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"The look" - Black men and unconscious bias
- Thread starter skillzilla81
- Start date
Let's all talk about...
"... what I want to talk about instead!"
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While I don't appreciate P&G using black people as marketing props (especially in light of the recent Nike allegations), this is something I've endured regularly. I've always been harassed in non-black spaces but once I got my tattoos folks went into overdrive with the micro (and not so micro) aggression. I became pretty desensitized to it early on so it is what it is.
Dumb real.
I hate that our corporate overlords are getting good at crafting ads and conveying messages like this, but this one hits close to home.
I hate that our corporate overlords are getting good at crafting ads and conveying messages like this, but this one hits close to home.
They were both middle aged and one was a woman and aside from those comments they are perfectly nice and friendly people to deal with which is what makes it so baffling and frustrating.
And exactly right, have seen it many times how lacking people can be in self reflection rather than just making an excuse
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissing concerns regarding racism
Guess I'm lucky I'm in my city this isn't something that happens to me very often. I would have like them to show some of the opposite "look" I get from my own people when I bring my white wife around the old neighborhood. I notice that way more often and fine it extra annoying.
But gotta keep white people as the enemy I suppose.
But gotta keep white people as the enemy I suppose.
I'm not part of any minority myself. But I have 2 wonderful parents who wanted to give some orphans from Haiti and Cambodia a second chance.
It pains me to know that sometimes, we're being looked at differently... for no good reasons.
I don't suffer directly but I love my brothers/sisters and don't want them to go through this.
It pains me to know that sometimes, we're being looked at differently... for no good reasons.
I don't suffer directly but I love my brothers/sisters and don't want them to go through this.
Don't minimize other people's (VERY real and very valid) experiences, establish a straw man argument, and gaslight folks solely because you think it doesn't happen to you.
Lol as a black lawyer that video is too real.
Two weekends back I went to a police station as a government appointed attorney to provide legal assistance to an attested suspect.
As I get to the door of the police station I hear the lock turn and the cop stare me down on the other side. I try the door and he points at the doorbell.
I ring and his voice comes over the speaker '' what do you want. Why are you here '' in the rudest tone you can think of.
I reply. I'm a state appointed attorney and you're keeping me from my client who is to be interrogated within the hour. Could you open the door now please?
He immediately opens up switches his tone to the most kiss ass tone you can imagine and apologises haha.
Two weekends back I went to a police station as a government appointed attorney to provide legal assistance to an attested suspect.
As I get to the door of the police station I hear the lock turn and the cop stare me down on the other side. I try the door and he points at the doorbell.
I ring and his voice comes over the speaker '' what do you want. Why are you here '' in the rudest tone you can think of.
I reply. I'm a state appointed attorney and you're keeping me from my client who is to be interrogated within the hour. Could you open the door now please?
He immediately opens up switches his tone to the most kiss ass tone you can imagine and apologises haha.
Always.
Also, last night I was called a nigger by a customer. It was strange because I knew something was going to happen with it being the 4th of July. Doesn't get more American than that.
If I didn't have my wife and two sons I would have ripped him apart. It didn't hit me until the end of my shift and I just balled crying. I feel powerless and this is all really bringing me to the edge of my sanity.
I live in Buffalo and we're trying so desperately to get out of this country. No where is perfect, I know - but there is a unique hatred for black people in America. It's woven in.
edit: sorry I know that's off topic, but I needed to vent and didn't wanna make a thread
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Gotten this look plenty of times, and sometimes not even from whites but other non-black ethnicities. Thing is - what used to bother me I now relish in. Once I notice how uncomfortable me existing makes someone else I dial it up a notch to really stick it theur craw that I'm in their space and I'm not going anywhere.
Gets me and the missus a good laugh all the time.
Gets me and the missus a good laugh all the time.
Keep your Stacy Dash brand of anti-blackness to yourself.
Personally, I've never noticed "the look". I've literally been told by white people verbatim that I look non-threatening. All the racism that I've experienced has been in the form of underhanded comments about my intellect in academic settings (by teachers and peers) and random off the cuff "you're the only cool black person I know" types of comments.
And if I'm being FOR REAL FOR REAL...a lot of those comments came from non-white Latinos. They hate us too.
And if I'm being FOR REAL FOR REAL...a lot of those comments came from non-white Latinos. They hate us too.
There's always one who has to say it. So fucking embarrassing.
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I've been routinely amazed by how people truly don't immediately understand the context difference in these cases. Sometimes it's genuine, it comes from really not thinking about the different experience. Sometimes it isn't genuine at all and they know exactly what they are doing even if in their mind they're "just joking". Both are problems - the former because it indicates just a general lack of consideration and maybe knowledge.
