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gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
the game of thrones school of writing and i'm not talking about the books. that show really did a number on script writers out there, now everyone thinks "not giving the audience what they want" "subverting your expectations" and "shock value" are the key pillars to good writing. if you're mad, that means you felt something, that means it was written well or something like that.

I won't say it's that before we see the full story of the game.
Joel living out this game was never going to happen given how TLOU world is and i think a good amount of people expected that .
Truth is a lot of what i reading with the game story seem normal for post apocalyptic \dark type fiction stories .
 

Japanmanx3

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,908
Atlanta, GA
Hitting the line as in peoples personal limit for violence. Like the first game was brutal, but I was squeamish through the first gameplay trailer they showed at E3 so I knew then I couldn't handle this. Is it premature when they do have visuals?
Ahh I see. I was speaking more narrative wise. Visually, I still feel like it fits the world but I can understand people not liking what they see. You aren't supposed to either. I just feel like the narrative aim isn't to push the limits of the violence they can show. It just assist in the depiction of this terrible mess of a world these characters inhabit.

Joel having his eyes gouged out in the first game by an infected enemy is disturbing. Having his neck chewed out by another was no different. Fighting humans and having to gun them down or brutally fight them to the death is unnerving. I still react to when the E3 gameplay of the first game ended with blowing a guys whole head off. These things weren't celebrated in the game. You aren't given points for how good you pulled off a killing blow. You just keep your life.

We've seen/done these same things in other games but the tone in this makes it harsher to observe. And the push of technology in general is going to make visuals more realistic and in turn more violent unfortunately. I fully expect GTA VI to push these type of boundaries in a way that does celebrate the violence. It's an unfortunate side affect of the medium. Movies are like this too. Some depict realistic violence in dramatic ways and others are more grounded and the themes conveyed can be for various goals.

Saying it's torture porn because it looks realistic and sounds realistic seems like a cop out. It's not like the game is aiming to be like SAW. It's just not a happy setting. It never has presented itself as that. I feel like people just don't want to see it happen to the characters they've grown to appreciate from the prior game.
 

G_O

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,959
Its a real shame it all leaked. I read it though.

I think it sounds incredible and very brave by the writers. It really sounds like a great story and original too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
I don't think it's premature to feel squeamish about what they've shown, but I would argue that hitting personal limits is sort of the point judging by what happens in the story. It's to reinforce how horrific it is to kill a living person. Not an NPC, but a person with friends, family, hopes and dreams. Which we've all done in video games before, without even thinking about it.
Maybe for a movie, but not a dozen plus hour game you're playing and interacting with.
 

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,081
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
User Banned (2 weeks): inflammatory trolling, history of trolling
I'm disappointed I can't kill Dina and Ellie. I need Abby to use those magnificent arms to break Ellie's neck and this is my instant GOTY.
 

Deleted member 49611

Nov 14, 2018
5,052
i read the spoilers. glad i didn't waste my money on this. sounds awful but i was kind of expecting something like this with that Druckmann in charge.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,464
I feel that Ellie living but not being happy and ultimately still feeling bitter about Abby and yet can't do anything about it to the point that it impacts her relationship with Dinah would be a much better ending then Ellie straight up dying. It means that Ellie has to live with the consequences of going on a fruitless revenge questy and indirectly getting the woman she loved hurt because she was too focused on killing Abby that she ultimately put her love in harms way.
 

Deluxera

Member
Mar 13, 2020
2,580
the game of thrones school of writing and i'm not talking about the books. that show really did a number on script writers out there, now everyone thinks "not giving the audience what they want" "subverting your expectations" and "shock value" are the key pillars to good writing. if you're mad, that means you felt something, that means it was written well or something like that.
I would say this way of writing comes from JJ Abrams and especially "Lost". The scriptwriters were lurking discussion forums about the show and purposefully added twists that would make the fans confused.

It sounds like your being sympathetic/empathetic to the characters you relate to, Ellie and Dina, and seeing them getting treated this way is brutal. But we don't have the full story of Abby and why she is doing this. That's why making snap decisions on her character is futile atm. There is a story to be told with the game that leaks and bullet points aren't going to give you the full picture of.
I am not judging the character of Abby, as you say we don't know much about her. However, everything that is shown or told in a fiction exists because the writer decided to show or tell it. ND likely put tremendous time and ressources and motion capture to create this scene and they knew perfectly the impact it would have. This is no accident, there is a clear intention behind all of this.

