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The Guardian: Anime gets Blackness wrong, how fans are fixing it.
- Thread starter Slayven
- Start date
G Gundam is international camp like Street Fighter used to be. Every country is stereotyped according to whatever the popular stereotypes were in its day (except for Japan). Here's a more interesting Gundam race question, is Loran black?
I always read him as South Asian but idk.
Loran read to me as black honestly in concept art he's even darker than in the anime
But Sanders from the 8th MS Team is Unarguably Black and As far as I can remember he had no negative stereotypes. Unless you count his stchick as one.
He is the inversion of Black guy dies first. Ever squad he is attached to is killed horribly and he is usually the only survivor. He makes it to the end of his series too.
Gundam is usually better about race than other anime with the (exception ofG Gundam of course) because of their plots are usually designed with the world in mind.
Its also makes me very happy that two PoC are the pilots of the most overpowered suits in the franchise. Loran has Turn A, while Setsuna F Seiei, who is Kurdish has 00/QuanT.
I remember being a kid and wondering if everyone in anime is supposed to be american or japanese since theyre all white. The next thought was why is there no one brown or black in any of these shows... I guess there arent many POC in Japan but even then there was never a need for the only time a black person to be on screen was when theyre portrayed as hulking brutes.
I won't lie, I always felt a little uncomfortable when I see some of those Jpop and Kpop idols that have hoop earrings and dreadlocks while singing over a hip-hop beat. The appropriation just doesn't feel right when it's coming from a pop industry that demands its musicians be as pale-skinned as possible and generally looks down on ethnic features.
This might be better suited for another thread though.
Kilik was already included in the OP. Let me try to think of a few others.
Dutch from Black Lagoon
Claudia Grant from SDF Macross.
Having just rewatched Macross, I'll second Claudia big time. That show actually does a lot of things better than some modern anime.
I rarely see my girl Moonbay mentioned, one of the reasons I still like Zoids to this day.
Yea wish we had more though.
I somehow forgot the crush I had on this character at one point.
After my teens I started noticing how weirdly anime handled the concept of foreign characters.
Almost all characters I saw that were specifically meant to be western white were cringey.
Almost all characters with dark skin were downright offensive.
It was better in the few series I've seen that were specifically set in clearly western settings, but in most settings the majority of characters were asian coded and the foreigners were just lol inducing.
Almost all characters I saw that were specifically meant to be western white were cringey.
Almost all characters with dark skin were downright offensive.
It was better in the few series I've seen that were specifically set in clearly western settings, but in most settings the majority of characters were asian coded and the foreigners were just lol inducing.
I got a good laugh out of Castorp. Miyazaki really went there in record time.
I've been binging Naruto Shippuden for the first time these past few months and OH BOY have I got conflicted feelings about Killer Bee and the Cloud Village.
Feelings ranging from "holy shit cool looking black ninjas!" to "so this clown gonna be rapping the whole time huh..." Only like half way through the series but yeah, still torn
And it's kinda funny how they REALLY went all in on the blonde hair/dark skin trope for those peeps lol. But I honestly don't mind so much here. They still look cool, so I'll take what I can get.
Feelings ranging from "holy shit cool looking black ninjas!" to "so this clown gonna be rapping the whole time huh..." Only like half way through the series but yeah, still torn
And it's kinda funny how they REALLY went all in on the blonde hair/dark skin trope for those peeps lol. But I honestly don't mind so much here. They still look cool, so I'll take what I can get.
Probabely, but the reponse will probabely be similiar to white people cooking other culture dish their own way and if say is incorrect or they use bad example for their store or menu.
"Song and stuff is not to be locked down to specific race or region"
"You can't control etc"
"Music is to be free, like cooking is free, there shouldn't be rule or limit"
And alot of people that use them, only want the music or image, and not the history and meaning.
I remember liking the Eureka 7 cast a lot, but its been many years so maybe it doesn't hold up as well now.
I will say killer bee wants to be more to the village than just a WMD, he wants to be a entertainer, he not only wants to be a rapper but he wanted to try enka too. I mean, when bee is introduced at least he's more than a 1 dimensional strong guy.
Cloud is canon the strongest village in shippuden and raikage is the dopest kage.
G Gundam aside, Gundam's rooted in the old sci fi idea that globalization is the future, so it's always got some degree of non-white, non-Japanese presence, like the Afro-Mexican Ryu Jose in the first series. It's not nearly as diverse about its main protagonists - although they did eventually have a Middle Eastern guy in 00. Some neat people in expanded material too, like Den Berserk (supposed to be the star of MS-X) and Lydo Wolf (third greatest Federation ace right after Amuro Ray).
