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The History of Dragon Age 2 by GVMERS
- Thread starter Tizoc
- Start date
GVMERS produce some great videos. Never played a Dragon Age game but I'll still watch this.
Thanks for the link.
Thanks for the link.
Dragon Age 2 has in retrospect become a sort of lightning rod for me as a pivotal milestone for when I really fell out of favor with the AAA side of the industry and my purchasing habits took a nosedive until the indie market grew enough to fill that void. I was hyped as hell for DA2 before it had been formally announced given that this was a time of extreme drought in the CRPG space. When it was finally announced and the first bits of info and media trickled out, I promptly said "fuck this" and never looked back.
The game was obviously rushed and something of a technical and artistic mess as a result, but the characters and story and absolutely worth putting up with everything else to experience. I liked the game a great deal more when I replayed DA:O and DA2 leading up to the release of DA3, and I rarely enjoy games as much the second time around.
For a game that was built in less than 2 years it's good.
And then you have Andromeda and Anthem with 12 years of development and they are bad.
And then you have Andromeda and Anthem with 12 years of development and they are bad.
The game's got issues, sure, but if what you're coming to a Bioware game for is the personal interaction with your squad, it's right up there among their best.
I love DA2 unreservedly. Stuff like "repetitive level design" is completely off of my radar when it comes to what makes a Bioware RPG compelling.
I love DA2 unreservedly. Stuff like "repetitive level design" is completely off of my radar when it comes to what makes a Bioware RPG compelling.
Like, the fact that it was a rush job was kinda beside the whole point for me. The radical changes to the combat, character creation, dialogue etc and specifically their justification for it (gotta make it more cinematic!) left me extremly disillusioned with where the RPG genre and industry at large were heading, and that was enough for me to write off BioWare entirely from that point on.
Just finished watching this. Solid video and overview. I always liked DA2 despite its various issues. It was a good game with some unfortunate baggage, like the name, and a number of shortcomings that I think got blown way out of proportion. The hyperbole and vitriol surrounding everything BioWare really went into overdrive with this game and never let up thanks to both continued overreactions as well as several legitimate fuck ups by BioWare/EA.
I really hope with all the the shit that's happened with Andromeda, Anthem and the revelations about their work culture that they'll both organizationally and design wise find their way again with DA4. Inquisition was again a game that got needlessly screwed around with due to Corp priorities and had a lot of needless bloat included that harmed the game. Which at its core still had some really great character writing and interactions you just can't find elsewhere. I would love for DA4 to be a back to basics, focus on what the series and studio does best kind of game and not another attempt at breaking the mold while also trying to juggle corporate priorities that no doubt will never go away. Hopefully the game is too far out for them to think about making it cross-gen again.
I really hope with all the the shit that's happened with Andromeda, Anthem and the revelations about their work culture that they'll both organizationally and design wise find their way again with DA4. Inquisition was again a game that got needlessly screwed around with due to Corp priorities and had a lot of needless bloat included that harmed the game. Which at its core still had some really great character writing and interactions you just can't find elsewhere. I would love for DA4 to be a back to basics, focus on what the series and studio does best kind of game and not another attempt at breaking the mold while also trying to juggle corporate priorities that no doubt will never go away. Hopefully the game is too far out for them to think about making it cross-gen again.
There are good ideas somewhere in Dragon Age 2, but it's just really poorly executed. The recycling of whole locales being the worst aspect.
I'd love for open-worlds to concentrate on the passage of time within a single city/location, however. Let's say, changes/decisions you make versus what happens within years/a decade. First project to embrace not the expanse of its world but the changing nature of it over time, will get a 'wow' from me.
I'd love for open-worlds to concentrate on the passage of time within a single city/location, however. Let's say, changes/decisions you make versus what happens within years/a decade. First project to embrace not the expanse of its world but the changing nature of it over time, will get a 'wow' from me.
It was the first time that I really, truly, saw the games industry as a business first. It also came out at the time I was going to school for Accounting, and it all started to click. It's probably why I have such a distaste for the game.
