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Deleted member 4037

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ZeldaMarathon.png

What games are being covered?

The Legend of Zelda
Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

What is this and why is this a thing?

I really like Zelda games. While some games didn't stick the landing for me, various games in the series have often been among my favorites for their respective generations. After having some discussions with some friends regarding my issues for Breath of the Wild, I was convinced to do something that seems crazy, but which I feel will become a fun exercise: play through the whole console Zelda series, start to finish, in an attempt to trace a through line from the first Zelda game to Breath of the Wild. I think this is an interesting experiment for a number of reasons: it lets me play some of the older Zelda games, which I have not had the chance to so far (and playing the older NES games today as a newcomer, but still a fan of the series, leads to an interesting perspective); it lets me replay some of my older favorites, and see how well they hold up; and finally, it lets me recontextualize Breath of the Wild as a game, and lets me try to assess it distanced from my expectations from the game around its launch, and hopefully better appreciate the progression of the series to where it is now.

So: I am going to be playing through the whole series, from the NES games down to the Switch. Only console games for now: the handheld games are often divergent and parallel, so they don't fit into the larger purview for this marathon anyway, and also, playing through 19 games would have driven me crazy. Each thread will be a lttp style topic on the whole game (so full spoilers) and have each game build upon the last (so only retrospective analysis, BotW can be compared to Zelda 1, but Zelda 1 won't be compared to what BotW does).So with that here we go.

Additional Note

I should mention that I have played through all the games in the covered list and have a write up written up. I started this a little over a year ago and amassed all of the analyses and will be releasing them intermittently. So if there was a certain game I didn't get to, I apologize, the core were picked out as a through line from the beginning of the series until BotW. Something like the multiplayer Zelda titles seemed kind of divergent from this and Link's Awakening was actually announced almost half a year since I had started, so before that it was grouped in more with the handhelds. For now, these are the games I have gone through.

Also please note there are full spoilers

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--The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask--
Initial release Date: April 27, 2000
Version Played: N64

Majora's Mask is an odd game... An odd game that feels really ambitious with its mechanics and while these mechanics may have been too ambitious for them in some instances, overall they make the game the freshest Zelda has been in a while due to its focus.

Gameplay
Of course the major focus of Majora's Mask is on the 3 day loop and the masks, which most of the mechanics fall into these areas. The 3 day loop particularly is an interesting mechanic that leads to a great amount of interesting content, the loop is satisfying as you aim to accomplish certain tasks within certain times. Observing the locals move within their schedules each day to perform side quests an incredible system that still feels unique to this day. It never feels like you are going to run out of time, but it feels like there is a degree of planning that is necessary.

You're never going to run out of time, but I think this is where the biggest issue in MM comes in, if you want to engage with the side content, there is a lot of time to waste. One in game hour lasts 45 seconds, for the longest mission, you are waiting around for around 36 in game hours with the longest stretch being 8 in game hours across all 3 days. This equates to 27 real minutes of just sitting around. Doesn't matter if you know what to do, heaven forbid you messed something up in the sequence and have to redo the quest, you just have to sit there because there is no way to speed up time without skipping over the moment (though I believe this to be fixed in the 3DS version). I found myself a lot of the time just putting down the controller to do something else while the clock runs, it is a great system, but it needed some fine tuning.

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Masks also add a new degree of depth, taking some of the races we got to know in OoT and letting you be them. All of them feel like unique movesets as you roll like a goron, swim like a zora, and... pop out of flowers like a deku scrub? Point being, when it clicks there is nothing in the other Zelda games quite like it. Swimming as a zora, doing flips and shit, splashing, was the most fun I had with the 3 transformative masks, but they aren't the only ones as there are various other masks that have minor abilities. These make doing side quests worth it as they offered really tangible rewards that will help you out in the main quests. In particular the stone mask was very helpful as enemies would ignore you, so paying attention to your surroundings was very important and rewarding in the game.

