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The hardest thing about learning a fighting game is __________________
- Thread starter Jaded Alyx
- Start date
Yep, I pretty much gave up since the 90s and probably wont ever touch a game that features that.
Utilizing practice mode to gain matchup knowledge against other characters is really difficult. I'd also say figuring out how to use normals and special moves in midrange/neutral is hard if you don't have experience in other fighting games, especially if you're trying to do it on the fly.
Combos and baseline execution are straightforward but most people think you need like a 95% hit rate on them to play a FG when that's not even close to the case.
Combos and baseline execution are straightforward but most people think you need like a 95% hit rate on them to play a FG when that's not even close to the case.
To be fair, using the button to block in GBVS isn't required since blocking can still be done normally (the only other use for it is for doing spot dodges and rolls, no idea if that's a deal breaker though).
For me it's knowing when to hit back. Some fighting games have such ridiculous block strings that lead into all sorts of traps. Knowing every character and when it's safe to stop blocking and fight back can be tough.
The big things that prevent me from ever being good at fighting games:
- Matchup knowledge. I just don't have the brain capacity to remember gameplans for every fighter, their movesets, what is safe to counter or not, their wake-up options, etc. At best I'll be able to learn the really commonly picked characters and consistently do well against other players of my level who use them, but I've never been able to store knowledge of more than 15% of a roster and usually just end up trying to wing it.
- Reaction times. The big one for me, my reactions are terrible. I can't anti-air unless I'm 100% expecting it, even if my character's best anti-air option is just a normal button. I can't react to throws for shit, and on the occasions where the opponent learns this it's pretty much a guaranteed loss. I simply can't think quick enough in the heat of a fight to react to anything the opponent is doing. My best option is always to lay on pressure with mix-ups and hope for the best.
- I'm too predictable. I can learn all kinds of things in training, and can practice like hell to lock the execution into my muscle memory. But when it comes to actual matches so much of my mental processes are taken up with trying to read the fight and react to the opponent that all of that goes out of the window and I'm incapable of anything but the same 2 or 3 setups.
- Matchup knowledge. I just don't have the brain capacity to remember gameplans for every fighter, their movesets, what is safe to counter or not, their wake-up options, etc. At best I'll be able to learn the really commonly picked characters and consistently do well against other players of my level who use them, but I've never been able to store knowledge of more than 15% of a roster and usually just end up trying to wing it.
- Reaction times. The big one for me, my reactions are terrible. I can't anti-air unless I'm 100% expecting it, even if my character's best anti-air option is just a normal button. I can't react to throws for shit, and on the occasions where the opponent learns this it's pretty much a guaranteed loss. I simply can't think quick enough in the heat of a fight to react to anything the opponent is doing. My best option is always to lay on pressure with mix-ups and hope for the best.
- I'm too predictable. I can learn all kinds of things in training, and can practice like hell to lock the execution into my muscle memory. But when it comes to actual matches so much of my mental processes are taken up with trying to read the fight and react to the opponent that all of that goes out of the window and I'm incapable of anything but the same 2 or 3 setups.
Frame data/frame traps, knowing when its a bait or finding gaps. Even the most basic fighting games people hit me when I think I have a clear opening and get sent back to the lab.
For me it's having enough time to grind certain things out, and sometimes for me it's trying to balance doing that and trying to adapt to new patches (becomes a question like, do I stick with my current character, or do I try to use my limited time to try this other character that is more suited for the current meta).
Doesn't help that most JPN fighting games have shit netcode and/or online features so just jumping into games to learn x or y as fast as possible is more difficult than it should be.
Doesn't help that most JPN fighting games have shit netcode and/or online features so just jumping into games to learn x or y as fast as possible is more difficult than it should be.
Honestly? Learning how to use normals properly.
It's too easy to fall into a blackhole of special attack spamming when normals should also be used for the moment to moment decisions.
I struggle so much with this because I mostly play with AI and I don't lab more defensive application of normals since I have to input the CPU.
Also that, learning the defensive approach. Since you will have to experiment on what to do yourself. There isn't really any feedback that you are making the best or even the correct instinctive decision.
Like I know I should block, but I rarely understand that I should be crouch blocking or stand blocking.
I know I can use the special DP or shoryuken but there may be a normal that might better serve the situation and easier to do.