Again I'm talking about the visual representation, not the narrative behind it.
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
8,761
United Kingdom
Maybe for a movie, but not a dozen plus hour game you're playing and interacting with.

How so? I'd say a game is far more ripe for asking this question, because games encourage us to kill people all the time without thinking about it. For us to personally pull that trigger and move on to do it to someone else seconds later. So why not make us uncomfortable with the visual representation of our actions?
 

scrambledeggs

Member
Apr 25, 2018
486
I feel that Ellie living but not being happy and ultimately still feeling bitter about Abby and yet can't do anything about it to the point that it impacts her relationship with Dinah would be a much better ending then Ellie straight up dying. It means that Ellie has to live with the consequences of going on a fruitless revenge questy and indirectly getting the woman she loved hurt because she was too focused on killing Abby that she ultimately put her love in harms way.
This... would actually make sense in relation to Druckmann's words about there being worst things than death in an old interview he did after the first official gameplay dropped for the sequel.
 

Ramsay

Member
Jul 2, 2019
3,621
Australia
Looking at the leaks, I think this will be either be gaming's Red Wedding moment, or be worse than The Bells - and it all comes down to execution.

That being said, I'm not confident at all. I think something like what happens in the leaks is exceedingly difficult to execute well - and something like The Bells is far more likely than another Red Wedding.
 

Japanmanx3

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,908
Atlanta, GA
I am not judging the character of Abby, as you say we don't know much about her. However, everything that is shown or told in a fiction exists because the writer decided to show or tell it. ND likely put tremendous time and ressources and motion capture to create this scene and they knew perfectly the impact it would have. This is no accident, there is a clear intention behind all of this.

Again I'm talking about the visual representation, not the narrative behind it.
Which is what? To be controversial? How so? Literally anyone in this world could be doing this to them. As another poster earlier gestured, what if it was a man doing this? The build up to the scene is something to the effect of Abby and Ellie having a beef, we see them fighting, Abby gains the upper hand, Dina comes outta nowhere to attempt to help, and gets hands put on her too. Is the idea of her being pregnant the part that would cause controversy? Would it be less of a thing if she wasn't???

Seems discrediting to say that they made a whole plotline for a character, who seems to have an involved backstory, serves a singular focus of being brutalized by later in the game to simply be like "Yeah, we did that! Pushed it to the EDGE!"
 
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Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
Joel and Ellie both dying isn't a huge surprise to me tbh. I kind of expected this to be a passing of the torch game so they can make lots of sequels in the future.

Still disappointing for people that it leaked so far before release though.
 

RedEye

Member
Oct 25, 2017
686
Would be wild if Ellie really does die, imagine having the Ellie edition of the game just sitting right there fuuuuuuck.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
Which is what? To be controversial? How so? Literally anyone in this world could be doing this to them. As another poster earlier gestured, what if it was a man doing this? The build up to the scene is something to the effect of Abby and Ellie having a beef, we see them fighting, Abby gains the upper hand, Dina comes outta nowhere to attempt to help, and gets hands put on her too. Is the idea of her being pregnant the part that would cause controversy? Would it be less of a thing if she wasn't???

What make that scene even more interesting is in one of the leaks vids you can see it happen before this .
Dina begs Ellie to stay with her since they wanted to start a famliy and she pregnant .
This is Ellie choice coming back to effect her love ones.

Joel and Ellie both dying isn't a huge surprise to me tbh. I kind of expected this to be a passing of the torch game so they can make lots of sequels in the future.

Still disappointing for people that it leaked so far before release though.

We not certain Ellie dies yet but it's looking not to be the case .
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,834
I would say this way of writing comes from JJ Abrams and especially "Lost". The scriptwriters were lurking discussion forums about the show and purposefully added twists that would make the fans confused.
Source on that? Literally the first time i'm hearing about this.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,464
This... would actually make sense in relation to Druckmann's words about there being worst things than death in an old interview he did after the first official gameplay dropped for the sequel.
Yeah - honestly i could have seen an ending where being Dinah leaving Ellie and Ellie is all alone on the farm but with the whole Dinah wanting Ellie to stay i doubt that. I still think it would make sense as a consequence of Ellie's revenge leaving her with nothing
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
Oct 25, 2017
13,666
Since Dina is talking about already having a family in the cutscene where Ellie is leaving her and Abby is looking for fireflies I wonder if that's on the Santa Barbara chapter or the beginning of the farm one.
 

scrambledeggs

Member
Apr 25, 2018
486
Yeah - honestly i could have seen an ending where being Dinah leaving Ellie and Ellie is all alone on the farm but with the whole Dinah wanting Ellie to stay i doubt that. I still think it would make sense as a consequence of Ellie's revenge leaving her with nothing
🥺

I'm still holding out hope that Ellie and Dina will tie the knot on their hospital beds and have some semblance of happiness together on a farm with their baby.

