bummer.
haha ok, yes that's technically true, but the antagonists of Suicide Squad of course aren't Deadshot and Harley Quinn, they're Starro and belly-dancing Cara Delevingne.
I look at it this way. Once Doom is in the MCU, we're set for a recurring villain. Doom will never die; his ongoing rivalry with Reed Richards is a cornerstone of the FF and will be perpetual.
Marvel villains in general are lacking. I've given up on expecting better---they clearly have a working formula and they aren't going to change it up anytime soon.
My guess is that at some point they decided to make sequels more of a pseudo team-up/event movie(with BP2 and Captain Marvel 2 following suit), and threw away any plans for a simple Strange vs Mordo movie. I think the original intent was to kill him 616 Mordo off since they wrote themselves into a corner making him an enemy that they no longer intend to use, while adding another Mordo so Ejiofor can still have a role as per his contract, but they changed their minds on killing 616 since it would have been a waste.
Comic book fans are used to the multiverse cheat code. Comic movie fans might need a little more time accepting how cheap it is as a plot point.
I thought it was dumb with Klaw, especially. He was set up in Age of Ultron, which was 3 years prior to Black Panther, and then he didn't really do much in BP. At least he came back, though, unlike fucking Mac Gargon, where they had two movies to bring him back in, but still did nothing with him.
They need new villains for the sequels so Disney can sell more new toys.
I don't see it as a bad habit, I enjoy it very much. It's dumb to just keep having the clearly bad guy continue to do clearly bad guy things over and over, I want to see them get destroyed. If it can't happen in real life at least it can in the MCU. Actually I mainly liked the bad guys the Avengers went against getting destroyed, because they should. It's boring having the same 3 bad guys on repeat, it's why most people only think of Zod and Lex, because they get trotted out for nearly every movie. Marvel has tons of enemies from comics they can use before they need to make everyone a recurring"threat" that never gets dealt with.
MCU accepting No Way Home as multiverse complicates things. So now Green Goblin is accepted as officially dead unless he's brought back as a multiverse character. He is considered Spider-Man's #1 villain, so now they've handcuffed themselves to a movie history that they didn't create and lost an important character. No problem. Just sprinkle a little multiverse on it.
This is why Dr Strange is such an important support character in Marvel comics. They just use him whenever they need a multiverse character. The multiverse fixes all the canon complications that decades of comics have created.
This is why Dr Strange is such an important support character in Marvel comics. They just use him whenever they need a multiverse character. The multiverse fixes all the canon complications that decades of comics have created.
It's a shame. Like others have said, they seem to be improving that in Phase 4, but I never understood why they were so insistent on killing off the villains.
In Phase 4 though, I don't think any have died other than Arthur Harrow iirc
In Phase 4 though, I don't think any have died other than Arthur Harrow iirc
Tbf that was Tobey's GG who died. There could be a 616 Green Goblin who is well alive in our time.
Honestly this isn't exclusive to the MCU either, seems to be a trend in Superhero movies to find an excuse for why the villain gets killed. Happened in each Raimi movie save for the Sandman.
True, but that's going to be a tough sell. Dafoe showing up as 616 Goblin is where people get confused. Now they've got some 'splainin to do. They could recast, but that wouldn't be very popular either. There's the problem with killing off key characters. Maybe I'm just underestimating the willingness of movie audiences to accept the multiverse as an easy plot point.
If there's going to be multiple Spider-Man movies how can they move on without Goblin? It's like Batman without Joker. It's just a whole lot easier if the MCU doesn't kill off key characters.
I like this tbh. I find recurring villains lame. Just give us a good storyline and move on to the next.
Some are better recurring because they're basically the yin to the hero's yang, but it was perfect for Kilmonger. Came in, made a huge splash, and then just peaced out.
Not a really a villain, though. Avengers were out of line, and needed a reality check.Meanwhile Zemo over here like:
#ZemoDidNothingWrong
Except that The Winter Solider and Civil War had the same writers and directors.
Sometimes ideas change and directions change, and it's not just a matter of someone else coming in a turning everything all around ala the Star Wars ST. We hear of characters and storylines that were cut because they realized they didn't have enough time or wanted to wait or thought it was more important to give that screen time to other characters and storylines and it's the nature of ever-evolving stories. It's basically why Marvel is so particular with what deleted scenes they share because they may always choose to use an idea later or pick up a hook later, and there are plenty of hooks/threads that end up being picked up later, including things that may have not been intended as a hook/thread but can build upon those previous ideas when it makes sense and the pieces fit.
Not really sure why the DCEU keeps getting brought up in this, since they're still struggling to figure out how they even want their cinematic universe to function.
I think The Batman had a fun idea with pulling this off, by setting things up so the other villains can just be hanging out in the background later on. Like how Scarecrow showed up in bits in the other two Nolan films after Begins. That sort of thing also gives them the opportunity to bring them back in a bigger way in TV shows, like how Batroc showed up in Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
We are getting a full blown Agatha show, so alongside Loki at least two have been left alive (sorta) long enough to get dedicated spin-offs.
I think The Batman had a fun idea with pulling this off, by setting things up so the other villains can just be hanging out in the background later on. Like how Scarecrow showed up in bits in the other two Nolan films after Begins. That sort of thing also gives them the opportunity to bring them back in a bigger way in TV shows, like how Batroc showed up in Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
We are getting a full blown Agatha show, so alongside Loki at least two have been left alive (sorta) long enough to get dedicated spin-offs.
The fact that we'll apparently never get to see Arnim Zola evolve into his final Jack Kirby bipedal-robot-with-a-tv-in-his-stomach look is still tragic to me.
How does that suit work? Is his skin red? If so, where are his toes? Is it a red jump suit? How does he get in, through the face hole? WTF???I didn't like how Klaw looks in Black Panther compared to his comic look.
The only time this worked was in Black Panther.
Using Ulysses as a key to get Killmonger into Wakanda and help him secure people's trust / place a power was really smart.
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It's comics, I try not to think of it lol It's his suit that's red.
Threads from 2014...?
Thanos
Kang (eventually)
Loki
Kingpin (almost definitely)
Abomination
And you know they ain't gonna do Doom like that. Also if Sony doesn't fuck everything up, Michael Mando Scorpion could be a great second trilogy Spidey villain
Thanos
Kang (eventually)
Loki
Kingpin (almost definitely)
Abomination
And you know they ain't gonna do Doom like that. Also if Sony doesn't fuck everything up, Michael Mando Scorpion could be a great second trilogy Spidey villain
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That's what I question… Sony and Disney are kinda "sharing" those rights but it's tricky.
For example, I don't think Spider-Man can show up in a Disney Plus show without Sony's permission.
With the exception of the metal megaphone, Klaw's body/costume is made of "solid sound" so in essence he looks the way he does because that's the color of sound.
I guess