The Lack of Third-Person options in recent and upcoming Action-Adventure/Open World/RPGs

[Deleted member 37739]

This is why The Outer Worlds did nothing for me and why I'll probably struggle to get into with Cyberpunk (even though TW3 is one of my favourite games of all time). For me, story-telling and third-person go hand-in-hand: playing a story-driven game in first-person is like reading a novel written in second person - it's very off-putting.

 

[TheGhost]

I'm just sick of third person games so the more the merrier in the FPS

of course I'm sure there are people sick of FPS games as well. I'm connected well enough when i see the character i created in dialogue screens.

 

[Fawz]

I'm really not a fan of First Person perspective outside of action focused Shooters, so for me this a very dissapointing trend. I understand not being able to offer both perspectives though, and in the end devs pick what they feel will work out best for their game. In the end there's a good offering of both types so can't really complain outside of specific games not being as interesting to me personally due to being First Person.

 

[abellwillring]

But yes, it is a bit of work. But if the work was done for a character creator why not budget in third person? Why have the first without the second?

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There are mirrors in games usually, there are menus, there is sometimes a photo mode, etc. where your created character is visible. This complaint sounds a lot like people complaining about the Pokedex. There is significantly more work involved in this then you want to acknowledge. It's not just "a bit of work." The budgets for many games are already very high and if gamers want devs to minimize/remove crunch, then you can't also want them to spend more time and resources on adding major features to games.

 

[Mimosa]

I'm one of those people that can't play 1st person games - or even watch people play them.

Without fail I get really nauseous/motion sick, and it's just not a pleasant experience. I also generally would rather experience a world/story through a defined character who I can see react to their environment, as somehow I've always felt less impacted by stories with a blank slate avatar. There's nothing to connect to for me.

But yes, sadly 1st person games provide an accessibility barrier that makes them completely off-limits for me, so games like Cyberpunk hold 0 interest for me, even if I loved TW3.

 

[Sadnarav]

Yeah, Cyberpunk 2077 being first person made my interest drop A LOT

I don't believe in immersion and I don't like first person as a perspective. I play them and love some as Dishonored or Portal, but ratter have the option of third person even if it's hot shit like the Bethesda games

But I also understand that it's extra work so games with lower budget games as Other Worlds and Bloodlines is hard to implement it

 

[Deleted member 29682]

Do we count isometric as third-person, or explicitly over-the-shoulder perspectives?

 

[Deleted member 8196]

Do we count isometric as third-person, or explicitly over-the-shoulder perspectives?

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You know the answer, everything non "over the shoulder" is viewed badly here by a large amount of users.

 

[Slaythe]

I can't play FPS very long.

I also hate fps rpg because really the truth is that they don't want to spend time and money on making full cutscene animations.

But customizing your character is so pointless if you never see them.

At least in Vampire I think they're trying to make it so that you see them more often.

Kind of killed my hype for cyberpunk.

There's a reason they give you 3rd person for vehicles too... they should have given 3rd person exploration on foot too, just have it go 1st person if a dialogue triggers (or a fight).

 

[Jon of the Wired]

I think it is unfortunate that a FP perspective causes some people discomfort, but I think it's best to address that problem directly by understanding the source of that discomfort and including features that can minimize or eliminate it, rather than having to build and design around a whole other camera system. Other people have mentioned adjustable FOV, and there may be tricks that can be pulled in from the VR world that would help (tunnel vision while moving, settings to remove head-bob and other unnecessary camera movement, etc).

As someone who prefers FP games, I like that these games are going to be FP only, because it means that the game can be designed to take advantage of that perspective. There are things you can do in FP games that just don't work well in third-person (small rooms and tight corridors, areas that contain small detailed objects or writing that you want a player to look at, etc) and not needing to accommodate someone playing through the game in third-person allows you to lean into that stuff much more. And, obviously, any money saved by not having to implement and QA a third-person camera is money that can be spent on other parts of the game.

 

[Edgar]

Why Last of Us, Uncharted, Bloodborne , Horizon Zero Dawn, Days gone dont offer First person perspective?

 

[AgentLampshade]

I'm still a bit bummed about Cyberpunk. I'm still on-board and will probably end up enjoying it, but I prefer Third Person so much more and considering this was first announced to be both 1st and 3rd person, it stung. Then came the announcement that most (if not all) of the game cutscenes will also be 1st person.

Again, I'm looking forward to it, but I can't deny it's no longer the game I dreamed of playing.

