The Materia System will be faithful to the original, says FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE director Tetsuya Nomura

[Ayirek]

I'm not worried about progression carry over from within the same console gen. Because .hack did it just fine with 4 games once and three games another time. What I'm wondering is, there's no way parts 2 on up aren't on PS5, so how would people get their PS4 save data to transfer over to part 2 on PS5? I know they'll probably detail this when the next part enters the marketing phase but I have no idea how they do it.

 

[Hate]

Just look at .Hack games for level progression.

It's not that hard.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

After Years was seen as a sequel of sorts. Very different from FFVIIr which will have episodes based on a complete story.

Also way different scope. The FFVIIr project is way more visible than some budget priced pseudo-sequel.

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If you still don't understand, after all SE has said, that they are treating the parts of the FFVII:R project as full games, i.e. sequels to each other, with FFVII:R being not a "game" but a full-blown "series", then I don't know what to say.

You can agree or disagree with SE's vision for this remake, that's a different issue, but Kitase and Nomura have been very clear on what they are doing.

 

[entremet]

If you still don't understand, after all SE has said, that they are treating the parts of the FFVII:R project as full games, i.e. sequels to each other, with FFVII:R being not a "game" but a full-blown "series", then I don't know what to say.

You can agree or disagree with SE's vision for this remake, that's a different issue, but Kitase and Nomura have been very clear on what they are doing.

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I understand that.

My issue is how does that somehow discount progression from game to game?

You can have both. The games are linked by a common narrative that has a definite conclusion.

 

[snausages]

My issue is how does that somehow discount progression from game to game?

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The issue I think is that it feels like they will have to gate the player's power level in each game for this to work.

It could also create a balance issue where if you have a party which is capable of defeating the ultimate secret boss in part 1, do they just destroy everything for most of part 2 due to being overlevelled?

Do underlevelled characters just get boosted up to the previous game's max level?


If each game was treated as largely independent of its sequels then this issue is more easily avoided

 

[entremet]

The issue I think is that it feels like they will have to gate the player's power level in each game for this to work.

It could also create a balance issue where if you have a party which is capable of defeating the ultimate secret boss in part 1, do they just destroy everything for most of part 2 due to being overlevelled?

Do underlevelled characters just get boosted up to the previous game's max level?


If each game was treated as largely independent of its sequels then this issue is more easily avoided

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This is not a hard problem to solve. That's what I'm saying. MMOs solved this problem already.

You can still have balance with progression.

 

[Adam Sadler]

Why? Editions of FFIV and TAY do exist on the same consoles. There is even an FFIV: The Complete Collection on the PSP with an additional "FFIV Interlude" game set between the other two. Yet no data transfer.

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You wild honestly. You really cant tell the difference between FF7 remake and FF4 and after years?

FF7 is made with in mind that there will be multiple parts. You may not carry over levels but I'm certain there will be something for those who have a completed save for.

When after Years came out it was episodic and the FF4 remake was on another entire console. They aren't gonna go the extra mile and do imported saves when it originally wasn't like that. It will throw the balance off and require more work

 

[Jolkien]

Too bad the material system was incredibly weak. I hate when characters are only a skin a limit break and they can be all the same

 

[UltraGunner]

Since this is only Midgar we sadly can't use w-item duping to farm the magic pots to get the Master Materia

 

[The Adder]

Personally I'm thinking you will have (and need) less materia slots than in the original, if only because the late-game weapons would look ridiculous with the visible slots on them.

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They work fine in most late game weapons. For example, Heaven's Cloud has the most slots of all of Cloud's weapons at 6

Already has 4 slots built right into the image. You'd just need to add two more either on the blade or, even better, under the guard. one on each side.

RedXIII's might be a bit difficult, though.

 

[jdstorm]

Yeah I hope they don't do save transfer. I'm going to max out the characters in part 1, I hope they don't put an annoying power cap on us or make the following games too easy because of carry over.

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Seems like doing something similar to what Mass Effect did is the most elegant solution. Importing a save file gives you a 5 level boost (out of 60) at the start of the game. Set weapons mean there is no loot ect

 

[Raspyberry]

Well at least that is one thing we don't need to worry about anymore.

A pity that the game splitting means materia you own can't carry over to the next instalment... or can they?

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Why would you even think that? I'm sure the saves will transfer somehow.

 

[Rubblatus]

Well at least that is one thing we don't need to worry about anymore.

A pity that the game splitting means materia you own can't carry over to the next instalment... or can they?

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I'm calling it now; Yuffie steals and promptly loses the party's materia ten minutes after you leave Kalm.

 

[Lifejumper]

Carrying over equipment sounds like a balancing nightmare.