Speakly purely as a nerd, sometimes I'm saddened by how bad design can make characters completely unsalvageable. You'll have a character who the creator may have thought that they were doing something good with but there's just so much ignorance going into designing them that any of those positives all go to waste. It's not the biggest issue, of course, and it's often better than the stuff is buried and forgotten about. But sort I'm sort of wistful that the good part of the characters end up being invisible because the negatives have ruined the whole.
Take Dragonball. Staff Officer Black is actually the ultimate villain of the Red Ribbon Army arc, following the plot twist that he mutinies because the original leader is a gag villain with stupid motives. He ends up as the Freeza or Cell of the arc in practice; a position comparable to some of the most beloved and most marketable characters. Generally speaking, it would be great to have a black character in that a similar level of prominence, not necessarily as the villain in particular but as one of the main characters in an arc. But when people think of Staff Officer Black, what they're going to be thinking about is the name and the blackface-esque character design. That's not something that can headline on a Dokkan Battle banner.
Similarly, in terms of the scenario around him, Mr. Popo actually had a pretty great introduction where he's just so far beyond Goku's level that he ends up telling Kami that Goku isn't worth training. That's classic Dragonball right there, for Goku to go from being on the top of the world after beating King Piccolo only to be shown that there is still so far further to climb. But again, it ends up being buried because the design is basically a golliwog doll and you can't pay attention to anything else when he's designed like that. There were even rejected designs where he looked more like a bird or Namekian or something, but that isn't the design that they used, so there's no saving him now.
Speakly purely as a nerd, sometimes I'm saddened by how bad design can make characters completely unsalvageable. You'll have a character who the creator may have thought that they were doing something good with but there's just so much ignorance going into designing them that any of those positives all go to waste. It's not the biggest issue, of course, and it's often better than the stuff is buried and forgotten about. But sort I'm sort of wistful that the good part of the characters end up being invisible because the negatives have ruined the whole.
Take Dragonball. Staff Officer Black is actually the ultimate villain of the Red Ribbon Army arc, following the plot twist that he mutinies because the original leader is a gag villain with stupid motives. He ends up as the Freeza or Cell of the arc in practice; a position comparable to some of the most beloved and most marketable characters. Generally speaking, it would be great to have a black character in that a similar level of prominence, not necessarily as the villain in particular but as one of the main characters in an arc. But when people think of Staff Officer Black, what they're going to be thinking about is the name and the blackface-esque character design. That's not something that can headline on a Dokkan Battle banner.
Similarly, in terms of the scenario around him, Mr. Popo actually had a pretty great introduction where he's just so far beyond Goku's level that he ends up telling Kami that Goku isn't worth training. That's classic Dragonball right there, for Goku to go from being on the top of the world after beating King Piccolo only to be shown that there is still so far further to climb. But again, it ends up being buried because the design is basically a golliwog doll and you can't pay attention to anything else when he's designed like that. There were even rejected designs where he looked more like a bird or Namekian or something, but that isn't the design that they used, so there's no saving him now.
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Does he have to stare into my soul?I got a good laugh out of Castorp. Miyazaki really went there in record time.
And that's part of my mixed feelings on Bee. I thought he was just gonna be a disposable one-off, but it was a nice surprise to see him become more and more of a main character as time went on, along with his village. Prominently featured in the opening credits and everthing!
He's got a cool design, a compelling role and backstory, and is a competent badass shinobi.
But his brand buffoonery is almost a deal breaker. No matter how much they try to justify his behavior and make it an endearing quality, it's still nails on a chalkboard evertime this dude "talks". And he opens his mouth all the goddam time. I just can't ignore that shit.
Fortunately there are other Cloud Ninjas I'm vibing with pretty hard. Don't know their names, but the stoic shaggy haired guy, and the younger cat with the lollipop are the ones I'm claiming right now. Hope to see more of them!
Still can't believe people looked at those racist ass Martian cockroaches and didn't think anything was amiss.
It's basically if you smooshed Mechas and Wrasslin' together with marginally decent storylines.
It's basically if you smooshed Mechas and Wrasslin' together with marginally decent storylines.
Yuki in Japanese = "snow" , and there is a traditional Japanese folklore evil spirit called 雪女/ゆきおんな/Yuki-onn who has long white hair and lives in the snow mountain. So yuki = white hair girl is a popular anime trope.
