The Handmaid's Tale Season 4 | OT | Now streaming on Hulu

[Chucker]

Yeah, that's the thing. Luke et al have carved out a life in Canada while June was still fighting for her life on a daily basis. You could tell when she didn't want to be left alone with him after the hotel. She's understandably broken, and I don't think even having Hannah will save the relationship.

The rape felt like June attempting to get some sort of normalcy after finally being able to lash out at one of her captors.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I really liked the latest episode. While it didn't move the plot much, it had some genuine moments and was emotionally honest for the most part.

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Agreed. The last two episodes have been quite good. A tad plot hole-y, but the most emotionally resonant the show has been in a long time.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Glad i stuck around, last two episodes have been great.

 

[Soap]

With Amazon's potential acquisition of MGM, some folks are speculating that The Handsmaid Tale could move from Hulu to Amazon Prime Video. What's everybody's thoughts on that?

Click to shrink...

It's already on prime in some capacity in the U.K., so I wouldn't be shocked if it happened on markets where Hulu isn't a thing.

 

[Ninjadom]

June has been through a lot in this season already…

• Shot (end of Season 3)
• Tortured including being waterboarded
• Almost hit by a train
• Almost drowned in milk
• Almost caught hypothermia in milk carriage
• Almost sexually abused
• Bombed from an aerial strike.

 

[A Path Finder]

She has also seen the loss of many friends and people she want wanted to protect has died, indirectly or directly because of her actions (never her fault at all though of course).

There is a lot to unpack there.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

June meeting up with the other Gilead survivors -- after seeing that, I got the need to write some fanfiction where the other handmaid friends survived and came along with her. RIP Alma and Co.

 

[Shrikey]

This latest episode was rough. Like, Handmaid's Tale has always been about suffering. And while I never had a problem with it being gratuitous (which, certainly, there is a case to be made for), this episode was just... dayum.

Like, they've upped the ante on the shit they put June through throughout the series, but the way they're handling her escape/freedom is just soul crushing. While I do take issue with her personality change after the bombing being a tad too abrupt (though, she was literally shell shocked, so if something's gonna make her snap, that might be it), the brutal honesty and brokenness of this episode just hit so hard. O.T's performance as Luke was really impressive as well. He sold it so well.

This season is definitely on the way up.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I really hope they don't fuck up Luke in some way...dude has been such a beacon of hope in the show and I'm kinda scared of them pulling up some crazy development on him, that would push June to go completely off the deep end.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

At the end of the episode I felt like June wasn't just talking about Serena Joy - she was talking about herself as well. Run, Luke! Run!

 

[CorpseLight]

I am a very casual watcher of this series, my wife watches it regularly and I sometimes catch an episode here or there.

I saw the most recent episodes second half and Elisabeth Moss is an incredible actress.

 

[GrubChub]

I am a very casual watcher of this series, my wife watches it regularly and I sometimes catch an episode here or there.

I saw the most recent episodes second half and Elisabeth Moss is an incredible actress.

Click to shrink...

I'm in the end boat of just catching some stuff occasionally and...

Spoiler: Spoilers

June raped Luke, right? I said that to my wife and she found the thought ridiculous, but I can't help but think of the roles were reversed three would be an uproar. Granted, the entire series is based on rape. Still left me uneasy.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I'm in the end boat of just catching some stuff occasionally and...

Spoiler: Spoilers

June raped Luke, right? I said that to my wife and she found the thought ridiculous, but I can't help but think of the roles were reversed three would be an uproar. Granted, the entire series is based on rape. Still left me uneasy.

Click to shrink...

I think that's what the writers were going for yeah. At the end when June's voiceover is talking about Serena (but also herself), she says something like "she's hollow inside, she'll lie to you, rape you, etc. so run for your life" and the camera is focused on Luke when she says the word "rape".

 

[maruchan]

were do we go from here?

Spoiler: next season and book

time skip for season 5? do they go the new nook route to finish the serries i know it just got renewed for additional seasons, i can not see june going back to gilliead.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

For me it's the opposite - I can't picture June staying in Canada long term.

