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lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
I think I just didn't notice the "interruptions" in TP as much specifically because I liked Midna and did not like Fi.


It looks better than with it removed. I like the bokeh effect which compliments the brush stroke like textures featured prominently.
"it looks better when removed" is awfully close to people modding Sun and Moon on 3DS to not have line art and it looked really off.
 

Superking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,619
man, what a difference a mere up-res and 60 fps do to improve a game's looks.

i don't think the game looks GOOD, mind you, but it looks so much more tolerable. SS was one of the few games that i literally stopped playing cause it looked so bad.


my only question is why the hell was TP HD not 60 fps as well? switch should be more than powerful enough to have handled it.
 

Incite

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,407
Looking forward to seeing how the motion controls feel with the joy cons. Going back to most Wii motion controls has shown me how much tighter they are these days.
 

Civilstrife

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,286
Shudder...Watching this trailer gave me flashbacks to how much I disliked this game. Zelda is my favorite series and this is the first one I actively wanted to stop playing.

The best part of this game was that the backlash to it spawned two of the best games of all time. Outer Wilds, and of course Breath of the Wild.

That said, I hope people enjoy it. Especially if you don't like the more open aspects of BoTW, you may find more pleasure in this.
Also, I think the motion controls are actually a highlight of the experience, so try to play with them enabled if you can.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,754
I think I just didn't notice the "interruptions" in TP as much specifically because I liked Midna and did not like Fi.
That's fair. I do think Midna is a better character, but Fi has a humor that's underappreciated. Some of Midna's handholding takes the cake for some of the worst in the series, though. When I think of handholding in Zelda this jumps to my mind:


So earlier Queen Rutela told you that if you helped her son she would grant you to ability to swim, and you know he's in Castle Town. Midna repeats this info right after Rutela asks for help. After clearing the Twilight you need to access Lakebed Temple, but you need the ability to swim. The only way back to Castle Town is via the cannon. upon landing, Midna pops out and reminds you about Rutela and her son. This message makes no sense to be done this way since it comes up only after you head in the right direction. Like, if it should happen at all it should happen before you leave Lake Hylia.

Skyward Sword did the impossible: it made me enjoy a sliding tile puzzle!

Honestly I like a lot of dungeons more than Sky Keep, but it's easily my favorite final dungeon in a Zelda game (though to be fair the competition doesn't even come close).
 

Civilstrife

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,286
Is it finally time for Tentalus' redemption arc?
latest
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,041
We need a spinoff like Capitan Todd, except it's game that's all tad tones
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
Nothing new revealed
Also overworld really showed how restricted Wii hardware was by 2012, the worst part is being in HD you can see the cut out backdrops used to fake parts of the map, it looks so claustrophobic and I echo the sentiment the water color style that looked good on Wii's SD output looks not so great anymore
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
Never played this Zelda and the only thing I've heard about it is that a lot of fans don't seem to favor it as much. Oddly enough this has me more intrigued.
 

Morlas

Looking for a better cartoon show.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
72,742
You know despite BoTW Zelda having a british accent in english I can't help but imagine Skyward Sword Zelda having an american accent(specifically the 'generic american')
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,754
Nothing new revealed
Also overworld really showed how restricted Wii hardware was by 2012, the worst part is being in HD you can see the cut out backdrops used to fake parts of the map, it looks so claustrophobic and I echo the sentiment the water color style that looked good on Wii's SD output looks not so great anymore
I think it speaks more to how much of an improvement Skyward Sword was visually over Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, which all came out on basically the same hardware, that bumping it up to HD seems like a more modest improvement.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
46,834
this is gonna be a tough fucking sell in a post-botw world

inb4 it sells 5 million copies first week
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,760
I posted this in the other thread, but I think it's important here, too:

-------------------

As much as people complain about Fi, I really think just increasing the text speed to the same speed as Twilight Princess would do wonders. Fi actually interrupts you only as much as Midna does, and overall Skyward Sword holds your hand less than Twilight Princess.

www.zeldadungeon.net

Hey, Look, Listen: Analyzing Handholding in Twilight Princess - Zelda Dungeon

I love Twilight Princess.This 2006 Zelda title, released for both GameCube and Wii, has its share of flaws. Several key moments in the story are poorly explained, the motion controls on the Wii version (which I played for this audit) feel like they hinder the gameplay more than they enhance it...

