Maybe Zelda will have the Sheikah Slate.
I am curious what the green magic will do.
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The Legend of Playable Zelda: Setting Ourselves Up for Disappointment... Together! (Speculation, Discussion, and Wishful Thinking) [Media Heavy!]
- Thread starter Finale Fireworker
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Maybe Zelda will have the Sheikah Slate.
I am curious what the green magic will do.
See I think that's good writing. It plays on Tetra's long held desire for home and family. It's a choice she makes with agency born of the seduction of purpose ie " You are my daughter and a princess, this is how a princess acts" is something Tetra willingly goes along with.
The game also goes on to show the flaws of that choice, the trappings of that choice and how past social expectations have trapped previous Zelda's.
Tetra both literally and metaphorically breaks free of these expectations by choosing to be herself (pirate tetra) participates in the final fight with Gannon (This should appear in this thread somewhere as a reminder to EPD of how Link and Zelda can fight together) and then continues her search for a home (with Link beside her) born of the idea that she is free to create her own legacy/destiny
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Nintendo like to include their exotic hardware choices as mechanics ie WiiMote = Skyward Sword, 3D ALBW, Gamepad= BotW. If Green Hand = Joycon it's worth remembering that there are two Joycons and Link only has one green hand...
For me it was probably realising that this cool and mysterious character Sheik was in fact Zelda, and then seeing her get damsel'd the moment she wears a dress and has makeup... because a change in attire suddenly makes women frail and weak, I guess. I remember feeling really deflated seeing that as a child, though I didn't have the words to express why. I just thought "this is lame".
I haven't played Ocarina since the N64 and forgot how messed up that was too.
At least she chose to stay in the castle and hold Ganon in BotW. Yeah, Link still has to help her, but she saved him first after he got his ass kicked. So... progress I guess.
Agreed. Zelda / Shiek is not only the best reveal in any Zelda game, but they were one of the best iterations of Zelda because they gave her the power to take matters into her own hands. Having her get snatched immediately after the reveal was incredibly frustrating.
I've probably written about this like a dozen times now in various threads, but I desperately want a mainline game staring only Zelda modeled around Alice in Wonderland and taking place in the Sacred Realm. A kind of surrealist adventure through a magical and otherworldly place that is both a bizarre reflection of the real world and has its own unique and surreal elements.
We've never truly gotten to see the Sacred Realm before, just glimpses or corrupted versions. It would be great to see the real thing, though with the odd interpretation of familiar places/faces from past games.
And seeing Nintendo's take on AiW could be so cool and interesting and would provide a really spectacular setting for Zelda herself to be explored in. A great mix of magical and physical.
We've never truly gotten to see the Sacred Realm before, just glimpses or corrupted versions. It would be great to see the real thing, though with the odd interpretation of familiar places/faces from past games.
And seeing Nintendo's take on AiW could be so cool and interesting and would provide a really spectacular setting for Zelda herself to be explored in. A great mix of magical and physical.
Check out my post at #55. Pretty sure it's the Shekia Slate replacement. The ability to freeze and levitate objects and detonate bombs are all integral in the BotW formula gameplay wise. Green arm will undoubtedly do these things. I expect new mechanics too. Maybe a push/pull burst. Maybe a liquid gun of some sort. I would love to see more water based gameplay. Whatever it is, it will be physics based and a core ability.
Really great thread, thank you! I really enjoyed reading it and I'm fully on board with a playable Zelda. I'm still not sure what direction I want them to go or even expect them to go, but I'm excited!
I know, it's probably tiring to hear, but:
It's the English VO that's so bad! Other regions got much better voice acting, like Japan, or Germany!
I know, it's probably tiring to hear, but:
It's the English VO that's so bad! Other regions got much better voice acting, like Japan, or Germany!
Wow the part in the OP about Zeld'a power emerging when she displayed courage hit me like a ton of bricks. I wish that the game had conveyed that sort of moment and characterization with the impact it deserves, but that's the nature of open-ended play vs storytelling.
