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The Mandalorian - Season 2 |OT| Wherever I go, he goes [SPOILERS ON EPISODE DROP]
- Thread starter WadiumArcadium
- Start date
- OT
I'm glad they are finally using stuff from the animated series. first of all, everyone should watch the clone wars at the very least, that show did more world building than any of the movies.
In the movies the Star Wars universe feels super small and compacted because everything connects somehow. The Clone Wars took stuff from the expanded universe and integrated it into the lore, it makes the universe of the franchise feels as it should fucking huge.
In the movies the Star Wars universe feels super small and compacted because everything connects somehow. The Clone Wars took stuff from the expanded universe and integrated it into the lore, it makes the universe of the franchise feels as it should fucking huge.
Someone made a handy guide of just the Mandalorian stuff. But the thing is the Mandalorian plot was very heavily intertwined with some other plotlines.
^
WadiumArcadium can we get a threadmark for this post?
The big reveal in this episode was that Mando is a religious zealot compared to what Mandalorians were actually like.
Damn good to know there's more of Pedro in the actual suit this time around.
I mean, this and last week's episode were literally just one episode chopped into two.
I'm not even a huge SW fan, but I admit I kinda geeked out when I saw Bo Katan, and played by Katee on top it (shame the CC ruined the surprise though).
Our good friend who is the adopted granma for our kids is visiting and loves The Mandalorian (probably thanks to Baby Yoda), but she was very intrigued by the character of Bo Katan and the situation on Mandalore, so we ended up watching 4 episodes of SW Rebels afterwards:
S3e15 "Trials of the Dark Saber"
S3e16 " Legacy of Mandalore"
S4e1 & 2 " Heroes of Mandalore"
Real nice tie in.
Our good friend who is the adopted granma for our kids is visiting and loves The Mandalorian (probably thanks to Baby Yoda), but she was very intrigued by the character of Bo Katan and the situation on Mandalore, so we ended up watching 4 episodes of SW Rebels afterwards:
S3e15 "Trials of the Dark Saber"
S3e16 " Legacy of Mandalore"
S4e1 & 2 " Heroes of Mandalore"
Real nice tie in.
OP
OP
It looks like a few people have already responded to this, but there's a brief summary in the OP as well.
Done.
The problem is that the weird Mando cult in question was in the majority of the Mando focused TCW episodes.
As discussed in this thread, the reasoning that the show has landed upon for Mando's creed is that he's a child of the Death Watch, a religiously zealous band of outcasts wanting to return to a warrior past, which is how they were also described in TCW. But the Death Watch portrayed in TCW break this creed, particularly the part about helmets, all the time.
Basically it's a retcon because Favreau wanted to make a Mandalorian show that revolved around what fans would often cite about why they liked Boba Fett in the OT so much (Namely, the mystery about the guy beneath the helmet.) but nobody had a reason for why Mando had his creed, so they've handwaved it away.
I don't remember it being mentioned in the episode, but the fact that both Mon Cal and Quarren are in this episode means that if it's not Mon Cal
Well for one thing, I don't think wrestlers get famous nowadays like Hulk Hogan or the Rock as far as the general public is concerned. Also, looking at her IMDB, this is her first major acting gig period. Hopefully she'll get more lines if that character returns in the show.
Makeup isn't just about crafting cool looking aliens, after all.
25 years have passed since the Clone Wars and Mandalore got purged. Things change.
And Din Djarin said last season that he had followed the creed and hadn't taken off the helmet since he was rescued during the Clone War from the SBDs.
It's a retcon, plain and simple.
Gonna check these out. Will it make sense if I've never watched Rebels before?
We're assuming that Death Watch is the only "Watch" being mentioned. Our Mando's rescuers and the creed he follows appears to be wildly different from the DW in Clone Wars/ Rebels. He's been much more sheltered and the line of Mandalore being cursed would be at odds with the DW from Rebels.
Djin's covert seems much more fundamental and much closer to following the OG creed of Mandalore the Great, like how it was during KOTOR. Picking up foundlings and not relying on dynasties or lineage of Mandalorians is at odds of we saw of Death Watch and Mandalore in the CW/Rebels area.
The sect Din is a part of is called The Children of the Watch. Not Death Watch. Maybe it's an offshoot of Death Watch. Maybe it's related. But they are not the same thing.