I've had to try to explain this over and over to family members when they say or do something that given the context is a terrible thing to say to or about a minority. In their mind "but I'd say the same thing to a white person" is a cure-all. And they aren't lying, they would, but that doesn't make it ok. I've been able to get through to some but others are lost causes....
Edit: and to be clear those "lost causes" I refer to I've had to just accept are NOT genuine. They know what they are doing. I do my best to avoid them at this point in general.
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You don't need to apologize, man.
If you don't already, definitely share those thoughts with your wife from time to time. There's a little too much of "gotta shoulder everything and hold it in" with men in general, and black men especially.
But as for right now - I see your post and I know the feeling. You aren't alone.
Being tall and Black definitely makes it worse as you get people not only giving you the look but people "surprised" at how tall you are on top of it. I will say though that in regards to the US, I get the look "less often" in Southern California than I do in other parts of the US.
Was recently serving a white customer at my pharmacy. As he was filling out information he kept looking at this young black man minding his own business behind him in the line, which was made much worse by the fact that the young man was giving him like two arms' length of space. Must've looked like three times.
Wanted to tell him so bad "He's not going to rob you, asshole."
Wanted to tell him so bad "He's not going to rob you, asshole."
Black Brit here. And yup.
I remember being 15 years old and an old lady crossed the street to avoid me. I was skinny as a rake (still am, 25 years later) and at the time barely 5'5".
My experiences in the US have been far worse. As an adult I've had outright racism from people in New York, where The Look turned into outright ' this white dude can't even look AT me and doesn't want to talk to me' (but was all chatty to my Polish wife bare minutes before when she passed), along with other wonderful things.
Funnily enough I'm writing about all these experiences in a future book - The Look and The Nod is pretty much undercurrent of the whole thing because it's been present through my whole life, like so many others.
I remember being 15 years old and an old lady crossed the street to avoid me. I was skinny as a rake (still am, 25 years later) and at the time barely 5'5".
My experiences in the US have been far worse. As an adult I've had outright racism from people in New York, where The Look turned into outright ' this white dude can't even look AT me and doesn't want to talk to me' (but was all chatty to my Polish wife bare minutes before when she passed), along with other wonderful things.
Funnily enough I'm writing about all these experiences in a future book - The Look and The Nod is pretty much undercurrent of the whole thing because it's been present through my whole life, like so many others.
One time I was walking around alone late at night. Cloaked in my natural camouflage so I guess the guy ahead couldn't see me. He slows down as nears a street lamp and by this point I can tell he's a bit tipsy. He gets off his bike to take a piss and reaches for his zipper...he sees me, jumps onto his bicycle, and pedals away as quickly as he could.
hmm.. am i inadvertedly giving people this look, if im just stressed as fuck and look more stern than usual? even when i feel normal and think of my demeanor as neutral i've gotten complaints like "why do you look so angry" lol (only from other whites though). i guess its because i dont really smile..?
i've noticed at work sometimes when i deal with non-white folk they sometimes come off as scared of me, but i dunno. can't get into people's heads so.. i'm certainly not a scary looking big nazi or anything, just a scrawny-ish old geek.
i suspect i do it, because every now and then a person might first look at me with a disappointed/apprehensive face, but after a moment of me talking friendly small talk they drop their guard (sometimes in a dramatic way, like a big "phew, this guy doesnt seem like a racist fuckface after all"). just yesterday i met a young Somali guy (Somalis are REALLY discriminated here) and when i asked his name (i guess with a serious/stern voice) he looked at me with a frightened look on his face, but after just a minute of basic small talk we were best buddies and he was super nice and thanked me profusely for the good treatment (i work in a hospital transporting patients, took him to take an MRI).. i dunno what happened tbh.
what am i supposed to do? i work basically minimum wage, breaking my body just to pay food and rent so i reserve the right to look and feel stressed/angry at times lol. i treat everyone exactly the same though and repeat the same tired lines dozens of times a day, i never change my behavior.
i've noticed at work sometimes when i deal with non-white folk they sometimes come off as scared of me, but i dunno. can't get into people's heads so.. i'm certainly not a scary looking big nazi or anything, just a scrawny-ish old geek.
i suspect i do it, because every now and then a person might first look at me with a disappointed/apprehensive face, but after a moment of me talking friendly small talk they drop their guard (sometimes in a dramatic way, like a big "phew, this guy doesnt seem like a racist fuckface after all"). just yesterday i met a young Somali guy (Somalis are REALLY discriminated here) and when i asked his name (i guess with a serious/stern voice) he looked at me with a frightened look on his face, but after just a minute of basic small talk we were best buddies and he was super nice and thanked me profusely for the good treatment (i work in a hospital transporting patients, took him to take an MRI).. i dunno what happened tbh.
what am i supposed to do? i work basically minimum wage, breaking my body just to pay food and rent so i reserve the right to look and feel stressed/angry at times lol. i treat everyone exactly the same though and repeat the same tired lines dozens of times a day, i never change my behavior.
