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The Last of Us Part II - Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter vestan
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i think this says more then anything that a lot of shit from the first game is gonna make a lot in the second make even more sense. Joel killing people without thinking of the consequences? His act of killing comes to bite him in the ass. Ellie's line about being more scarred without joel? Ellie has a full breakdown because Joel is gone. Like I really feel this game & the first are 100% gonna complement each other perfectly.
There's the video with jessie driving and the clicker on the hood, they crash into a river and I assume it leads to you swimming to the other side to get jessie out. Also there's sections with a motorboat!
Like I said in the quote - Abby spares her because Lev told her to.
Abby incapacitated Dinah, incapacitated Ellie, specifically brought up Dinah to face Ellie when she is gonna slit her throat, Ellie tells her not to do it because Dinah is pregnant, to which Abby says 'Good', and is about to start slicing, when Lev says 'Abby...', which finally gets her to stop.
Abby isn't at all pure in any sense of the word. No character in this world can be. She's a bloodthirsty murderer. Anyone thinking that there is some form of sympathetic angle to Abby is simply fooling themselves. Its part of why I refuse to buy the game & play it.
Punished Joel "A Fallen Dad"
This is gonna be a sad convo.
A reminder that not a single person dies heroically or altrustically in the firs game. Death is always brutal, unexpected, and sudden. Giving Joel of all people a death like that would fly in the face of the first game's intentions.
^
I think people are really gonna have coming to terms with this idea in particular. It's easy to hate David and thus ignore the parts where he talks about how you've personally killed his friends. Because fuck em, they're cannibals. Fuck David in particular, because even his friends are talking about holding a town meeting to determine whether or not his should stay as their leader. Abby doesn't seem to be over the top in anyway. She's just a person with differing goals than people we consider to be the protagonists.
How do we know she did not decide out of the blue to act like this and I do feel there is a lot of the story we are missing here.
Tbf, I don't believe Abby is pure but I can't say I blame her for acting in self defense as both are actively trying to kill her. Also gotta remember she's probably traumatized as well from what she experienced having lost her family and the Fireflies so her sense of "its me or them" is probably high.
I look at it as a Sasuke and Itachi situation with Abby being Sasuke and Joel being Itachi. Kinda...lol
Were you able to sympathise with Joel's actions at the end of the first game?
Thats a terrible way to look at it cause Sasuke is absolutely horrible, especially after it was explained to him what exactly his brother did for him, and how he basically tosses that out the window for his own pursuit of revenge, while still claiming it was for his brother.
As for Abby - self-defense stops the moment she incapacitates both of them, which she successfully does. Ellie's arm is broken and is no longer fighting back, Dinah is likely unconscious from her head bashing. The throat slicing is purely for her own selfish reasons, and on a pregnant woman in that world? Not a great look.
I actually LOVE the idea that Joel dies at the hand of the doctor's daughter. I think it's the most logical story progression from the first game. Also do you guys remember that Joel himself admitted to murder numerous amount of innocent people before he met Ellie? So i guess in a way Karma comes back and bit him in the ass 🤷♂️
I meant Part 1 Sauce before he learned about what happened with his brother. To Abby, Joel ruined everything she cared about so I understand her anger towards him.
I think the reason Abby wants them both dead is simply because she is afraid that if she lets them live, they'll come after the people she cares about including herself.
Joel was actually justified in what he did at the end of TLoU - i've written about it at length in here, but in case you need a summary:
- Fireflies had no idea if they'd ever be able to derive a cure and were under no strict timetable as to why they needed to kill Ellie then and there; there was plenty of time to explore other options.
- In the real world, there is not a single fungal infection vaccine that exists; the idea that the Fireflies with their limited supplies would've pulled it off is laughable.
- The Fireflies beat Joel and threaten to kill him when he asks to simply see Ellie; they neglected to get Ellie's consent to the procedure whatsoever, and whats worse is that she would've actually given it to them! All the Fireflies had to do was wait a few hours/days for Ellie to regain consciousness from her drowning and Joel would've had the peace of mind to let her go and they would've gotten the go ahead to proceed without issue.
- Joel was absolutely right in that they would've continued to pursue Ellie if he let a few of them/Marlene go. They went after him simply for the massacre - if they had known what Ellie was, they would've kept going.
The Fireflies, who we are told throughout the game were actually acting as a terrorist organization (attacking the few remaining quarantine zones at times), aren't the innocent/good guys in all this. The point of the series, to an extent, is that no one this world is.
