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CDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,476
With the attention the movie is getting I thought it was important to remember the real life victim, Charlie Howard, and his murder that inspired King to write that chapter in the book.





BANGOR, Maine — Moviegoers from Maine who watch the film "It: Chapter Two" this weekend might recognize a scene that draws on a painful event from the state's history.
The scene involves a gay character named Adrian Mellon being attacked by teenagers and his subsequent encounter with Pennywise the Clown. The scene is based on real-life Bangor resident Charlie Howard, who was attacked and thrown off the city's State Street Bridge in 1984.
Stephen King tells the Bangor Daily News that the killing still had currency when he was writing the book on which the movie is based.
"At the time I started writing 'It,' the Howard murder had just happened. It was fresh in my mind and fitted my idea of Derry as a place where terrible things happened," King said. "And, maybe needless to say, I was outraged. It was a hate crime."






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In the summer of 1984, Bangor was brimming with pride, celebrating its 150th birthday with a 10-day party. Residents descended on downtown to enjoy their city. On the night of July 7, there was a performance of "The Music Man" on the riverfront.
...
Charlie Howard, 23, was a native of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. He had moved to Bangor from Ellsworth earlier that year. He was a member of the Unitarian Church, now the Brick Church, at First and Union streets in Bangor.
Friends remember Howard as a free spirit who experienced trouble in his schooling and frequently was bullied.
The church was one of the few places in 1980s Bangor where gays and lesbians felt they could be open about their sexuality.
...
On the evening of July 7, 1984, Howard had attended a potluck supper at the church. Later that night, about 10:30 p.m., he was walking along State Street in downtown Bangor, arm-in-arm with his friend Roy Ogden.
That's when three young men crossed their path.
Daniel Ness, 17, Shawn I. Mabry, 16, and James Francis Baines, 15, had spent the day drinking alcohol they had paid acquaintances of legal age to buy for them.
...
Later, they would tell Bangor police they just wanted to beat up a "faggot" — something they claimed to have done before.
...
When the boys saw Howard and Ogden, Mabry pulled over. The three boys jumped out of the car. One of them, according to a book written about the crime, called out loudly, "Hey, are you guys gay?"
The verbal confrontation escalated and Howard and Ogden ran across State Street. The boys pursued them. Howard tripped and fell. They kicked him, grabbed him and threw him over the bridge railing into the Kenduskeag Stream, about 15 feet below.
Howard shouted for help. He reportedly had told his attackers he could not swim.
As the boys pulled away in their car, laughing, Howard was struggling to breathe and to stay afloat in the stream. Ogden ran and pulled a nearby fire alarm.
Howard's body was recovered about 12:10 a.m. Sunday, July 8, in about 3 feet of water south of the State Street bridge. An autopsy determined he died by drowning, with an acute asthma attack as a contributing factor.
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...
Charlie Howard's death and the subsequent legal case cast a long shadow over Bangor. The city's response at the time is remembered as muted, a reflection of divided community sentiment.
"There wasn't the outrage of, 'Why did this happen?'" recalls Pat Blanchette, a former state legislator and current Bangor city councilor. "It was people saying it was Charlie Howard's fault because he didn't hide it."
...
As recently as 2011, a vandal scrawled the words "Die Fags" on the small Howard memorial near the bridge where he was killed.
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The boys were sent to the Hancock County Jail and later released into their parents' custody. The boys were tried as juveniles and sentenced to the Maine Youth Center not to exceed their 21st birthdays.The boys were sentenced on 1 October 1984. According to the Bangor Daily News, "Baines was released after serving two years and Mabry was released after 22 months."

 

Scullibundo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,678
User banned (3 days): driving derail in a sensitive thread
Thanks for the spoilers. Seeing the movie tomorrow night.
 

Herr Starr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,220
Norway
I have only read the book, but I wouldn't say this really qualifies as much of a spoiler. If I recall correctly, this scene is part of the book's opening.
 

overcast

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,404
User banned (1 day): derail of a sensitive thread
Hopefully one day society will view spoilerphobia in the same light as homophobia.

Until then, stay vigilant!
Lmao. The title of this thread is an up front spoiler that relates a scene (many of us are unaware of) to a crime that many of us are unaware of.

On an enthusiast forum it seems reasonable to hide the spoiler behind a warning.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,682
I mean, all that it spoils is that the scene exists. Doesn't really go into detail about it, and apparently it's the first scene in the movie.

It's not that big of a deal. I'm happy I now have the context that it's based off a real life event when I see it this weekend.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
I was always so affected by that part in the book. Considering the brutality of what occurred can some of you muster up something of depth in response besides "spoilers omg". Christ.
 

teacup

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
686
It's the opening scene and it's relevant discussion especially in today's climate. No fucking way should we let a few precious nerds worrying about spoilers stop us discussing the very real issues of hatred against LGBTQ people in society.
 
OP
OP
CDX

CDX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,476
Thanks for the spoilers. Seeing the movie tomorrow night.

Yeah I'm aware this is probably an old crime and it's clearly an old book.. but these are spoilers.

My title only describes it as the gay-bashing scene, and the nytimes quote in my OP only has a brief 1 sentence description of scene. Beyond that, from my OP no-one would have any idea how or what exactly is depicted in the book or movie.

Everything else is in my post is about the real life events.

