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-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613
The award is given on the merits of the game. Not on what gets the most people riled up, or is considered "risky".

Let's stop trying to diminish the amazing work by the ND team. Completely deserved.
 

Windrunner

Sly
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,619
Should have been Animal Crossing, not just for the game itself but also for genre and audience diversity. They could have shown that they are capable of looking beyond the bubble of 20+/30+ men who love 3rd person narrative killing games but of course they aren''t because these are the same types of people who go into games journalism and decide these awards.

This is among the worst takes in this topic. Well done.

TLOU2 is a game centred on women and LGBT people and was a delight for it.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,348
FL, United States
Don't listen to this person lol, the game is incredibly scary in parts. Hell, I found it considerably scarier than RE2 Remake, because unlike in RE2, all the enemies in TLOU2 can run, and are generally far more capable and imposing than your average run of the mill brain dead slow walking zombie.

If you play on harder difficulties, resources are just as scarce too, making things even more tense.
Really? The clickers were tense at best, but I wouldn't put it on par with RE7 or any dedicated horror game. I can't even play through PT or Fatal Frame and TLOU2 didn't even bother me.

Okay, maaaybe that one scene by the tool bench got me. I knew it was going to happen, but hearing those running footsteps from behind...
 

goldblum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
128
London
I love Hades but this was a deserved win.

What it did with narrative structure, performances, accessiiblty options, attention to detail, graphics, are almost unmatched. No other game stayed with me for as long after either.
 

Sign

Member
Oct 31, 2017
427
Really? The clickers were tense at best, but I wouldn't put it on par with RE7 or any dedicated horror game. I can't even play through PT or Fatal Frame and TLOU2 didn't even bother me.

Okay, maaaybe that one scene by the tool bench got me. I knew it was going to happen, but hearing those running footsteps from behind...

The revamped Stalkers in this game are more than enough for people to consider it scary in my opinion.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,207
Really? The clickers were tense at best, but I wouldn't put it on par with RE7 or any dedicated horror game. I can't even play through PT or Fatal Frame and TLOU2 didn't even bother me.

Okay, maaaybe that one scene by the tool bench got me. I knew it was going to happen, but hearing those running footsteps from behind...
Say the Stalkers can definitely scare the shit out of you, especially the fuckers who hide in the wall crust, without fail they'd get me. But even the ones who just watch and well stalk you until you get in a fight are creepy.
 

Aldro

Member
Jun 5, 2020
886
Sweden
fPsfb1I.jpg

When Sony/ND??
I need this but with more 10s and # of goty awards listed too
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
i appreciate the experimentation in TLOU2 but it did not resonate with me personally like most naughty dog games. as i said i'd be more interested in a game where they get rid of the shooting stuff and lean more into the animation and character-focus elements that they clearly want the focus on
Well whatever the next new IP will be, it will be different. Probably will still be a tps in some form, but maybe completely different to what they have done. If it's something like Noire maybe, the action wouldn't be as straight forward.

Of course they could still probably also do Part III after though too.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,348
FL, United States
Say the Stalkers can definitely scare the shit out of you, especially the fuckers who hide in the wall crust, without fail they'd get me. But even the ones who just watch and well stalk you until you get in a fight are creepy.
I guess I'm in the minority here. I'll admit there are some jump scares, but as someone who can't take jump scares, I found the LoU series much more tolerable. That being said, beating a stalker to death after they jump out is so much more satisfying this time around.
 

psynergyadept

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,794
Idk how they were able to use the character models like this but it's amazing Lmao



LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! The baby fucking killed me!!!!

ND should create side hustle of selling the salt their games create. It's one goty award folks, many awards will be given out to the other nominees and games that weren't chosen for the VGA's
 

Risky_Bigness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
148
USA
From start to finish, TLOU2 took me through a gamut of emotions while I played it. Fury on one end and a sobbing mess on the other. No other game has done that to me. It's a well deserved win.
 

Sign

Member
Oct 31, 2017
427
I guess I'm in the minority here. I'll admit there are some jump scares, but as someone who can't take jump scares, I found the LoU series much more tolerable. That being said, beating a stalker to death after they jump out is so much more satisfying this time around.