So um? Y'all know the theater ambush us the result of Ellie running around killing abby's friends like she's fucking arya stark right? Yeah, it's fucked up she's willing to kill a pregnant lady, but we have no idea of the extent of Ellie killing Abby's friends! Like the most we have is one clip of Ellie brutally asking i believe it's Owen? Where Abby is. What Abby does is horrible, but we have no clue as to what horrible acts Ellie committed against people abby cares about. The entire point of playing as Abby is to show perspective.
let me put this way: the whole entire point of thus game is the cycle of violence & how it effects Elli's soul. How do you accomplish that? How do you paint a character going down a dark road & make you the player feel that? By giving names & faces to the people she's going after. If the game just stopped at seeing Abby & the great value savior clan then these characters would come just come off as just some bosses we have to take down & we wouldn't think much of it, but by playing as Abby & seeing how the savior clan act outside of that, it creates meaning to Ellie's killing. No longer are they just bosses. They feel like real people that are being killed by another real person. It adds a lot of weight to Ellie's killing & it makes her arc down a dark road much more believable. Just a thought.
Yeah. Some people take issue with that it seems forced/hamfisted that it's the doctor's daughter. But it's not just her, it's an entire group of Fireflies. They just let her do the finishing blow, which makes sense.
I honestly have no clue if that's true... but from what I gather is some company that was supposedly hired by sony to get the leaks taken down, is copyrighting people who are talking about them & the new conspiracy is that the company is a shell company in order to hide its from Sony. It's a fucking mess.
Abby still wanting to kill Dina after she find out she pregnant is bad but in the heat of the moment you can do crazy things along with hate .
Are people forgetting that Ellie now come from killing all her friends and people she care about .
What make this worst is Abby was one of the people that said to let her go when they kill Joel .
That act of compassion came back and bit her hard and her mind set must have been crazy during that fight .
Are people forgetting that Ellie now come from killing all her friends and people she care about .
What make this worst is Abby was one of the people that said to let her go when they kill Joel .
That act of compassion came back and bit her hard and her mind set must have been crazy during that fight .
Wait so fireflies are coming back? Yes!!! Oh i think I'm gonna love this game, I'm loving all these dramas lmao
Yo wut LMAO
Why in the world would Sony do that. How would they even hire a company like that so quickly. Holy fuck thats crazy
Because the first I heard of it is when Joe tweeted it out...before his video went up. And his video is still there btw which if Sony is taking down vids discussing spoilers, wouldn't it be smart to go after big channels like his with a huge following? Lol
I don't know, but I know a video I watched with a guy accusing the ceo of something because he had his name in his twitter bio. I can't believe I used to listen to these people sometimes. Something is clearly wrong with a lot of them
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Oh now we got to the core issue you have with Abby. Your points against the Fireflies all stand, but if we're judging solely Joel's character, they are utterly irrelevant. He doesn't give a shit about the success rate of finding the cure, he doesn't care about how incompetent they are. The only thing he says to Marlene when she drops the bomb that Ellie must die for the cure to be found is that they find someone else. He doesn't question their practices or how little sense beginning the operation instantly makes because it doesn't even cross his mind. He is focused on one thing only: saving his surrogate daughter at all costs. If you're seriously trying to tell me that even if the game went out of its way to show that the operation would succeed that Joel wouldn't still do the same thing he did, I wonder if we played the same game.
The masterful side of Joel's characterization isn't about whether the Fireflies would succeed if they had the opportunity to go through with the operation; it's the chilling realization that he is willing to forgo a potential cure for humanity because he simply doesn't want to lose his daughter twice. He is a broken man whose humanity has been restored by his growing relationship with Ellie and that is about to be taken from him. The state of the Fireflies is irrelevant, the knowledge of the fact that he will prioritize saving Ellie over humanity and how that is masterfully built throughout the story is what makes him a fantastic character and boiling the ending down to "he did the right thing" or "he did the wrong thing" is a disservice to the writers.
It's a testament to the game's writing that a character who is shown throughout the story to have done terrible things in the past and who does something so objectionable in the end is still undeniably human and sympathetic and that's what makes Joel so compelling as a protagonist. For this reason, I'm more than hopeful that Abby will get the same treatment from the writers and I simply cannot fathom how people are so quick to deem her character as utterly evil when the first TLoU's forte was giving characters who are capable of heinous acts depth and compassion.
Idk if anyone else has seen the leaked video that goes along with this pic but Tommy asks for Ellie's help in finding Abby's group, which Ellie seems reluctant to do. I wonder if it's because Tommy tells Ellie what really happened at the hospital that night or does Tommy lie because he told Joel he'll take his secret to the grave.
I think that applies to every aspect of the game that's getting criticized. like one of the 4chan leaks calls Ellie the villain! Like I don't get it??? The last of us isn't some marvel movie with simple notions of bad guy vs. good guy. yes, we feel for Joel & what he goes through, but he does have flaws! Him dying is sad, but it makes sense... he made a Choice & it's coming back to haunt him...sucks, but that fits with the nature of the world. if we can feel for Joel, then I think it's only fair to be open to trying empathize with Abby as well.
