You don't speak for the majority of the audience my dude. We were meant to hate and then empathize in some way with Negan. And that for the most part worked. Name a bigger death in the walking dead than Glenn.
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The Last of Us Part II - Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter vestan
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Where the fuck did I said I speak for the majority?
Please don't put words in my mouth, thanks.
User Banned (permanent): Troll account
So, they kill off Joel and we're forced to play as an angry feminist. Nice, this is gonna sell like hotcakes.
She is an angry feminist because she kills a man that killed her father?
Wut
What's with all these lamos with new accounts? Joel straight up got jumped by a group of people but because a woman landed the finishing blow people feel the need to act project incel energy. Joel was killed by a muscular women, get the fuck over it.
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Nope, cause her physique is bulky, and from Neil Druckman's remarks on how he's woke.
Don't get me wrong though! If anyone can make ideology into a decent storytelling piece, it's him.
This is exactly what's been missing for years whenever ideology has been shoehorned into movies, comics etc.
It's just that I have very little hope that it's gonna work, even here.
Why hello there
What's with all these lamos with new accounts?
He killed her fucking father but nice job boiling her down to an "angry feminist" lmao
Yea. This is exactly what I'm talking about. People think its pushing some sort of agenda
One of the most interesting things i found is that there's actually two different versions of Joel's killing. One with a focus on Ellie and one with a focus on Abby.
The one of Ellie also has no mention of the gangs names, only "Man" and "Woman". Abby's meanwhile has a focus on her, along with a flashback to her seeing her Dad. As well as her group's name. So im curious if that's going to play into the structure of the levels and game.
The one of Ellie also has no mention of the gangs names, only "Man" and "Woman". Abby's meanwhile has a focus on her, along with a flashback to her seeing her Dad. As well as her group's name. So im curious if that's going to play into the structure of the levels and game.
Why are you like this? How have you arrived at a point in your life where a muscular women=angry feminist?
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Did you watch the leaked video, because now I have and she is acting quite irrational with all the hate for Joel and not just kills him, but clearly wants to torture him to death instead. She would have continued if they had more time, she was stopped short and told to finish him off with a final blow, because they had to escape from that location. This is nowhere rational, sure Joel killed her dad, who threathened him with a scalpel, with a quick stab to the neck, which is probably the most humane way to kill someone in this insane universe.
A lot group was rather irrational truth be told since they also wanted to kill Ellie.
But yes a lot of times hate \ heat of the moment can make people do and say crazy things.
Yeah another thing actively going against people engaging with Abby is the BRUTAL way she kills Joel infront of Ellie.
I do still feel the story should either have been had it just been different characters in the same universe or Joel telling Ellie the truth and her coming to terms.
I do still feel the story should either have been had it just been different characters in the same universe or Joel telling Ellie the truth and her coming to terms.
You're asking a character to act rational when directly confronting somebody that murdered their friends and family. In the head of the moment, would you be calm and collected if given the chance to kill the person who killed someone that important to you? Genuine question. And this has little to do with interpreting the scene as "angry feminist" when she's quite literally avenging multiple men who Joel personally tortured and brutally killed.
I think the gameplay in this will be quite good, and the eventual MP should be fun.. but the story is going to suck and piss off most of the fanbase. I think Neil went off the deep end on this one.
I do know what she does and I'm not saying she is a good person. The moment she tortured Joel is where she fucked up.
What my issue with that post is saying she is an angry feminist simply because she killed Joel. That makes no sense.
Well, it clearly is though. Ellie is gay (I have no problem with that, they seem to tell a great story with it), but Joel, a super beloved character from the first game is killed off by this newly invented character with super muscular physique. Atleast she has a good reason behind it. But why does she have to be portrait as this woman tank? They don't portrait the other women like this. Ellie looks like a regular woman, same does Jesse. They're both strong and independent. Abby looks like a body builder. Why, is that really necessary to tell the story?
Considering all of this, and how Neil Druckman has been "inspired by Anita Sarkeesian". I mean come on. How is this Abby character not woke?
I feel like that's gonna be the structure of the entire game if they retell events from Abby's perspective. Ellie's on a warpath hunting down people she knows and loves in order to find her location. Doubt Ellie ever stops to learn their names.
You are doing a very poor job when it comes to not holding up a neon sign with an arrow pointed towards you that says
"I feel emasculated by a video game character"
I really don't get the connection between "woman with a bodybuilder physique" and "angry feminist."
I'm literally one of the people who see Abby's physique as 'unrealistic' (being another example of it in an already-unrealistic series that barely feels like the apocalypse) but, seriously, this ain't it at all. Jesus.
It fits into the narrative of "you can't dislike this if the 'majority' likes it." that so-often pops up with more 'controversial' games like this. I'd ignore it tbh, it's not really a road you want to go down.
Yeah, that's one of my biggest issues with how this game is going thematically. Instead of presenting a potentially incredibly interesting tale about how lies can affect people and whether you're willing to overlook them when they come from those you love we're getting a story that has a lot of heavy-lifting to do due to its rote "violence begets violence," premise.