Twilight Princess interrupted my gameplay unexpectedly 205 times. Even when compensating for hourly rates, this figure eclipses the number of Gameplay Interruptions (GPIs) for both Skyward Sword and Majora's Mask. In fact, when averaged out, Twilight Princess interrupted my gameplay unexpectedly about once every 10 minutes.
Companion GPIs in Twilight Princess are a tricky business. My playthrough encountered 28 instances where Midna was the direct cause of a GPI, which averages out to roughly 0.84 every hour.

www.zeldadungeon.net

Hey, Look, Listen: Reanalyzing Handholding in Skyward Sword - Zelda Dungeon

If you ever wanted to know exactly how much The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword holds your hand, you’ve come to the right place. You will find no exaggerated opinions based on hazy recollections here. This is an objective analysis of handholding in Skyward Sword, and I now have full faith in the...

Over the course of my second playthrough of Skyward Sword, I counted 162 GPIs

Skyward Sword remains the longest game in this audit, and my second playthrough lasted only a few minutes shorter than my first, at 39 hours and 9 minutes. This gave my second playthrough of Skyward Sword an average of 4.14 GPIs per hour, and distribution was moderately consistent over the course of the game. However, 26% of all GPIs occurred before entering Skyview Temple, which was less than three and a half hours into the game. I also did not encounter any GPIs for more than two hours between the middle of the Ancient Cistern dungeon and my first entry of the Lanayru Caves.
My second playthrough of Skyward Sword netted 28 Companion GPIs total
Over the course of my second playthrough of Skyward Sword, I found that Fi called for my attention to press Down on the D-pad just 15 times. Four of those 15 instances were clustered around my first entry into Faron Province. Aside from that, Skyward Sword's optional messages from Fi were thinly sprinkled throughout my playthrough, so measuring the hourly rate doesn't really apply here.
Skyward Sword's base game already had far less forced tutorials and handholding than Twilight Princess, so it will be interesting what they do. Seriously, just make the text speed faster and fix that bug with collectibles and we're golden.

-----------


Other than text speed there are a few other obvious errors to fix. The collectibles description thing is one.

The instances where Fi points out the boss doors in Lanayru Mining Facility and Sand Ship should be fixed so they only occur if they look like this when you walk into the trigger zone:
J45vUOW.png


Maybe tell players they don't have to chop the Imprisoned's toes?

Adding more speed boosters in the sky would be nice. This is how long it takes to fly from Skyloft to a surface entrance using a speed booster:
Yes, but I didn't like reading what Fi had to say. The interruptions are far more noticeable when you don't think the character is done well.
 

NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
Visually I think they did a respectable job. 60FPS looks nice and I can only hope that when the other 3D Zelda games get ported that they also receive this treatment. The texture reworkings look alright. Think they maybe could have done more in some areas but I would rather have this than them going overboard like with WWHD. Where they made the original arr style look worse with excessive bloom. It is a bit weird that "HD" is used as a selling point in 2021 though.

Other than that it looks like the same game so all the core problems will be carried over.

The silent realm sections are bad.
The imprisoned fights are bad.
The stealth section is bad.
Carrying the water to the volcano section is bad.
The sky overworld is bad.
The underwater tadtones section is bad.
Revisiting the first dungeon for a filler fetch quest was bad.
The excessive tutorials and Fi are bad.
The enemy design and combat are all bad and extremely repetitive. Shallow doesn't even begin to describe it.
Running through the same area over and over gets tedious.
The story is nowhere near as good as the marketing would have you believe.
The structure doesn't help the game and makes it feel like a poor man's Metroid game.

I don't think a few QOL will change that this is easily the worst Zelda game for me, 2D or 3D. It is soo poorly paced and many aspects of it are not good at all. The music is nice and i do like how it looks well enough. The concept had potential but this was one of the most tedious games I ever sat through. A few decent puzzles weren't enough to offset so many issues.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
The enemy design and combat are all bad and extremely repetitive. Shallow doesn't even begin to describe it.
The story is nowhere near as good as the marketing would have you believe.
The structure doesn't help the game and makes it feel like a poor man's Metroid game.

Hard disagree with these specifically. Some of your other, very subjective issues are such a small part of the game too, like the imprisoned. I don't even remember a stealth segment but Zelda has never been great with those, including BOTW where I really hated the Yiga hideout with that checkpointing and time wasting.

Hyrule Castle is straight up my favorite dungeon now tbh

I don't even like BOTW as much as other Zeldas but this isn't disagreeable. It was basically the standout of the whole game.
 