I'm torn on if I want BOTW2 to truly be BOTW2. Meaning, do I basically want the same open-world structure of a game starring Zelda? I think that has the potential to be seen as a true sequel/successor to BOTW and will sell as much if not more. It might, however, cut off the legs of BOTW so maybe that's something Nintendo wants to save for Switch 2.
So maybe the better bet is to go with a more experimental followup that doesn't replicate but more complements BOTW. Something with more serial storytelling, maybe a more traditional dungeon structure, or maybe even my biggest hope: a Resident Evil 5 style co-op game. Just the thought of a co-op Zelda game with the slick controls and pacing of Resident Evil 5 gives me chills.
I'm torn on if I want BOTW2 to truly be BOTW2. Meaning, do I basically want the same open-world structure of a game starring Zelda? I think that has the potential to be seen as a true sequel/successor to BOTW and will sell as much if not more. It might, however, cut off the legs of BOTW so maybe that's something Nintendo wants to save for Switch 2.
So maybe the better bet is to go with a more experimental followup that doesn't replicate but more complements BOTW. Something with more serial storytelling, maybe a more traditional dungeon structure, or maybe even my biggest hope: a Resident Evil 5 style co-op game. Just the thought of a co-op Zelda game with the slick controls and pacing of Resident Evil 5 gives me chills.
Calling Zelda damsel'd in that situation isn't really fair at all. You can argue that gender politics and link being the player caused the ending to play out the way it did, but to say that Zelda got damsel'd is something that ignores the rest of her arc.
Zelda is the rightful ruler that Ganon wants dead, as such she spends years hiding, training and eventually leading a rebellion against Ganon's Rule.
She is told Magic is what will defeat Ganon so she trains as a sage, she becomes skilled enough that she rescues/trains the other sages and as a failsafe/because she is being watched/hunted trains Link a person she knows she can trust as a backup knight/sidekick/assistant
When Shiek shows up dressed as a princess it's not an Ugh look I'm a plot related damsel now. It's her crowning moment. It's the classic return of the hero moment (Which in OoT is Zelda, not Link) kind of like this only set in the Zelda universe.
However in a universe where even Heroes fall (Fallen Hero timeline) Zelda's moment is undercut.
She's not a damsel in distress and without agency but the driving force of the story who is arguably the game's true legendary hero (like her later/earlier iteration Hylia in Skyward Sword) and she is defeated.
It's fair to think that the defeat is unearned especially as a child used to storytelling where the hero always wins. Yet Zelda being the person who mostly trained, taught and guided Link deserves as much credit for his success as he does. We don't say Batman was fridged or a damsel in distress when he is saved by Robin and that same sentiment should apply to OoT
It is very much fair, she was damsel'd. She literally showed her true self and then was immediately captured and whisked away to the top of an evil king's castle for the hero to go rescue her, that's like text book, dictionary definition of a damsel. And that's not even taking into account the larger context and prevalence of such events happening to her in the series which only exacerbates that fact further. It's not something you can just isolate and not examine larger context and history. This isn't just some one off instance, multiple times Zelda has been sidelined once her true, more feminine/princess identity was revealed. OoT, WW and SS all did this in some way. Then there's AoL, LttP, LBW, TP, PH and ST which all either explicitly use Zelda as damsel or use scenarios very close to it as a or the major motivating factor for Link in the story.
TP and WW at least provided more meaningful roles for her in the final battles, but the series as a whole has not been great at all.
I disagree on this being a textbook DiD case. Again because context matters. In the DiD trope the captured Damsel is treated solely as a prize and that doesn't apply here. Zelda isn't captured as a prize for Ganon to marry or act as the primary motivation for Link defeating Ganon.
Zelda is captured because she is a threat. In fact she is Ganon's primary threat and he has been futile in his hunt for her for the past 7 years. Zelda reveals herself in order to lure him into her trap where she along with the other sages will seal him again.