I recently played through all of the Dragon Age games right after Anthem came out(a friend and I were going to get it, but after the Beta both decided it wasn't going to go well), and I got 2 or 3 hours into 2 and just skipped straight to Inquisition. I think it's a complete dumpster fire of a game, and the rush job is so evident.
A very good video. I remember being very excited for the title. I wasn't really as disappointed as sme of the more hardcore fans as at the time, the more actiony approach appealed to me. I was disappointed by the reuse of locations though.
Several areas in RDR2's map evolved overtime.
Red Dead Redemption 2 never ceases to amaze in its level of detail. Didn't even realise most of these changes.
I felt it had by far the worst characters in a modern Bioware game. There was the elf that hated mages that joined you anyway if you were a mage and lived the 10 years period in a destroyed house the whole time. Or the other elf that keeps repairing an evil mirror even if you tell her not too which lead to some demon coming out and having to kill her clan. There was also a pirate chick that gives lessons to everyone about being free and living how they want and yet she's causing the Qunari blockade and the riots in town by stealing their holy book or whatever. The DLC character was basically an holier than thou jerk that complains about everything you do and chastise you when you kill people yet require you to murder people to join you.
Awful cast.
I always thought it was interesting that the hero characters in DA 2 weren't particularly good people and all had their selfish reasons for doing the things they do. And that depending on your relationship with them affected their decisions. DA2 has a very intimate story and mostly everyone involved feels like their own person instead of just along for the ride with the player.
Merrill was irritatingly committed to her tragic path, but that was clearly the intent of her arc. Agreed that I wasn't overwhelmed by that story. The fact that everything else, right down to the blockade and Anders' role in the Mage / Templar War was so darned personal helped set the game apart from the usual "save the world" tropes. Isabela made for a wonderful romance, and Varric became my favorite companion of the series with his dual role narrating the game and introducing us to a very different role for Leliana in the game. It took risks, not all of which paid off, but I appreciated what they were going for however flawed the result may have been.
The combat is pretty frickin horrible on PC, especially after having played Original Sin 2 and other isometric RPGs with proper combat.
Like, as frustrating as it is for hardcore RP from the player's perspective, the characters not outright constantly listening to players but instead doing their own thing and reacting to situations based on our influence on them made them feel much more real. In a lot of RPGs with heavy emphasis on choice and dialogue, characters often make decisions based on what you tell them to do instead of making decisions on their own, and thus it's very rare to see companion characters make self destructive decisions unless the player specifically tells them to make a self destructive decision. At the best of times it made exchanges feel much more like actual convos despite it very obviously being an RPG with easily trackable cause and effect dialogue responses.
It wasn't repetitive, it was literally the same four dungeons recycled throughout the entire game, lol. I agree though, it's still great in all of the most important ways. Hawke is awesome and the idea of seeing a character and a city grow over the course of years was really cool.
To be honest, most of my fav characters in BioWare games are ones that make their own decisions outside the player character, so I love that about this game - I also like being a protag that's not able to fix everything, where some problems are too big to fix. Hawke is a great character for that and feels very real.
Yep, I agree. And a story with characters that progress over a decade. The game had some great elements but was rushed by EA into fewer than 2 years of dev time. In a way it's amazing it wasn't in worse shape.
Also, female Hawke is the same actress who voiced Ciri, so she's a full on badass. Especially when you follow the aggressive tone options. That was another neat touch actually - your dialogue choices altered your character's tone for the base dialogue you didn't have control over. Controversial, but I loved it for what it was.
Some great companions too! Aveline will always be one of Bioware's best. Fenris is voiced by Gideon Emery (Balthier from FFXII) so he's automatically awesome. Varric has become something of a series staple. It's just a shame so many companions were player-sexual imo. That point of contention often clouds over the well written characters.