Sorry didn't mean to be part of a mini-dogpile on you, I didn't see nib95 responded already when I posted. I can see your point, especially if that is how the game affected you. I also found it more tense than anything but I know some people who almost noped out of the game during the stalker sections so I thought it was a fair warning for people if they are concerned about scares. I 100% agree with you on it being satisfying to take them out when you catch them trying to sneak up on you though. This game probably had the most individual moments of catharsis I have ever experienced in a game.
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
From start to finish, TLOU2 took me through a gamut of emotions while I played it. Fury on one end and a sobbing mess on the other. No other game has done that to me. It's a well deserved win.

Yeah, I just beat it this morning and have to agree, a game had never done what this one did to me emotionally, went from 100% being behind a character and what they were doing to flipping around completely by the end. Just a masterful experience, not my favorite game of all time but hands down the best all around game I've ever played.

Would have been fine with Hades winning but TLOU2 is a deserving victor
 

benhan

Member
Oct 30, 2017
263
Really? The clickers were tense at best, but I wouldn't put it on par with RE7 or any dedicated horror game. I can't even play through PT or Fatal Frame and TLOU2 didn't even bother me.

Okay, maaaybe that one scene by the tool bench got me. I knew it was going to happen, but hearing those running footsteps from behind...
What difficulty did you play with?
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,269
This was my choice but I was shocked to see it win, Hades seemed like the favorite (and it would have been well deserved too imo). At the end of the day, I really just hope to see more women and queer people leading games and if this helps make it so then it's a good win.
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,038
Honestly, is anyone surprised the AAA third person hyper-violent shooter with a cinematic approach won GOTY on the Game Awards?
As I said before, TLoU2 is as safe as it can. The game was designed to appeal to gamers.

Hades would have been a ballsy choice.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,269
Honestly, is anyone surprised the AAA third person hyper-violent shooter with a cinematic approach won GOTY on the Game Awards?
As I said before, TLoU2 is as safe as it can. The game was designed to appeal to gamers.

Hades would have been a ballsy choice.
LOL I just replied, at the same time as you but yeah kinda? Obviously it was well-received overall and made with very high quality but there also a lot of people who didn't like the story and/or the game's approach to violence while Hades seems to have been pretty universally liked across the board. I haven't really heard anyone disliking it.
 

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,356
Also, haters can close the door and cry in the corner lol

I find posts like this interesting.

If my personal GOTY were recognized (it won't), I simply couldn't imagine flaunting quips like,

- "You mad, bro?"

- "Those tears!"

- "Dat salt!"

So strange and unsavory.

But I guess when you wrap your identity up with consumer products it's all knives out when their your "honor" is on the line.

Anyway, congrats to ND. Really impressive production.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,381
A perfectly reasonable selection. Even if one wouldn't have picked it as the winner, one has to recognize that it was not an unreasonable pick.

Some of yall need to chill.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,328
LOL I just replied, at the same time as you but yeah kinda? Obviously it was well-received overall and made with very high quality but there also a lot of people who didn't like the story and/or the game's approach to violence while Hades seems to have been pretty universally liked across the board. I haven't really heard anyone disliking it.

You gotta remember that Hades, despite being universally well-loved, is still a relatively light-hearted roguelite indie game. That's an automatic mitigating factor on its popularity when it comes to 'the Oscars' of gaming, in the same way being animated and/or comedic is a negative for the actual Oscars.

Meanwhile TLoU:P2 is a sequel to The Last of Us with better gameplay to boot. It definitely makes some daring choices in its story but, as has been made incredibly clear, those choices were more 'Gamer'-unfriendly than they were 'Critic'-unfriendly. So it winning this award when its primary competition was relatively... OK in comparison (FFVIIR, GoT and Doom Eternal never had a chance) just isn't surprising to me.

