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The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Sequel Development Thread- News, Updates, and Speculation
- Thread starter WestEgg
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I don't take "revisiting BOTW's Hyrule" as something as literally as exploring the exact same map. I do think their will be areas that are in both games but I think there will be entirely new areas, equal in size to BoTW. Aonuma likes to speak in vague and broad terms. By returning to BOTW's Hyrule, I think he means bringing back the characters, the backstory, the gameplay, and general feel of this specific segment of the Zelda franchise.
My hope (and out there prediction), we will be traveling to the Sacred Realm, before it becomes the Dark World, in the sequel. The Triforce is underplayed in BoTW and it's not even clear if it is of any significance to the people of that age. I think BoTW 2 will bring it back into the spotlight but unlike in past Zelda games, Link and Zelda won't really know its purpose and part of the journey will be rediscovering that. Kind of like rediscovering lost elements of your religion.
My hope (and out there prediction), we will be traveling to the Sacred Realm, before it becomes the Dark World, in the sequel. The Triforce is underplayed in BoTW and it's not even clear if it is of any significance to the people of that age. I think BoTW 2 will bring it back into the spotlight but unlike in past Zelda games, Link and Zelda won't really know its purpose and part of the journey will be rediscovering that. Kind of like rediscovering lost elements of your religion.
I definitely want NPCs to be a major focus of this game as well. It would be another way to really enrich the world and make exploring and revisting areas that much more interesting and engaging beyond simply reshaping the environment one way or another. Much more interesting and unique side quests and little side stories that we can explore with lots of NPCs we can get to know a bit more deeply than what we got in BotW.
Nintendo in my mind I think struggled to a degree with BotW in how to tell a story that didn't conflict with the open world and total freedom nature of the game. We had only a handful at best real cutscenes during the main quests and the vast majority of the plot was told through the memories. I also think they struggled to create meaningful content to fill the world that didn't conflict with that freedom as well, thus we got 120 independent Shrines and 900 freaking Korok puzzles and that was about it. Both worked out in the end, but I wouldn't call them elegant or all that great either. They were rather blunt if effective solutions.
They couldn't easily implement the same kinds of narrative approaches to story telling or gameplay approaches with traditional dungeons and what not easily in that kind of open world setup. And while I think they've had plenty of time now to come up with better solutions to both those problems regardless having lots of independent sidequests scattered throughout the world are a really easy and engaging way to add depth to the world and its inhabitants that can supplement and enhance the main plot and/or themes as well as adding a lot of value and content to the world. There's certainly quite a lot of effort to do all that still, far more than Korok puzzles or even probably some of the Shrines, but they are still something that can more easily be added in where needed with only little to moderate alterations to the actual game world depending on the quest.
Nintendo in my mind I think struggled to a degree with BotW in how to tell a story that didn't conflict with the open world and total freedom nature of the game. We had only a handful at best real cutscenes during the main quests and the vast majority of the plot was told through the memories. I also think they struggled to create meaningful content to fill the world that didn't conflict with that freedom as well, thus we got 120 independent Shrines and 900 freaking Korok puzzles and that was about it. Both worked out in the end, but I wouldn't call them elegant or all that great either. They were rather blunt if effective solutions.
They couldn't easily implement the same kinds of narrative approaches to story telling or gameplay approaches with traditional dungeons and what not easily in that kind of open world setup. And while I think they've had plenty of time now to come up with better solutions to both those problems regardless having lots of independent sidequests scattered throughout the world are a really easy and engaging way to add depth to the world and its inhabitants that can supplement and enhance the main plot and/or themes as well as adding a lot of value and content to the world. There's certainly quite a lot of effort to do all that still, far more than Korok puzzles or even probably some of the Shrines, but they are still something that can more easily be added in where needed with only little to moderate alterations to the actual game world depending on the quest.
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I'm not against that but please correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't the Master Sword "created" more or less during the Skyward Sword game? If so, I think the notion of Triforce was already known by then and since the Master Sword already exists in BotW's era, wouldn't they know about the Triforce?
It could have been forgotten to time or otherwise lost its appeal when Ganon dismantled the royal family that had been keeping knowledge of the Triforce alive and relevant.