 

[Curler]

For me it's the opposite - I can't picture June staying in Canada long term.

Click to shrink...

"I have to go back!!" June going to pull a Jack :x

 

[Swig]

I'm in the end boat of just catching some stuff occasionally and...

Spoiler: Spoilers

June raped Luke, right? I said that to my wife and she found the thought ridiculous, but I can't help but think of the roles were reversed three would be an uproar. Granted, the entire series is based on rape. Still left me uneasy.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

I didn't take it that way. I just took it like she "took control" in that instant. Maybe because men had been in control the entire time she was in Gilead and that was her way of compensating for that lack of power the last several years. Also partially because her experiences in Gilead made her become a "take-charge" personality. I didn't get a vibe that it was meant that she was supposed to have raped him. I'd maybe have to rewatch that scene, but it didn't seem to me like Luke was not consenting.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

"I have to go back!!" June going to pull a Jack :x

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I think so too!

 

[23qwerty]

Spoiler

I didn't take it that way. I just took it like she "took control" in that instant. Maybe because men had been in control the entire time she was in Gilead and that was her way of compensating for that lack of power the last several years. Also partially because her experiences in Gilead made her become a "take-charge" personality. I didn't get a vibe that it was meant that she was supposed to have raped him. I'd maybe have to rewatch that scene, but it didn't seem to me like Luke was not consenting.

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

Yeah definitely not rape and it's pretty fucking absurd to suggest it was given the context.

 

[GrubChub]

Spoiler

Yeah definitely not rape and it's pretty fucking absurd to suggest it was given the context.

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How is it absurd to suggest it? Literally if you flipped the roles, it would 100% be considered that.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Luke literally says "no" and "wait" ...come on guys, it couldnt be any more obvious.

 

[Chucker]

How is it absurd to suggest it? Literally if you flipped the roles, it would 100% be considered that.

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Absolutely. He reached up, she put it down and he was checked clean out of it from there on as she got what she came for and left.

 

[SpaceBridge]

Luke literally says "no" and "wait" ...come on guys, it couldnt be any more obvious.

Click to shrink...

Yeah it was clearly rape because if you reversed to roles it would be rape. Impressions on the Reddit page is pretty negative as many viewers are upset the writers seem to turning June into a villain. I genuinely don't think it's that binary. I really do hope the writers take time to unpack June's traumas and PTSD, as opposed as to turning her unlikable. For the first time in the series I'm having a hard time predicting what's next as the show seems to be going into new territory. I do enjoy flawed, broken heroes in fiction.

edit: I'm not condoning rape or devaluing what damage has been done to the handmaids. But that scene clearly illustrates that the violence of Gilead has been seeded in June. We will need to see how that unfolds though. I do like Luke. I hope he ends up okay and they can salvage their marriage.

 

[Euphoria]

Me and the wife have been binging this show for weeks and are all caught up. I am of the belief that she did rape Luke.

He said "No" and "Wait" repeatedly. He reached his hand up and she held it down. He tried to tell her to wait and she covered his mouth.

He was not an equal partner in that experience and in a role reversal the act would have been called a rape as it should have stopped the moment they said "Wait".

 

[cw_sasuke]

Yeah it was clearly rape because if you reversed to roles it would be rape. Impressions on the Reddit page is pretty negative as many viewers are upset the writers seem to turning June into a villain. I genuinely don't think it's that binary. I really do hope the writers take time to unpack June's traumas and PTSD, as opposed as to turning her unlikable. For the first time in the series I'm having a hard time predicting what's next as the show seems to be going into new territory. I do enjoy flawed, broken heroes in fiction.

edit: I'm not condoning rape or devaluing what damage has been done to the handmaids. But that scene clearly illustrates that the violence of Gilead has been seeded in June. We will need to see how that unfolds though. I do like Luke. I hope he ends up okay and they can salvage their marriage.

Click to shrink...

The situation is obv. alot more nuanced and plenty of factors play a role - but the act in itself was what it was.
Its something messed up done by a person who has experienced messed up things in the past - the audience as well as Luke knows that, so we are gonna evaluate the situation a bit differently.