That and Joel having to come to terms with the lie he told Ellie, and Ellie having to do the same, would be much more interesting for their characters than Joel and Ellie just having to deal with the unintended consequences of a guy Joel murdered.
I'm literally one of the people who see Abby's physique as 'unrealistic' (being another example of it in an already-unrealistic series that barely feels like the apocalypse) but, seriously, this ain't it at all. Jesus.
It fits into the narrative of "you can't dislike this if the 'majority' likes it." that so-often pops up with more 'controversial' games like this. I'd ignore it tbh, it's not really a road you want to go down.
Yeah, that's one of my biggest issues with how this game is going thematically. Instead of presenting a potentially incredibly interesting tale about how lies can affect people and whether you're willing to overlook them when they come from those you love we're getting a story that has a lot of heavy-lifting to do due to its rote "violence begets violence," premise.
That and Joel having to come to terms with the lie he told Ellie, and Ellie having to do the same, would be much more interesting for their characters than Joel and Ellie just having to deal with the unintended consequences of a guy Joel murdered.
these people spreading the muh woke agenda & Anita Sarkeesian is the reason This game sucks is because they had confirmation bias from the start: the moment Ellie kissed Dina in the e3 2018 trailer is the moment these chuckle Fucks started their narrative. Neil's own admission of using anita's video as part of his research for the first game also didn't help them with this delusion. It just give me a headache tbh, especially because this morons are leaving shit out! Yes, Neil used tropes vs. women as part of his research to do better female characters, but they conveniently leave out the two books that he read as part of his research! The one gets on my nerves is the narrative of left behind being a brain child of Anita, I know this is straight up lie! these Fucks want to know why Ellie kissed Riley? Because Neil made a slip about how Ellie being attractive to Riley when doing an interview for American dreams & it just went from that trip on words. Here's the link and quote
https://www.wired.com/2014/02/last-of-us-dlc-interview-long/
https://twitter.com/anitasarkeesian
"WIRED: One of the big surprises is the kiss between Ellie and Riley. At what point in the process did this become an element of their relationship? Was it part of how you understood Ellie throughout the original game?
Druckmann: When you come up with a character you think about who they are, backstory. With Ellie, it's just been a lingering thought, and I've had conversations with Ashley Johnson about the character. But everything was non-committal. We didn't have to commit to anything because there aren't any romantic storylines in The Last of Us. When I did interviews with Faith for the comic book, and we both made the mistake when we were describing Ellie and Riley for the first time – we said Ellie was attracted to Riley. We meant, I think, that she was just really drawn to her, that she really looked up to her. But then I thought in the back of my mind, what if there's something more than that? It became this interesting dimension of their relationship that we could explore."
Come on, that's a poor argument. And did you just assume my gender?
You do realize Abby doesn't solo Joel right?
She has like 5 or 6 men holding him down. I don't know why everyone ignores the group assisting her in killing him.
JFC. Get out of here with that shit. You read like every fucking gamer-gater post I've seen about this game. You're one step away from saying "IT'S MA'AM!" in relation to Abby that I've seen go around, because god forbid a woman be buff in the god Damn apocalypse
Getting big was all part of Abby revenge plan would be interesting if the game does say that .
Also i think you make a mistake with a name cause Jesse is a man .
Even if she did take him solo it wouldn't be an issue. Joel literally does a one man army schtick in the hospital, killing multiple people who are armed with the only functional assault rifles that appear to exist in the world of TLOU. That's all well and good. But a woman, literally aided by at least six other people:
"Well this is just too woke for me."
Why do you feel emasculated by video game characters?
Sure but my issue is people spreading it around that she did solo when she didn't. If the game wrote that I obviously wouldn't care because you can do anything to people with a weapon.
I just find it dumb to run with this "SHE COULD NEVER" when he was being held hostage by a group of men. A 10 year old could kill him.
Yeah there were many interesting ways this could have gone.
There have been enough violence leads to violence revenge stories.
In for the post TLoU2 period where certain posters will act like every revenge story is influenced by the game
Yea you have to be a walk talking example of how sad men can look when they feel emasculated to assume that Joel could never be killed by a group of people if he get surprised and jumped, (that thing that happened multiple times in the first game, one instance resulting in him getting a pipe through his gut)
Joel straight up nearly got killed by ONE bandit in the first game after killing all their friends.
Presumably he didn't take the flamethrower with him when he went on patrol with Tommy.
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This is it for me. They took the interesting part about the end of the game, the lie between these characters, and seemingly side-lined it for the uninteresting thing about the ending, some nameless NPCs get killed. Then they introduce an entirely new character, have to build her up, make us care about her despite her bashing in the brains of a character we already care about and to say what, "revenge bad?" Yeah. I know. Thanks.
Obviously the lie will come in to play because of this revenge story, but based on the story we know it doesn't seem to be a major factor so they can get Ellie v Abby.
I didn't even say what you're replying too but clearly you don't understand the difference between "a young buff woman killing Joel for ruining her life" and the silly "angry feminist" rhetoric. Abby killing Joel isn't some agenda...its literally the result of Joel's own actions. Whether you think the connection between Joel and Abby is good or not is up to you. But that doesn't mean they're trying to shove some agenda down your throat.