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RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,754
Visually I think they did a respectable job. 60FPS looks nice and I can only hope that when the other 3D Zelda games get ported that they also receive this treatment. The texture reworkings look alright. Think they maybe could have done more in some areas but I would rather have this than them going overboard like with WWHD. Where they made the original arr style look worse with excessive bloom. It is a bit weird that "HD" is used as a selling point in 2021 though.

Other than that it looks like the same game so all the core problems will be carried over.

The silent realm sections are bad.
The imprisoned fights are bad.
The stealth section is bad.
Carrying the water to the volcano section is bad.
The sky overworld is bad.
The underwater tadtones section is bad.
Revisiting the first dungeon for a filler fetch quest was bad.
The excessive tutorials and Fi are bad.
The enemy design and combat are all bad and extremely repetitive. Shallow doesn't even begin to describe it.
Running through the same area over and over gets tedious.
The story is nowhere near as good as the marketing would have you believe.
The structure doesn't help the game and makes it feel like a poor man's Metroid game.

I don't think a few QOL will change that this is easily the worst Zelda game for me, 2D or 3D. It is soo poorly paced and many aspects of it are not good at all. The music is nice and i do like how it looks well enough. The concept had potential but this was one of the most tedious games I ever sat through. A few decent puzzles weren't enough to offset so many issues.
The Silent Realms are great. They're what the Twilight Realms in TP should have been: a test of your traversal and navigation abilities.
The imprisoned fights are fun if you do them right. You have a lot of options.
Nothing wrong with the stealth section, and it's short.
I enjoyed how the bow worked in Skyward Sword and you don't get much opportunity to use it, so this was welcome. It beats the escort mission in TP.
The sky was disappointing, but at least its small.
Didn't have a problem with the tadtones, but maybe they'll make the swimming controls easier.
You run through the same area less than in previous games.
The story and characters are great.
The structure is very Zelda.
 

m4st4

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,505
Hey guys, new player here, can't wait to properly try Skyward Sword, what's goin-...
 

AIan

Member
Oct 20, 2019
4,845
The art style looks like it comes from one of those lesser known cartoons I used to watch on free TV channels. I think I'll pass on this, $60 is way too much.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
I've decided this is the Metroid Prime 3 of the Zelda series and none of you can change my mind.

I think it speaks more to how much of an improvement Skyward Sword was visually over Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, which all came out on basically the same hardware, that bumping it up to HD seems like a more modest improvement.
As far as I can tell, this is the only entry with untouched lighting. TWW HD's lighting changes may be controversial, but it's undeniably more sophisticated than SS's - and therefore, SS HD's.

TP though, I think I agree with you.
 

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,949
It looks better than with it removed. I like the bokeh effect which compliments the brush stroke like textures featured prominently.
"it looks better when removed" is awfully close to people modding Sun and Moon on 3DS to not have line art and it looked really off.
Almost like it's 2021 and maybe Nintendo should have some options in their games.

I turn off motion blur, DoF, and chromatic aberration in every game I can.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
Honestly I like a lot of dungeons more than Sky Keep, but it's easily my favorite final dungeon in a Zelda game (though to be fair the competition doesn't even come close).
That rather depends on how you define final dungeon. I'd argue Stone Tower Temple qualifies, and LA's Turtle Rock was also at least a pretty standard dungeon compared to what the 3D games tend to put out in their finales.

Isn't Dark Hyrule Castle pretty well liked? It's been a while since I played The Minish Cap.
but skyward sword is a good video game

i guess i just proved the point…

i've only played mp3 once and would love to revisit it — i'm hanging out on a remaster 🤞
I actually meant that in a good way; Metroid Prime 3 is pretty great! I just think that design-wise, it did a lot of the same stuff Skyward Sword did; sectioned-off, more linear zones, pretty straightforward on what you're supposed to do at all times, a greater focus on combat due to the controls... but while it's still somewhat controversial, it doesn't get nearly the vitriol SS does. That's interesting to me, since exploration and agency are arguably even more important to Metroid's core design than Zelda's. Perhaps the option to disable the hint system went a long way.

I do wonder how many people will take that post as a shot against SS though, I left it open to interpretation on purpose ;)
 

deadbass

Member
Oct 27, 2017
980
Ancient Cistern might be my favourite Zelda dungeon. It's beautiful, thematic, has a great item and a great boss. Plus it's based on a Buddhist short story! How cool is that?
 

Jaymageck

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,941
Toronto
I love the original game because I loved the water colour world.

Removing that just ruins the game for me. It's like removing the cel-shading in Wind Waker. It wouldn't be Wind Waker.