Breath of the Wild take place farthest in the timeline. Religions and customs change over time. History and scripture is lost. It's like how the Bible of today is different than the scriptures early Christians learned about thousands of years ago. I don't recall the Triforce or the Three Goddesses get mentioned by name in BoTW. If it was, it certainly wasn't a significant plot point. Meanwhile, Hylia appears to be of greater significance than say during the period of Ocarina of Time.
Yeah, the Master Sword was created during Skyward Sword. It's just that BotW is so absurdly far forward in the timeline that that information could super easily have been lost.
Like, 10,000 years is a fucking ridiculous number. The invention of writing in the real world is newer than that.
I mentioned this a little while ago, but it would be nice if we had a Triforce hunt again, that was actually good, having to collect pieces of all three of them to defeat Ganondorf. Would make for a meaningful collectable if we had to gather up all 24 pieces to reassemble Courage, Wisdom and Power.
Zelda invokes the full Triforce at the end of BotW, but that doesn't necessarily mean she is holding the full thing. Nor is it clear that Link and Ganondorf at this point in time actually hold their respective pieces. So it could be entirely possible that it's been broken and scattered throughout the lands in an effort to prevent Ganondorf and those like him from abusing its power. Plus the Zonai seem to be heavily associated with the Golden Goddesses. Maybe when they sealed Ganondorf under Hyrule Castle they also broke apart and sealed away the Triforce.
Zelda invokes the full Triforce at the end of BotW, but that doesn't necessarily mean she is holding the full thing. Nor is it clear that Link and Ganondorf at this point in time actually hold their respective pieces. So it could be entirely possible that it's been broken and scattered throughout the lands in an effort to prevent Ganondorf and those like him from abusing its power. Plus the Zonai seem to be heavily associated with the Golden Goddesses. Maybe when they sealed Ganondorf under Hyrule Castle they also broke apart and sealed away the Triforce.
Yeah it does make a whole lot of sense when you guys put it like that. Thank you for your perspective!
I really like the idea of going to the Sacred Realm!
I don't think I can handle NOT seeing the game at tomorrow's Direct at this point. I'm too curious - I have a feeling that whenever we see it next (be it tomorrow or in June or whatever) it will look very different from what we expect. I think a lot of work and ambition went into this, and I'm so, so excited to see what form that took.
I feel like there is no way they will give the release date already. We know the revision will probably launch alongside it and giving a release date would not only be way too early since it won't come out till atleast the end of the year but also would give away the release time for the console.
The focus will probably be on AoC DLC et Zelda collection with dates. Botw 2 might not even get a title tbh.
As for the map, i do feel like there will be significant changes to it. Each Zelda games don't aim at the same thing. Oot was exploration, MM was mainly side quests and atmostphere, WW was exploration again and TP was mainly narrative and dungeon oriented. Feel like this sequel won't be mostly focused on the wide map as Botw was. They rarely want to "redo" what a previous game did so quickly and i think they will aim at making it feel different.
So if it is the same map, i expect it will change. But tbh i feel like we will have new areas and the story will take us elsewhere.
The focus will probably be on AoC DLC et Zelda collection with dates. Botw 2 might not even get a title tbh.
As for the map, i do feel like there will be significant changes to it. Each Zelda games don't aim at the same thing. Oot was exploration, MM was mainly side quests and atmostphere, WW was exploration again and TP was mainly narrative and dungeon oriented. Feel like this sequel won't be mostly focused on the wide map as Botw was. They rarely want to "redo" what a previous game did so quickly and i think they will aim at making it feel different.
So if it is the same map, i expect it will change. But tbh i feel like we will have new areas and the story will take us elsewhere.
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In Wind Waker, the Triforce was essentially forgotten about in that time by everyone but Ganondorf, the King, and some immortal or long lived figures like the Deku Tree. The treasure hunters of the sea only know the legends of the "Triumph Forks". My impression of religion in the time of Breath of the Wild is that Hyrule has gone from revering the Golden Creation Goddesses in the time of OoT/TP/LTTP, who are very closely associated with the Triforce, to revering Hylia as their sole patron Goddess, who is less directly associated with the Triforce. As such, the Triforce has likely faded back into myth at this point, surviving largely as a religious symbol rather than a present divine artifact.