Honestly I'll eat my hat if a true indie game ever wins GOTY at this awards show. That's not 'salty' or anything (because honestly Hades isn't my GOTY at all), it's just the truth lol
 
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mcruz79

Member
Apr 28, 2020
2,818
Well a lot of people do find it impressive even more so if we talking about TLOU2.
That also go for the AI , level design , etc etc which all part of game play .
Yes.
I am one of them...
for exemple, comparing to other game that has a lot of praise in gameplay and to be fair one game that I like a lot to.
Gears of war.
Gears has cool gunplay but in general I think it doesn't compare with TLoU2.
The impact of the animations, audio design, enemies feedback, IA, the variety in how you can handle one specific section of the game, the level design and variety of the encounters, the urgency that you do things, specially the real time inventory and crafting system. even one thing that I always though ND was lacking that are boss fights it does improved a lot and the ones in the game are extremely well designed and so much fun to play, specially in the highest difficulty.
Man, the cinematography and storytelling in TLoU2 is absolute unmatched in a way that is not even funny but there's just so much more in the game than this in my opinion.
The gameplay aspects of this game is phenomenal and is incredible tied with the purpose in my opinion.
Its really a masterpiece.
 

JasoNsider

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,178
Canada
(Difficult to speak of the game without at least hinting at some of the spoilery stuff within, but here we are... I'm skirting around individual events, but maybe don't read further if you are still going in fresh)

From where I'm sitting, I still think TLoU2 is one of the riskier directions I've ever seen in a AAA game. That fact that it was this risky of a story structure on top of one of the biggest, most expensive productions ever is incredible. We know Naughty Dog and its writers can tell a popcorn flick better than even Hollywood itself (as in Uncharted). What they taught us with TLoU:P2 is they have guts to tell stories that challenge us and stop and reflect on what it is to be human.

I'm not saying it's some kind of flawless masterpiece of fiction, but I really did reflect a lot while going through this story. I am always willing to meet a storyteller in the middle if they are putting in the work and earning their stance. The middle of the game shook me for a minute, as I think it did for many others. It tested me past just beating levels and filling meters.

I cried to my partner at the end. We both talked about the story and felt that it is a story about many themes, but mostly about what people will do for love. And it feels earned, as the best works of our generations do.

I could honestly just stop there for reasons I feel this game is triumph, and I've not even touched on literally every other element about the game, which are all pretty much Best In Class. At its core, its stories and world are so compelling and themes so strong that you can very easily forget that it's also best playing, best sounding, and best looking game as well. Not to mention, providing the new high water mark for accessibility, providing an example to all who follow.
 
Last edited:

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,374
I find posts like this interesting.

If my personal GOTY were recognized (it won't), I simply couldn't imagine flaunting quips like,

- "You mad, bro?"

- "Those tears!"

- "Dat salt!"

So strange and unsavory.

But I guess when you wrap your identity up with consumer products it's all knives out when their your "honor" is on the line.

Anyway, congrats to ND. Really impressive production.
Considering some of the most vocal haters are pieces of garbage, I don't mind one bit.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,269
You gotta remember that Hades, despite being universally well-loved, is still a relatively light-hearted roguelite indie game. That's an automatic mitigating factor on its popularity when it comes to 'the Oscars' of gaming, in the same way being animated and/or comedic is a negative for the actual Oscars.

Meanwhile TLoU:P2 is a sequel to The Last of Us with better gameplay to boot. It definitely makes some daring choices in its story but, as has been made incredibly clear, those choices were more 'Gamer'-unfriendly than they were 'Critic'-unfriendly. So it winning this award when its primary competition was relatively... OK in comparison (FFVIIR, GoT and Doom Eternal never had a chance) just isn't surprising to me.