I think The Children of the Watch aren't the same thing as Death Watch, his rescuers had the Death Watch insignia on their armor but that could mean that the CotW were Death Watch members who thought Pre Vizsla didn't go far enough with the religion. We know that they believe in hiding out of safety and that they don't care about Mandalore, so they could have just never gotten involved with Darth Maul or Bo-Katan taking back Mandalore. It would've been a nice tie-in to Clone Wars if we saw this schism happen in the show, but I don't think it's a retcon.
My theory is that it's either an offshoot of Death Watch or that Death Watch and The Children of the Watch are both named after something in the history of Mandalore, something like an ancient Mandalorian Royal Guard.
not necessarily a retcon because death watch could've become even more conservative/traditionalist due to plenty of other post-cw events such as the night of one thousand tears or the great purge.
we'll have to hope that the show delves more into din's upbringing to find out more but right now this doesn't seem to be a retcon.
The Mandos that saved Din were Death Watch. They had the Death Watch insignia and their merchandise is sold as Death Watch trooper.
The French subtitles call Din a child of the Death Watch. Taken from page 43:
It isn't a separate sect, it's a retcon.
Din said he hadn't taken his helmet off since he was rescued from the Super Battle Droids, and that it was the only way he's known last season. It very much is a retcon.
I'm not sure why Occam's razor isn't in play here guys.
The Mandos that saved Din were Death Watch. They had the Death Watch insignia and their merchandise is sold as Death Watch trooper.
The French subtitles call Din a child of the Death Watch. Taken from page 43:
It isn't a separate sect, it's a retcon.
You're trusting French subtitles over what literally came out of Katee Sackoff's mouth? She says "The Children of the Watch broke away from Mandalorian society..." What is hard to understand about that? Sure, he was saved by Death Watch, but he somehow ended up with the Children of the Watch. There is plenty more to his backstory we don't understand yet.
The Mandos that saved Din were Death Watch. They had the Death Watch insignia and their merchandise is sold as Death Watch trooper.
The French subtitles call Din a child of the Death Watch. Taken from page 43:
It isn't a separate sect, it's a retcon.
Din said he hadn't taken his helmet off since he was rescued from the Super Battle Droids, and that it was the only way he's known last season. It very much is a retcon.
I'm not sure why Occam's razor isn't in play here guys.
we know that he was rescued during the end of the clone wars but we still don't know exactly what happened to death watch after the war ended.
i dont think it'd be a stretch for them to become more conservative and isolationist after the CW.
Uhh bro I'd trust whatever comes out of her actual mouth in the original version than a possibly erroneous sub.The Mandos that saved Din were Death Watch. They had the Death Watch insignia and their merchandise is sold as Death Watch trooper.
The French subtitles call Din a child of the Death Watch. Taken from page 43:
It isn't a separate sect, it's a retcon.
Din said he hadn't taken his helmet off since he was rescued from the Super Battle Droids, and that it was the only way he's known last season. It very much is a retcon.
I'm not sure why Occam's razor isn't in play here guys.
I honestly don't get the debate. It's been established that Mandalore consists out of thousands of different tribes and cultures. Din is from on overly zealous one which was an off-shoot of Death Watch (hence CHILDREN of Death Watch).
That's exactly what Death Watch did in TCW. They lived away from Mandalore, plotting a hostile takeover of Mandalorian society because of a zealous belief in returning to a warrior past, rather than go along with the pacifist path society was following.
If the creed had changed, he would have remembered it. The show stated that he had never taken his helmet off since he was rescued as a child, and presumably no adults around him took theirs off, because it was the way.
obw more like force sudoku than killedGoing by that line of thought. Darth Vader killed Obi-wan. And then fucking Palpatine killed Darth Vader. In conclusion. Palpatine is the rightful ruler of Mandalore.
vader "killed" palp in a delayed double ko. If anything luke killed him by removing the mask and leaving him in DS2
luke also force sudoku(?)
then rey killed(?) palp
Din was rescued by the Death Watch, and hadn't taken his helmet off since being rescued because of his creed.
We know they're Death Watch not just by the insignia, they are licensed out as Death Watch troopers. The subtitle, although maybe erroneous, happens to corroborate that.
What Bo says about the Watch in the episode describes exactly what the Death Watch were in TCW, militant traditionalists that broke away from Mandalorian society because of a religiously zealous aversion to pacifism.
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We shouldn't associate media franchises with people. Because 1. it's not lucas any more and he has no say over SW and 2. even when it was Lucas, he wrote around fan appeasement just as much as Disney.
