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The leap from KH2's level design to KH3's level design is probably the biggest level design leap possible.

ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

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Oct 26, 2017
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KH2's level design was so painfully bad that it really hurt the game. I will summarize KH2's level design for you now.

-5 meters by 5 meters sized room with nothing hidden in it, no personality, no people, completely barren.
-Loading screen
-Another barren, tiny room with nothing in it and no personality.
-Repeat a few times until the level is over.

And then you get to KH3 which is bursting with goodies, great art, super cute things to take pictures of, people, hidden stuff, geometry that looks like a real place instead of an empty box... KH3 may have some balance issues compared to 2, but the level design is such a gigantic step up that KH3 is a massively better game to me.

KH3 actually feels like you're exploring Disney worlds and having fun in them, KH2 felt like a bunch of connected boxes that were empty.
 
AxeVince

AxeVince

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Oct 26, 2017
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I hope in 13years they learned something yeah. (also, there is literally a dozen games between the two)
 
Rodjer

Rodjer

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After 14 years and 2 gens since the last ""mainline"" KH a big leap is expected, there's nothing surprising.
 
takriel

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Skyward Sword -> Breath of the Wild is also great
 
Berordn

Berordn

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For what it's worth, 3 feels like an evolution of DDD's level design but with less of the "disconnected boxes."

But it also helps that flowmotion isn't as absurd in 3 as it was in DDD so you actually have to traverse them properly.
 
s y

s y

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Nov 8, 2017
10,427
KH2's worlds were dogshit even at the time of release but yeah, I'm enjoying the much improved, larger worlds. Toy Story and Olympus were really, really well done.
 
THE GUY

THE GUY

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Oct 27, 2017
4,223
The level design in Kingdom Hearts has genuinely been crap-tier since the beginning. It was one of the worst aspects of the series, so the improvement with KH3 was expected and welcome. So many Disney worlds were basically ruined in Kingdom Hearts 2 especially. I'm hoping The Lion King and Mulan, at least, get a do over in Kingdom Hearts 4 or something.
 
AztecComplex

AztecComplex

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Oct 25, 2017
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You lost half of Era by using "meters" in a sentence involving measurement, OP!

In all seriousness I can't wait to sink my teeth on this game.
 
OP
OP
ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

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Oct 26, 2017
20,440
bigol said:
Of course it is, i mean, it's from Ps2 to Ps4.
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KH2's level design was fucking terrible for a PS2 game though and KH3's level design is great for a PS4 game. KH3 has way more environmental interaction and natural geometry and multi-level geometry and cool hidden stuff than like God of War or Horizon.
 
FantasticMrFoxdie

FantasticMrFoxdie

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Oct 26, 2017
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Mushroom Kingdom
lol yeah

its been over a decade, they BETTER have something to show for.

One of my friends watching me play yesterday brought up a good point that the game is severely lacking of. It does not hold up to modern gaming cutscenes and storytelling. It still has a very weird pace to the scenes, animations, and VA.
 
TheBeardedOne

TheBeardedOne

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Derry
It has been a while, though. Things have improved.

I'm glad to hear that, though, because what I played of KH2 didn't do much for me.
 
OP
OP
ItWasMeantToBe19

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
FantasticMrFoxdie said:
lol yeah

its been over a decade, they BETTER have something to show for.

One of my friends watching me play yesterday brought up a good point that the game is severely lacking of. It does not hold up to modern gaming cutscenes and storytelling. It still has a very weird pace to the scenes, animations, and VA.
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Oh the cutscenes are terrible, but KH2's cutscenes were also terrible for the PS2 and KH3's cutscenes are at least better than 2's.
 
Massicot

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I think even factoring in the two-gen difference and interim titles that the OP's point is still generally true. KH2's world design was super bad even back in 2005 standards, and the portable games can't really be judged super fairly with additional portable limitations. I'm really enjoying the populated worlds of 3 in Port Royal, Twilight Town, and Corona.
 
Masterspeed

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Oct 25, 2017
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I haven't played KH3, but I agree. Play the Tanker level in MGS2 and be in awe at all the detail. There's so much variety in such a small ship and yet KH2's worlds were mostly baron. So much blank slate rooms with nothing in them. It wasn't a power problem, it was totally a design problem when you think of MGS2.

I'm really excited to play KH3 soon, I've been waiting for it for years.
 
Berordn

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Weiss said:
BBS and DDD showed they really didn't learn anything when it came to integrating more explorative map design.
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BBS largely followed in the footsteps of 2 with the exception of some (sadly, optional) areas like Disney Town. But DDD I'll actually defend, Country of the Musketeers, La Cité des Cloches and even The Grid have very interactive locations that actually push you to using your platforming to traverse and find a ton of off the path secrets, not unlike 3 does.

...but of course, Flowmotion tends to negate that. Still, a step in the right direction.
 