This is the start of the final battle and capturing Zelda is meant to be the signal that Ganon has won by removing all opposition. That's the end. To the world of OoT Link is a nobody.
Furthermore Link doesn't go to the Castle to save Zelda he goes to defeat Ganon. Zelda's return/rescue is not the primary motivation of Link/The player, and Zelda is not Link's prize upon her rescue. Link either leaves town or reverts into being a child. This lack of a reward further invalidates this as a DiD scenario.
I think it's important to do both. You can isolate within specific contexts to have thoughts on those scenarios and what is actually happening. Yet at the same time acknowledging the series history is also important. Without focusing on specifics and only focusing on larger trends (also gleaned from unspecific observation) it makes ignorance a very easy position to take.
I haven't played every game in the series but of the ones that I have (OoT, WW, SS, MC, ALBW, BotW) they go into a few categories.
Minish Cap and ALBW put Zelda straight in the fridge.
BotW I'm personally not a fan. I think people look past its flaws because "look she's not a typical princess she's a scientist" is Zeitgeisty and trendy conventional thinking. Insomniac's Spider-Man suffers the same issues with their version of MJ. I think in general Nintendo went very backwards with its representation of women from the WiiU to the Switch
OoT, Wind Waker and SS are all really well told Zelda stories though. Sheik, Tetra and Hylia are all their own individual persons with their own agency making their own choices, decisions and sacrifices to achieve their goals. However the nature o
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When they get separated, and I'm pretty sure you'll get to play Zelda at this time in a dungeon (for instance), whatever you do in that dungeon affects what you will be able to do with Link in his part of the dungeon we you go back to control him.
When they get separated, and I'm pretty sure you'll get to play Zelda at this time in a dungeon (for instance), whatever you do in that dungeon affects what you will be able to do with Link in his part of the dungeon we you go back to control him.
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What I think you are missing here is that all of this can still be true with Zelda still being turned in to a damsel, which is something a lot of her fans hate. I think a lot of players recognized that as soon as Zelda revealed herself she was probably about to be kidnapped. I know I did. The predictability of that event is fed by the prevalence of the trope itself.
The name of the trope as it appears in Ocarina of Time actually has a specific name: the empowered damsel.
Ocarina of Time shares some similarities with Breath of the Wild in that Zelda is guiding Link on his journey to awaken mighty heroes. She has an active role in the story, drives it forward, and provides the context and motivation for everything Link does. Even though Link is the hero, his adventure would not be possible without Zelda. Zelda, as Sheik, is also highly skilled in stealth and deception. She is a badass. She is, in my opinion, an unrivaled supporting character as far as the Zelda series is concerned. Zelda's growth as a young-girl-with-a-plan in to magical ninja orchestrating her own return to power is truly excellent and pretty ahead of it's time for 1998.
Zelda is portrayed throughout the game as a mastermind. She is ahead of the game. At any given time, from the moment you meet her, she knows more about what's going on than anyone else. She devises a plan, puts it in to action, and improvises on the spot to ensure her longterm success. As an adult, she has excellent survival skills and physical prowess. She has skills Link does not understand. She has knowledge Link can barely comprehend. She is a ninja. She is a musician. She is a historian. She is a leader.
All of this rules.
However, despite all of this, Zelda still becomes a last-minute damsel in the most classical and traditional sense. This isn't really a question. It's a codified and exemplary demonstration of the trope. Ocarina of Time portrays Zelda's survivor identity as a temporary necessity. It only exists until she needs to be kidnapped for story reasons. Then it's back to tradition.
Why does Zelda, the Sheikah ninja, after a lifelong effort of careful deception and disguise, transform in to a pretty pink princess in the extremely vulnerable Temple of Time? Well, it's because she is about to be kidnapped to add more stakes to the narrative. Now, not only is the mission to defeat Ganon, it's to rescue Princess Zelda. You don't get much more "damsel" than a pink princess imprisoned in a crystal. She sheds her strengths, her powers, and puts herself in to a risky position strictly so the story can move her from actor to object. This is a real pity.