The next difficult step is to know how to convert or punish correctly. I know there are punish scenarios but to really know when that is and what to do once you're in that moment is currently impossible.
Decent combos can be learned especially on a non moving training dummy but in a more human scenario, its doesn't come naturally, not knowing when to actually use them.
It's too easy to fall into a blackhole of special attack spamming when normals should also be used for the moment to moment decisions.
I struggle so much with this because I mostly play with AI and I don't lab more defensive application of normals since I have to input the CPU.
Also that, learning the defensive approach. Since you will have to experiment on what to do yourself. There isn't really any feedback that you are making the best or even the correct instinctive decision.
Like I know I should block, but I rarely understand that I should be crouch blocking or stand blocking.
I know I can use the special DP or shoryuken but there may be a normal that might better serve the situation and easier to do.
The next difficult step is to know how to convert or punish correctly. I know there are punish scenarios but to really know when that is and what to do once you're in that moment is currently impossible.
Decent combos can be learned especially on a non moving training dummy but in a more human scenario, its doesn't come naturally, not knowing when to actually use them.
Inputs, but mainly impatiently mashing a button more than once thinking it will make something go faster. Combos have always been a living hell to try to understand, and I never understand how people just do them the moment they pick up the game.
Recently when Persona 4 Arena Ultimax came out, I tried to do the "challenge" mode to try to learn combos or advanced moves, and there was one for Mitsuru that was something like 2C > Charge back to forward C. I kept trying to do it as it said and absolutely could not get it. I watched the demonstration many times and didn't understand how they instantly got the charge move out after the crouching hit. I asked some friends and in the OT about it here. Apparently what you're really supposed to do is hold down and back while doing the crouch part, and then forward right after the crouch hit. I would have never figured that out on my own.
It's traditional fighting games I have so much trouble with, and they feel so stiff to control and trying to do anything just looks like I am panicking and I feel like I literally do better mashing buttons than actually trying to play properly. Smash on the other hand, I totally get and it makes perfect sense to me.
Recently when Persona 4 Arena Ultimax came out, I tried to do the "challenge" mode to try to learn combos or advanced moves, and there was one for Mitsuru that was something like 2C > Charge back to forward C. I kept trying to do it as it said and absolutely could not get it. I watched the demonstration many times and didn't understand how they instantly got the charge move out after the crouching hit. I asked some friends and in the OT about it here. Apparently what you're really supposed to do is hold down and back while doing the crouch part, and then forward right after the crouch hit. I would have never figured that out on my own.
It's traditional fighting games I have so much trouble with, and they feel so stiff to control and trying to do anything just looks like I am panicking and I feel like I literally do better mashing buttons than actually trying to play properly. Smash on the other hand, I totally get and it makes perfect sense to me.
Integrating what I practice in training mode into actual matches. Not landing combos, I mean I don't even attempt things when I know I should.
Having no friends that also play fighting games. My own wife started learning to try to appease me, but she gave up. Pathetic.
OP
OP
Some games like Tekken and MK11 play sounds when you're meant to press the buttons when you watch the CPU demo the move.
Time the inputs. Is impossible for me. I can usually execute motions for special moves, but for the life of me I can't time more than 3 moves together at best and execute proper combos. That's why my favourite fighting games are the ones from the early Capcom and SNK era, which were way less combo oriented than the post KOF era games (I'd say I can go as far as SSF2 and FFS respectively)
My answer will depend on the level of the player
- at low level at SFV, I would say patience. Most of the mistakes are made because lower level players are just rushing. You can climb pretty high with just a punishing game
- at higher level, matchup knowledge which translate into being ready to do what's the best in any situation
- at low level at SFV, I would say patience. Most of the mistakes are made because lower level players are just rushing. You can climb pretty high with just a punishing game
- at higher level, matchup knowledge which translate into being ready to do what's the best in any situation
I struggle to get much out of watching replays. I have little idea what I'm supposed to be looking for. Seeing the moment I got blown up doesn't tell me what I could have done instead. All I can really spot is when I threw out something risky because of lack of patience or desperation but I don't need the replay to tell me that was a mistake.
The 'Z movement' was more just weird to visually draw as a single icon, because it just means forward, down, down-forward. More games have been allowing for lenient inputs like 6236 (using numpad visualization) instead of just 623.
For veteran like me, anytime I play a new fighting game it's movement and spacing.
