Why? I refuse to accept half-assed agreement with, frankly, proto-fascism (or the equivalent, quisling, whataboutism).
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The Lincoln Project had no intended effect, 93% of Republicans voted Trump in 2020 vs. 90% in 2016
- Thread starter Tovarisc
- Start date
Considering it appears all of their ads were online only, they were never going to have an impact. People are down their own rabbit holes and thus ads are going to be targeted. I never saw a LP ad in PA on TV.
No problems with the Lincoln Project. They're doing something. You, not so much.
Because you are derailing the thread and accusing people of being fascist for some reasons.
You think criticism of celebrating and propping up reaganites; whitewashing warcriminals - is protofascist?
I mean, you could argue that without them Rep support would be even higher.
These elections are not going the way Dem supporters wanted, myself included, and now we are gonna start the fun game of blaming everyone and everything so we can vent and feel better
These elections are not going the way Dem supporters wanted, myself included, and now we are gonna start the fun game of blaming everyone and everything so we can vent and feel better
if absorbing millions of dollars is doing something, I should have done something for the Biden campaign
It's almost like spending a large amount of your political capital on courting votes from the opposing side while constantly giving the middle finger to your base is detrimental to your political campaign.
Who knew?
Who knew?
Yeah, they're doing something. Helping republicans and making millions off grifting desperate liberals
did you not see those numbers? republican support of trump has been higher this cycle. tell me what they did?
They made more republicans support Trump due to their obnoxious ads. See, doing something!
I don't actually think that
Exactly. The problem are the deaf ears, not the message.
What I want to know is if anyone thinks pandering to this group of Future Former Republicans was worth alienating the left.
If you are still Republican after all this shit how could you not vote Trump?
I'd say they helped drop it from 100% to 93.
Success
I'd say they helped drop it from 100% to 93.
Success
Oh the entirety of DNC donors thinks it was very well worth the effort.
And a lot of libs, even here.
They do funny gotcha ads, that's about all they're good for. Though I guess the 93% number shows that all registered Republicans are fascist bootlickers and we don't need to bother with "not all Republicans". People on the left actually sent money to the Lincoln Project?
But I was reassured the enemy of my enemy was my friend! And this was a net good because someone had to attack!
Yep. Since the very beginning, disaffected Republicans were never the target audience of these ads. It was gullible liberals desperate to sell out to that dangerous "enemy of my enemy is my friend" bs. I personally have never even watched a TLP ad because I don't want to give them the clicks, let alone donate to them.
This is why I never stop hammering on the importance of returning to a strong emphasis on critical thinking skills in our halls of learning. As has gone the death of the humanities in public education, so has the critical mind.
This is why I never stop hammering on the importance of returning to a strong emphasis on critical thinking skills in our halls of learning. As has gone the death of the humanities in public education, so has the critical mind.
I mean the whole defenses force was about taking the never trumpers and it barely budged republicans. So nah, this is a proper article.
I'm saying we literally do not have the data and results to even make the assertion on whether this succeeded or not. That;'s my argument. And even if we did have the data the article is relying on, I don't know how we would prove this argument. The Lincoln project is such a small part of the overall equation here, and there are so many other factors. It's just a bad argument.
Did they really alienate, though? I think their ads were not bothersome to anyone. If instead of Lincoln project it would've said justice democrats at the end of their ads nobody would've batted an eye. The frustrating part, indeed, is people donating them money. If right wingers want to go after Trump I'm fine with it but they should put their own money.
You're not following me here.
I'm talking about the Biden campaign and the Democratic establishment working in alignment with The Lincoln Project and alienating the left in pursuit of "Future Former Republicans".
Republicans have no actual morals. They don't care about the misdeeds. In fact, the misdeeds are comforting because it means Trump will brute force whatever they want.
Normalize the thought that the modern day Republican party is, without hyperbole, worse than ISIS. The whole thing. It brought us here, it normalized the neoliberal bullshit, it gave us Trump as the "success story."
Normalize the thought that the modern day Republican party is, without hyperbole, worse than ISIS. The whole thing. It brought us here, it normalized the neoliberal bullshit, it gave us Trump as the "success story."
the premises is built around the effectiveness of a 40 million dollar ad campaign on swaying republicans. As it stands now it was not effective, at all. Its not being treated as core piece or some cornerstone, just a simple observation. Their whole intention was to sway votes (as claimed by liberals) and votes did not sway.
The problem is that the marketed themselves as - heres all Trumps mistakes, you should vote blue because of it, but completely ignored one stupid fact, that American politics has become team based and it doesn't matter what their team does, they hate the other side and will still vote for their coloured team because its better than being a traitor!