It's not all bad. While her role is mostly passive after her transformation, she does restrain Ganon with her magic in the final fight and is able to open the barred doors for she and Link to escape. But she still becomes all chest-clutchy and gaspy at the sight of all the falling rocks and takes no part in dispatching the enemies as you escape. At least she doesn't need to be carried out of the castle fireman style or something. But her entire personality and demeanor changes dramatically, as do her apparent powers and skills, after she puts the dress on. Much of this can also be said about Tetra in Wind Waker, which carries out very similarly. The baby step made in that game is that Zelda uses the Light Arrows in the final fight. This sort of tiny, incremental progress isn't super satisfying after two decades.
The empowered damsel is like a half-step towards full female narrative dignity. It's certainly better than a passive damsel with zero personality or narrative influence - a literal retrieval object (which Zelda has been in the past). But it's just bettering a common trope and relying on it to create drama for male characters. Given how old Ocarina of Time is at this point, I don't think it's unreasonable to hope future games are able to break the damsel tradition entirely.
Zelda is still damseled. She's just a more empowered damsel than usual. Not all damsels are created equally, you know? It's not a trope that exists in any one, singular form and not all of its depictions are equally bad. You might even feel like the trope is used effectively, but it doesn't mean the trope isn't present. Regardless of how you feel personally, you can probably understand why it's disheartening for many to have such a cool character revealed to be Princess Zelda only for her to immediately be kidnapped and need to be rescued. It's as if to say her true identity, and true place, will always be in Ganon's clutches and waiting for Link to save her.
But now we have this thread which is 100% going to make Zelda playable, finally. So that's good news.
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I would love if they found away to keep the story open enough that you could play as either one. I group up playing as Link and want to continue on untill I die. I would love for my daughter and anyone else that would like to play as Zelda have that choice though.
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I actually forgot about this, despite hearing it before. Apologies for my anglocentrism in this respect. :O
It's actually quite interesting because I don't think Zelda's English voice is very befitting of a hero. It has a lot of soft-spoken royal grace to it. It's a restrained style of speaking for sure. Long sentences with hesitant cadence. It suits the character in the cutscenes, but she would need to be acted differently going forward if she was going to take on a more active role. This is obviously possible, even with the same voice actress, but the direction would need to be different.
Zelda being a speaking character would actually be a first for Zelda protagonists. Link's plain personality is meant to never conflict with whatever the player is thinking or feeling in that moment, which I think is very successful. Zelda is much more fully-formed, however, which changes the way the player interacts with the world. I wonder how they'd manage that? I don't think she'd speak much in the field like Lara Croft or Aloy but she's a vocal character with a thought process that would have to be reflected in some way - at least in cutscenes.
They've teased it so much before and the BotW2 trailer is setting it up again. It's 2019. There's no excuse for Zelda not being playable. And imo it must be Zelda. Not Linkle, not female Link, Zelda deserves it.
My hope is that for BotW2 you can switch between Link and Zelda at any time, with Zelda having Triforce magic that grants abilities different from the Sheikah slate, and that each of them get mandatory story moments where they're required.
And it would be amazing if they made a game from Zelda's POV during OoT.
I also have to mention how cool it was being able to play as Zelda in Hyrule Warriors. She can do so much more than be a damsel/helper and it's frustrating she hasn't gotten a chance in the main series.
My hope is that for BotW2 you can switch between Link and Zelda at any time, with Zelda having Triforce magic that grants abilities different from the Sheikah slate, and that each of them get mandatory story moments where they're required.
And it would be amazing if they made a game from Zelda's POV during OoT.
I also have to mention how cool it was being able to play as Zelda in Hyrule Warriors. She can do so much more than be a damsel/helper and it's frustrating she hasn't gotten a chance in the main series.
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I'd settle for a tie-in comic. I can't believe this has never been explored before.