Skyward Sword without the watercolour aesthetic is not Skyward Sword. Love it or hate it, it's an integral part of the identity of that game.

Hard pass.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,754
That rather depends on how you define final dungeon. I'd argue Stone Tower Temple qualifies, and LA's Turtle Rock was also at least a pretty standard dungeon compared to what the 3D games tend to put out in their finales.

Isn't Dark Hyrule Castle pretty well liked? It's been a while since I played The Minish Cap.
The final dungeon of Majora's Mask is the moon.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,351
my only question is why the hell was TP HD not 60 fps as well? switch should be more than powerful enough to have handled it

Because twilight princess was a late Wii U game, which meant it was made on a shoestring budget, was more farmed out to a third party (no offense to the good hardworking folk at tantulus) than all the other Zelda remakes, which had more development priority allocated to them, being more internal affairs.

The final dungeon of Majora's Mask is the moon.

I'm very hesitant to call the moon a dungeon, any more than I am the Wind Fishes Egg for Links awakening. It doesn't match the fundamentals of all the other dungeons in the game for a start, being a very linear set of four puzzles, and even if you must count the optional side areas that are only accessible if you have the masks to access them, it's still not a good argument because those areas are by far the weakest of any puzzle part of the game.
 
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brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,478
The Silent Realms are great. They're what the Twilight Realms in TP should have been: a test of your traversal and navigation abilities.
The imprisoned fights are fun if you do them right. You have a lot of options.
Nothing wrong with the stealth section, and it's short.
I enjoyed how the bow worked in Skyward Sword and you don't get much opportunity to use it, so this was welcome. It beats the escort mission in TP.
The sky was disappointing, but at least its small.
Didn't have a problem with the tadtones, but maybe they'll make the swimming controls easier.
You run through the same area less than in previous games.
The story and characters are great.
The structure is very Zelda.

I agree with everything you said except about the imprisoned fights. I loathed them and do not look forward to doing those segments again.
 

NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
Hard disagree with these specifically. Some of your other, very subjective issues are such a small part of the game too, like the imprisoned. I don't even remember a stealth segment but Zelda has never been great with those, including BOTW where I really hated the Yiga hideout with that checkpointing and time wasting.

I never said that it isn't subjective and yes the stealth section in every 3D Zelda game is bad. I don't think that by itself is a good excuse. I have no idea why Nintendo keeps implementing stealth in Zelda when it has failed to deliver every single time. Some of those areas might have been short but they didn't feel short when going through them and they absolutely made me want to turn the game off.

Honestly, the thing that sinks Skyward Sword for me is the shallow combat system and the enemy design more than anything. I don't enjoy fighting in the game and it a huge problem because there is a lot of combat in it. More than in any other Zelda game because they want to showcase the 1:1 motion controls at every single opportunity. However, every enemy plays out in the exact same way. There is no depth to the combat system. The moment-to-moment gameplay gets boring almost as soon as the game starts.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
Some of these areas look pretty decent, others like Lanyaru Desert look extremely bland and really needed better contrast and/or saturation. It's a shame they toned the watercolor effect way down. I still remember these bullpromoshots from when the game was announced:

Faron-Woods-Art.jpg

Eldin_Volcano_Artwork.png


I guess this would have been too aggressive in the actual game.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,357
Solid ttrailer for newcomers, but im gonna have to pass for now. July is too busy/expensive for me already with some of my most wanted games dropping that month.

Great for fans or soon to be fans though.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,143
i didn't give skyward sword a fair shot in 2011. instead of taking it for what it was, i did what i always do with zelda games and heaped on hype upon hype to the game because i'm a sucker for a fantasy adventure game in which i'm the main character. the prequel that reveals everything seemed really exciting and the story focus in this game was a weakness for me.

now that i know what to expect, i think i'll have a better time. what i was really hoping for was to have some truly mindbending puzzles in the way zack and wiki played with motion controls. instead it was like... a normal zelda game except you use motion controls to solve puzzles. breath of the wild actually did this a lot more within its shrines. a confusing choice.

funny enough, i do remember quite a lot of skyward sword, where in less time i'd forgotten a lot about majora's mask and the wind waker.

skyward sword was never the bottom of my list for 3d zelda though. my major problem with it came down to the constant interruptions from fi. puzzle-solving is relatively fine, but the heart-beeping reminder and the recalibration reminder on top of that just made a nothing character really annoying. i think if it was fi's story being told, like midna's in twilight princess, there'd be less frustration with her.