Honestly I'll eat my hat if a true indie game ever wins GOTY at this awards show. That's not 'salty' or anything (because honestly Hades isn't my GOTY at all), it's just the truth lol
True but didn't Overwatch win GOTY back whenever it came out? And BOTW? Like I totally get what you're saying and I don't disagree that the set up was there for TLOU2 to take it but I do feel like TGA has gone for "lighter and more colorful" games in the past. Just not indie games.
 

benhan

Member
Oct 30, 2017
263
(Difficult to speak of the game without at least hinting at some of the spoilery stuff within, but here we are... I'm skirting around individual events, but maybe don't read further if you are still going in fresh)

From where I'm sitting, I still think TLoU2 is one of the riskier directions I've ever seen in a AAA game. That fact that it was this risky of a story structure on top of one of the biggest, most expensive productions ever is incredible. We know Naughty Dog and its writers can tell a popcorn flick better than even Hollywood itself (as in Uncharted). What they taught us with TLoU:P2 is they have guts to tell stories that challenge us and stop and reflect on what it is to be human.

I'm not saying it's some kind of flawless masterpiece of fiction, but I really did reflect a lot while going through this story. I am always willing to meet a storyteller in the middle if they are putting in the work and earning their stance. The middle of the game shook me for a minute, as I think it did for many others. It tested me past just beating levels and filling meters.

I cried to my partner at the end. We both talked about the story and felt that it is a story about many themes, but mostly about what people will do for love. And it feels earned, as the best works of our generations do.

I could honestly just stop there for reasons I feel this game is triumph, and I've not even touched on literally every other element about the game, which are all pretty much Best In Class. At its core, it's stories and world are so compelling and themes so strong that you can very easily forget that it's also best playing, best sounding, and best looking game as well. Not to mention, providing the new high water mark for accessibility, providing an example to all who follow.
This. Instead of continuing with more of the same structure as it's prequel, ND chose the riskier path with TLOU2. They even considered open world with hub originally.
And their choice paid off big time.

This is not your usual GOTY. It will be remembered for a very long time and set a new benchmark in story telling, animation, and voice acting + mocap performance.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
You gotta remember that Hades, despite being universally well-loved, is still a relatively light-hearted roguelite indie game. That's an automatic mitigating factor on its popularity when it comes to 'the Oscars' of gaming, in the same way being animated and/or comedic is a negative for the actual Oscars.

Meanwhile TLoU:P2 is a sequel to The Last of Us with better gameplay to boot. It definitely makes some daring choices in its story but, as has been made incredibly clear, those choices were more 'Gamer'-unfriendly than they were 'Critic'-unfriendly. So it winning this award when its primary competition was relatively... OK in comparison (FFVIIR, GoT and Doom Eternal never had a chance) just isn't surprising to me.

Honestly I'll eat my hat if a true indie game ever wins GOTY at this awards show. That's not 'salty' or anything (because honestly Hades isn't my GOTY at all), it's just the truth lol
If Hades came out last year, I think it would have won. Less tough competition and Sekiro wasn't held as high overall.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
True but didn't Overwatch win GOTY back whenever it came out? And BOTW? Like I totally get what you're saying and I don't disagree that the set up was there for TLOU2 to take it but I do feel like TGA has gone for "lighter and more colorful" games in the past. Just not indie games.
Yea, Overwatch beat Uncharted 4. And Sekiro won last year...beating Death Stranding, although that is different on the gameplay side.
 

jpbonadio

Member
Nov 8, 2017
895
I'm so happy that the best game won. TLoU 2 is a masterpiece. But the haters having huge meltdowns is the best part of this.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
(Difficult to speak of the game without at least hinting at some of the spoilery stuff within, but here we are... I'm skirting around individual events, but maybe don't read further if you are still going in fresh)

From where I'm sitting, I still think TLoU2 is one of the riskier directions I've ever seen in a AAA game. That fact that it was this risky of a story structure on top of one of the biggest, most expensive productions ever is incredible. We know Naughty Dog and its writers can tell a popcorn flick better than even Hollywood itself (as in Uncharted). What they taught us with TLoU:P2 is they have guts to tell stories that challenge us and stop and reflect on what it is to be human.

I'm not saying it's some kind of flawless masterpiece of fiction, but I really did reflect a lot while going through this story. I am always willing to meet a storyteller in the middle if they are putting in the work and earning their stance. The middle of the game shook me for a minute, as I think it did for many others. It tested me past just beating levels and filling meters.