We are gonna have to see how it evolves and if this was a one time thing or if she will continue to act in this kind of nature.

 

[Cass_Se]

As RatskyWatsky noted, during the closing June monologue the camera focused on Luke when she said 'rape you'. That's certainly what they were going for, at the very least.

 

[23qwerty]

the context of their relationship makes it pretty clear guys. sure maybe some relationships it could be considered that. pretty fair to assume it isn't here.

perhaps my view of this differs since i am a husband of a similarly traumatized wife. that comes with a certain amount of context that helps here.

The rape scene was about power and control. Both immediate and taking some back for past transgressions. She was furious after meeting with Serena and she took it out on Luke. She was, literally, taking power back. Controlling what she could for once. Everything pent up exploded. Did she want to hurt him? Was she fully in control of her faculties? She was in a haze the whole episode, a fish out of water, everything completely alien. Think of how many times that was done to her? What could Luke do in that situation with someone so fragile but take it? It was a nuanced, complex, emotional scene in a really heavy episode, but also narratively fitting.

Click to shrink...

very well said

 

[metsallica]

The rape scene was about power and control. Both immediate and taking some back for past transgressions. She was furious after meeting with Serena and she took it out on Luke. She was, literally, taking power back. Controlling what she could for once. Everything pent up exploded. Did she want to hurt him? Was she fully in control of her faculties? She was in a haze the whole episode, a fish out of water, everything completely alien. Think of how many times that was done to her? What could Luke do in that situation with someone so fragile but take it? It was a nuanced, complex, emotional scene in a really heavy episode, but also narratively fitting.

 

[Vic_Viper]

The rape scene was about power and control. Both immediate and taking some back for past transgressions. She was furious after meeting with Serena and she took it out on Luke. She was, literally, taking power back. Controlling what she could for once. Everything pent up exploded. Did she want to hurt him? Was she fully in control of her faculties? She was in a haze the whole episode, a fish out of water, everything completely alien. Think of how many times that was done to her? What could Luke do in that situation with someone so fragile but take it? It was a nuanced, complex, emotional scene in a really heavy episode, but also narratively fitting.

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Couldnt have said it better

 

[Curler]

The rape scene was about power and control. Both immediate and taking some back for past transgressions. She was furious after meeting with Serena and she took it out on Luke. She was, literally, taking power back. Controlling what she could for once. Everything pent up exploded. Did she want to hurt him? Was she fully in control of her faculties? She was in a haze the whole episode, a fish out of water, everything completely alien. Think of how many times that was done to her? What could Luke do in that situation with someone so fragile but take it? It was a nuanced, complex, emotional scene in a really heavy episode, but also narratively fitting.

Click to shrink...

That's exactly how I saw it. I think someone mentioned earlier she was trying to get pregnant (again) to spite Serena, but I was like "mmm don't think that's it..." especially with the context given.

 

[FrakEarth]

I'm behind you guys and was avoiding the thread because of it, but I watched episode 3 and just found it infuriating on a number of levels

Spoiler

• So at the close of the last episode Nick is the commander who is on site to apprehend her, he can apparently engineer secret meetings in front of guards but couldn't get any kind of warning out... ok, you let that go as maybe he didn't have the time...
  
  
• The season opened with Lydia saying nobody would rest until June was hanging on the wall, so up until this point it seemed we'd finally reached a point where we wouldn't have the flee/rebel > capture/discovery > punishment-porn cycle -- but Nick tells her the other girls are still at large, so okay, there's a legitimate reason they might want June alive...
  
  
• Because of her apprehension, June is waterboarded, threatened with having her fingernails pulled, kept in a tiny box for solitary confinement, made to feel responsible for two murders that happen right in front of her - sharing a bizarre but intimate look of recognition with one of the victims with a hand-holding cry that almost looks like a smile (we both know you have to die now lol sorry)... and finally, she's brought to dinner where they threaten her daughter with physical harm. Good line from Commander Lawrence: "Gilead doesn't care about children. Gilead cares about power. Faithfulness, old-time values, homemade bread, that's just the means to an end. It's a distraction. I thought you would have figured that out by now."
  