A very good 7-ish game. It is definitely bogged down by the repeated areas and bland level aesthetics but the story had a lot of interesting development. It ultimately doesn't soar into something truly great but you could feel the potential and it's possible to get emotionally attatched to the journey. Very underrated imo.
The concept of a city changing over a decade, as the power balance in a city flooded with refugees from the first game and torn apart by civil conflict between powerful fantasy factions shifts towards disaster, is a great one. They just didn't have time to do it justice, and the city doesn't change enough.
However, the party members are my favourite of any BioWare game. Aveline is great. She's got her own life, interests, relationships and responsibilities that only cross over with your vigilante-dilettante at natural points. She doesn't exist as yet another love interest that is five gifts away from a relationship. She asks you to stay out of trouble or asks you for help as appropriate, but ultimately gradually relies on you more if you prove reliable, exchanging that loyalty for backing you even if you don't see eye to eye.
I like companions like that. Varric too, as I could imagine the three of them having a drink together after 'work'.
Not the best RPG I've ever played, not even my favourite BioWare one (cast aside), but I enjoyed it enough to play it through a couple of times over the years, which is more than I can say for a lot of bloated RPGs that outstayed their welcome despite having far less overt flaws.
However, the party members are my favourite of any BioWare game. Aveline is great. She's got her own life, interests, relationships and responsibilities that only cross over with your vigilante-dilettante at natural points. She doesn't exist as yet another love interest that is five gifts away from a relationship. She asks you to stay out of trouble or asks you for help as appropriate, but ultimately gradually relies on you more if you prove reliable, exchanging that loyalty for backing you even if you don't see eye to eye.
I like companions like that. Varric too, as I could imagine the three of them having a drink together after 'work'.
Not the best RPG I've ever played, not even my favourite BioWare one (cast aside), but I enjoyed it enough to play it through a couple of times over the years, which is more than I can say for a lot of bloated RPGs that outstayed their welcome despite having far less overt flaws.
Great game, shame it didnt get more time. The writing and sarcastic hawke are highlights of the dragon age series.
I think the writing is generally pretty poor for these characters. Anders in particular; felt like they sucked all the depth and nuance out of that character in favor of something that felt like a fan-fiction level portrayal, and largely just to make him a character that could drive the plot along.
And it has one of the worst lines in any video game I've ever played, and all at the culmination of what should have been an important character moment; "I like big boats, I cannot lie."
I'll never understand people who think this game did a good job with its characters and writing.
Admittedly I hadn't really payed much attention to the story of the first game's expansion so I didn't really pay much attention to Anders. I did like his role in 2, as it was quite tragic and his melodrama was quite self aware. I like to think that's what drove people to like DA2's writing, is the tone. The first game tried to be a much grittier LoR. But the best shorthand comparison I can make with the tone of the second is more of a comic book tone and that absolutely seemed intentional. So even though there were serious emotional moments, the tone just wasn't as serious as the original.
Yeah, this is exactly what DA2 should have done. I'll never forget the fact you could hear the exact same ambient dialogue after the time skip- or the fact Fenris never cleaned his house.
I think the other big issue with the setting is they didn't let you interact with the city as a city. Like, apparently the city was just saturated top to bottom with blood mages and homicidally violent criminals. Its telling that all you could do at night was run around and kill people (so, so many people). Setting aside how disappointing the combat was, this really was the game to let you interact with the world in a non-violent way and yet you almost never got that option.
The same issue applies to the game's central conflicts. Like Hawke could be a mage dating Anders, and yet Hawke would never interact with the mage underground. Hawke's sister could be in the circle or brother could be in the templars, yet you never learned about their organizations beyond their leaders. All you did was kill whoever fell out of thin air in front of you.
Amazing, and amazingly flawed, game. Some great characters in an interesting plot, and Kirkwall had a lot of potential. A really substantial DLC like Awakening could have added a lot of needed variety, but they even cut that corner too. Probably needed another 12 months in the oven.