I cried to my partner at the end. We both talked about the story and felt that it is a story about many themes, but mostly about what people will do for love. And it feels earned, as the best works of our generations do.

I could honestly just stop there for reasons I feel this game is triumph, and I've not even touched on literally every other element about the game, which are all pretty much Best In Class. At its core, it's stories and world are so compelling and themes so strong that you can very easily forget that it's also best playing, best sounding, and best looking game as well. Not to mention, providing the new high water mark for accessibility, providing an example to all who follow.
Great post, agree with all of that.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,328
True but didn't Overwatch win GOTY back whenever it came out? And BOTW? Like I totally get what you're saying and I don't disagree that the set up was there for TLOU2 to take it but I do feel like TGA has gone for "lighter and more colorful" games in the past. Just not indie games.

I'm not saying that certain things automatically cut a game's chance of winning down to 0, but there are certain factors that hamper it's chances. "Lighter and more colourful," is just one of them; being multiplayer-focused, or being indie, or having a more 'niche' game-loop (in this case Rogue-lite fast-paced action compared to linear stealth/shooting), etc.

Also note that I'm not trying to downplay TLoU:P2's win, it's well-deserved in every way and I'd 100% rate it as my GOTY from that list; I just find this notion that it was some underdog at this awards show as being a bit ridiculous; it was always the front-runner. Ya'll can be pleased with the game winning without it ticking literally every single box in the 'success story' criteria list lol.

I also don't really think the game's story was that risky in the end (not going the obvious route =/= inherently risky to me) but, hey, that's just my opinion.
If Hades came out last year, I think it would have won. Less tough competition and Sekiro wasn't held as high overall.

That's why it's so rare that indie games win these things; they have to be released in years where there isn't a clear front-runner AAA title, whilst being universally-beloved and incredibly-popular themselves, to even have a chance.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,964
That's why it's so rare that indie games win these things; they have to be released in years where there isn't a clear front-runner AAA title, whilst being universally-beloved and incredibly-popular themselves, to even have a chance.
Well there are more and more indies getting to that level, and AAA games are taking longer to make. I think it will happen at some point. There will be another one like Hades or maybe even more critically praised and a lesser year for other games. When it does happen, it will be a really big moment for indies.
 

IAMtheFMan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,030
Chicago
That's great. It's unsurprising really, and I think it is very well deserved. The story-telling and impact of the story and boldness in its characters are just completely aspirational, not to mention the attention to detail: I can't tell you how many times I would hold onto those ropes or run under trickling water just to see the effects change. This being said, my personal GOTY was and still is Animal Crossing. I'm sure others have put it more succinctly, but yes, the perfect game for the perfect year. In non-pandemic years, AC wouldn't have been in serious contention for my GOTY. TLOU2 would've easily won. But I guess it's how much you want to look at games in a vacuum.

I'm a healthcare worker. I had to abruptly leave my wife, son and baby on a Sunday in late March, and basically had to hole up in an unfurnished box for 2 1/2 months, with an air mattress, a wooden chair and foldaway desk and a TV I bought from Target on my way there. This was obviously a time when we didn't know much about COVID, but I was scared shitless and going on the "front lines" of the pandemic just was a horrible feeling. I mean, I wrote letters to my family for my kids to read when they were older in the case that I contracted it and died. When AC came out... it was the therapeutic release I needed. Normalcy, routine, objectives and goals to build to... all of it was just familiar and at least took the bite off of what I was doing in my real life. When shrubs came to be a thing, it was like one of the best days ever because it was exactly the aesthetic I was looking for my village.

When I played TLOU 2, it captured me immediately and told an incredible story, definitely one of the best in the medium. It asked a lot of hard questions with and without answers, some of which I think Era loses sight of (things like nuance and firm, snap emotional judgments, but I digress) and will almost certainly have an impact on the discourse of the medium for years to come. Again, I'm not surprised it won, and this isn't IAmtheFMan's GOTY awards, but for me the sheer impact that AC made on my year just can't compare. Of course, without a pandemic there's no way it would've made anywhere near the same mark, but I won't ever be able to uncouple this year with AC.