Now one thing I had said about OoT was that the items were good, but it would be good to expand. MM kept around the same amount of items with a little variation (and no spells which was kind of disappointing), but masks add a crazy amount of items to consider now. There are 20 non transformative masks in the game that perform minor effects, really 23 is what you can have at most, which do various things like getting you into plays, effecting your movement, letting you explode, tracking fairies, etc... The problem is now there is so much more fumbling around in the menus switching between masks and you cannot switch off a mask if youre wearing it which makes you flip back off the menu. For the value they give, it sucks that they take up one of the three valuable item slots.

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World
Termina is one of the most alive feeling worlds still, it doesnt feel much bigger than other Zelda games, but it feels dense. Every NPC feels like they have something they are doing, the time loop adds a dimension to them as you figure out what their routines are. The landscapes are diverse and it feels like there a various ways to move about the environment, everything feels fleshed out in a way where everything feels dense.

The one thing I will say towards the negative side as a small footnote is the contrast, LttP and OoT gave these stark contrast as motivation which isnt present in MM, rather the moon crashing into the town is meant to be the driving force. Maybe I just wasnt looking hard enough, but I never really visually was threatened by the moon in the same way, I would usually rely on the clock and that was never threatening to me.

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Story
It's weird. Like really weird. But really good? MM is the first to not really tell this grand adventure tale the others did, it's very sombre, very personal. Every area tells the story of these personal connections, the Deku King, the Goron child, the Zora vocalist, and the Poe brothers. They were never big events, but rather small personal tales that really are striking to the rest of the series. Especially the story of the skull kid is fleshed out a lot more than the other characters making a more sympathetic villain than we have seen so far.

The side quests echo this, they are odd but feel extremely fleshed out. The long quest I had complained about may actually be the best written one as it revolves around the story of a couple who stick together even when the moon will crush them. The stories themselves feel rewarding as you never know what is going to happen. Little did I know I would be saving cows from aliens when I went up to the ranch or sneaking into a home to find a mummified man in the creepiest way when I was in the Ikana Canyon. It feels great to engage with this content because it is so well written.

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The one thing I did find myself thinking while playing was I liked the champions in OoT a lot more than I liked the people you made masks of here. I think the major reason is in MM, you talk once and they are dead, you made them into a mask and walk in their shoes (which is great), but OoT you spent a lot more time talking with these people beforehand and they would reoccur. It made them feel like hollow shells you put on rather than people at times.

Dungeons
The dungeons can feel pretty hit or miss for the most part, they usually have a mini dungeon and then a larger main dungeon. When it hits, it hits incredibly well, Stone Tower was a masterful combination of the past three dungeons with new puzzles, it felt like Ganon's tower in LttP without even being all that the game had left to offer. It builds upon itself and adds more. Snowhead Temple also, while not going to the heights of Stone Tower, offers a great verticality that really stands out in the 3D Zelda games.

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When they miss though, they can be pretty dull or frustrating. While I actually think the Great Bay Temple is a decent dungeon conceptually, it feels very at odds with the Zora swimming as you constantly fumble around its narrow corridors. The well dungeon in Ikana Canyon is one of the worst dungeons in Zelda as it is a glorified fetch quest dungeon. Gibdos stand at doors asking you for things like bombs, fish, deku nuts, etc... Especially when the day resets your inventory, it is a pain that requires next to no skill or critical thinking. So ultimately MM gives these high highs and these low lows.

The boss fights can be incredibly fun in this one, again Stone Tower bringing a great example as you literally become a giant to fight some worms. It's not that complex, but I would be lying if I said I didnt find it fun. The main dungeon bosses all kind of rely on the gimmick, but usually spun in creative ways so that it doesnt feel stale, or any less intense.

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One side note I do want to make. Fairy collecting in dungeons is awful, I loathe it. Skulltulas were fantastic optional content because you could easily hear them and they would always be consistent about their placement. Fairies can be hidden in chests, enemies, bubbles, beehives, anywhere. Make no sound and unless you dedicate a slot to the great fairy mask, you dont know if there are any around. Side puzzle are made for them, I cant say how many times I solved a puzzle only to get a chest with a fairy inside even though I dont want your stupid fairies game.