 

[808s & Villainy]

It's a handful of games in an overwhelming majority of those genres that are third person. If a game is made for first person, it can't always easily be translated to 3rd person. I can't find the gif, but there was one showing what the model for on FPS looked like with a 3rd person mod. The model was just stretching up/down when they crouched/stood up.

Also, why no demand first person modes in 3rd person games as well then?

 

[Aaron D.]

I'm really not a fan of First Person perspective outside of action focused Shooters, so for me this a very dissapointing trend.

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Is it really a trend though?

Feels like this gen as been utterly dominated by 3rd-person AAA Prestige games in the (big budget) adventure/rpg space.

So much so that it feels like the formula is kinda stale at this point.

 

[dancingphlower]

Do we count isometric as third-person, or explicitly over-the-shoulder perspectives?

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That's definitely third person, just a variant of it.

 

[Pargon]

Can't say that I'm upset about it after a generation of nearly everything going third-person.
A lot of first person games need to do better with their accessibility features though:

• FOV adjustments - which must include viewmodel FOV, not just the camera!
• Options to adjust or disable view bobbing.
• Options to disable vignetting and other screen effects.
• Options to adjust motion blur shutter or disable it entirely.
• Options to always display a crosshair.
• No limits on camera control speed (The Witness made me really motion sick until I switched from a DS4 to a Steam Controller because the camera movement was too slow).
• Never take camera control away from the player.
• Focus on consistent and smooth performance.

But a lot of that could be applied to either perspective.
Third-person games are the ones which have made me motion sick far more than first-person games this generation, so it's definitely not a universal thing.

Do we count isometric as third-person, or explicitly over-the-shoulder perspectives?

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I wouldn't call them third-person.

At least in Vampire I think they're trying to make it so that you see them more often.

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It's very disappointing to see. I hate it when first-person games kill immersion by pulling the camera out for cutscenes, cover systems, special abilities etc.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

This thread reads like it's using accessibility as a trojan horse because OP can't play dressup in those games. What did we learn from all those Sekiro discussions?

 

[Dio]

If all three of the developers mentioned in the OP had only done first person games in the past you'd have an argument. All of them have a legacy of third person or combined games.

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but your examples suck tho. New Vegas animations in 3rd person aren't good. 2077 will show you customizations in cut-scenes. have not played vampire so cant argue for or against. Witcher would not work in first person, so it's hasn't anything to do with him being a set character or not.
i get that some cant play FPS's, but given this demanding tone, i can only laugh, honestly.

This thread reads like it's using accessibility as a trojan horse because OP can't play dressup in those games. What did we learn from all those Sekiro discussions?

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also this

 

[Sadnarav]

but your examples suck tho. New Vegas animations in 3rd person aren't good. 2077 will show you customizations in cut-scenes. have not played vampire so cant argue for or against. Witcher would not work in first person, so it's hasn't anything to do with him being a set character or not.
i get that some cant play FPS's, but given this demanding tone, i can only laugh, honestly.



also this

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Didn't CDPR said that they are making all cutscene in first person a few months ago?

Here, I found it

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2077s-cutscenes-will-apparently-be-first-person/

That killed more of my interest in the game

Being able to see my character is always more interesting to me than always be looking at their gun

 

[Deleted member 37739]

This thread reads like it's using accessibility as a trojan horse because OP can't play dressup in those games. What did we learn from all those Sekiro discussions?

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For my own part, I'm perfectly able to play FPS (except The Witness - that game wrecked me), I just don't like it. Takes me right out of the story, especially when I look down and find that I have no feet or legs (The Outer Worlds most recently) or when I imagine what my character must look like walking around with every equipped object held up in front of them.

Even outside of that though, first person is typically far less suited for stealth, melee combat, traversal and platforming, all of which has become increasingly common parts of modern RPGs. And that's to say nothing of organic inventory management. Days Gone is a great example of this: without having a cluttered HUD or hopping into my menu I can see exactly what I have equipped - it's all on my back, including little touches like silencers and so forth.

 

[Mentalist]

Is it really a trend though?

Feels like this gen as been utterly dominated by 3rd-person AAA Prestige games in the (big budget) adventure/rpg space.

So much so that it feels like the formula is kinda stale at this point.

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The only major ones who didn't were Bethesda Publishing (Dishonored, Prey, Wolfenstein, Rage 2, DOOM), and Squeeenix (Deus Ex MD). Pretty much everything else AAA was dominated by open-world 3rd person games.

