The massive body count in Red Dead 2 feels like it hurts immersion a decent bit while adding nothing.

[Spartancarver]

Except 90% of those problems are eradicated after changing the default values in control settings.

I know you're gonna deny it but it's the truth. The aiming feels just as good as any other console TPS once you fix those settings, and the movement is much better once you get rid of "tap X to sprint"

Click to shrink...

This post is so objectively false that I am questioning if you've actually ever played a game that wasn't RDR2.

The aiming and movement feel like absolute shit no matter what combination of settings you use.

Like have you played any non-Rockstar third person game in the last decade?

Also, none of this has anything to do with the OP correctly pointing out that, for a game that goes out of its way to beat you over the head with forced "immersion", the overly simplistic mission design and hordes of brain dead gallery shooter enemies are a jarring and stark contradiction.

This is a game that literally presents the player with a fail state and forced checkpoint reload for attempting to flank enemies.

 

[Crash331]

So any game that attempts to be somewhat realistic or has realistic aspects is completely exempt from the suspension of disbelief that all video games are criticized upon?

Or is that just RDR2?

Also your statement here doesn't make sense, because the pacing of RDR2 is slow and closer to realism than the majority of other games.

Click to shrink...

When people defend an animation that takes 4 seconds to open a drawer with "realism", then yeah, I expect the combat to match the same realism.

Just go listen to Brad Shoemaker on the Giant Bomb GOTY podcast (I think it was day 4 or 5). It's that attitude that makes no sense to me. People want to claim realism where it helps but ignore it where it hurts. I am just saying that it is incongruous. In my opinion, it makes it a worse game. Maybe you don't mind, but it felt bad for me.

 

[Azzanadra]

What about Nathan Drake and the hundreds of other "decent guy" protagonists in games that murder hundreds of people throughout the course of the game.

Click to shrink...

Did I even mention Uncharted? Why'd you randomly bring it up? I suppose because ND made both, right? That's irrelevant to my point, but I'l indulge this counter anyways.

Uncharted is a light hearted adventure game, this isn't as big of an issue in Uncharted for the same reason it's not a big issue in GTA.

But Rockstar wants RDR2 to be a supper immersive, realistic and gritty game- they want it to feel real and imitate the gravitas of reality, its only fair that we judge RDR2''s narrative and themes by that standard that Rockstar themselves seem to think the game is held up to.

 

[Deleted member 49132]

This post is so objectively false that I am questioning if you've actually ever played a game that wasn't RDR2.

The aiming and movement feel like absolute shit no matter what combination of settings you use.

Like have you played any non-Rockstar third person game in the last decade?

Click to shrink...

Yes I have.

You claiming my post false only leads me to believe that you haven't played RDR2 with fixed settings because it indeed plays just fine once certain settings are fixed, and is definitely on-par with any other open world TPS in terms of aiming.

The movement still feels slow and weighty but it's night-and-day better once you aren't tapping X to sprint anymore.

 

[Crash331]

What about Nathan Drake and the hundreds of other "decent guy" protagonists in games that murder hundreds of people throughout the course of the game.

Arthur is an outlaw, and a murderer.

His arc and writing still supports him murdering all those people in RDR2, probably better than most video game protagonists.

Click to shrink...

IMO Nathan Drake is a problem, too. And I'm pretty sure it's been discussed. Uncharted 1 was one of the first games where I heard the term ludo-narrative dissonance discussed.

The difference is Uncharted doesn't have extremely slow and frustrating pacing in the name of realism.

 

[Spartancarver]

Yes I have.

You claiming my post false only leads me to believe that you haven't played RDR2 with fixed settings because it indeed plays just fine once certain settings are fixed, and is definitely on-par with any other open world TPS in terms of aiming.

The movement still feels slow and weighty but it's night-and-day better once you aren't tapping X to sprint anymore.

Click to shrink...

The first thing I did was look up the recommended settings online to change them.

I even used my Elite controller to further reduce the deadzones. I also made sprint the L thumb stick click.

Still felt like shit for the entire duration of my 90+ hour playthrough. I was fighting the controls the entire time.

It is nowhere near on par with any other non-R* TPS game

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Well, it ads a lot actually.

Lots of fun shooting stuff.



If you want less combat play Uncharted 4?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well for one Joel definitely did not kill 1000 people... I'm not sure if he killed even 200.

And second of all, ND makes it clear Joel is a bad person and makes no excuses for him. In RDR2, Rockstar wants us to think Arthur is a decent person underneath it all.

Click to shrink...

That's not actually true. Neil has said that in TLoU characters aren't black and white. It's not good vs. evil. You've just got people in dire situations doing what they think is necessary to survive. He's even pointed out in Part II that the Seraphites (the group we saw in the PGW and E3 trailers) are fleshed out enough that they aren't just some group of evil religious fanatics.