Uh? that's not what I got from it...my impression was that Ellie was super gun ho about going after Abby & Tommy is trying to talk her out of it (seen in the story trailer) but Ellie says fuck that & Tommy eventually agrees & is asking Ellie to give him some time to get a group together to go to Seattle, but then he ends up going on his own (most likely to spare Ellie from doing it herself) & This causes Maria to locked down the stables & thus will make getting Seattle Harder, as pointed out by Dina. the set up is basically: Ellie wants to go to Seattle to get revenge, Tommy tries to talk her out of it & instead goes himself to spare Ellie the burden, but Ellie says fuck that & ends up going anyway, which leads to Jessie following them & all three set up in a theater & Ellie tries to find members of abby's group, while also trying to track down Tommy who is doing the same.
I took this video as Tommy trying to convince Ellie to go in a group instead of going by herself to try to find Abby. Like he says he's trying to convince Maria to spare some of her men (I'm assuming for them to go along with Ellie).
Sidenote: thank god I screen recorded this scene when I saw it because I can't find it anywhere now
Yeah, I'm wondering when that is too. Could be after Joel dies.
Edit: beaten. But! joelsguitar https://twitter.com/leaksgamer1/status/1256411339557347328
Yes that's it! I saw it on youtube from a link someone posted earlier on in this thread, but it's been taken down since then.
If you listen closely to the song Ellie is listening to in the opening the timing of Joel walking into Ellie's room syncs up with her singing the song in the debut trailer as he's walking into the house.
I saw it and read it as he's hesitant and not gung ho like Ellie is, especially with the "What are you doing?" line in the trailer.
Thanks for posting, turns out my memory was off considering I only watched it once before it was deleted.
User Banned (permanent): Transphobia
This game is gonna be ttrash you can't justify Joel dying at the hands of Ma'am because he saved his second daughter from an organization that ADMITTED they don't know if they'll be able to make a cure.
Anyone here defending this will be known as a ND employee burner account.
Hey I saw one of hundreds of memes and I thought it was hysterical.
Not my problem that the community is bombing every Twitter post about the game. People are livid.
User Banned (Permanent): Transphobia
Problem isn't Joel dying. Problem is we are playing a LITERALLY WHO for second half of the game to kill first game's second protagonists, player MUST hate Joel or Ellie to play as Abby which tries to kill them . SJW trash Neil Druckma'am injected into game already makes me not wanna play it. But main issue belongs to Sony imo. They announce their games way before their initial release date for no reason. Half a decade ago this game announced and if those leaks weren't existed we would probably see it as a crossgen PS5 launch title lmao.
God damn, I know how many times it has so be said. WE DONT PLAY ABBY HALF OF THE GAME, probably just a few hours. Ellies chaptes are waaaaaay longer
Abby isn't even trans...even if she was, people getting upset about it and using it to spread transphobic nonsense is uncalled for.
Nor is it possible for anyone to say the story is shit yet.
I guess the quarantine is making them even more insufferable.
You have a stupid sense of humor.
I am amazed at the insane number of morons who get so up-in-arms about "muh video games" because a game dares to dabble in LGBTQIA+ issues or have strong female characters. Like, just fuck off you insecure manchildren.
Where are you getting that the game is SJW propaganda from? And the game was never planned as a PS5 launch game regardless of when they announced it
Oh I think we all know she isn't trans it's just people crapping on her because she seems like a poorly written character. All of the cutscenes o saw so far were her just yelling at people. Legitimately worse writing than the actual Incredible Hulk
We actually don't know this. The reddit leak, which is basically debunked, said Abby's portion would be a few hours at most and consist mostly of flashbacks at different points. However, that leak has been called into question.
The only thing we have to go on is the level list, and it very clearly points to us playing as her for a good portion. Heck, they went as far as making Ellie a boss battle from her perspective.
You're clearly a blinded simp because everyone is pissed off you have to watch Joel die by an NPC and then play as that same character for half of the game.
Imagine if Rafe killed Nate in Uncharted 4 and you have to play as Rafe for the second half to hunt down and kill Sam and Elena lol
No...people are mostly crapping on her because she's trans. And how can you say she's a poorly written character when we know very little of her.
I haven't watched the videos because I'm saving that for when I play the game to get full context. But based on what others have said, I get the impression that she isn't just yelling at everyone like you're insinuating
Sigh...another person misusing the word simp
Also the context of the Uncharted 4 world is entirely different from TLoU2 where killing someone is supposed to have more weight to it. Its not like Nate murdered Raffe's father and ruined his life lmao
Yea. I know. But people unfortunately ran with it and lot of other rumors.
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