Presentation
The music in this one is very similar to OoT, a lot of songs overlap like the song of time and song of storms while giving some more unique and quiet songs to moments. Overall the music feels a lot more muted, which is okay for the story it was trying to tell, but a lot of it feels like they were running out of ideas. Most songs in OoT hit and the ones in MM feel like they had a certain range to work with and most of it was taken by OoT already.

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The atmosphere is really great for this game though, it feels generally darker which does give it a distinct feel from OoT. Everything really feels like a compliment to its main focus.

Overall
Majora's Mask is a great game with a lot of ambition, but it is breaking so much new ground for the series (and gaming really) that it lacks a sort of polish for some of its elements. It has so many great ideas it is kind of a miracle that it turned out the way it did given the development cycle, when it hits, it is an incredible experience that rivals the best in Zelda so far, but it does have its moments failing that prevent it from being at the very top.

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Deleted member 58846

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I played through this a while back, and so far it's my least favorite of the bunch. It's got a lot of great ideas and stuff going on, but I guess it's just not what I want from a Zelda game.
That said, it's got the best city in a Zelda game ever, at least.
 

swift-darius

Member
May 10, 2018
943
my favourite game of all time. it's an incredible achievement given the weight of its predecessor and its rushed development cycle. overflowing with creative brilliance
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 4037

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I played through this a while back, and so far it's my least favorite of the bunch. It's got a lot of great ideas and stuff going on, but I guess it's just not what I want from a Zelda game.
That said, it's got the best city in a Zelda game ever, at least.
Yes, I think this is best area in Zelda just because its so lively with people having different goals or issues. The side quests are the best Zelda has as a series, the atmosphere is great, the story feels unique. Outside of that it stumbles a bit through its bold ambition. I think its a great game, but it does have its faults.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,350
The visuals and sound are so grating that I've never been able to get into it. Hated the OoT aesthetic, even though I did play through OoT back in '98. I'd love a remake on the Switch. The core concept of the game is definitely interesting to me. I love the idea of reliving the same period of time and noticing and uncovering new things each time. It's one of my favourite genre tropes -- the only example I can think of is that ep from ST:TNG ("Cause and Effect") but it plays with the same idea.
 

Raijinto

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Oct 28, 2017
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I like it.

I also disagree that the music was anything less than stellar. It perfectly extenuated every single moment and the brilliant touches of the tempo increasing with each passing day in Clock Town as well as some of the most impressive moments of the entire series (The Song of Healing, the Final Hours before the crash, the Song of Time resetting the clock and the Zelda flashback).

Not even to mention the genius of the transition to the dawning of a new day and how the sound plays a big part in that iconic sequence.

It's great.
 
I have sympathy to anyone who couldn't get into the N64 version due to its limitations. I could never quite make myself get over them.

The 3DS version was a revelation though. While some of the flaws inherent in the design are still there, the improvements and superior performance put me over the hump.
 

Deleted member 58846

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OP, how do you rank the Zelda games from the first one to MM? Just so I can get a sense of your preferences.
 

-shadow-

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Oct 25, 2017
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This will most likely forever be my favourite game ever made, flaws and all. The 3DS release looks so good, but damn, did they destroy the boss fights and Zora swimming. We could've had the absolute definitive edition, but alas...
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 4037

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OP, how do you rank the Zelda games from the first one to MM? Just so I can get a sense of your preferences.
  1. OoT
  2. LttP
  3. MM
  4. Z1
  5. Z2
The only ones I dont have a particular fondness for are the first two though. They aged pretty rough. I think the top 3 are all fantastic games.

Did you ever just let the moon crash into the earth? Because that cutscene fucking rules.

Actually no now that I think of it, I was always one step ahead of it
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
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Oct 25, 2017
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MM was never intended to be a "polished" title IMO. It took a lot of ideas from previous titles and contained them in a more liberated world. It doesn't hold your hand or tell you how to get certain items or masks. You have to find it on your own.

It's not my favorite, but I can appreciate what it brought to the series.
 