This touches on my issue with her depiction from Sheik to adult Zelda. It was such a whiplash.
I connected well with child Zelda. She wasn't particularly empowered, but she was energetic, bubbly, full of innocence (as is expected of a child), adventurous and good natured. And while she is whisked away, she isn't imprisoned, but instead taken to safety by her lifelong carer and trusted guard Impa, a woman. None of this is insulting to her character. Everything about her made sense for the life that she had lived up until this point, as well as her age. Link is definitely the hero of this story, and the one who defies expectations as far as his capability goes, but Zelda's depiction seems understandable and I wasn't left disappointed by her depiction, especially as a child.
Sheik is a stoic and wise badass. I found her character mysterious and alluring, and as you said, she plays an integral part in the game's story, and her help enables Link to actually fulfil his mission. She seems capable and dependable. So finding out that that child who I found endearing and was sad to see separated from Link earlier actually grew up to be Sheik was refreshing and exciting. I quickly wondered what her journey had been like and what she had experienced, because she'd clearly been through a lot.
But then... as soon as she's actually Zelda, everything about her changes. I don't mind Zelda dressing in feminine attire or makeup. I think Cadence of Hyrule Zelda is incredibly badass, for example, and played the entire game as her. But like you say, her demeanour changes along with her outfit. Now that she's wearing a dress and face full of makeup, she is a different person. She's suddenly demure, fragile and dependent entirely on Link. She gasps in fear when rocks fall, which is something I can't imagine Sheik doing. She follows Link around like a lost child. This is all to emphasise her new status as a damsel. And of course, there's how quickly she is imprisoned after her transformation. None of it matches with the experiences she must have had up until this point, or how she was portrayed as Sheik. It was exciting for me as a young girl to relate to this wonderful female character, and it felt like it was very quickly snatched away, which felt, as child me would put it, " very lame".
This is why I've found I feel very fondly towards child Zelda and Sheik as characters, but have always been a bit put off by adult Zelda. They are all the same character, but are depicted differently. Ocarina of Time is still my favourite game of all time, let alone my favourite Zelda game. And I do think the Sheik / Zelda reveal is still one of the best character moments in any Zelda game, but the way adult Zelda was treated after that reveal is still disappointing to me today. Except now I'm old enough to analyse why.
Green hand is replacing shekia slate. See post #55. But yeah I think this is the biggest desire at this point; switch between both characters. Runner up would be AI companion for entire game.
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If Link has a magic green hand, he won't need the Sheikah Slate anymore, so Zelda can have it. 💃
Watch the video closely. Neither one has it. Not to mention, didn't she try to use it in BotW and nothing happened?
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Memory 7: Zelda's Resentment said:
There's always a work around. :P
While the glowing green hand is like 99% most certainly the new gameplay gimmick for Link, I'd love it if he was really just getting possessed or something and basically fridged instead. Let him sit trapped inside a giant hunk of crystal for once or as nice glowling green statue.
The case for playable Zelda is strong. But what are we anticipating? Playable sections (Bit like Ellie in TLOU)? Full choice between Zelda or Link? Or Zelda as the sole protagonist?
Personally I like the 3rd option, where "The Legend of Zelda" title finally makes sense.
Personally I like the 3rd option, where "The Legend of Zelda" title finally makes sense.
Option 3 should really be the only one. Realistically we'll most likely get nothing at all. If they were to do something I would expect at most something like option 1. Some are convinced of the potential for drop in co-op for a second player to control her, but I think that's a no go. BotW's entire schtick of exploration and everything would be catastrophic and probably a huge pain to manage two players on the screen. Zelda would basically have to warp to Link every 3 seconds if she didn't stay right in frame. Full choice seems the least realistic to me.
Okay first off, the sheer effort that has very clearly gone into this thread is spectacular, bravo. Like I'm basically in awe at the sheer amount of work that putting together those first couple of posts must have taken, lol.