Very real.
I live in London. Shopkeepers (or their friends) follow me around the shop. White people, usually eastern European white people cross the road when I'm behind them, slow down so I can pass them and so much more.
Something I feel that isn't spoken about enough and I feel a lot of people from other races don't get is just HOW MUCH black people of all ages have to self-police themselves in public. Subconscious or consciously.
Me and a few of my friends were looking for a parking space near a club. we saw this white lady packing her shopping into the boot of her car and my friend pulled up and asked her if we have the space once she's finished.
She said "Yeah that's fine" but we all picked up on "the look" she gave us.....instead of packing all her things in the boot as she was doing to begin she threw everything ok the back seats and drove off. This was at 3pm on a busy main road in East London.
After we parked up we sat in silence for a while and ended up saying the same thing at damn near the same time.
It was about how we all changed our tone, even sat up straight just for one of us asked her a simple question. We ended up getting in late and having to pay more for entry because we sat there for so long just speaking about how often we may change our behaviours ever so slightly so that we don't seem or come across as intimidating... so people don't feel threatened.
It's long.
I live in London. Shopkeepers (or their friends) follow me around the shop. White people, usually eastern European white people cross the road when I'm behind them, slow down so I can pass them and so much more.
Something I feel that isn't spoken about enough and I feel a lot of people from other races don't get is just HOW MUCH black people of all ages have to self-police themselves in public. Subconscious or consciously.
Me and a few of my friends were looking for a parking space near a club. we saw this white lady packing her shopping into the boot of her car and my friend pulled up and asked her if we have the space once she's finished.
She said "Yeah that's fine" but we all picked up on "the look" she gave us.....instead of packing all her things in the boot as she was doing to begin she threw everything ok the back seats and drove off. This was at 3pm on a busy main road in East London.
After we parked up we sat in silence for a while and ended up saying the same thing at damn near the same time.
It was about how we all changed our tone, even sat up straight just for one of us asked her a simple question. We ended up getting in late and having to pay more for entry because we sat there for so long just speaking about how often we may change our behaviours ever so slightly so that we don't seem or come across as intimidating... so people don't feel threatened.
It's long.
not really the same at all. people give you looks because you're out of the ordinary, but it still comes with all the associated privileges including people going out of their way to help you out and seeing you as a financial opportunity and prioritizing you if they run a business.
This message is unequivocally right, but it sucks that it's being spread by P&G. It adds to their image of being "socially conscious", and all the while, they're depending on child labor for palm oil farming, among what I'm sure is a ton of other disgusting crap.
Like, it's great that this message is spread, but it sucks big time that it's in effect in service of whitewashing huge corporations like this.
Like, it's great that this message is spread, but it sucks big time that it's in effect in service of whitewashing huge corporations like this.
Yeah, it's a pain. I'm a 6'4 black man and it's amazing how afraid of me people seem even when I've engaged in pleasant conversation with them.
Reading this post makes it very clear why you get that "look" from your own.
It's really something how we got to play chess like that right? It's to make sure we aren't a threat and to not be statistics in our own communities/spaces.
Sigh the Black experience
Yeah man, same, I live in a place in the Nashville area called Bellevue, so you know I get looks. When I just started working at starbucks I dealt with so many people being angry that I worked there, so many people being afraid to even go through my line. Now they all love me and I can't go to a grocery store without one of them trying to talk to me or assuming they can bother my 7 month old daughter. So many old white ladies I don't know ask to hold her and I always say no. They always get offended, too. I gotta get outta here.
I'm not sure this is a compliment at all, when I really think about it.
Get you a hoodie, fam.
Yep.
Just a nigger in a coupe at the end of the day to some of these folks. *plays Story of OJ one more time*
Momma raised no fools and I plan on hitting my gramp's age of 100. I'll be damned if one of these clowns in blue take me out the game early.
It would make me feel better if I got one from you on the street, so yes. Generally speaking, everyone feels a little better when people acknowledge each other's existence. I really don't know why people don't do it in some places. Flashing a smile and/or head nod requires so little energy and so few muscles. Just do it.