I really want them to do something crazy with the Sacred Realm. It's a setting we've heard and seen a lot throughout the series, but it's always been very brief glimpses or total corruptions that are simply mirrors of the normal world. While I really want and think they could do something really cool and interesting by making Zelda the sole protagonist in BotW2 its super unlikely with at best her being some kind of companion character, and so I would kill for the next game to be a Zelda focused adventure to the Sacred Realm that took inspiration from Alice in Wonderland. Just making it a surreal and magical adventure that takes and reimagines different elements from the entire series history into this out this world kind adventure. The Scared Realm has shown to be a very magical and malleable realm. It's the perfect setting for a really trippy and kind of out there experience. One that I think would contrast very nicely with what we'll have experience twice in the much more grounded and expansive open world of BotW1/2.
Here's my theory, which I don't necessarily believe.
Nintendo is committed to launching BotW sequel with new Switch hardware, like how BotW launched with the Switch, and they were going to release in 2020. However, Covid's major impact to international logistics and the semiconductor shortage threw a big curveball at them and they had to delay.
Nintendo is committed to launching BotW sequel with new Switch hardware, like how BotW launched with the Switch, and they were going to release in 2020. However, Covid's major impact to international logistics and the semiconductor shortage threw a big curveball at them and they had to delay.
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I personally think that the Switch successor is going to launch with the next 3D Zelda after this game, maybe 4-5 or so years from now. I imagine it is being developed alongside this game and has been for a while. The Zelda team has handled development of multiple titles at once in the past, particularly when they were producing handheld titles. Outside studios such as Grezzo have been picking up some of that slack in the meanwhile, and I believe that Monolithsoft's hirings for a Zelda project a few years ago were intended for the new game rather than this one.
The existence of AoC is pretty much proof that BotW 2 was never internally targeted for 2020.
I sure hope you aren't even slightly expecting this.
Since we're on possibly the eve of another long-awaited glimpse of BotW 2, I'll go ahead and say something about the possibility of Zelda being playable.
People keep wanting Zelda to be playable for her character's sake, but Nintendo doesn't think that way. You'll need to come up with a functional gameplay reason for Zelda to be playable, something that would fundamentally require her to perform a function that Link can't perform. When Aonuma responded with the famous comment "What would Link do?" after being asked about Zelda being a playable character, he wasn't whining about Link sitting around doing nothing while Zelda saved the day, as a lot of fans thought. He was revealing the fundamental way Nintendo looks at the LoZ series: i.e., what would Link's function be if Zelda were the PC? Aonuma, and all of Nintendo, doesn't see Link as a character but as a vehicle through which the player performs functions and interacts with the game. For Nintendo to make Zelda a PC in an LoZ game, she needs to have some kind of function that only she can perform. Simply giving her, say, a mage or archer set of abilities isn't enough, since Link could do that. Your suggestion here is close, but I'm not sure if Nintendo sees enough value in it to make a game like that. Remember, they design games from the function up. They don't design settings and characters and then work functions around them. They design functions first and then make settings and characters to go along with them. We always have to keep that in mind.
That's the problem here. There's a fundamental difference between the way the fans see the games and the characters and the way Nintendo sees them. To date, Nintendo has never seen any value in making Zelda a PC in an LoZ game because there's no function she could perform that Link couldn't. It's possible that such a function could be devised in the future, possibly for BotW 2, but it hasn't been yet. The fans see value in making Zelda a PC because they like her character, but Nintendo doesn't see it that way. In recent years, Nintendo has fulfilled the fans' desire by making Zelda a PC in spin-off games like Smash Bros., Hyrule Warriors, and Cadence of Hyrule (all of which were made by other companies, by the way), but that line of thinking hasn't yet worked its way into the actual Zelda team. Until it does, or until someone devises a function that Zelda can perform that Link can't, Zelda will continue to be an NPC in the series that bears her name.
For BotW 2, the best bet for Zelda being playable is for the game to have some kind of 2-player approach. But even then, based some of the 3D Mario games, it's entirely possible that a 2nd player would just control a cursor or something, or possibly another colored Link. I've been thinking lately, and I've said it here and in other places, that BotW 2 might feature a dual-world Hyrule, one based on the ruined Hyrule post-BotW and one based on a non-ruined Hyrule post-AoC. In such a game, Link and Zelda could be separated and each be exploring one of the two Hyrules, and players could control both, going back and forth between them. Dunno how likely that is, though. Another idea I've had is that, if my hunch is correct and BotW 2 is being held back for a co-release with a new Switch model, that the new hardware revision could have a "Zelda Mode" not in the base Switch version in order to attract core customers to buy the new model (Nintendo has used the Zelda series to drive hardware adoption among its core base many times in the past, so this isn't out of the realm of possibility). In such a case, I could definitely see Nintendo using Zelda, the character and the series, as a tool to boost sales for a new Switch. That, then, would be her "function" as a PC. This would be slightly different than the type of "function" I was describing earlier, but Nintendo is above all else a business, and they've shown repeatedly that they'll do whatever they think they have to do to increase their business.