With that said, here's my two takes on this:
With that said, here's my two takes on this:
- I want a playable Zelda, which i am sure comes as a shock with my avy and everything, but I do. I feel like she would make for an entirely different style of play than Link (you can make her a more Magic/puzzles focused character, since she embodies "wisdom"; I have always felt that not starring her in the puzzles-focused Oracle of Ages was a missed opportunity on this front). I feel like Breath of the Wild's incarnation of Zelda is ripe for being playable as well, given her development in the game implies that she has the power of the Triforce, but we never actually see her in action other than on two occasions. So they have a lot of room to work with in terms of giving her abilities should she become playable. It also helps that unlike in Ocarina of Time or Skyward Sword, Zelda hasn't completed her journey by the end of Breath of the Wild, so there is scope for her to grow narratively and mechanically. With this said, however:
- I don't think this will actually happen. I don't see it happening, because of something Aonuma said that I find telling. In Aonuma and the Zelda Team's mind, mythologically, this series is about following Link as he tries to save Zelda's kingdom from evil over the ages. The blood of the goddess, the hatred of Demise, and the hero chosen by the Triforce, over the ages, locked in an endless struggle. You're meant to see the story from Link's eyes. I don't think they will deviate from that, because to their eyes, that might be too much of "breaking from convention" of the Zelda series. Maybe I am wrong on this (and I hope I am!), but to me it seems like any control of Zelda we get will be via Link as an intermediary, such as in Spirit Tracks.
I mentioned earlier on in this thread that I was working out an article on this, and it came out today in Haywire Magazine! Some relevant excerpts:
Given that BotW's Past storytelling places Link and Zelda as a duo/team, you would expect something where they were both journeying together.
Gameplay wise it could be that you switch between them and the other is AI controlled, this could lead to local co op play across multiple switch devices.
Otherwise maybe a choice at the start and you play as your preferred character (Zelda or Link) and plot takes away the other. But ideally a shared journey* would be the best
* that encourages families to buy multiple switches and multiple copies of BotW and an online subscription to play Zelda together. There is a lot of money in that idea
And that's the OTHER reason I see this playing in our favor. One of the big things Aonuma harped on was challenging the conventions about Zelda being singleplayer and a multiplayer experience, yes?
What better way to encourage than to give players not only the incentive to play as Link and/or Zelda as they so wish, but to also pal around with other players at home, and around the world?
...Or they could even go in a "Souls-esque" direction, and maybe play up an angle that goes for an asynchronous multiplayer. Which would be good for those who like the idea of Link and Zelda being separated.
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In writing and researching this thread with Llyrwenne, I found myself really appreciating Ocarina of Time Zelda more than any other incarnation. Ocarina of Time has been analyzed, dissected, and taken apart more than almost any other game, but I never really appreciated one of it's more undersung qualities: the writing. Contrary to my expectation, there really is a decent story there. There are good characters with interesting stories. Chief among them, and the most interesting character of them all, is Zelda herself.
And I don't know why I never realized that. I've played OoT a lot. The game prodded and kindled my imagination like no other game did at the time. But when I played it as a kid, I never really saw past Link. It's only now, as an adult, I can see Zelda. Who she was, what she was doing, what her strengths were, and how her role in the story is extremely active. Link is the sole protagonist of the game, but Zelda is the second protagonist of the story, really. The story relies so much on Zelda's intentions and interventions. Link, himself, is really just along for the ride to assist Zelda in her own goal of reclaiming her birthright.
That's why she's most betrayed by Ocarina of Time. It's the most active, individually talented, and awesome iteration of Zelda. Then she is cut down immediately in the wake of her big moment. Breath of the Wild wishes she could be Sheik, but Ocarina of Time Zelda actually was.
I like Link a lot, especially in Breath of the Wild. But I think there's something symbolic of liking the Zelda series for so long and never really seeing Zelda for all she could do until I was old enough to see past the back of Link's head.