Don't remember much about the story and characters other than myself not enjoying it and at worst having some serious eye rolls from time to time at the melodrama. I really didn't like it and it's a shame the city ends up being actually fairly small sections.
What I do remember was some dumbfoundingly bad story elements leading up the the finale. The last few story beats are dreadful and wrote the whole series further into a hole than Dragon Age Origins did. The whole Mage problem was a narrative mistep. It was written as a serious matter but not handled well in any of the games gameplay and story wise. The only place it works is those entertaining walls of text that sometimes feel disconnected from the game.
What I do remember was some dumbfoundingly bad story elements leading up the the finale. The last few story beats are dreadful and wrote the whole series further into a hole than Dragon Age Origins did. The whole Mage problem was a narrative mistep. It was written as a serious matter but not handled well in any of the games gameplay and story wise. The only place it works is those entertaining walls of text that sometimes feel disconnected from the game.
The dynamics between the player character and the party is one of the best details of this game. It is one of the only games to really classic Bioware messiah protagonist trope. I would have loved to see what this game could have been if it hadn't been rushed. If this game had been well made maybe we wouldn't see modern Bioware push for their open worldish style that they've been using since Inquisition.
Absolutely. Is it my favorite game? No, but the characters are damn good.
For sure, my favourite playthrough involved going through every dialogue using only sarcastic responses, even where it's very inappropriate (eg with The Viscount and his son). The game always felt quite grim to me, even when things were going good; it was nice to have Hawke provide some much needed levity throughout, especially with Aveline playing the straight man to Hawke's wise guy antics.
Also, pretty big thing, I remember being incredibly shocked by
. As it genuinely comes out of nowhere.
the death of Hawke's mother
The characters are ok (Bethany, Sebastian and Anders all suck and Merill's cutscenes launched out of order so it spoiled her storyline and made all of your choices inconsequential) but the story is straight doodoo.
Act 3 especially is just so so bad.
Anyway it was clearly an EA rush job and the team showed they still have it with Inquisition + the DLC.
And then
Frankenhawke
Really I could write an essay on why the game is so bad lol.
Inquisition has the best cast in a DA game. Only stinker is Cole and even he is... unique. They have 8(!) other characters who are all amazing in pretty much every way.
Origins has Oghren who doesn't get good until Awakening, Wynne who's boring, Zevran who's a cliche and a backstabbing little bitch and an actual dog. Alistair and Morrigan are both S tier though and Leliana and Sten are pretty good.
I don't remember the Awakening cast that well but I remember thinking they were all pretty good with the exception of the Keeper, but I only played through it like twice.
Origins has Oghren who doesn't get good until Awakening, Wynne who's boring, Zevran who's a cliche and a backstabbing little bitch and an actual dog. Alistair and Morrigan are both S tier though and Leliana and Sten are pretty good.
I don't remember the Awakening cast that well but I remember thinking they were all pretty good with the exception of the Keeper, but I only played through it like twice.
In fantasy series where mages frequently die during graduation because some of them listen to spooky ghosts who promise them everything as a result look like this:
A mage doing that is absolutely within the realm of possibility. It's especially effective if your Hawke personality leaned into sarcasm, not taking much seriously and then bam, genuine emotion and shock.
I'm not saying it was unexpected or crazy, just executed really really poorly.In fantasy series where mages frequently die during graduation because some of them listen to spooky ghosts who promise them everything as a result look like this:
A mage doing that is absolutely within the realm of possibility.
Yeah it wasn't big or varied or changed very much at all across the timespan.
It's funny because with auto-attack on the combat is actually pretty similar to Origins with more interesting skill trees.... the issue is the camera and controls on PC were pretty terrible and there was only one reliable mage character (and even then he can disappear depending on your choices). Plus the complete lack of enemy variety, encounter design, interesting dungeons and the mid-air spawning enemies.
Oh and all the animations feel like they're missing half of their frames.
I agree with all of this. I love the game, even with the repetitive dungeons. As a big fan of DA:O and DA2, I really was let down by DA3.