EDIT: I guess EA tried to bring Mirror's Edge back with Catalyst, too. Oh, and Techland's original Dying Light.

 

[Dio]

Didn't CDPR said that they are making all cutscene in first person a few months ago?

Here, I found it

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2077s-cutscenes-will-apparently-be-first-person/

That killed more of my interest in the game

Being able to see my character is always more interesting to me than always be looking at their gun

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oh, you're right actually. my bad. still, it's a design decision. id be vastly more ok if the tone of the thread was this:

Can't say that I'm upset about it after a generation of nearly everything going third-person.
A lot of first person games need to do better with their accessibility features though:

• FOV adjustments - which must include viewmodel FOV, not just the camera!
• Options to adjust or disable view bobbing.
• Options to disable vignetting and other screen effects.
• Options to adjust motion blur shutter or disable it entirely.
• Options to always display a crosshair.
• No limits on camera control speed (The Witness made me really motion sick until I switched from a DS4 to a Steam Controller because the camera movement was too slow).
• Never take camera control away from the player.
• Focus on consistent and smooth performance.

But a lot of that could be applied to either perspective.
Third-person games are the ones which have made me motion sick far more than first-person games this generation, so it's definitely not a universal thing.


I wouldn't call them third-person.


It's very disappointing to see. I hate it when first-person games kill immersion by pulling the camera out for cutscenes, cover systems, special abilities etc.

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instead of basically dressing up. a lot of 3rd person games don't offer costumization.

 

[MajesticSoup]

Motion sickness in games is actually more common in asians. Part of the reason shooters arent as popular in asia as they are in the west.

I personally cant play fps games that dont have an fov slider. And even then my play session can only be an hour or 2 max.

 

[Edgar]

For my own part, I'm perfectly able to play FPS (except The Witness - that game wrecked me), I just don't like it. Takes me right out of the story, especially when I look down and find that I have no feet or legs (The Outer Worlds most recently) or when I imagine what my character must look like walking around with every equipped object held up in front of them.

Even outside of that though, first person is typically far less suited for stealth, melee combat, traversal and platforming, all of which has become increasingly common parts of modern RPGs.

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Have you played dishonored, mirrors edge, dying light, thief , Dark messiah? All those games were great at stealth /melee combat/traversal/platforming

 

[Deleted member 8196]

Part of the reason shooters arent as popular in asia as they are in the west.

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Yes CrossFire is indeed not popular in Asia and Korea didn't dominate competitive Overwatch for years.

 

[.exe]

Some games you'd have to remake entirely to work in third person. I can't see Dishonored working well outside of first-person.

Leaning becomes pointless, stealth generally becomes easy, the character model could obscure blink, moving around in tight enclosures is generally not going to work anymore, swordfighting becomes a complete mess, etc.

DX HR/MD tried to compromise, but I really don't think that system was good at all. Super jarring going back and forth. Doing takedowns was a gamble each time — will or won't others notice, I constantly lost my sense of direction, hiding behind geometry in FP gave different cover than in TP.

 

[Billfisto]

Yeah, the thing is, you essentially need to make two different games at the same time if you do this.

Animations need to be re-done. It's not as simple as throwing a camera inside the player model's head, or pulling the camera behind the player. Just look at any video where someone's modded the game to make it third-person. Look at Skyrim. Third-person games that include a first-person mode usually make the character model invisible to avoid clipping issues, or the animations looking like butt. This sort of thing is easier to do in multiplayer-centric games because you already need to have players see other players doing things, but for first-person games, especially ones concentrating on immersion with lots of handsy interaction stuff, that's a pain to do so it looks good from both perspectives.

Geometry needs to be designed with both viewpoints in mind. Stuff that looks the right size from a first-person perspective usually looks huge when you actually see the player character beside it. You also now have to decide how to handle camera clipping and movement in an enclosed space, often with the player model eclipsing your vision, which can have a huge negative impression on players if enough time isn't devoted to it.

Plus there are gameplay considerations - third-person viewpoints give you much more visibility regarding your surroundings, so encounters would need to be balanced with that in mind.

Factor in that QA basically needs to be done with both perspectives in mind, and it's just not worth it in most cases. It's usually better to use your resources to really focus on getting one perspective working well.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

first person is typically far less suited for stealth

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Thief didn't work as a stealth game
Deus ex as well
And Dishonored

Lol

 

[LumberPanda]

I've learnt recently that, um, "not every game is for everyone" and we should "respect the developer's artistic vision".