The problem with the idea of making Zelda a mage or an archer or something along those lines is that in Nintendo's design philosophy, if they wanted to include mage or archer gameplay, they would simply give Link those abilities. That's what they've always done, and there's no reason to assume they won't continue to do that. I don't see Nintendo ever making Zelda a PC just to give her a different set of abilities than Link. They've never done that, and I don't believe the current crop of Nintendo people ever will do that. For that sort of thing to happen, it would require a sea change of development philosophy at Nintendo, and a huge turnaround of the top decision makers. That's not going to happen for a long time to come.
Another thing that people need to realize is that making Zelda playable in an actual LoZ game is a forever decision, one that can never be undone. If she's ever made playable in an actual LoZ game, she'll pretty much have to be playable in every LoZ game that gets made after that. I'm not sure if Nintendo is ready for that sort of upheaval to their LoZ development process, and I'm not sure if they ever will be.
EDIT: I forgot probably the simplest way for Zelda to be a PC in BotW 2: if she's stuck in a Shrine-like obstacle course that doesn't involve climbing (she needs Link's help to climb in the trailer, indicating that she's not cut out for climbing, which itself is a pretty strong case that she won't be playable in BotW 2, since what good could a PC who can't climb be in a game like BotW?) and the game switches to her occasionally while Link runs around the Overworld. That's a possibility, too.
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I'm still firmly on the side that BOTW2 isn't going to be shown off tomorrow. Nintendo did say it would be primarily focused on games coming out in the first half of the year. They aren't revealing every 2021 game just yet. I could see some Zelda ports being announced though.
Yeah I just realized how I was setting myself up for disaster by making my absolute minimum expectation that this game would be shown. I think my new minimum is just them announcing a 35th anniversary celebration and doing a "stay tuned for updates all year long!" I really didn't even think they'd do a 35th celebration for Mario.
I know, but usually the things that buck the trend are new game announcements, not trailers for games that are known quantities. Like the Link's Awakening remake and Kirby Star Allies. I think if we get a H2 2021 game it won't be BOTW2.
Not in the slightest. Playable Zelda is very much a pipedream scenario. It's just a fun what if to contemplate and hope for. I agree with much of your assessment on how Nintendo views things. For better and worse though they do seem to be putting more stock and emphasis on the characters and story in the series. So that might change some day, but likely not anytime soon.
I really don't see any system working in BotW2 that could accommodate both Link and Zelda as playable or present the whole time that doesn't significantly compromise the free form nature of the game. Even as an AI companion that just seems like a real nightmare to develop for given how mobile Link is. You can climb up a cliff, jump off of it and then glide 100 meters at will. How is Zelda meant to follow us in such situations without literally teleporting around like a madwoman. Actual two player co-op sounds even more problematic and demanding on a system whose hardware already struggled with the original game and even still would require some kind of invisible wall within a certain range as you can't have both characters just travel anywhere they please miles from one another.
Duel world might work, but it would need to be incredibly seamless as to not hinder or impede the player at all. Literally switching between one character/world and the other in an instant, which doesn't sound likely. Plus you get into the question of why does it need to be Zelda on the other side and not simply Link traveling between the two worlds by himself. Zelda specific dungeons/shrines might work but that seems like it would require a pretty contrived excuse to setup and again would need to be quite optional and not take control from players if they don't want to do it. Just seems like too much of a pity move for Nintendo to both with.
Oddly enough just going full on sole protagonist seems like the easiest way to make her playable even if its infinitely less likely to occur. The easiest and most likely thing they'll do is just make Zelda an NPC that helps direct us throughout the journey like Impa, Purah and such. She'd direct us to go look here, find this, collect that and work to figure out a way to get to Hyrule Castle and fight Ganondorf. I think they'd need to have come up with a really brilliant and outstanding mechanic that was foundational to the game to justify trying to work in Zelda as a companion or playable character alongside Link. And I'm just not sure they have that.
Yep.