Thanks for making this thread. Being a darker skinned nerd who was interested in cosplay starting in the early 2000s, it was pretty bleak regarding options for almost all nerd culture, anime included. It's getting better overall, but it's definitely agonizingly slow and there's several bad attempts. Plus it's even rarer to find someone from the main cast who is recognizable without additional people there.
A few characters that I have liked that also stuck with me:
Carole from Carole and Tuesday (the Mermaid Sisters thing was pretty yikes since the rest of it was so good/wholesome in general)
Muhammad Avdol from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (this show does pretty diverse stuff in general but Avdol was great, surprised I haven't seen him pictured itt)
Canary from HunterXHunter (minor role but quite well done and could easily show up again)
Archie from Pokemon ORAS (one of the best redesigned characters of all time imo, even though I don't think he was officially in the anime so that might be cheating, but Pokemon has a lot of good examples anyway)
and Fire Emblem from Tiger and Bunny (that Dennis Rodman-style flamboyant gay stereotype that was popular(?) at the time but done well for some reason, very intellgient and strong, runs their own company while doing hero work and good friends with most of the cast without being the butt of jokes with them)
A few characters that I have liked that also stuck with me:
Carole from Carole and Tuesday (the Mermaid Sisters thing was pretty yikes since the rest of it was so good/wholesome in general)
Muhammad Avdol from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (this show does pretty diverse stuff in general but Avdol was great, surprised I haven't seen him pictured itt)
Canary from HunterXHunter (minor role but quite well done and could easily show up again)
Archie from Pokemon ORAS (one of the best redesigned characters of all time imo, even though I don't think he was officially in the anime so that might be cheating, but Pokemon has a lot of good examples anyway)
and Fire Emblem from Tiger and Bunny (that Dennis Rodman-style flamboyant gay stereotype that was popular(?) at the time but done well for some reason, very intellgient and strong, runs their own company while doing hero work and good friends with most of the cast without being the butt of jokes with them)
Spoiler for Attack on Titan Season 4
Haven't read through the thread completely, but Attack on Titan does a great job with black characters and characters of different races imo. Onyankopon is such a great post timeskip character
Gonna watch this later. It's something that I noticed with anime even when I was a kid. Black was almost never black unless it was a stereotype. And on the opposite end, if you didn't have a white-skinned character, they were almost always given European features and colorful or light hair.
Maybe because I grew up going to a church that wasn't predominately white, but it's very noticeable. Now that I'm older, it's even more so. This isn't anime, but something that came up while playing moon that I also mentioned in the OT:
Maybe because I grew up going to a church that wasn't predominately white, but it's very noticeable. Now that I'm older, it's even more so. This isn't anime, but something that came up while playing moon that I also mentioned in the OT:
(Note: I feel fucking weird putting this under a spoiler. But people on the forum have a deep relationship with that game and I don't know know how to approach this.)
The cast in that game isn't completely monochromatic, but it's mostly unspecified white people (there are cultural white people from the US as well as people who read white but are from other regions which is why I'm categorizing them as such) and fantastical creatures.
Partway through the game, you build up enough stamina to make it to an island. This is where you'll come across this scene:
This is the only character with dark skin that's not a wooden puppet, and it's on an island full of monkeys. He mocks the impossibility of you learning their song, and once you succeed he calls himself worthless and a failure. This is all we ever see of him. As far as I could tell, you can't return. You're given a speech in your dream about how you've taught him to keep trying, but it felt unfinished.
The longer the game went on, the more that scene dug in. The game has some issues with women, too, being forced into motherly or romantic roles, with only a single kind of exception. It sucks because there's a lot about the game I'd like to recommend and it has some fairly unique and worthwhile experiences, but that kind of casual racism has stopped me. I haven't pushed the issue much because I know that game meant a lot to some people, but the further I get from the game, the more that's the image I'm left with.
The cast in that game isn't completely monochromatic, but it's mostly unspecified white people (there are cultural white people from the US as well as people who read white but are from other regions which is why I'm categorizing them as such) and fantastical creatures.
Partway through the game, you build up enough stamina to make it to an island. This is where you'll come across this scene:
This is the only character with dark skin that's not a wooden puppet, and it's on an island full of monkeys. He mocks the impossibility of you learning their song, and once you succeed he calls himself worthless and a failure. This is all we ever see of him. As far as I could tell, you can't return. You're given a speech in your dream about how you've taught him to keep trying, but it felt unfinished.
The longer the game went on, the more that scene dug in. The game has some issues with women, too, being forced into motherly or romantic roles, with only a single kind of exception. It sucks because there's a lot about the game I'd like to recommend and it has some fairly unique and worthwhile experiences, but that kind of casual racism has stopped me. I haven't pushed the issue much because I know that game meant a lot to some people, but the further I get from the game, the more that's the image I'm left with.