This was a good read! Thanks for posting it. That's funny we were both working on this at the same time. I even had this same conversation with another friend about how Zelda would be much more interested in Hyrule and its history and mythology than Link. In Breath of the Wild, there's so many little secrets and remains of the old world that certainly could interest the player but holds no personal interest to Link. This would not be the case for Zelda. It was Zelda who wanted to know how the Sheikah lived and how their technology worked. Not Link.
In that sense, Zelda would be a better fit for the exploration and discovery that is such a strong quality of Breath of the Wild. If only because she has a real appetite in the material the same way the player would. I know this archetype already exists elsewhere in gaming (the Lara Croft and Aloy kind of character, and arguably even Samus), but I like to play as characters who take an interest in the world around them.
I think, if I had to put money on anything, it would be in some form of coop. The old slide where Aonuma said one of the top conventions they were looking to challenge was the idea of playing Zelda by yourself is telling. This was not implemented in Breath of the Wild, but they clearly thought about it and experimented with it in some way. Maybe this meant coop, maybe this meant asynchronous multiplayer, maybe it meant some sort of shared game world, but my money is on coop.
That said: what would coop in a Zelda game even look like? I know there have been multiplayer Zeldas before, but nothing like Breath of the Wild. It's hard to imagine a way it could be implemented that would actually be fun. I wonder if they came to the same conclusion and that's why it wasn't implemented in BotW at all.
The team on BotW2 says they're playing RDR2 for inspiration. I wonder if it will have Online elements.
How did I miss this thread until now? What an enjoyable accompaniment to my morning coffee, thank you Finale Fireworker and Llyrwenne!
A couple personal notes:
A couple personal notes:
- One of my favorite incarnations of Zelda has to be Tetra from Wind Waker! I found the transformation she must undergo from scrappy pirate boss to Princess of Hyrule to be absolutely amazing. She had to go from making moves in the outside world to praying for Link from the sunken world, which could not have been an easy change of character. Nonetheless, she accepts her fate and carries through with the will and wisdom we expect.
- I got a rough notion of what Zelda was feeling in BoTW, but this thread totally makes everything clear. Can you imagine how awful it would feel to be so...useless, especially in a time when people need you? To have to watch your friends fight, yet to be unable to achieve your own power and destiny. Yet that one memory...incredible!
- A voice inside the Master Sword...could it be who we think it is?
- Like many other people, I've always enjoyed playing the Legend of Zelda games. I've certainly connected with the playable character, Link, as was intended. I'd just assumed it was me filling myself into the void that's available within the silent protagonist, and it wasn't until reading those quotes a while ago about Link's original design intended to be androgynous that it's made more sense to me. Of course I didn't mind playing as a boy, because most of the time it hardly even felt that way! Besides, we all know that r/linkiscute.
- That being said, I'd rather play as Zelda! Especially the Zelda we have built up in BoTW. I want to carry that burden through her, to know what her struggle has been like from her own perspective, and to save the world as a different wielder of the Triforce.
I'm very skeptical at the feasibility of this co-op idea, at least in a meaningful way since couch coop is usually a high priority for Nintendo in these situations. So I'd be rather surprised if they went with an online/second system only option.
There's just no way to have two players on the screen at the same time in an open world game like this. That's why there are pretty much no coop games with open spaces and camera controls that do that. Everyone that does is fixed camera, enclosed areas. It's just impossible to make it work otherwise or you get shit like Fable 2.
The only real feasible way to handle it is to have it be second system/online only with Zelda as either a constant AI partner someone else can take over or as an optional drop in character like Wolf Link. But I'm skeptical how they would include such a major mechanic and shift for the series behind a barrier like that which doesn't promote local play.
Even then, if they went with second system/only option that still introduces a lot of technical and artificial issues. For a game very much centered around going anywhere and doing anything needing to keep two players together in tandem, working together that creates a lot of issues. I very much doubt either player could just go anywhere, there's going to be a distance limit and mechanics in place to keep them together which introduces limits and interference on the player with artificial systems like invisible walls and teleporting one player to another. Link can't be in Rito Village while Zelda is chilling in Hateno. The world stops when dialogue boxes appear or when Link opens the menu, would that just not apply now to the other player. How do you freeze all the enemies and characters in the world for one player and not the other?