If just knowing a type of gay-bashing scene exists in the movie is too much of a spoiler for you, I don't know how it'd be possible to discuss the real life events without such a minor spoiler, if you can even call it that.
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,269
Unbelievably cruel. Going by that Wikipedia article, it sounds as though his murderers are remorseful. Jim Baines has spent time speaking about tolerance to schools and even addressed the Main legislature in support of a bill to ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
It's the opening scene and it's relevant discussion especially in today's climate. No fucking way should we let a few precious nerds worrying about spoilers stop us discussing the very real issues of hatred against LGBTQ people in society.

Too late , people already trying to hijack the thread to complain and be indignant about spoilerzzzz because that's that's important here. The absolute immaturity smh
 

SeriousCow

Member
Aug 29, 2019
68
Melbourne, Australia
See how this doesn't apply to this thread, because we weren't given the option of not looking, since it was in the title?
His tweet was in reference to him spoiling a GoT moment which he also didn't give his audience a chance of not looking at.

Either way, this is a petty spoiler. First scene of the movie and it's pretty obvious what's going to happen while watching it.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
People complaining about spoilers need to get a grip and maybe think about what the subject matter of the thread is before they start acting like victims

This scene was really hard to read in the book, it's going to be even harder to see it on the screen now after reading this.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
I mean, all that it spoils is that the scene exists. Doesn't really go into detail about it, and apparently it's the first scene in the movie.

It's not that big of a deal. I'm happy I now have the context that it's based off a real life event when I see it this weekend.
And the book isn't exactly an unknown quantity. All this does is give advance weight to a scene that some people might just forget happened a day after watching
 

teacup

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
686
Unbelievably cruel. Going by that Wikipedia article, it sounds as though his murderers are remorseful. Jim Baines has spent time speaking about tolerance to schools and even addressed the Main legislature in support of a bill to ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Good on him. I mean horrible crime obviously but did his time- try to not let the same mistakes happen again- educate people to be better than he was. You can't really ask for more after the fact, and I'd say many wouldn't make this change.
 

Herr Starr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,220
Norway


This is ironic coming from the author who just can't help himself from integrating actual spoilers within his own stories. It's my biggest pet peeve with Stephen King's writing, honestly. He just loves starting chapters with stuff like "And then he woke up for the last time in his life," which lessens the impact of coming events enormously. You can't look away from spoilers like that.
 

jambo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
714
I had a family member who came out and had to endure a lot of awful stuff in the 70s and 80s. I only ever heard tiny snippets, but they were bad enough.

Even though things started to look a hell of a lot better in the late 2000s and especially 2010s, there has still been a lot of issues. The referendums in various countries to legalise gay marriage and LGBTQI rights also bring up a lot of awful stuff when you have people against the issues plastering horrible messages in newspapers and posters all around major cities.

It's pretty shocking to hear that people would desecrate the memorial in 2011 =\

My title only describes it as the gay-bashing scene, and the nytimes quote in my OP only has a brief 1 sentence description of scene. Beyond that, from my OP no-one would have any idea how or what exactly is depicted in the book or movie.

Everything else is in my post is about the real life events.

If just knowing a type of gay-bashing scene exists in the movie is too much of a spoiler for you, I don't know how it'd be possible to discuss the real life events without such a minor spoiler, if you can even call it that.

It doesn't matter, posting multiple times about "Spoilerz!" is more important than discussing the topic.
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,383
I don't get how knowing a hate crime is going to occur affects your enjoyment of the movie
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
First replies are complaining about spoilers hahahaha never change era

I forgot about this scene though, gonna be really hard to watch in the movie if they do it well
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,416
Lmao. The title of this thread is an up front spoiler that relates a scene (many of us are unaware of) to a crime that many of us are unaware of.

On an enthusiast forum it seems reasonable to hide the spoiler behind a warning.
No, it's not reasonable! This man was actually murdered, it is completely unreasonable to hide his story, a real life event, behind a fucking spoiler tag. He deserves to be remembered and to have his story told and if that means spoiling one scene of a movie then so be it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,500
Bandung Indonesia
The heck are people getting mad about in here, are you people seriously trying to be angry at something so trivial, especially compared to the weight of the actual event?

Plus, the scene is happening at the first minutes of the movie. Extremely trivial. Can't believe some of you, your priorities are so whacked.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,214
This part of the book was always incredibly tough to read because it felt so real. Had no idea it was actually based on real events. That is messed up.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
Man, knowing the premise of the opening scene of a movie is very inconvenient for me and will affect my enjoyment of it. Almost as much as being murdered in a hate crime would affect my enjoyment of being alive.
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,106
Didn't expect that scene to be in the movie.
I perfectly remember it from the book, didn't know it was based on a true story.
Sickening.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,231
Didn't know about Charlie Howard and likely wouldn't have had it not been for the thread's title. So people crying about spoilers need to grow up, this is more important than you.
 

Jon_Sama

Member
Aug 19, 2018
618
itt we have people more concerned about having their entertainment spoiled than the topic at hand..
Try to tell me spoiler culture isnt garbage
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
31,965
I'm far toward the sensitive end on spoilers but how is the knowledge that there's a scene where someone bashes gay people in it spoiling anything about the movie IT Pt.2?

I despise title spoilers for actually spoiling Easter Eggs, twists, plot moments and the like but this - the title - is literally just telling people there's a scene where a gay person is harassed.