References to other threads aside I do wish cp2077 would have third person view options. Especially since I have zero faith CDPR is going to make it feel good to control in first person.

Edit: and like always the fov will be way too low on console with no sliders.

 

[ItchyTasty]

I'd argue that in Cyberpunk 2077 world immersion might be more important than player-character immersion. Or that CD project red don't have any experience with third person shooting.

I'd rather have a good FPS than a bad TPS.

 

[Dio]

I've learnt recently that, um, "not every game is for everyone" and we should "respect the developer's artistic vision".

References to other threads aside I do wish cp2077 would have third person view options.

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i mean, accessibility is is good always. OP post isn't it. when the discussion boils down to taste vs artistic vision...ill prefer the latter, lol

 

[Deleted member 37739]

Have you played dishonored, mirrors edge, dying light, thief , Dark messiah? All those games were great at stealth /melee combat/traversal/platforming

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In order: yes, yes, yes, no, no... of the three I did play I think all of them succeed despite that choice, not because of it. Dishonored made heavy use of Blink to alleviate the issues with traversal, for example, and while Dying Light did traversal much better, the melee combat would have been much more manageable in third person. The best first person melee combat I've experienced is probably Vermintide 2, but these serve more often as exceptions.

This is in entirely my perception, but I think the general trends in the industry do point to a consensus.

Thief didn't work as a stealth game
Deus ex as well
And Dishonored

Lol

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"typically less suited" =/= "didn't work"

 

[Deleted member 679]

It's a valid opinion like any other, but there's no "excuse". Third person isn't the industry standard, or whatever, they don't need an excuse to not have this option as much as third person games don't need excuses to not have first person modes.

 

[OrangeNova]

Third Person makes me more sick then a lot of first person options, so I'm pretty okay with it, but I understand that everyone is different.

 

[poofynamanama2]

I'm glad I dont have something as silly as motion sickness in video games. God damn would that suck

Will be enjoying and loving all 3 of those games. I hope they never put in third person, developers need to stop catering to whiners.

 

[Deleted member 51789]

Some people don't like FPS games and that's fine, but people shouldn't hide their desire for a game to be from a different perspective behind accessibility as the OP has done for part of their argument.

There are a whole host of accessibility options that can be used to reduce motion sickness - this is something devs definitely should include and players should ask for.

Ignoring this and asking devs to do a host of extra work just so you can play from a perspective that you enjoy more is plain unreasonable

 

[Maligna]

You have my axe, OP.

And shame on everyone in here dunking on you for advocating choice. You didn't say kill the FPS. You and I just want the option.

I hope they never put in third person, developers need to stop catering to whiners.

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Imagine being this petty over other people's preferences.

 

[elenarie]

You could force first person viewpoints in confined/interior locations. Other games have done that.

But yes, it is a bit of work. But if the work was done for a character creator why not budget in third person? Why have the first without the second?

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Add at least a few more months of dev time. :) A bit more than a bit of work.

 

[Splader]

Designing a competent looking third person mode takes more time and resources. I think Obsidian mentioned it being something they wanted to do, but weren't able to fit it in. So yeah, it's not always "artistic choice".

That being said, it's not like there's a lack of third person action adventure games. Quite the opposite really.

 

[Deleted member 135]

Will be enjoying and loving all 3 of those games. I hope they never put in third person, developers need to stop catering to whiners.

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So DICE shouldn't cater to the whiners and refuse to revert the TTK in BFV? Right?

Add at least a few more months of dev time. :) A bit more than a bit of work.

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Oh I know, I was just using the language of the post I quoted. I still think its worthwhile to include third person if a game has a character creator.

 

[Edgar]

Add at least a few more months of dev time. :) A bit more than a bit of work.

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its fine , more crunch never hurt anyone
oh wait..

 

[Mentalist]

In order: yes, yes, yes, no, no... of the three I did play I think all of them succeed despite that choice, not because of it. Dishonored made heavy use of Blink to alleviate the issues with traversal, for example, and while Dying Light did traversal much better, the melee combat would have been much more manageable in third person. The best first person melee combat I've experienced is probably Vermintide 2, but these serve more often as exceptions.

This is in entirely my perception, but I think the general trends in the industry do point to a consensus.



"typically less suited" =/= "didn't work"

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This is just my opinion, but I always find that stealth in 3rd person is easymode, because you have this supernatural awareness of where enemies are.