But as far as destroying the franchise, lol. You have nothing to worry about. Earlier, I compared SW to a black hole. Another way it's like one is that it's reached an event horizon of popularity that it will essentially never go away the same way Sherlock or Greek Mythology won't. If WB couldn't kill their franchise with the double whammy of Batman v Superman and Justice League, then SW is just as immortal.
And besides that, fan appeasement is an ineffective way to kill a franchise in a capitalism economy. We can rag on Rise of Skywalker all we want, but it made it's money back and then some, without even including the merch it sold. They appease for more sales, not less. In a capitalist economy, that's a success regardless of how the product is as a piece of art.
Honestly, the most sensible explanation that reconciles everything is that it's either a retcon to the Deathwatch - that the Children of the Watch just refers to foundlings taken in by them, and not the group as a whole, and that the stuff with the helmets and the ritual is just supposed to give them some new flavor. But it wouldn't be hard to say that they're a subgroup within the Deathwatch who just didn't come up until now, which is why the soldiers who saved Din had Deathwatch insignia. They were Deathwatch in the broad sense, but were specifically Children of the Watch, who have slightly different rules. After the rise of the Empire they split from the larger group and became even more insular, thus Din not knowing about all this stuff.
Pick your flavor, really. Personally I don't mind retcons all that much so I'm good with either.
Pick your flavor, really. Personally I don't mind retcons all that much so I'm good with either.
I don't know how any of this refutes the theory that they're just an off-shoot of the OG Death Watch.
I honestly really don't care either way. That's how I imagined it to be and if it isn't, eh so what.
I'm more interested in why he doesn't know anything about the Jedi if he grew up during the clone wars. That's the bigger plot hole imo.
This makes it sound like it was written and produced in the past week.
Almost impossible, since there's no way they could've known, when they filmed it, that the egg thing would be controversial and go over as badly as it did.
I just happen to find it amusing that I got several replies insisting that it wasn't a retcon, solely because Bo didn't specifically name drop them as Death Watch. She refers to Din as a child of the Watch, obviously because he's literally a child of the Death Watch, as the French captions and merchandising would suggest, but already the excuse is in place that she was talking about a completely different Watch, with Child of the Watch being the name of a separate clan of religiously zealous traditionalists.
I will agree that Din not knowing about the Jedi is a bigger plot hole though.
Wat, I thought it was a good and sensible interpretation of the animated character's weird hair.
If they hadn't done that then there wouldn't be a good reason to not have the Razor Crest all fixed up this episode since the Mon Calamari would have to be able to make it good as new on their homeworld
It should make sense, little is referenced outside these episodes aside a short snipet on the circumstances around finding the Dark Saber, and Bo Katan reminiscing about her sister (Satine Kryze) who used to be the legitimate ruler of Mandalore.
Only thing to keep in mind if you have never seen Rebels (and all that is naturally made clear) is that we are BBY-2 (2 years before the first death star destruction), that the rebellion is still in early stages and looking for allies, and that the core group (featured here) of the show is
Kanan- a near Jedi Master who escaped the purge narrowly thanks to his master's sacrifice
Ezra- a young force sensitive orphan, apprentice of Kanan
Hera- an ace pilot who is the leader of this resistance cell and is close to Kanan
Sabine Wren- a scruffy Mandalorian weapons specialist, ex cadet from Imperial forces
Chopper- their droid
Zeb (unseen in these eps)
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I mean yeah I honestly did read it as "The Children of the Watch" instead of a literal child of the Death Watch too, which I thought descended it from the OG Death Watch (hence "Children of...").
But if it is a retcon so be it. I guess both arguments make sense, especially the merch (though one couuuld argue that's still not word of god). But Star Wars is the last thing when it comes to consistency so I truly don't care.
I mean, no, it's not a retcon lol. I've even been saying this since S1, that Mando was clearly part of deeply zealous and cult-like clan, with his status as a foundling being why we wasn't aware that not all Mandalorians were that way. And now in S2 they tackle that head-on and explicitly state EXACTLY that, and some of you are still screaming retcon, lmao. Between this episode and the Cobb Vanth episode a major element of this season is clearly taking shape in Mando learning the true nature of his people. Let the details actually play out before you keep insisting to the high heavens "RETCON, RETCON!"
from Twitter
Directed by Carl Weathers
Looks like they haven't shown any footage past chapter 12.
The Mandalorian rejoins old allies for a new mission]
Looks like they haven't shown any footage past chapter 12.