When i was new casual scrub, directional input were hard, DP took my months to learn in the arcades, playing Guile or Zangief was easier than learning Ken/Ryu..
When i was new casual scrub, directional input were hard, DP took my months to learn in the arcades, playing Guile or Zangief was easier than learning Ken/Ryu..
I know what I'm supposed to do, it's actually doing that never works
Guilty Gear Strive seems extremely non-lenient for it, SF4 (the last and only other FG I've played more than 5 minutes before GGS) seemed more easy in that regard.
Yeah, this is one of the biggest ones I think, for beginners that have played a few fighters before, casually.
Resisting the urge to jump is really hard, and learning how to get in without jumping is extremely important.
When people start out playing SF, they shouldn't jump at all, not until they learn how to play without jumping in.
Getting over your own ego and realizing that if you are new you will lose, you will lose a lot, you will lose badly, it's no one's fault but your own and there is nothing you can do other than practice harder and play more to prevent that.
Everything else is secondary and common among other genres
Everything else is secondary and common among other genres
Hmmmm, first hardest thing for me I think is patience. I'm always on offense, all the time.
And I don't even think about it, I do it unconsciously, I just go in.
Several times when I'm in a losing streak and I stop to think what I'm doing wrong, 90% of the time is that I'm always going in, face first
Then I switch gears, step back and let the opponent make the mistakes and look at that, I win lol
Second thing is persistance to keep improving. Since I lack this, I have never evolved past the beginner level in any fighting game.
I love the initial discovery phase of a fighting game, learning the basic mechanics, learning a character, simple combos...
And then I hop online (and if there are enough people AND if the matchmaking is decent), I get paired with another beginner, everyone makes big mistakes, scrub fest all around, it's a fucking blast
But then as I slowly improve, I eventually hit a wall, I feel that I'm not improving anymore, and I can't see a path for improvement, and it's usually then that I quit a fighting game.
I know that at this stage I should dig deeper into the game, learn its intricacies, learn match-ups and whatnot, and not only that, but play the game more than ever, to really push myself to the next level... but I just go "Nah" and drop the game 😆
My most played fighting game this gen was Tekken 7, and I never got past the begginer phase because when I hit that wall, instead of digging deeper into the game and into the character, to get the detais down and push for improvement, I switch characters and start from scratch again lul. And now because of that I superficially know a bunch of characters but I am not good with any of them hue
And I don't even think about it, I do it unconsciously, I just go in.
Several times when I'm in a losing streak and I stop to think what I'm doing wrong, 90% of the time is that I'm always going in, face first
Then I switch gears, step back and let the opponent make the mistakes and look at that, I win lol
Second thing is persistance to keep improving. Since I lack this, I have never evolved past the beginner level in any fighting game.
I love the initial discovery phase of a fighting game, learning the basic mechanics, learning a character, simple combos...
And then I hop online (and if there are enough people AND if the matchmaking is decent), I get paired with another beginner, everyone makes big mistakes, scrub fest all around, it's a fucking blast
But then as I slowly improve, I eventually hit a wall, I feel that I'm not improving anymore, and I can't see a path for improvement, and it's usually then that I quit a fighting game.
I know that at this stage I should dig deeper into the game, learn its intricacies, learn match-ups and whatnot, and not only that, but play the game more than ever, to really push myself to the next level... but I just go "Nah" and drop the game 😆
My most played fighting game this gen was Tekken 7, and I never got past the begginer phase because when I hit that wall, instead of digging deeper into the game and into the character, to get the detais down and push for improvement, I switch characters and start from scratch again lul. And now because of that I superficially know a bunch of characters but I am not good with any of them hue
Finding anyone willing to learn with me. Going online is just a sad depressing experience before I'm comfortable with a game.
But when I played fighting games, none of my friends did. They wouldn't want to play more than a few rounds :/
But when I played fighting games, none of my friends did. They wouldn't want to play more than a few rounds :/
Basically anything for me. I tried to get into playing SFV online and just gave up after about two months. One of the most frustrating gaming experiences I've ever had.
Mostly learning the matchups. Learning your own character's kit already takes time, but then every new character you face has all of their own things that you need to learn with your face. Like, if they do this blockstring, then you can't mash out except at this *one* very specific point, or if you do this then you can only answer it in a certain way or else you'll eat tons of damage. It's a long, painful process that needs to be repeated for every character in the roster.