As a light-skinned black guy, I got the look on a damn near daily basis for 30+ years from both white and black people. Too black looking to not have white people harass me, and too light skinned for any black people to want to be friends with. It's lead to a mostly isolated life where in the south, I had to find other friends that were a mix of races and cultures which was pretty rare where I used to live. However, I loved that my friends used to call out people who couldn't stop staring at us so they'd walk away embarrassed.
It's also that look which helped make me successful and land a pretty high paying job. Nothing gets me as motivated (outside of wanting to give my family the best life that I can) other than wanting to be better than those who look down upon me. Since I moved out of the south to where I am now, I've no longer gotten the look. And even though it lacks the diversity of where I lived, the people here just mind their own business and are pretty friendly.
It's also that look which helped make me successful and land a pretty high paying job. Nothing gets me as motivated (outside of wanting to give my family the best life that I can) other than wanting to be better than those who look down upon me. Since I moved out of the south to where I am now, I've no longer gotten the look. And even though it lacks the diversity of where I lived, the people here just mind their own business and are pretty friendly.
Black/Hispanic here. This hit home. I try to look as non-threatening as possible in White/Asian/Jewish neighborhoods. Sometimes I find myself walking faster and past people while looking at my phone so I don't frighten them or get the look. Then I resume my walking speed. As a child I didn't get looks but once I got older, I found myself trying to exhibit a "I'm harmless" vibe. Alas, what can I do. It sucks.
I remember fondly when I worked at Circuit City I had a manager come up to me and tell me to keep an eye on some kids on the CD section. Turns out they were black and brown teens. "Just act like you are straightening up the CDs." He told me when I asked him how I would keep an eye on them. I knew where he was coming from, I knew it was a thing that happened in retail shops, but I had never experienced it. It shook me to my core. I probably should have filed a report with HR at the district/corporate level, but I had no idea how to do that and I was a dumb 19 year old and I had been taught to always do what my superiors told me.
Is "the nod" different from the standard nod that we give total strangers for inexplicable purpose?
I'm Filipino and moving from Toronto to Ottawa and then to a mostly white area in Eastern PA and school in my teens was full of this stuff.
People need to experience life as an extreme minority to get it at all. It kinda really sucks.
And that's one real-ass reason why I'm content with life here. You're not so self-conscious about any of that sort of stuff.
People need to experience life as an extreme minority to get it at all. It kinda really sucks.
And that's one real-ass reason why I'm content with life here. You're not so self-conscious about any of that sort of stuff.
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I live in a really well off neighborhood. I can count on my hands the amount of black people other than myself I have seen. I don't get many if any stares. Most of the times when I see another black person i'm like
Was about to ask if PoC were fine with the head nod. I'm white and do it most of the time. It may also be completely different given this comment:
I didnt meet black people until my teens so Im sure Ive been guilty of staring in the past.
It sucks that yall have to deal with this, its bullshit. Being a white blonde boy in Mexico for middle school I had to deal with it for a tiny bit but it obviously doesn't compare.
It sucks that yall have to deal with this, its bullshit. Being a white blonde boy in Mexico for middle school I had to deal with it for a tiny bit but it obviously doesn't compare.
Heh it's actually been a while since I've noticed a bad look like the video. I'm actually a bit oblivious in general to anyone eying me positively or negatively.
Yeah I understand people being wary of the source of these types of videos but I like to be a bit positive and hope that even though the intent behind the video is likely very cynical, it's better than our media and companies completely clamming up on expressing any progressive ideals at all. At the very least a video like this might genuinely hit hard and make things click for a handful of ignorant people.
Also glad ResetERA has an imbed function because I dread the like/dislike ratio and toxic comments that the video likely already has. Bigots are grossly coordinated when it comes to finding and inundating progressive YT vids with hatred and vileness.
Yeah I understand people being wary of the source of these types of videos but I like to be a bit positive and hope that even though the intent behind the video is likely very cynical, it's better than our media and companies completely clamming up on expressing any progressive ideals at all. At the very least a video like this might genuinely hit hard and make things click for a handful of ignorant people.
Also glad ResetERA has an imbed function because I dread the like/dislike ratio and toxic comments that the video likely already has. Bigots are grossly coordinated when it comes to finding and inundating progressive YT vids with hatred and vileness.
In my experience a lot of them just get racist (or more racist) even though it should be the opposite lol.
Then they use Asia to deflect like "you think that's racist you should go to Japan!"
This, I get it more in the progressive side of town then I do in the sticks in my area.