  
• So of course, June gives up her friends
  
  
• June tells Lydia she's ready to die. Oh no, you're too valuable. Forget the truth of what Lawrence just said, and the fact two women were treated as disposable in the prior scenes - apparently, you're all too valuable to die.
  
  
• We're sending Gilead's most wanted criminal to a breeding farm instead, with all of her friends. The same farm, in the same van. Lydia will have her tazer, and the driver will have a gun, just in case anyone tries to make a run from the unlockable doors.
  
  
• The longest train in existence wipes out those who aren't shot from the escape, and those who survive run in a straight line down the road, apparently so fast the guy with the gun and the van would find it impossible to pursue. Probably because the train was so long.
  
  
• So June has had a bad day since being arrested by Nick, has watched nearly all of her handmaid friends die because of it, and what does she do on seeing him?
  
  
• Cries because her daughter was scared and doubles back for a kiss. I literally said "oh fuck off" at my TV. I've no problem with Nick's actions in the position he's in... but June has been written so much better than this.

There are things I like this season. I liked that we've finally had some revenge. I like the complex confrontations and emotions we're seeing for people like Lydia, Fred, Serena and others. I like that the scenario is changing... but wow - I watched ep 4 straight afterwards as a palate cleanser, because if I didn't I probably would have dropped the show entirely. Even that had me rolling my eyes at a couple of points though

Spoiler

*sigh* sex slaves in America.... hey, suck my dick for some bread?

Some of these decisions should have the responsible writers ejected from the writing room from now on. From reading the thread, I've seen some spoilers, but it does sound like it gets better / more interesting...

 

[Bjomesphat]

The rape scene was about power and control. Both immediate and taking some back for past transgressions. She was furious after meeting with Serena and she took it out on Luke. She was, literally, taking power back. Controlling what she could for once. Everything pent up exploded. Did she want to hurt him? Was she fully in control of her faculties? She was in a haze the whole episode, a fish out of water, everything completely alien. Think of how many times that was done to her? What could Luke do in that situation with someone so fragile but take it? It was a nuanced, complex, emotional scene in a really heavy episode, but also narratively fitting.

Click to shrink...

Yeah this is certainly the emotional motivation behind June.

Though I'm still not sure I would call it rape. Just earlier in the episode Luke tried to initiate something but was rejected (for good reason of course). So when she woke him up to have sex, I took his reluctance to mean "no, we don't have to do this until you're ready". But he clearly knew that rejecting a fragile person would do more harm than good and decided to go along with it. If he really didn't want to have sex he could have been a lot more forceful, either verbally or physically.

I just think calling it a rape scene implies that June is a villain and Luke is the victim, and I don't think that's the case at all. There was never an imbalance of power, it was about a wife working through all of her emotional baggage, and a husband doing everything he can to support her.

 

[GrubChub]

Yeah this is certainly the emotional motivation behind June.

Though I'm still not sure I would call it rape. Just earlier in the episode Luke tried to initiate something but was rejected (for good reason of course). So when she woke him up to have sex, I took his reluctance to mean "no, we don't have to do this until you're ready". But he clearly knew that rejecting a fragile person would do more harm than good and decided to go along with it. If he really didn't want to have sex he could have been a lot more forceful, either verbally or physically.

I just think calling it a rape scene implies that June is a villain and Luke is the victim, and I don't think that's the case at all. There was never an imbalance of power, it was about a wife working through all of her emotional baggage, and a husband doing everything he can to support her.

Click to shrink...

Sorry, but I find that stupid. "Oh, she's fragile so I'll go along with this." Again, reverse the roles and it's 100% considered rape. Therefore, it's rape.

 

[Bjomesphat]

Sorry, but I find that stupid. "Oh, she's fragile so I'll go along with this." Again, reverse the roles and it's 100% considered rape. Therefore, it's rape.

Click to shrink...