 

[Spartancarver]

Why do people keep bringing up Uncharted?

Uncharted and TLOU are examples of games that actually manage to have impressive and realistic animation AND responsive controls. Which is an area that RDR2 fails *spectacularly*.

 

[Deleted member 49132]

The first thing I did was look up the recommended settings online to change them.

I even used my Elite controller to further reduce the deadzones. I also made sprint the L thumb stick click.

Still felt like shit for the entire duration of my 90+ hour playthrough. I was fighting the controls the entire time.

It is nowhere near on par with any other non-R* TPS game

Click to shrink...

Why did you spend 90+ hours playing a game that you were fighting to even control and felt like shit to play?

Anyways, agree to disagree.

I've played dozens and dozens of TPS in my day and RDR2 is definitely not as bad as people say it is, nor as bad as you're saying it is. (Once the settings are adjusted)

If it was, I highly doubt you would've played it for as long as you claimed to.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Well, it ads a lot actually.

Lots of fun shooting stuff.



If you want less combat play Uncharted 4?

Click to shrink...

I feel like the level design and AI in Red Dead 2 are really bad in the setpieces and the shooting isn't fun because of the terrible level design. So personally I think they don't add anything to the game.

 

[ElephantShell]

I really disliked the parts in RDR2 where you just post up behind cover and kill like 50 dudes who just keep running in from god knows where. Worst part of the game and it happened way too often.

 

[Super Havoc]

This is the type of shit that loses me when people complain about games or in particular, RDR2. Suddenly shooting a lot of folks in a Rockstar game takes away from the immersion now smh

At least it isn't as bad as the RDR2 doesn't respect my time!" complaint.

 

[Spartancarver]

Why did you spend 90+ hours playing a game that you were fighting to even control and felt like shit to play?

Click to shrink...

Because I genuinely enjoyed the story and characters and setting?

You already tried to claim one guy in this thread was lying about playing the game and got proven wrong, do I also need to post my Xbox achievements profile page to prove I beat the game?

Is this your go-to defense for any criticism of this game? Lol

 

[Deleted member 8791]

From watching RDR2 trailers and hearing about the lengths it goes for realism I just assumed the shootouts were reasonable vs pretty even numbers but with higher HP enemies or such. If anything I'm surprised it took months for this thread to be made if it's actually regular shootouts vs several dozens of people.

 

[Deleted member 49132]

Because I genuinely enjoyed the story and characters and setting?

You already tried to claim one guy in this thread was lying about playing the game and got proven wrong, do I also need to post my Xbox achievements profile page to prove I beat the game?

Is this your go-to defense for any criticism of this game? Lol

Click to shrink...

I claimed he sounded like someone who hasn't played much of the game because he stated that the mission variety was nothing but "go to X, shoot X, and meet back at camp, rinse and repeat"

That is objectively false... and in my opinion RDR2 has some of the best mission variety you'll find in an open world game this gen.

Once he posted his PSN profile and proved he completed the epilogue I was even more confused by his claim.

I simply do not see how someone could complete the story of RDR2 and be able to claim such about the variety in its missions.

The controls argument I fully understand but again, once certain setttings are fixed and adjusted it's a night and day difference.

 

[RespectThySole]

Well, it ads a lot actually.

Lots of fun shooting stuff.



If you want less combat play Uncharted 4?

Click to shrink...

Uncharted 4 has pacing issues but at least it's combat was actually engaging. RDR2 wishes it played that well. RDR2 failed on the basic acts of aiming your gun and moving your character

 

[Crash331]

edit: not worth it

 

[MistaTwo]

IMO they really should have spent more time on the actual combat mechanics.
I would have rather had smarter AI, better shooting with more skill required, and much more limited but still tense shootouts with competent gunman.
Instead of the lock-on circus you get with almost every damn mission in the game.

That type of gameplay hinges on the player having a much, much lower health pool to be as fun, tense and challenging though. Also the AI for enemies can be much more advanced in a linear game like TLOU where each area has design decisions influencing it.

Click to shrink...

This would obviously be a problem for open world encounters, but I was under the impression that this thread was about the story missions in RDR2 which are already designed differently anyway.
Which, let's be honest, are some of the strictest most linear designed missions in the genre. You can fail a mission for running the wrong way at times.[/QUOTE]

 

[Freezasaurus]

I was more annoyed by the fact that the game made me kill dozens and dozens of people and then didn't give me time to loot every last corpse.

 

[Ryuhza]

That O'Driscoll gang sure is massive.

 

[nded]

I want Rockstar's next game to be able to tell when you're not taking its narrative seriously so it starts becoming increasingly bizarre and over the top.

 

[Dussck]

I'm just halfway Chapter 3 and it feels like I killed half the population of the USA already. It's way too much indeed. It also feels like I've played the same mission 5 times or so by now. You know, that one where you escape on your horse and suddenly other cowboys on horses chase you and shoot you.