Baby Steps does this pretty well. There are lots of foreign characters and they're all portrayed well, though sometimes their names don't fit their intended nationality well.
Couple of weird points there are one character who's an American "stereotype" (big, blonde and blue hair, talks loudly and uses English words). He's the only one who speaks Japanese and does it with an annoying accent. The rest speak English which is portrayed as normal Japanese.
Another case is when the main character wants to play with a Russian/American tennis pro and he refuses. He later thinks to himself "I didn't want to play with you not because you're an amateur, but because Japanese don't understand Western etiquette".
It wasn't offensive but it was just.. What.
Couple of weird points there are one character who's an American "stereotype" (big, blonde and blue hair, talks loudly and uses English words). He's the only one who speaks Japanese and does it with an annoying accent. The rest speak English which is portrayed as normal Japanese.
Another case is when the main character wants to play with a Russian/American tennis pro and he refuses. He later thinks to himself "I didn't want to play with you not because you're an amateur, but because Japanese don't understand Western etiquette".
It wasn't offensive but it was just.. What.
Killer Bee is a buffoon for sure but it's depicted to show similarities to Naruto, who also used goofy and attention-seeking behavior to gain respect in the village.
Plus, with the rapping and the name Killer Bee, he's a pretty clear tip of the hat to the Wu-Tang Clan aka the Killer Bees, the rap group who famously built their entire motif around kung-fu films and anime.
I'm not 100% on this point. There a lot of people across the world besides black people who have dark skin and telling them that a dark skinned character has to be black unless specified otherwise by the creator doesn't seem fair, either.
Too bad Setsuna became a lizard person.
If you want something rarely mentioned, there's Jyu Oh Sei where the whole principle of the clans on the prison planet is based on skin colors (Ochre Ring, Sun Ring, Blanc Ring, and Noire Ring).I rarely see my girl Moonbay mentioned, one of the reasons I still like Zoids to this day.
Yea wish we had more though.
That would sound racist off the bat, yet there's no enforced segregation and also zero racial stereotyping in the whole serie.
Although there would be 2 somewhat yikes nowadays with one tan character actually being white, but in disguise, to infiltrate the tan ring and the ending where the white main character turns tan (in story he's genetically engineered and has hyper-adaptive survival DNA - him giving up on returning home and choosing to live on the planet leads to the change since matching the color of the ring where he resides would give him a better chance of survival)
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Oh, by no means am I trying to say every brown person in anime/ Japanese games is "black". I'm more so talking about the "Pokemon Sun/ Moon Olivia's" of anime/ Japanese gaming land. Olivia by all means looks like an attractive black woman who likes jewelry to me at least. She even appears to ref Beyoncé "all the single ladies" in her official art pose (and that's kinda funny cause part of her character/ story is being single and looking for love). But ... she doesn't have *GASP* an AFRO! So to weebs online who find her attractive it's up for debate if people are "allowed" to call her black.
She's not like Gym leader Lenora who has a huge Afro and legit had to have her apron taken off in the Western release because people would CLEARLY see the "Mammy archetype".
Basically when it comes to the arvg anime art style ... unless someone has Afro/ locs/ braids or they look like a racist cartoon then they can't be black to some people. (It's not a problem for anime that have more detailed facial features though, like Carol and Tuesday. But that's far less common than the limiting copy/ paste anime face that many anime/ games have as a core design)
There's prob a lot of over-lap between these types who would spend time to argue over someone calling a brown anime character (with no discernable realistic facial features) "black" and those who would praise a white cosplayer doing a Japanese character yet harass a black cosplayer because "they're not black". Hell, I've seen black people catch shit from shitty people for cosplaying a cartoon dog. Because to some people (racist people) black people trying to make any connection to something they happen to also enjoy is an attempt to take it away from them.
To many everything defaults to white which is why it's so common for people to think anime characters "look white" (or how they can look at Isabell from Animal Crossing and think "WHITE"). But to be "black" you have to be the other extreme, you have to look so wholy different from the default that it's undeniable. Anything that doesn't tick off the boxes of what they feel is "black enough" doesn't count and they feel the need to enforce that PoV on others in the community.
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A great question because oh wheee.
Good a video indeed Slayven. Like most things don't bother reading the comments. Unless you want to see how normal racism is in the world.
Anime and manga back then took a lot of inspiration from Hollywood so multi ethnic anime were rather common even if it was just background characters and stereotypes.