Odeko

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Mar 22, 2018
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I actually just finished replaying it (well, the 3DS remake with the Restoration Patch to fix most of the issues) and I came off way more positive than the last time I played it on the Wii VC. The setting is just so wonderful and all but Woodfall dungeon have such cool concepts. Plus the relative lack of dungeons is more than made up for for me by all the excellent non-dungeon quests. I originally thought I wouldn't like the time aspect, but the Song of Half-Time and Song of Double-Time are so powerful that it almost never bothered me, since Double-Time lets you jump ahead to any hour of your choosing instead of just 6 AM and PM like the original.

All in all, I should probably go back to the N64 version for a real comparison one of these days, but the Remake + Restoration Patch really surprised me and is probably one of my top 5 Zeldas now.
 

Twig

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Oct 25, 2017
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As it turns out people have opinions that are sometimes different from other people's opinions.

Anyway you're wrong it's amazing and near perfect.
 

7thFloor

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Oct 27, 2017
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Not as good as ERA says it is? From what I've seen the general consensus is pretty much exactly what you concluded in "Overall". I think it's every bit as good as OoT, and together they're the best 3D games in the series.
 

Speedlynx

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Nov 22, 2017
827
Great soundtrack. Good story. Well designed dungeons. One of if not THE most unique and potent aesthetic in any Zelda game.

Time/day mechanic is hit or miss for people (and if you can stand BotW's terrible weapon durability you should be fine), but I'd say it provided a lot to one of the most dreadful and emotionally charged atmospheres in Zelda and hell, all of gaming.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 4037

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As it turns out people have opinions that are sometimes different from other people's opinions.

Anyway you're wrong it's amazing and near perfect.
But I liked it...

Look. I dont like the title. I really dont. I had a different title because I think this one is too aggressive. Nobody clicks on those, you need to be extreme praise or extremely negative or just click bait. I had this thread fall off the front page with not a view. I put a shit ton of work into this so please cut me some slack to try to encourage people to read it.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,095
yeah the cult fandom around it is overstated. it's like Zelda 2 where a segment pops up and says "screw popular opinion, this is amazing!" - and they have a point - but 'underrated' and 'omg GOAT' aren't mutually exclusive
 
Nov 5, 2017
3,478
Is it a coincidence that this OP pops up as soon as EZA is about to stream some MM on Wednesday? Hmmm....seems suspicious....very suspicious...
 

Dice

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Oct 25, 2017
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I did NOT like dungeoning in this game. I literally just read Zelda Dungeon through it all (all except maybe Stone Tower, but i feel that was....too much, too late). I don't mind the time limit aspects at all except for the time takes in a dungeon.

Otherwise this game is amazing and how dare you
 

Deleted member 6215

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This game was released during a childhood sweet spot for the majority of posters on Era, it doesn't surprise me that it gets such an abundance of praise here.
 

Twig

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Oct 25, 2017
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But I liked it...

Look. I dont like the title. I really dont. I had a different title because I think this one is too aggressive. Nobody clicks on those, you need to be extreme praise or extremely negative or just click bait. I had this thread fall off the front page with not a view. I put a shit ton of work into this so please cut me some slack to try to encourage people to read it.
Sorry didn't see this edit.

I have no issue with your op, everyone feels how they feel. You're overall positive, but I'm overall way way more positive. I have VERY few issues with the game. I responded in a jokey (but sincere!) way. Clearly it missed the mark. Sorry about that!

That said if you're writing forum posts to get clicks, I feel like you...shouldn't. But then I'd never make a thread on these forums in the first place so what do I know.
 

Lobster Roll

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Sep 24, 2019
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It was awkward as a kid playing OOT and thinking that the series had hit its peak and then having MM release immediately after and destroy that opinion.
 

The Unsent

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Oct 25, 2017
19,416
It's even better, I don't even understand the criticism about having to navigate in the Great Bay Temple as a Zora. They even tried to fix that in the 3DS one. Complaining the moon isn't intimidating enough, disagree the atmosphere is amazing. I try to appreciate other opinions but I just can't see where you're coming from.