When playing the new Deus Ex I re-mapped the "take cover" button to the "`" key to make sure I never use it, and I played both games in 1st person, except for mandatory ladders and takedowns. I also disabled the radar in MD- I wish HR gave you the option to do that as well. It made the game feel so much more proper stealth.

 

[Teggy]

I love 3rd person view, but I've never played a first person game where the 3rd person option felt good. I think they all have floaty movement, and picking up items can be difficult because they appear much smaller and not highlighted properly. Games like Skyrim come to mind.

 

[.exe]

In order: yes, yes, yes, no, no... of the three I did play I think all of them succeed despite that choice, not because of it. Dishonored made heavy use of Blink to alleviate the issues with traversal, for example, and while Dying Light did traversal much better, the melee combat would have been much more manageable in third person. The best first person melee combat I've experienced is probably Vermintide 2, but these serve more often as exceptions.

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Dishonored worked because it was first-person, if you ask me. Leaning over edges is a far more interesting mechanic than being able to peek around corner in third-person while being completely safe — especially for stealth. Can't be a vent crawler without FP either. The camera just breaks down in confined spaces. As for Blink, that was just a cool movement mechanic, no? I don't see how it was "solving issues with traversal" that wouldn't be there in third-person.

 

[Maligna]

As for Cyberpunk OP, I have hope that the online portion the game that's coming later will integrate third person camera.

Then maybe the next gen port of the game can have third person added in the story mode, sort of like this gen's port of GTAV added first person.

 

[Nostremitus]

Yep, my wife would love to play Destiny 2 but only have 3rd person camera when using a sword or doing a emote means she can't play it. First person camera view gives her simulation sickness.

 

[TwoPikachus]

Man, it really seems like the people defending first person are doing so rabidly. Calm down, people.

Perhaps from your perspective FPP games are rare, but from the perspective of people who prefer a TPP, FPP games are in abundance. It seems like every big game is a shooter or first-person RPG.

For some it's a health issue - they can't play these games because of motion sickness or headaches.

For others it's impossible to get a sense of immersion or connection.

Both are legitimate complaints. You can disagree with the desire for more third-person options but please stop being needlessly combative. Thanks.

 

[Maligna]

Man, it really seems like the people defending first person are doing so rabidly. Calm down, people.

Perhaps from your perspective FPP games are rare, but from the perspective of people who prefer a TPP, FPP games are in abundance. It seems like every big game is a shooter or first-person RPG.

For some it's a health issue - they can't play these games because of motion sickness or headaches.

For others it's impossible to get a sense of immersion or connection.

Both are legitimate complaints. You can disagree with the desire for more third-person options but please stop being needlessly combative. Thanks.

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It reminds me of a lot of cat people and dog people.

Cat people: I like dogs fine, I just prefer cats.
Dog people: fuck cats!

 

[Deleted member 37739]

This is just my opinion, but I always find that stealth in 3rd person is easymode, because you have this supernatural awareness of where enemies are.

When playing the new Deus Ex I re-mapped the "take cover" button to the "`" key to make sure I never use it, and I played both games in 1st person, except for mandatory ladders and takedowns. I also disabled the radar in MD- I wish HR gave you the option to do that as well. It made the game feel so much more proper stealth.

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I wouldn't disagree - that's actually why I prefer stealth in third person. It's not realistic, not at all, but that's the way with most video game representations of real world scenarios.

Dishonored worked because it was first-person, if you ask me. Leaning over edges is a far more interesting mechanic than being able to peek around corner in third-person while being completely safe — especially for stealth. Can't be a vent crawler without FP either. The camera just breaks down in confined spaces. As for Blink, that was just a cool movement mechanic, no? I don't see how it was "solving issues with traversal" that wouldn't be there in third-person.

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Happy to put it down to preference, I do think Dishonored is a really good game (the art direction in particular), but the whole time I was playing I was thinking, this would so much better if it was third person.

 

[Edgar]

Man, it really seems like the people defending first person are doing so rabidly. Calm down, people.

Perhaps from your perspective FPP games are rare, but from the perspective of people who prefer a TPP, FPP games are in abundance. It seems like every big game is a shooter or first-person RPG.

For some it's a health issue - they can't play these games because of motion sickness or headaches.

For others it's impossible to get a sense of immersion or connection.

Both are legitimate complaints. You can disagree with the desire for more third-person options but please stop being needlessly combative. Thanks.

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there are far more third person games this generation than first person . Thats not a perspective thing or an opinion thing, thats a fact .