Anime nowadays doesn't look outwards anymore. It's really insular and has been quite influenced by the need to appeal to otakus which meant lots of slice of life, moe shows and medieval european settings which were also popular in games like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. All of this reached its peak when the isekai genre exploded and now it's really just a joke.
What is striking about that is that the name of said character is the ghanaian name for god in the akan language.
Part of that mythology might be familiar to african americans and afro caribbeans with the trickster spider anansi.
ooof-load-large.jpgWatching Space Brothers and generally enjoying it until of course they choose to portray one of the black (muscular) astronauts
as a gorilla in the in-universe anime:
It doesn't end there as we get a Jamaican astronaut who just HAPPENS to wear headphones shaped like big ears:
like come on
I've been meaning to watch Space Brothers since it sounds exactly what I enjoy, but these stereotypes are not helping.
On topic, yeah it does get annoying seeing constant stereotypes being played out in anime without fail. I think I can count on one hand the amount of shows that do representation right, and even then, one could pick out problems amongst those shows.
What was wrong with Simon in Durarara? He was one of my favorite characters and although he is drawn with defined lips I didnt think it was done in an offensive manner.
Im not asking about it in order to defend it, just wondering what Im missing.
Im not asking about it in order to defend it, just wondering what Im missing.
This is particularly absurd given that the reader base for a lot of shonen manga are female.Weekly Shonen Jump has never had a female editor in its 50-year history
Shueisha Says Female Jump Editors Need to 'Understand the Hearts of Boys'
Weekly Shonen Jump has never had a female editor in its 50-year historywww.animenewsnetwork.com
Yes, and some of the current more popular serie are by female author.
Do black peoples lips look like tubes to you? This is the perfect example of why this stuff preserves.
Anime is very racist and xenophobic.
Its one of the reasons I'm distancing myself from it nowadays.
There definitely has to be more uproar about it and not put down to "oh Japan!". If this shit was happening in the West there would be revolt.
One piece is one on particular that irks me. The whole series is about acceptance and diversity yet Oda hardly has any black characters. The anime has a wide arrange of skin tones, but going by Odas canon colourings everybody has light skin. Even more annoying when he was inspired by Black history with the Fishman Island arc.
Its one of the reasons I'm distancing myself from it nowadays.
There definitely has to be more uproar about it and not put down to "oh Japan!". If this shit was happening in the West there would be revolt.
One piece is one on particular that irks me. The whole series is about acceptance and diversity yet Oda hardly has any black characters. The anime has a wide arrange of skin tones, but going by Odas canon colourings everybody has light skin. Even more annoying when he was inspired by Black history with the Fishman Island arc.
Anime being racist/xenophobic really sucks, because its so freaking common.
It can be amusing when it's about white people or Europe/America in general, but the way they portray people with darker skin is heinous.
Regarding the "it can be amusing" part, I mean stuff like Kid, the character used in Yakitate Japan whenever they need to show a American/French/Austrian face.
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It can be amusing when it's about white people or Europe/America in general, but the way they portray people with darker skin is heinous.
Regarding the "it can be amusing" part, I mean stuff like Kid, the character used in Yakitate Japan whenever they need to show a American/French/Austrian face.
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Do black peoples lips look like tubes to you? This is the perfect example of why this stuff preserves.
Gotcha. I thought that was within the degree of stylization (meaning, its not mr popo) but if its offensive then Im obviously not correct. Thanks for clarifying
*ughhh*
I know someone answered already and this may come off as rude. But
If we (Black people) have a character in a piece of work (like this video) when talk bad representation of us, word of advice? It's bad, we are well versed in the centuries and ever present racist portrayals of us
You know me, Id never think of this as rude.
Saw something on the video I wasnt aware of (and they didnt go deep with that particular example) so I asked a question, it got answered, now I can do a better job at helping out.
Stoic guy is Darui
Lollipop guy is Omoi
Yep. You can draw fuller lips on people without resorting to needing to do fucking sausages or balloon animal lips.
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God I hate that movie so much
Even though 00 was building up to freaking aliens all tye way from season 1 it still pissed me off when it happened. Gundam is at its best when it's people vs people and we get to know the guys on the lower ends who are admirable or have admirable qualities but just happen to be on the wrong side
We must unite to stop the aliens never jellied well with me even if its another take on the original animes themes on actually understanding the needs and wants of your fellow man can prevent war.
Making Setsuna "acended" and making him alien white was also rage inducing to me too.
00 was at its best during S1 and very good during S2 but I like to pretend that movie didn't exist