It's fine to interpret it differently, but reversing the roles doesn't automatically prove a point. There are inherent physical differences between men and women that can't be ignored. If the roles were reversed, one could logically assume there's both a physical and emotional power abuse. But in this situation, we're really only talking about emotional abuse where Luke would have been too distraught to do anything. It's certainly a possibility, but I don't think it's that clear cut.

And I watched it again. He starts off being into it, then gets apprehensive and that's when she holds him down, then it ends with him looking confused or shocked. There's no real struggle though, and he doesn't do much to try and stop it. I still think he was apprehensive because he didn't want her to feel pressure from him, as evident by the earlier scene with his advance being rejected.

 

[Curler]

Surprised no one was talking about this ep. Lots to unpack :x

Waterford of course doubling down that Gilead's 'methods' of a higher birthrates "work". I mean sure, if you carefully select people that are fertile and treat them like breeding stock, sure it 'works'. June still struggling to communicate properly with Luke and this time he's moreso upset that she goes straight to physical interactions than trying to talk out and help with the trauma of Hannah etc. Then you have the whole Irene situation... no surprise with the outcome there :/

 

[Vic_Viper]

Yea, the birth rates are higher in Gilead, but at what cost is it worth it lol? Like all those women cheering for the Waterfords. I wonder how they would feel being held against their will and being forcibly raped 3 times a month.

If Gilead was giving these Handmaids a choice to become one, and being paid or compensated. It should be a choice, not something thats forced on people with fear of death.


I had a feeling this was going to happen. This season is going to end with Gilead in a better position than they were in at the start of the season. But June is probably going to end up rallying all the people in Canada and fight back somehow.

 

[Curler]

Like all those women cheering for the Waterfords. I wonder how they would feel being held against their will and being forcibly raped 3 times a month.

Click to shrink...

Like most awful people, of course Waterfords have a little fanclub of their own. I was just like "huh, if they like it so much, why don't they just go and be a part of Gilead then and see how that works out for them?"

 

[Armoured_Bear]

I have no idea how that council supposed to work. Are they the local branch or are they at the head of the regime?

Click to shrink...

I was wondering that too and how Nick became such a big shot.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Wow, really interesting developments in the last few moments of the newest episode! Very curious to see how things develop from here...

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

OK, the Waterford defense seems really weak. He basically admitted to everything and just rationalized it.

They both gotta go down this season.

 

[Curler]

OK, the Waterford defense seems really weak. He basically admitted to everything and just rationalized it.

They both gotta go down this season.

Click to shrink...

We got one more season tho :x Only 2 eps left this season.... flew by fast.

 

[Cass_Se]

We got one more season tho :x Only 2 eps left this season.... flew by fast.

Click to shrink...

Wait, was this ever confirmed?

Would the idea be to Handmaid's Tale season 5 finish June's story and then change the plot focus in Testaments adaptation?

 

[metsallica]

Not confirmed. They've said they'll keep going as long as Elisabeth Moss wants to.

‘The Handmaid’s Tale’ Showrunner Bruce Miller On Covid-19 Challenges & Series Conclusion

As in the dystopian fictional world of The Handmaid’s Tale, in real life, one of the biggest obstacles of the upcoming fourth season of the Hulu drama was getting into Canada. Though for the Elisabeth Moss starring series that barricade of sorts was more about the coronavirus pandemic than...

deadline.com

"As long as Lizzie will do this with me, I'll keep going," Miller quipped to laughter from Moss and Littlefield. "There's a lot of life in this story. I 'm certainly fascinated by what happens in the Testaments and if that's going to be part of our future, that's a bigger question."

Click to shrink...

 

[Curler]

Not confirmed. They've said they'll keep going as long as Elisabeth Moss wants to.

‘The Handmaid’s Tale’ Showrunner Bruce Miller On Covid-19 Challenges & Series Conclusion

As in the dystopian fictional world of The Handmaid’s Tale, in real life, one of the biggest obstacles of the upcoming fourth season of the Hulu drama was getting into Canada. Though for the Elisabeth Moss starring series that barricade of sorts was more about the coronavirus pandemic than...

deadline.com

Click to shrink...