Damn. See I haven't seen the videos because at least I can go in fresh that way. But people act like she beat Joel by herself lol
This goes back to my earlier point about people believing fake spoilers just because they already hate the game for killing off Joel.
Is Kill Bill the 'Last of Us Part 2' of cinema?
Is Moby Dick the 'Last of Us Part 2' of literature?
Is Titus Andronicus the 'Last of Us Part 2' of theatre?
Is 'The Oresteia' the 'Last of Us Part 2' of classical mythology?
Is 'Figure hitting other figure with stick' the 'Last of Us Part 2' of cave paintings?
Yea. I saw someone tell me how Druckmann being influenced by Anita makes the game bad. But I think Neil just takes inspiration from different literatures that appeal to his interest like everyone does. Tho I'm not the most familiar with Anita, I am aware how certain individuals can't stand her. Iirc, isn't she a lawyer and was involved in the Vic case?
Oh no— she was just some lady who started a kickstarter 84 years ago about how some female characters were poorly written in video games... she was/ still is a media critic. she Got badly harassed for speaking on the subject.
Oh gotcha. Her views aren't anything extreme right? Wouldn't mind reading up on her more
Anita introduced the concept of freshman feminism 101 to the gaming industry and gamers lost their minds in spite of game developers reflecting on aspects of their previous projects that could be perceived as offputting even if at the time most people just accepted it as a normal thing:
Like I know the concept of self reflection is the HARDEST possible thing that portion of gamers can be asked to do outside of microwaving hotpockets. But goddamn. It's 2020. Fucking deal with the idea that not all women are meant to pander to straight white dudes. Gaming isn't a boys club. Anita never stated that video games are bad. Just that some aspects of them fed into harmful tropes and stereotypes. Which was true.
Like I know the concept of self reflection is the HARDEST possible thing that portion of gamers can be asked to do outside of microwaving hotpockets. But goddamn. It's 2020. Fucking deal with the idea that not all women are meant to pander to straight white dudes. Gaming isn't a boys club. Anita never stated that video games are bad. Just that some aspects of them fed into harmful tropes and stereotypes. Which was true.
This is hilarious.
"This admittedly very similar situation is in fact ENTIRELY DIFFERENT because I care about one fictional character but not the other."
confession: used to roll with people who didn't like her, but I personally think she's okay....like a Lindsey Ellis or contrapoints.
Speaking of Anita, can't help but think of this video with all of the talks of Abby & her abs.
And this sort of stuff seems obvious on paper and it's crazy that most devs rolled with this sort of thing for so long. Hell they still do, think about how many buff women exist in gaming who don't in anyway pander to the male gaze, you can count them on one hand
-Zarya
-Kassandra
-Abby
it's like with it was revealed that Tracer was a lesbian, just that small bit of knowledge made her a huge outlier when the gaming industry has existed for more than 30 years.
With Anita bemoaning any depiction of violence against women, I am sure she is super thrilled with all the snuff film caliber stuff we are getting out of this game.
i want zarya to crush my bones
also looking at the ratios of likes to dislikes on that video has me worried about reactions to TLOU 2 from the usual crowd on day 1
like i know they will manipulate votes etc. but i didnt realize itd be to that extent, expected a vocal minority
Snuff film caliber huh?
Maybe I haven't seen some footage, but e.g. Abby vs. Ellie fight doesn't really reach that level.
For e.g. new Tomb Raider games glorify Lara's deaths way more and make them far more gruesome than what TLOU 2 shows as Abby beats up Ellie and her girlfriend (I totally suck with remembering names :( )
Should women as characters be immune to these kind acts of violence, from men or women, in games? If so then why and why men as targets for this kind beatings etc. is more okay?
It will be a vocal minority. Remember, most people have an active interest and aren't trying to spoil the game for themselves. So conversation about spoilers is dominated by the GG types, especially in the youtube sphere where the "Do you feel emasculated by women in media, WELL HERE'S THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR INCEL ENERGY AND WHY EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG" channels have something new to target.
The developers literally watched snuff films (or, at the very least, videos of horrible real life violence) as inspiration and, considering what we've seen so far, the game will no doubt be filled with brutalisation similar to that. Lets not forget that the game's second trailer was a contextless cutscene that just showed who-we-now-know-as-Abby getting tortured and nearly hanged.
As for whether women characters should be immune; no, they shouldn't, at least not in logic alone. However if a woman says that they're uncomfortable with it then you should listen and not try to question or downplay it. At the end of the day every single thing in a game is the result of a choice made by someone in real life, and as such we should be asking ourselves not "what should make sense in-universe," but "was the developer right to put this in?"
Not pointing at you in particular but there's been too many instances around, especially in this thread, of otherwise 'good' people suddenly trying to shut down and minimise the voices of marginalised groups because they dared to criticise or express concerns this game. It's tiring for sure, and I feel really alone in trying to call this behaviour out :(
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