DarkSora

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Kinsei said:
Peter Pan too.

i really hope they consider going back to some worlds they've already done in future games like they did with Hercules and Pirates in KH3.
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I lol'd when I saw "Neverland" pop up as the world's name in KH1. It was literally JUST a pirate ship. Had no idea why they called it "Neverland".
 
Neiteio

Neiteio

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Oct 25, 2017
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5 meters by 5 meters?

I'm American, what does that translate to in guns, barbecues and freedom
 
Haribo

Haribo

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Oct 27, 2017
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
-And then you get to KH3.
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sigh. We're really going to act like this is how it all went down huh OP? I mean you can be a Kingdom Hearts fan and still have a decent grip on reality.. You can stop using your heart as your guiding key when it comes to us. There's like 3 games that came out on a pretty regular basis after KH2 and the level design in KH3, a PLAYSTATION FOUR game, is not beyond the realm of average.

shoutout to Persona 5 which manages to actually do what you describe, in addition to not FUMBLING its storytelling, whilst sharing a similar timeline.
 
entremet

entremet

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Don't forget the more wide angle view. Makes things much easier to see.

BBS difficulty in Critical Mode came from the fact that you were fighting the narrow field of view lol.
 
StarCreator

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Oct 25, 2017
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Not enough people saying that KH2 was a downgrade even from KH1 in world design, so I'm here to say it again. Beating KH2 is not a high bar.
 

Deleted member 864

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I love the larger and just more dense worlds, I thought Galaxy Toys in Toy Story was particularly impressive.
 
Papercuts

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KH2 worlds were lame even for the time. 3 is the first time the disney worlds are where they should be it seems so that's good to see. Cutscenes are still...

I do think Persona 5 is a huuuuge leap over the previous games too considering how much more structured the dungeons were.
 
Sub Boss

Sub Boss

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Nov 14, 2017
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Yeah KH2 level design was pretty bad, but still it had very limiting hardware when compared to KH3 so its somewhat justified , also less experience from the team.
It was until KH3D they started expanding the levels
 
MsMuerta

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Nov 8, 2017
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I've seen some people saying that worlds in KH2 were more open than in this... and I am like, WHERE. Because KH2 is mostly squared/rectangular rooms that could be exchanged with each other and the only way to tell them apart is the Disney dressing.

KH1 has some interesting platforming going on but I feel like some levels are a bit confusing like Agrabah and Deep Jungle. Was there a minimap? I replayed it not too far ago and I didn't see one.
 

Deleted member 33533

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
I would say that games such as BBS and DDD bridged the gap so I don't think it's strictly a leap from 2 to 3. Still, definitely a high point for the series.
 
MsMuerta

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DDD would have been much better if they had restricted Flowmotion to work like it does in KH3. But nope, infinite jumps it is
 
Tagg

Tagg

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Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2 level design is just downright bad. Claustrophobic areas, forced platforming (Tarzan!), and environments that are just completely devoid of life. Going back to the first 2 games in the PS4 collection almost destroyed my nostalgia.
 
Cantaim

Cantaim

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Oct 25, 2017
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The Stussining
It's gonna be hard to replay previous KH games after playing 3. Think the only game that would hold up as well from a exploration/level design perspective is Dream Drop Distance. Since it tries very hard to get some good exploration and attempts at interaction with the flowmotion system. Every other game in this series pales in comparison to KH3 and what it does with its worlds.

Also to those who are trying to gotcha OP by saying "well yeah it is a ps2 game". Nah fam there are dozens and dozens of ps2 games that beat the shit outta KH2. In terms of map design and interaction.
 
Noema

Noema

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It certainly helps that current gen consoles have 25600% more RAM than the PS2, but then again games like the GTAs, Bully and Shadow of the Colossus performed miracles on that hardware.
 
Sub Boss

Sub Boss

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FantasticMrFoxdie said:
lol yeah

its been over a decade, they BETTER have something to show for.

One of my friends watching me play yesterday brought up a good point that the game is severely lacking of. It does not hold up to modern gaming cutscenes and storytelling. It still has a very weird pace to the scenes, animations, and VA.
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While this is true its still a very big jump from the other games in the series imo, the Tangled world was really well done, as are most Disney /PIXAR worlds.they really worked on getting that Disney feel in the game, the original cutscenes/characters suffer much more
 
ClickyCal'

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takriel said:
Skyward Sword -> Breath of the Wild is also great
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source.gif
 
Kaguya

Kaguya

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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
KH2's level design was so painfully bad that it really hurt the game. I will summarize KH2's level design for you now.

-5 meters by 5 meters sized room with nothing hidden in it, no personality, no people, completely barren.
-Loading screen
-Another barren, tiny room with nothing in it and no personality.
-Repeat a few times until the level is over.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hmm... I haven played KH2 since it came out, but was it really like that? I remember a lot of open areas!
 
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