(I guess the better wording on my part should've been "we still have *another* season tho")
I'm not a fan of basing a story along how long the actor wants to keep going (Supernatural did this too...). Sure, it's nice to keep having them get work, but makes for a stale story and then having to make up even MORE stuff just to keep that character going. Like, if they don't end it by S5, the show would just be running in circles in itself, I feel. I figured myself "how much content would even be left to tell, if they want to do Testaments and right now, June DID escape?" They better not bring June back to Gilead, wear the red dress, be subjected for reasons again because of a need to keep the plot going.

 

[Chucker]

Moira seems to have worked so hard to get that group going and June is gonna poison the shit out of it.

Wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't recruit some off of that group and form some pact to just cause chaos for Gilead, probably IN Gilead.

 

[Vic_Viper]

Not confirmed. They've said they'll keep going as long as Elisabeth Moss wants to.

‘The Handmaid’s Tale’ Showrunner Bruce Miller On Covid-19 Challenges & Series Conclusion

As in the dystopian fictional world of The Handmaid’s Tale, in real life, one of the biggest obstacles of the upcoming fourth season of the Hulu drama was getting into Canada. Though for the Elisabeth Moss starring series that barricade of sorts was more about the coronavirus pandemic than...

deadline.com

Click to shrink...

I thought The Testaments was confirmed to be coming in some form. Either as a sequel show, or just part of this show with some sort of time jump or something. If Elizabeth Moss doesnt want to return full time, they can do the whole show without her if they really wanted to. Just bring her back for cameos or a small part here and there.

 

[Walker_Boh]

Moira seems to have worked so hard to get that group going and June is gonna poison the shit out of it.

Wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't recruit some off of that group and form some pact to just cause chaos for Gilead, probably IN Gilead.

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't be surprised, June is rage incarnate at this point and wants to see Gilead burn.

 

[PAFenix]

There's no real struggle though, and he doesn't do much to try and stop it.

Click to shrink...

This is an very old victim blaming excuse that has been used for a long while. "They didn't do enough to stop it, thus they secretly enjoyed it." or some shit. He may have consented at first, but at any point consent can be revoked for any reason. That happened when he told her "no" and "wait" and she forced to continue. But she wanted to regain her sense of agency and power. I get that. She's extremely fucked up at the moment due to her trauma. Luke was probably even aware of that too, which is why he didn't "do better to get her to stop."

She's still the heroine of the story. She's not a villain. She still committed an act of rape.

 

[Chucker]

Yeah, it's a very fine line both parties were walking. Luke, wanting to use kid gloves as it were with June. June, wanting to regain some sort of agency. Neither using effective communication.

Yes, what June did was rape, yes it made her feel closer to "Normal", yes she is still a decent person. I would really like June to have a happy ending with Luke, but it's going to take time and understanding and I don't think Luke can fully understand what she went through, and I think June is more focused on revenge and Hannah. Both evident when Luke literally sobs that he doesn't know what to do and June being ready to burn Gilead with herself inside of it to the ground.

 

[Bjomesphat]

This is an very old victim blaming excuse that has been used for a long while. "They didn't do enough to stop it, thus they secretly enjoyed it." or some shit. He may have consented at first, but at any point consent can be revoked for any reason. That happened when he told her "no" and "wait" and she forced to continue. But she wanted to regain her sense of agency and power. I get that. She's extremely fucked up at the moment due to her trauma. Luke was probably even aware of that too, which is why he didn't "do better to get her to stop."

She's still the heroine of the story. She's not a villain. She still committed an act of rape.

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Still disagree calling June a rapist. The "no wait" was Luke telling her she doesn't have to do anything if it's too soon, since his advance was rejected earlier. That's why they had that scene because otherwise it would look very much like rape. There's a lot of nuance within the context of everything that can't really be ignored.

They even showed in last night's episode where June instantly backed down after a clear act of rejection from Luke. Luke could have easily stopped her that night if he wanted, but let her do her thing. He can still consent while also not really enjoying it.