But I also wouldn't be mad at this ending. It'll make me sad af, but I like to cry anyway.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
It's interesting at least. They could have gone much safer but decided to MGS2 it, in an attempt I assume to conclude their original vision. I like some of the ideas here but some are also huuuuuuge red flags that I can't see being well executed regardless of the context. It seems also like, parodically too edgy? But you can't really form an opinion on most things with just these out of context clips. That being said this sure is a torture porn festival.
 

TheGamingNewsGuy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 5, 2017
31,464
🥺

I'm still holding out hope that Ellie and Dina will tie the knot on their hospital beds and have some semblance of happiness together on a farm with their baby.

But I also wouldn't be mad at this ending. It'll make me sad af, but I like to cry anyway.
Honestly i know it's not going to happen but i feel this would be a fitting ending if the game wants to go into the whole cycle of hatred and how it effects pepole. Having Dina ultimately leave Ellie due to what happened i feel would be an apporiate ending to Ellie's arc in LOTU2 because ultimately this revenge quest was Ellie's choice and Dina got hurt based on it. Buuuutt based on the leaked scenes that's not happening
 

aSqueakyLime

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,434
England
Sounds awful, feels like it's subverting expectations for the sake of it

Apparently Joel's death is super miserable, just to """"shock"""" you
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,666
🥺

I'm still holding out hope that Ellie and Dina will tie the knot on their hospital beds and have some semblance of happiness together on a farm with their baby.

But I also wouldn't be mad at this ending. It'll make me sad af, but I like to cry anyway.
I think they are happy for a while until Ellie feels she has to leave in the second to last chapter
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,388
Jesus Abby is built like a frikken Tank.

I dont mind the deaths listed so far, and id be A-Ok with Ellie going too which im sure she will.

I doubt Ill day one this like i did The Last of Us, but ill certainly give it a go down the line, I actually like the gameplay of TLOU so that alone is enough to keep me interested in actually playing.
The story not so much.
 

Bobbyleejones

Banned
Aug 25, 2019
2,581
The fact we don't get to play as Joel or Ellie in the future is a shot in the stomach. Going through their story in part 1, but then poof. I understand that the game has a certain direction but there had to be a better way
 
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
This game is slowly convincing me that maybe TLOU 1 wasn't actually good in the first place, because this honestly looks like it's going to be trash.
 

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
I'm usually not a huge fan of Naughty Dog games, I think they are more show than substance and most of the topics revolves around how good they look instead of the actual game design & writing.

That being said, I think this is probably their boldest game to date, and I respect that. Curious to see how the fans react.

This game is slowly convincing me that maybe TLOU 1 wasn't actually good in the first place

It always felt overrated to me
 

scrambledeggs

Member
Apr 25, 2018
486
Honestly i know it's not going to happen but i feel this would be a fitting ending if the game wants to go into the whole cycle of hatred and how it effects pepole. Having Dina ultimately leave Ellie due to what happened i feel would be an apporiate ending to Ellie's arc in LOTU2 because ultimately this revenge quest was Ellie's choice and Dina got hurt based on it. Buuuutt based on the leaked scenes that's not happening
Wait, what leaked scenes? Have the Farm or the Santa Barbra scenes leaked already?

I think they are happy for a while until Ellie feels she has to leave in the second to last chapter
I can see that too. :(

I can't wait for this game to emotionally fuck me over.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
I'm usually not a huge fan of Naughty Dog games, I think they are more show than substance and most of the topics revolves around how good they look instead of the actual game design & writing.

That being said, I think this is probably their boldest game to date, and I respect that. Curious to see how the fans react.
If this thread is anything to go by, it's gonna be one annoying ass discourse.
 

ZeroDS

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
3,419
I'm kinda glad I saw this stuff. I'm not sure I have the stomach for this anymore so I think I'll skip it
 
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