I just remember all the screaming 'round the Internet after E3 2014 when people briefly thought that Link was a girl, only for Aonuma to go like "nope, just joking, lol." And then again after E3 2016 with the whole "What would Link do?" debacle (which people greatly misunderstood, like I said). So I decided after that to go on the offense and be proactive in explaining why Nintendo didn't just do it like fans wanted them to. So whenever I see people start to drift off, I try to bring them back to the mainland of reality. Even Aonuma's comments of "Why do people want Zelda to be playable?" after E3 2019 were misconstrued, like he was teasing something rather than expressing legitimate confusion why so many people keep asking about something that he doesn't think about at all.
Personally, I've spent the last 18 months or whatever racking my brain trying to think of a gameplay gimmick that Nintendo might use to justify Zelda being playable in BotW 2, but I just can't think of one. The closest I've come up with is some sort of multiplayer gimmick involving the whole "Switch" pass-the-controller concept, but I really don't know how that could be worked into Zelda-style, and specifically BotW-style, gameplay. I just don't want Zelda to spend the whole game trapped with Ganon, which is what I expect will happen. So I'm trying to come up with any reason I can think of to believe something else might happen instead! The biggest "clue" is her short hair, which could be taken as a sign that Nintendo intends for her to be playable and doesn't want her hair to clip through her body all throughout the game. But even that's inconclusive, as that could just be for story reasons or simply a sign that she's an in-game asset this time around, rather than being relegated solely to cutscenes like in BotW. Wouldn't it be nice if we actually saw footage of BotW 2 tomorrow and saw Zelda doing things in it that could lay these doubts to rest--if nothing else, just following Link around? Ah, but then we wouldn't be dealing with Nintendo, would we? Sigh. Better to expect that she'll spend the whole game up on the flying castle with Ganon than to expect anything else.
I think Nintendo sees the spin-offs--Smash Bros., Hyrule Warriors, Cadence of Hyrule--as being enough in terms of Zelda being playable.
EDIT: I also wanted to say that I could see Zelda being an AI companion in Shrine-like puzzle areas, or mazes. Her following Link around would work MUCH better in a specifically designed obstacle-course like area like the Shrines. Maybe when you're in the Overworld she could be helping with the rebuilding of Hyrule and when you're in the Underworld (or whatever this game's equivalent of Shrines will be) she tags along as a companion? This, I think, is the best possible outcome. But she'll probably just get captured at the beginning again, like always. Sigh.
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If Zelda were playable, what would poor link do
the triforce would implode because of the disrupted balance
the triforce would implode because of the disrupted balance
Lol, those are two different things.
"What would Link do?" was a response to Zelda being playable. "Balance of the Triforce" was in response to the Triforce holders having set genders.
Not like Nintendo actually cares about any of this, anyway.
Zelda's upper body strength precludes her from playable status the same way a girl could not be the lead in The Last Guardian.
literally impossible in a video game
literally impossible in a video game
Well, if you watch the trailer closely, you'll see that Zelda needs Link's help to climb... you might be onto something here!
Stop while you're already behind
Don't blame me. I'm not the one making the decisions. I'm simply calling it like it is.
I think we'll see new footage of it, the real question is whether we'll see a new release date.
They're not gonna tell us another presentation we're still working on it. High chance they drop another trailer if it's holiday. It makes complete sense
No. At this point you are pushing for it. Just back off. There's no reason to be so passionate about sexist design choices.
"Please be excited" is trademark Square Enix, though, no?
It's best to completely disregard anything they say after "our Direct airs at this time on this day" unless we're talking about a game/franchise-specific Direct. The phrase "focusing on games coming out XXXXX" confirms they will drop a bomb or two for something else. This could be anything though. They might show Zelda already or they might just drop New Tomodachi Life on us and still fit that bill.
Agreed.
Even if it's not shown off in this Direct, I suspect that we'll be seeing updates at some point in 2021.
If they say that they are "still working on it", it will be a 2022 title, i think
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Reminds me of how 10 year old OoT Zelda chucked an Ocarina with a throw an NFL quarterback would envy.
That was a fluke due to her midichlorian count.
not more than Hidemaro Fujibayashi. It may be a chicken and the egg situation as to where the concern over lore originated, but he as director and writer for the series absolutely cares.
this so much...
i know he cares and i really liked BOTW's story but i don't think Nintendo is very worried about how we will lose the master sword again and yadayada.
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