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The Last of Us Part 2 Spoilercast w/ Neil Druckmann, Ashley Johnson, Troy Baker

SunBroDave

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,148
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
 
Aldro

Aldro

Member
Jun 5, 2020
873
Sweden
SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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AAAAAAAAH this post hit me hard.
 
Dio

Dio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,097
SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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fuck yes, preach it.
 
Eeyore

Eeyore

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Dec 13, 2019
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gameovergreggy said:
I've seen people chime in on this, but to lay all the details out, Laura's coming on for 'We Have Cool Friends,' and that'll be a spoilercast unto itself about her journey in the game. Records tomorrow, posts Monday.
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Good to see. She has such a good performance in this game, it must have been hard for her to be hidden from a lot of the marketing around the game. Glad you're having her on!
 
Lifejumper

Lifejumper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,272
SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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Bro
 

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SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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Man, I love this game
 
Eeyore

Eeyore

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About 1:35:00 into the video Neil talks about the review restrictions for those who are interested.

They also go into the depiction of Lev and how some trans people have some problems with how his trauma is depicted right after that.

Aestivalis said:
So the internet overinterpreted the moth symbolism.
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Haha I think it's kinda nice that we all thought more into it than Neil and Halley and co. did.
 
Reizzz

Reizzz

Member
Jun 19, 2019
1,813
SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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Fucking wow yeah! Great stuff!
 
cb1115

cb1115

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,347
SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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full
 
Mariolee

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,307
SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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Yup, beautifully explained.
 

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Troy Baker getting emotional as he talks about... you know... is very touching. His obvious love and concern for Ashley is quite wonderful. A good chap.
 
Makeno

Makeno

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Dec 4, 2018
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Reading through Youtube comments on certain scenes and bruh

There's a *lot* of people that wanted Ellie to kill Lev to justify killing Abby which is new levels of wtf
 
ciddative

ciddative

Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,618
Glad it was mentioned that everyone's interpretations are right and wrong and neither, that's the whole point.

The name calling and condescension displayed recently with people being told they needed psychiatric help or to grow up because they had different takeaways from what was obviously 'intended' has been nauseating
 
Magoo

Magoo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,230
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Spinluck said:
It'll be their longest one yet lol

Btw is that a channel ran by Nolan North and Troy Baker? If so that's pretty cool lol. I had just discovered it recently.
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Troy Baker left Retro Replay a while ago. It'll just be Nolan North joined by others from now on. He's playing Lego Star Wars with his son and Uncharted 3 with the cast at the moment.
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,958
SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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I mean that is pretty obvious from the scene, it still makes no sense to me why now and not before she's able to "see" Joel. It's also poor editing to just drop that flashback for the first time at the end without any prior setup, imo.
 
spam flakes

spam flakes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,847
SunBroDave said:
So Druckmann says that a major point of both games is how far you'll go because of your love for somebody. Given that, my read on Ellie's motivation during the final sequence is: (spoiler tagged just in case)
When she's drowning Abby, and the camera holds on Ellie's face, Ellie has a moment of moral clarity, and knows that what she's doing is crazy, is horrible. She says to herself that this is what she has to do though, this and all of the horrible shit that she's done is justified because of what they did to Joel, and because of just how much she loved Joel. And that's when she remembers the porch scene about forgiving Joel, about how she doesn't know how. And Ellie puts two and two together, understanding how far she went because of her love for Joel, all of the horrible things she was willing to do, and she finally understands how he could do what he did at the end of the first game. She's just as guilty of doing unspeakable things because of her love for him, and she's still doing horrible things by currently drowning Abby. So she lets go, and lets Abby and Lev go free.

I'm pretty happy with that interpretation.
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I like it. I like this a lot
 
Dio

Dio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,097
ciddative said:
Glad it was mentioned that everyone's interpretations are right and wrong and neither, that's the whole point.

The name calling and condescension displayed recently with people being told they needed psychiatric help or to grow up because they had different takeaways from what was obviously 'intended' has been nauseating
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when a user here described that he wanted to
dismember abby, and send the rest to Lev, yes...
saying they should seek help is absolutely warranted.
 
ciddative

ciddative

Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,618
Dio said:
when a user here described that he wanted to
dismember abby, and send the rest to Lev, yes...
saying they should seek help is absolutely warranted.
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I respectfully disagree.

Someone having a extreme and clearly hyperbolic reaction to a fictional character's actions when said actions were explicitly designed to provoke disgust and anger does not justify or excuse calling someone's mental health into question, especially when those sentiments are obviously disengenuous and meant to deride rather than support/aid.

Edit: It trivialises real, actual mental health issues that many people suffer from for the sake of a cheap anonymous jab in an online forum

Edit 2

Eeyore said:
If you're threatened by strong powerful women or by minority representation, you can get fucked being the one major one for me. This stuff is interpretative and you aren't wrong if you didn't like the ending or the story or how it was told. I do think you're wrong if you just screech about wamen and how all the men died in this story, not saying you're doing so just seeing a lot of it on Reddit and Twitch.
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Agree 100%. Wasn't referring to that kind of reaction as it would never have crossed my mind, but reductiveness and small-mindedness is not exclusive to any side of the discussion
 
Eeyore

Eeyore

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Dec 13, 2019
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ciddative said:
Glad it was mentioned that everyone's interpretations are right and wrong and neither, that's the whole point.

The name calling and condescension displayed recently with people being told they needed psychiatric help or to grow up because they had different takeaways from what was obviously 'intended' has been nauseating
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I agree with this with one or two exceptions.

If you're threatened by strong powerful women or by minority representation, you can get fucked being the one major one for me. This stuff is interpretative and you aren't wrong if you didn't like the ending or the story or how it was told. I do think you're wrong if you just screech about wamen and how all the men died in this story, not saying you're doing so just seeing a lot of it on Reddit and Twitch.
 
munchie64

munchie64

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,541
Would be interested to hear from trans people on Niel's response to the question about trans concerns.
 
Dio

Dio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,097
ciddative said:
I respectfully disagree.

Someone having a extreme and clearly hyperbolic reaction to a fictional character's actions when said actions were explicitly designed to provoke disgust and anger does not justify or excuse calling someone's mental health into question, especially when those sentiments are obviously disengenuous and meant to deride rather than support/aid.

Edit: It trivialises real, actual mental health issues that many people suffer from for the sake of a cheap anonymous jab in an online forum
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it does, when ppl like you are able to have a healthy discussion, without such childish reactions. if anything, i feel like you're the one trivializing such reactions as just "disliking something". those reactions aren't healthy, to a degree of seeking help or not.

munchie64 said:
Would be interested to hear from trans people on Niel's response to the question about trans concerns.
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got the timecode to it?
 
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