Didn't Kitase say they were treating PT 1 as a standalone game?

 

[Kaseoki]

Carrying over equipment sounds like a balancing nightmare.

Didn't Kitase say they were treating PT 1 as a standalone game?

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They could still bring some of the items/equipment over a la new game plus style, like with FFXII. Optional bonuses but no real advantages of doing so, over other players who didn't buy/play part 1.

Though I haven't played it, I heard Mass Effect did this pretty well? But at the same time those who didn't play the original game weren't penalised.

 

[Gure]

That's good news but there are still so many unanswered questions.

 

[Eidan]

Today I learned Avril Lavigne is actually older than me.

 

[Inugami]

Personally I'm thinking you will have (and need) less materia slots than in the original, if only because the late-game weapons would look ridiculous with the visible slots on them.

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There are only a few slots before you leave midgar and there is unlikely to be a lot of high level spells or anything either so it's a concern that can be passed down to future generations.

 

[MistaTwo]

Okay, this is one of the things I was worried about especially after they butchered the FF magic system in XV.

Sounds like they at least understand the importance of the system!

 

[hank_tree]

I want to see my weapons and accessories bristling with materia.

 

[Deleted member 8852]

Ok, but the Materia themselves better not be smaller than the original or there will be riots.

 

[APZonerunner]

They could still bring some of the items/equipment over a la new game plus style, like with FFXII. Optional bonuses but no real advantages of doing so, over other players who didn't buy/play part 1.

Though I haven't played it, I heard Mass Effect did this pretty well? But at the same time those who didn't play the original game weren't penalised.

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Mass Effect doesn't really carry over gear, but it has pretty good excuses for that in-universe in that at the end of each game/start of the next there's a major sea change story-wise that precipitates most or all of your gang being broken up/going different ways, including your ship changing etc, taking the gear with it. Also, there's months in-universe between each ME game, so there's gaps where more shit went down that you then retroactively find out about in the sequel, so it all makes sense and feels right. FF7 obviously won't have that ability, unless they tweak and change the story in a way to allow such things (like, you could have gear confiscated in Shinra tower, I guess, but then that'd leave you without it for the final stretch of the game, which doesn't work).

The thing is, gear in Mass Effect doesn't matter as much from the RPG perspective anyway. You have armor and weapons that do have significantly different stats, but what Mass Effect did a good job of carrying over was your specs and stats and stuff. So your character class and therefore possible ability pool do carry over. Then all they did from ME1 to ME2 is - depending on your level, you'd get an EXP/level boost in ME2. So you'd be the same class, but iirc if you were level 60 in ME1, you'd get an instant boost to level 20 in ME2. The ME2 skill tree is completely different cos they changed it a lot, but that gives you enough skill points to buy abilities right away that approximate where you left things in ME2. ME3 has a more direct continuation from 2. Because you had this and the story carrying over quite seamlessly, the loss of your gear doesn't feel like a big deal.

This is the real challenge for them, especially if the gear system carries over as-it-was - your progression is tied to your materia, the EXP of each individual item of materia etc. Like, if they bring over your Level 30 Cloud but not your Fire materia that's leveled up to Firaga that'll be a bummer. So that's the tough one.

One would assume story choices will have to carry over, too. Nomura and Kitase have briefly said about the choices and the amount of responses and dialogue in the game because of them, but those surely need to carry forwards? IE of the 30-odd choices you can make that impact the date sequence, like 20 of them are in Midgar... so unless they make the date one canon thing, you have to imagine they're gonna want to read your save and carry story over. That's interesting too, because SEJ has never done choice on that scale before. I know Kitase has played Mass Effect, though, as he name checked it/BioWare in an interview I did for FF13-2 once, citing it as an inspiration for that game's branching stuff.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Today I learned Avril Lavigne is actually older than me.

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Huh?

 

[bit8baracus]

Hopefully they keep enemy skill and the skills you learn will carry on to the next game.

 

[Famassu]

Carrying over equipment sounds like a balancing nightmare.

Didn't Kitase say they were treating PT 1 as a standalone game?

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It's as big/has as much content as a standalone mainline FF, but it's still part of a multigame saga.


I'm not sure what's the issue people think these games will have with character transfers or the lack of, for that matter. They can either do some kind of save transfer that brings everything into Part 2 as is (with maybe some alterations if they change things up in subsequent parts instead of keeping it 100% the same) or they can just make it so that these characters will have about the same skills, (maybe maxed) materia & equipment they would have had at the end of Part 1 and then continue building on that with more powerful magic, new limit breaks/skills, equipment & such. They can just do a level cap on characters & materia so that no one will be having some über spells after the first part.