It's made worse by the fact that sometimes those answers you learn have an execution barrier to them too, so eventually you'll know what you need to do, but you can still fuck it up.
It's made worse by the fact that sometimes those answers you learn have an execution barrier to them too, so eventually you'll know what you need to do, but you can still fuck it up.
OP
OP
Mmhm, I remember losing something like 16 games in a row when I started with DBFZ but I stuck with it and by the end of my time with the game, I had a 76% win rate.
Yeah. I'm not a big fighting game person, last one I got was the street fighter that launched with 3ds.
I got destroyed forever, but eventually got decent and had a lot of fun!
I'd say the issue for most people is the accountability that fighting games forces upon you. FGs are the Golf and Tennis of gaming, in that when you lose there is no team that lost alongside you to shoulder some of that failure.
Add in the time investment of input perfection, matchups, frame data if we're really seeking elite status... Most just aren't built for the insanely brutal feedback loop of the fighting game genre, where a dozen BODYBAG losses can happen so fast you feel like you didn't even have time to reflect on how to improve. One has to be of an analytical mind that is constantly weeding out flaws in execution.
It takes a certain type. That is either okay, to sell to and retain x - y niche or the major fighting game houses need to revolutionize the accessibility of the genre. It's almost the Souls discussion; can they lower the bar without losing the depth the veterans don't want to lose?
Add in the time investment of input perfection, matchups, frame data if we're really seeking elite status... Most just aren't built for the insanely brutal feedback loop of the fighting game genre, where a dozen BODYBAG losses can happen so fast you feel like you didn't even have time to reflect on how to improve. One has to be of an analytical mind that is constantly weeding out flaws in execution.
It takes a certain type. That is either okay, to sell to and retain x - y niche or the major fighting game houses need to revolutionize the accessibility of the genre. It's almost the Souls discussion; can they lower the bar without losing the depth the veterans don't want to lose?
Yeah, I always appreciate that feature. It helps tremendously.
Not having a dominant side of the the arena.
Feels like doing everything left handed.
I rarely fight against people online because it always feels like the people that play a lot and are good at it, don't really enjoy the game and make the rounds as short and not-fun as possible, as they give you no second to even do anything. And if that isn't it it's their network connection making matches unplayable.,
Feels like doing everything left handed.
I rarely fight against people online because it always feels like the people that play a lot and are good at it, don't really enjoy the game and make the rounds as short and not-fun as possible, as they give you no second to even do anything. And if that isn't it it's their network connection making matches unplayable.,
Getting over my own anxiety that every player I'll ever play will be infinitely better than me so I end up just booting up another game
As someone that is very casual, it's always the actual execution barrier of learning motion inputs. I can't rightfully call them unresponsive, because they aren't obviously if people are pulling them off consistently, but there's something inherently unintuitive to my brain about executing a motion on a stick and then pressing a button to use an attack, as opposed to holding a direction and pressing a button, or pressing a button at the same time as an input.
I like the idea of being good at fighting games, but I feel like the barrier to entry is just so high if you don't have someone of a similar skill level to bounce off of, and playing against bots or playing in practice mode just isn't as fun.
I like the idea of being good at fighting games, but I feel like the barrier to entry is just so high if you don't have someone of a similar skill level to bounce off of, and playing against bots or playing in practice mode just isn't as fun.
One of the reasons Im not giving sfv another go since its apparently a good game now is the sheer amount combination of roster size plus 2 vtriggers and 2 vskill to learn for each character.
OP
OP
I'm pretty sure a total beginner can make it to at least Silver by doing nothing but anti-airs, and just blocking and then punishing sweeps and random DPs. Nothing else. One day I might make a thread about this.
I feel like that's just dependent on who they face, in all honesty. Sure it'll happen eventually, but you're almost guaranteed to get a bunch of smurf accounts on the way there who'll just blow that strategy up.
Against actual beginners/people who genuinely deserve to be in those ranks it'll absolutely work though. That being said though, blocking isn't really something a beginner can just pick up imo. Punishing random stuff and anti-airs is whatever, but blocking high-low mixups and whatever is definitely out of total beginner range.
The only way to test the theory though is to get an actual "so do I press X to jump?' beginner and let them try it.