Just watch coop gameplay of Portal 2. Just add some monsters and 3rd persion perspective, done.
I waffle back and forth, but sometimes I really do think that maybe something more asynchronous would work great for a game like BOTW.
There's just something about the idea of Link and/or Zelda leaving "messages" behind for the other to find, and even getting Soulslike memories to play out that give a glimpse of where the other succeeded or failed, would just work out well in a game like Zelda, where it's all about using clues to figure things out for yourself.
Of course, this may not be enough for those who want actual co-op. But I'd be alright if at least "summoning" was an option.
Portal 2 has very restricted areas which makes it easy. I assume BotW2 will have the same giant open world structure which would cause problems. It would have to be coded like Borderlands or Wildlands (pick your open world co-op game). Can the Switch handle something like that? I'm dubious, but I'd love to see them try anyway.
Yeah! I was already revising the piece when you put up the thread, which was perfect. It makes sense to me that we would be on a wavelength since Zelda's character in BotW is so invested in Hyrule's history. Thematically, I think Zelda's character works better for themes of exploration than Link's, since she has more of an interest and is less beholden to heroic narrative. Like you said, it's about connecting with a character who takes an active interest in the world around them.
I'm personally hoping for her to be the sole protagonist. It's long overdue, and I want to see her properly star in her own story. I realize that Aonuma and Nintendo would be apprehensive of that idea though, and I don't expect them to make that jump immediately. I think the most likely outcomes are either that you pick Zelda or Link at the start of the story, or that you switch between them throughout the game in a more cooperative fashion. I'd prefer the latter over the former, as I feel it would give both Zelda and Link more room to grow as their own characters vs. throwing them into the same mold. Playable Zelda as the sole protagonist of a mainline Zelda game is definitely the endgame though, and I hope we'll see it happen one day.
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Seriously? Borderlands has 3 games on last gen consoles and the Switch is comfortably more powerful then a WiiU...
Also LEGO City Undercover exists
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What would Co Op Zelda look like?
We have already seen that with games like 4 swords adventures, tri force heroes and to a lesser extent Hyrule Warriors.
In gameplay we have seen dungeons like in Wind Waker with Link and Medli ect
I'd assume Single player works like any game with an AI controlled party. Multiplayer has a user with another switch select a party member an join in
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Yes, seriously. The Switch can have trouble with just Link on the screen. I was really hoping they were going to release a more powerful one - even if it was only slightly better.
Gaming consoles by their nature obviously have a finite amount of computational resources, and to that degree saying that more power would be appreciated is always going to be true.
However a finite pool of resources doesn't mean most things that have been done in the past with lesser resources cant be done, it just means developers have to make hard choices about what uses up those finite resources
Hey, I want to see co-op as much as anyone. I just think it won't take place in a BotW sized world. Maybe the next game takes place under Hyrule and on the floating(?) castle.
I feel like technical requirements/hardware limitations for something like Co-op are of a lot less concern and impediment than the design limitations and issues for implementing co-op, or even a decent AI partner, into a game like BotW. There's some pretty massive hurdles they'd have to overcome and solve for unless they were OK with some serious compromises to the experience in order to implement it. You can't just toss in a second player in that kind of game without outright breaking or at least seriously compromising a lot of things and/or needing to dramatically change your design approach and/or implement a lot of artificial elements to contain it.
Personally I don't think this is happening. In the short teaser we see Zelda riding passively the beast while Link in on foot and armed. We see Zelda looking scared. We see Zelda falling down and Link catching her. We see Link being directly involved with the blue stuff that seems central to the game. None of those things indicate a more capable or playable Zelda. The only thing that gives hope is the haircut really. The rest of the teaser pretty much works against it.