 

[Asriel]

This is such a ridiculous take. Does anyone here ever watch classic Westerns? lol. Prepare to be disappointed, then.

 

[el_skywalker]

One Million per cento, yes.

 

[Deleted member 1656]

This is such a ridiculous take. Does anyone here ever watch classic Westerns? lol. Prepare to be disappointed, then.

Click to shrink...

Have you watched Westerns? There's some bad motherfuckers in Westerns but there often isn't one person who slaughters other people by the hundreds to thousands alone. Not that that's totally inconceivable, but it's usually some anime shit. Gattsu, The Hundred Man Slayer The Man With No Name is not. Gattsu, The One Hundred Man Slayer Arthur Morgan is.

 

[Asriel]

Have you watched Westerns? There's some bad motherfuckers in Westerns but there often isn't one person who's slaughters other people by the hundreds to thousands alone. Not that that's totally inconceivable, but it's usually some anime shit. Gattsu, The Hundred Man Slayer The Man With No Name is Not. Gattsu, The One Hundred Man Slayer Arthur Morgan is.

Click to shrink...

Um, yes I have. There is a fundamental difference between video games and movies in terms of form in that video games are repetitive by nature. But Westerns are about the shootouts. RDRII is a Western game. Not complicated. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to suspend belief all of a sudden, but this game is arising some interesting reactions on this forum.

It's a ridiculous argument period and is a lens that can be applied to many open world games, but of course never actually is. Nonsense.

 

[TheManWhoSoldVG]

Well the game is a triple AAA action/adventure game which is based on western films which have loads of shootouts.

 

[thefro]

RDR does suffer from trying to be more serious than GTA (even though there's some parody elements still there), so the dissonance between the gameplay and narrative is worse.

And then you have the fact that thousands of enemies being in the world doesn't make sense unless the army's coming after you. Outside of Saint Dennis logically there's just not that many people around. Might be a few hundred people in each of the other towns.

This is such a ridiculous take. Does anyone here ever watch classic Westerns? lol. Prepare to be disappointed, then.

Click to shrink...

The spaghetti westerns that were the heaviest influences on Rockstar have body counts into the hundreds overall, but it's easier to set that up over 2-3 hours and make sense in the world versus a 50 hour game. Also Eastwood in the Dollars Trilogy maybe only kills 50 people overall since there's the bad guys killing people, battles between gangs/armies, etc.

 

[Deleted member 1656]

video games are repetitive by nature

Click to shrink...

Shitty ones, maybe. I like games that mitigate, obfuscate, and construct on the elements they repeat.

It's a ridiculous argument period and is a lense that can be applied to many open world games. Nonsense.

Click to shrink...

Yep, most open world games are shallow, ridiculously violent power fantasies, I agree.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I agree with the OP. Immersion breaking but more importantly, unnecessarily violent. I know Wild West was horrifically violent by today's standards, but shooting dead 30-40 people in a mission seems stupid.

Gun battles should have been more intense and rarer occurances with fewer enemies.

 

[Asriel]

Shitty ones, maybe. I like games that mitigate, obfuscate, and construct on the elements they repeat.Yep, most open world games are shallow, ridiculously violent power fantasies, I agree.

Click to shrink...

Please, do miscontrue my post. And this literally makes no sense.

 

[Dervius]

I normally wave the "it's a video game" banner on these conversations but this is one of the first times the sheer volume of combat felt like it hurt the game.

It's a victim of its own success in that sense. The psuedo-simulation feel it gives makes the hordes of enemies feel particularly out of place. I actually enjoy the shooting (with increased sensitivity in free-aim), but there are just so many at times.

The most exciting shootouts I've had have been the lowkey ambushes and such where I feel some actual risk, and it's maybe 5 or 6 guys.

A "sim" mode with modified missions with fewer enemies, less survivability (both yours and enemy's) and less ammo would be real interesting IMO. Like Metro's Ranger mode.

 

[Deleted member 1656]

Please, do miscontrue my post. And this literally makes no sense.

Click to shrink...

In other words, it means I like games that twist and build on their core loops as they go.

 

[Conal]

RDR2 is one of my favourite games of all time but this thread is on point I feel.

I just realised that I didn't have one quick draw duel the entire game. They should have done more with one on one fights/ small scale skirmishes IMO.

More missions about looting rich houses in the dead of night and fleeing from the cops.

More missions where travelling IS the mission not just how you get there. Races against time etc.

Basically I want all the things I loved about the game actually represented in its missions.

A few larger scale shootouts would be enough for me.

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

You just gotta have a little faith. You'll understand later.
Dutch has a plan, ok?