It's not like they just HAVE to reset everyone to level 1 without some kind of save transfer system and it's not like FFVII is some kind of cRPG where there is a fuckton of customization available when it comes to character classes, their abilities & skills, so people wouldn't be missing out on having their personalized avatars being brought over because these are fairly fixed ones, outside of which materias you give to which characters. Everyone will be roughly at the same point come the end point of Part 1.

 

[Deleted member 11421]

Also, having your characters at Level 7358 in the final Part would be ridiculous.

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We don't know how much leveling will actually affect things yet, and caps are commonplace these days.

They could also handle the import process in a later update post-release.

 

[Famassu]

Because each game is a full game with its own gameplay progression. If I recall correctly I'm pretty sure FFIV: The After Years doesn't let you carry over your saves from FFIV.

Also, having your characters at Level 7358 in the final Part would be ridiculous.

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They can just cap the level at something like 35-40 in this first part. Then 70 for the second part and 99 for the final part (I'm still hoping this is a trilogy and nothing more). Big cRPGs often have a level cap of 20, so it's not like getting to 99 is mandatory for RPGs.

 

[hank_tree]

In this thread, lots of people who haven't played .hack.

 

[Xeontech]

RIP dual summon Knights of the Round

 

[Cheezeman3000]

Here's a list of all Materia in FF7 (for reference):

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I played the demo at E3, and based on that knowledge, materia that wouldn't translate 1:1 would be...

Exit - This materia allows you to escape from battles.
Could it be reworked? Possibly. It could make the enemies stop attacking you and give you a chance to run from them.

Cover - With this equipped, you move in front of other characters to take damage for them. Activates randomly.
Could it be reworked? Not easily. They could make it more like a "sentinel" skill where you attract attention from the enemy so they attack you instead.

Enemy Away/Enemy Lure - These reduce and increase random encounters, respectively.
Could they be reworked? Yes! Could easily change how many enemies end up spawning on the map, or even prevent them from spawning at all.

Long Range - This allows you to hit full damage from the back row, as well as hit flying enemies with melee weapons.
Could it be reworked? Not easily. They could make it so that your sword swings send out energy blades or something, and Tifa's fists throw out energy beams?

Pre-Emptive - Raises the chances of getting a pre-emptive strike in a random battle.
Could it be reworked? Nope. I don't see how they could do anything useful with this, as pre-emptive attacks don't seem to be possible.

Double Cut - Allows you to strike 2x to 4x per attack.
Could it be reworked? Not really. The way the battle system works now, you're constantly attacking anyways.

Slash-All - Changes your normal attack to hit all enemies at once.
Could it be reworked? Yeah, it could be changed into an AOE skill or something similar that allows you to spam group attacks.

W-Item/Magic/Summon - Allows you to do two of these things in one turn.
Could it be reworked? Actually, yes, quite easily. Since moves take ATB charges, you could make it so that each move takes half of an ATB charge, effectively doubling your turns.

Added Cut - Adds a regular attack to whichever materia is paired with it.
Could it be reworked? Not that I can see. You're constantly attacking already, so an "extra" attack when you use an ability wouldn't make a difference.

Sneak Attack - There's a chance the materia connected to this will be used at the beginning of a battle.
Could it be reworked? I can't imagine how. Similar to pre-emptive, since battles initiate differently, the only way they could incorporate this would be to fundamentally change how it works.

As for summons, it remains to be seen how they're being incorporated, but it may be that the summons come in and attack while you are still attacking. The first summon materia you get isn't until after Midgar, so it looks like they're adding all new summons to the Midgar section to fill that gap.

 

[FFObsessed]

Im still learning about the materia system 20 years later : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tvBCjyJZWwY&t=372s

8 counter attacks with 4x cut using mime. 👌

 

[DiipuSurotu]

https://www.gameinformer.com/2019/06/22/square-enixs-rule-for-remakes-they-must-surpass-the-original

As far as Final Fantasy VII Remake goes, Matsuda has left a lot of the decisions up to the team for how they want to bring it to a modern generation of players, and this goes as far as how it's being released in installments. "Of course, the development team would have had a variety of discussions about how they should go about taking such a famous game as a Final Fantasy VII and remaking that for modern day. I believe that this style of releasing it like this is something that was born of those discussions. But it is true that each of the individual games will be released as independent games. That's how the development team is making them. And so for that reason, I'd like for you to think of them as something you can play as standalone and itself contains a game and I think that they will be worth playing in that way."

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[entremet]

https://www.gameinformer.com/2019/06/22/square-enixs-rule-for-remakes-they-must-surpass-the-original

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I don't think this discounts any type of progression system, though. Including just stuff like Materia. I think you're reading way too much into that statement.

Moreover, it makes more sense to incentivize stuff like this.