Frankly its a cancer of all western politics recently, team based voting, it doesn't matter if your team becomes Hitler and sets up concentration camps and even shoots people in the street, they still aren't those dirty Dems
What they should have done is pointed out Trumps flaws and pointed out Democrats weren't the devil, Joe etc had good policies, but the Lincoln project weren't going to do that because they wanted scortched earth and a rebuilt republican party in their image, so couldn't jeopardise returning voters in the future staying blue
Frankly its a cancer of all western politics recently, team based voting, it doesn't matter if your team becomes Hitler and sets up concentration camps and even shoots people in the street, they still aren't those dirty Dems
What they should have done is pointed out Trumps flaws and pointed out Democrats weren't the devil, Joe etc had good policies, but the Lincoln project weren't going to do that because they wanted scortched earth and a rebuilt republican party in their image, so couldn't jeopardise returning voters in the future staying blue
As I said, we don't have the data yet to even know if votes were swayed. And even if we did have the data the core arguement is flawed, because there's no real way to figure out, just by looking at vote percentages if a political ad campaign ran by a firm was successful, because there are a whole ton of reasons why people vote the way they do. Therefore one cannot simply compare the percentage of votes in a direction four years ago, for completely different candidates in a completely different political climate, from votes made today, and then pull out one small factor and presume its place in the overall result. One could even make the argument that, who knows, the percentage of republicans voting for Biden would have been even worse that where it ended up, if not for the Lincoln project. Now that's not my argument, I'm simply saying this to point out that we don't know. Not to mention that 40 million dollars is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the ad spending this cycle. A single senate seat can have more than 280 million dollars spent on it in ads.
I don't think it was anything more than a giant vanity project for themselves, yesterday on the news those Republicans who started it were going on all the shows doing a victory lap. Looks like I didn't mean jack shit
Things are decided well before the votes go in the ballot box.
If a significant amount of Trump voters believe in qanon, there's no reaching them.
The Lincoln project's ads weren't seen as revelations by republicans, they were seen as the deep state attacking. Those attacks solidified their resolve.
Basically, the ads could not and will never be effective at 'saving the party of Lincoln', because there is no more party of Lincoln.
There's the party of Trump.
If a significant amount of Trump voters believe in qanon, there's no reaching them.
The Lincoln project's ads weren't seen as revelations by republicans, they were seen as the deep state attacking. Those attacks solidified their resolve.
Basically, the ads could not and will never be effective at 'saving the party of Lincoln', because there is no more party of Lincoln.
There's the party of Trump.
I remember someone on here making a snide comment about me criticizing TLP. A lot of galaxy brained geniuses on this website.
never ever trust the GOP
never ever trust the GOP
It was a grift, nothing more. There is no need to wait for more data.
You're basically saying that Republicans who went to the polls to vote during a pandemic were more reliable Trump voters than the average Republican in 2016, which isn't saying much. If Republicans flipped or fell away from Trump, they'd have a much larger likelihood or voting early or by mail. These numbers don't tell the whole story.
I'm glad I never donated to those idiots
They'll just be back to full republican life if trump leaves
They'll just be back to full republican life if trump leaves
Here's a fair point regarding TLP and their money from someone who criticizes them:
Big problems here well before we get to TLP's overhype and ineffectiveness. Nevertheless, they were only potentially useful in grabbing the senate and that's not happening...
Big problems here well before we get to TLP's overhype and ineffectiveness. Nevertheless, they were only potentially useful in grabbing the senate and that's not happening...
I think it's a bit early to be declaring that they had no effect one way or another when all the voted haven't even been tallied. But even so, the entire goal of TLP (and groups like Republican Voters Against Trump) was to try to sway like 1% of Republican voters into switch to Biden; just enough to cost Trump his victory.
What no one expected was that Trump would run up the margins everywhere else. If the posts everyone was sharing last night were correct and Trump gained 2-3 points with all ethnicities, but lost 5 with white males, I'd suggest that shows him losing a small amount of the traditional Republican base compared to 2016 (white men)...But not enough to overcome the new voters Trump picked up.
Still, it's probably too early to be doing any post-mortems, as much of an easy target as TLP is to blame on Biden's lack of a blowout for some.
What no one expected was that Trump would run up the margins everywhere else. If the posts everyone was sharing last night were correct and Trump gained 2-3 points with all ethnicities, but lost 5 with white males, I'd suggest that shows him losing a small amount of the traditional Republican base compared to 2016 (white men)...But not enough to overcome the new voters Trump picked up.
Still, it's probably too early to be doing any post-mortems, as much of an easy target as TLP is to blame on Biden's lack of a blowout for some.
Hard for me to take this seriously when nearly a quarter million people have died this year because of Trump's abject policy failures on covid.
Those are all exit polls, which means they are a representation of the people who actually went to a polling place yesterday. This is an atypical year with a ton of early/absentee voting, the exit polls don't show us the true composition of Trump's electorate since in person voting this year skews conservative.
People going in on ex-GOP operatives working for em as a reason for the all of this when yesterday's vote shows clearly shows we live in a GOP nation, lol.