 

[Conal]

Um, yes I have. There is a fundamental difference between video games and movies in terms of form in that video games are repetitive by nature. But Westerns are about the shootouts. RDRII is a Western game. Not complicated. I'm not sure why it's so difficult to suspend belief all of a sudden, but this game is arising some interesting reactions on this forum.

It's a ridiculous argument period and is a lens that can be applied to many open world games, but of course never actually is. Nonsense.

Click to shrink...

The game has much more in common thematically with spaghetti westerns or even the more modern 'anti' western than classic westerns imo (although it definitely plays homage there too, especially during the incredible post mission camp scenes).

 

[Budi]

Haven't played the second game, but I had the same problem with the first game already. So I feel you. And it just got simply boring too, gameplay-wise. Yet I loved the game overall.

 

[Thrill_house]

It's a videogame. Yes, it doesn't make sense but it doesn't have to.

Click to shrink...

This is my take. Same view I had towards the "My Arthur has too much money why don't we just go to tahiti noooowwww" thread.

 

[Doukou]

What about Nathan Drake and the hundreds of other "decent guy" protagonists in games that murder hundreds of people throughout the course of the game.

Arthur is an outlaw, and a murderer.

His arc and writing still supports him murdering all those people in RDR2, probably better than most video game protagonists.

Click to shrink...

People complain/joke about Nathan Drake all the time.

 

[ActWan]

I kinda agree, it was most prevalent to me in the Rhodes town shootout and that's one of the reasons it's the least favorite chapter in the game for me.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Considering it's got the best gunfights I've ever encountered in a game, I'm more than happy to have plenty to shoot at.

Click to shrink...

 

[mxbison]

Yes, missions pretty much felt like Virtua Cop style shooting galleries

 

[impact]

From watching RDR2 trailers and hearing about the lengths it goes for realism I just assumed the shootouts were reasonable vs pretty even numbers but with higher HP enemies or such. If anything I'm surprised it took months for this thread to be made if it's actually regular shootouts vs several dozens of people.

Click to shrink...

That's not quite accurate, but this is a RDR2 thread on Era so... yea let's shit on a game we've only watched trailers of!

 

[Linus815]

Sure, but this isn't really an RDR problem, it's a videogame problem. RDR emphasizes immersion, which may pronounce this trope more than usual, but I think RDR 2 also toned it down actually, at least relatively, in comparison to other games. RDR 1, which I replayed right after, was way more excessive in this regard. Uncharted 4 (just finished replaying it), tried to be more grounded than the first 3 games, and did actually put quite a lot of effort in making encounters less insane in its first quarter, but eventually went balls to wall with it. Nate and Elena having a romantic moment between 2 massive shootouts and almost dying to exploding traps was quite bizarre to say the least.

Not that I'm bothered by this, it's just... videogames. I think RDR 2 could've benefited from making the firefights smaller scale but more difficutl, but the controls already get a lot of complaints so I'm not sure how that would've worked.

 

[Deleted member 8791]

That's not quite accurate, but this is a RDR2 thread on Era so... yea let's shit on a game we've only watched trailers of!

Click to shrink...

I was not trying to bring anything new to the table, just summarizing the feel I got from reading this thread. You are feel to correct instead of... Whatever you did.

 

[Fredrik]

Arthur is a great protagonist, among the very best, but yeah, it's a western game, you're a bunch of criminals, and it's a Rockstar game and it's rated 18. I think you should've expected some killing. :P

What about UC4 when we got to see Nathan's mr.nice guy side while he was mr. serial killer ahile later, including his wife? If we ever see their daughter in a future game I bet she'll be a serial killer too. And Lara Croft? She's another notorious serial killer, she started out fighting for survival but not so much now.

I'd say it's pretty much the norm in AAA games unless it's kids games.

However, I totally wish I could play a peaceful version of RDR2 with my kids because the riding and taking care of the horse, fishing, games, etc would be jolly good family fun.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Click to shrink...

I feel the same way about people who claim the game controls poorly.

Clearly people don't want any weight or physics in their games, at least to the extent it has been implemented in RDR2, and the good news is that most games don't so they are welcome to play something else.

I hope Rockstar continues to do things their way.

I love the feel of their games.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I feel the same way about people who claim the game controls poorly.

Clearly people don't want any weight or physics in their games, at least to the extent it has been implemented in RDR2, and the good news is that most games don't so they are welcome to play something else.

I hope Rockstar continues to do things their way.

I love the feel of their games.

Click to shrink...

This weight or physics argument is a meme at this point. That's not how any of this works, but it got explained to death at this point and if you managed to ignore all of those explanations I won't bother.

Saying RDR2 has the best shooting mechanics in a game ever is ridiculous.

 

[Zero-ELEC]

It's funny, when people defend the bad pacing, controls and mission design and annoying mechanics because of its skeuomorphic properties but if people have complaints about ludonarrative dissonance, it's suddenly just a video game.