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Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada
Last week, a motley mass of shitposters, gambling enthusiasts, and disaffected Zoomers — united by hate for Wall Street and love of chicken tenders — beat a multibillion-dollar hedge fund at its own game. Through their collective intelligence and audacity, users of the Reddit forum WallStreetBets executed a sophisticated "short squeeze" that took money away from some billionaire speculators, gave it to some badly indebted workers, and made a mockery of neoliberal capitalism's legitimizing myths. Unfortunately, right when these working-class retail investors had Wall Street's titans on the run, the plutocracy's visible hand appeared to reach down and thwart them: Robinhood, a trading app popular with young recreational investors, suddenly barred its users from buying GameStop shares, thereby relieving pressure on the hedge-fund shorts.

That is one way of recounting the GameStop rally, anyway.

Here is another: A group of small-time speculators — including some finance-industry professionals — orchestrated a pump-and-dump scheme that involved convincing a lot of financially inexpert (and/or politically disaffected) people that they could stick it to Wall Street's largest money managers by … bidding up the price of an equity that is owned by Wall Street's largest money managers. This generated enough momentum to trigger a "short squeeze," and the price of GameStop shares shot to the moon. Wall-to-wall media coverage ensued. Inexperienced investors bought the hype, and began piling into what now resembled a Ponzi scheme: When the bubble finally burst, those who bought in early would have a chance to cash out before the stock fell beneath their break-even price; those who bought late would have little warning before the "dump" wiped them out.
...
There is some truth to both these accounts. But to believe that the GameStop short squeeze was "an updated and superior version of Occupy Wall Street" — which is to say, a populist challenge to the tyranny of high finance that deserved the left's avid support and attention — one had to accept the first summary as gospel, and dismiss all confounding details as apologetics for Big Hedge Fund.
...
For a few days last week, amid mass hunger and unemployment, various left-wing Twitter influencers chose to focus their advocacy on the plight of small-time speculators who'd been barred from buying into a pump-and-dump scheme — while socialist congresswomen treated the right of amateur market manipulators to purchase whatever stocks they want, in whatever quantity they can afford, on the phone-based trading app of their choice, as a cause of national importance.
...
In the hands of a well-organized progressive movement — one accountable to working-class constituencies, and tolerant of internal dissent — social media is a powerful weapon. In those of an agglomeration of progressive media addicts and creators — who are accountable primarily to their followers, employers' traffic expectations, and Patreon subscribers — social media is a potent brain toxin that causes its victims to mistake spectacle for substance, anti-intellectualism for anti-elitism, conspiracy theorizing for critical thinking, and the interests of iconoclastic college graduates for those of working people writ large (in severe cases, it may even lead a supposed leftist to mistake Ted Cruz for an ally in the fight against high finance).

Extremely online progressives could have spent last week pressuring congressional Democrats to increase the value of the federal unemployment benefits in Joe Biden's COVID-relief plan to $600; instead we successfully pressured them into demanding investigations into Robinhood's treacherous abrogation of its users' right to lose money to hedge funds.
Full article: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/02/gamestop-wallstreetbets-twitter-populism-progressives.html

I would recommend reading the entire article, since it does a great job of breaking down the unusual framing of the Gamestop/Blackberry/Sundial/Nokia/"joke" stocks being shorted as some stand against the elite who don't play by the same rules/don't have to abide by them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
That's a very good article, despite having kind of a douche-y tone to it. He does a good job highlighting the overall narrative and the strange bedfellows it made for a five-day period.

Too much of internet political/economics discourse tries to turn everything into this us-vs-them, establishment-vs-rebels conflict, and that type of attitude tends to lead people into really stupid conspiracy theories because stories about rigging and hidden forces spreads a lot better than stories about historical examples. Who needs detailed knowledge about investment collateral or how caucuses work when you can just blame it all on a really vague web of incentives that totally misrepresent both rules and relationships?

The hostility on this forum can get kind of crazy against people that dare try to present basic historical and professional examples to go against some conventional wisdom, often dismissed as shills or secretly part of the enemy. In the GME threads, Stooge and Gamechanger87 really had to put up with a whole lot of really insane and aggressive shit when they calmly presented their personal and professional experience on a wide range of financial topics, and a bunch of long-time PoliERA people were basically forced off the site by constant, really shitty treatment because they weren't really on the same page as the bulk of the site's userbase. The moderation team did a good job eventually banning a bunch of the super hostile conspiracy people in the GME threads, but I imagine that it is a constant battle to determine where the line is.
 
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TheAvatar

Member
Nov 4, 2017
695
What's funny is how people were trying to frame it as 17-19 years pranking Wall Street or something, when it was quite obviously the late 20s to 40s. They have this weird idea that Reddit and the internet is just some kids and teenagers, shows how out of touch some older people are with the internet.
 
OP
OP
Caz

Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada
What's funny is how people were trying to frame it as 17-19 years pranking Wall Street or something, when it was quite obviously the late 20s to 40s. They have this weird idea that Reddit and the internet is just some kids and teenagers, shows how out of touch some older people are with the internet.
I'm sure there are a few people who are that age who dipped their toes into investments given how much WSB has exploded in terms of its userbase but to suggest they were the majority is simply dishonest, especially because it downplays how a lot of people in the more likely age bracket are comfortable using the r-word, among other ableist slurs commonly found in WallStreetBets.
Very populist that GameStop's biggest asset holder - Blackrock - walked out of this whole thing making billions.
And Blackberry's shareholders too made some significant dough during this joke rally. Curious!
 

MrGiraffe

Member
Feb 27, 2020
478
Curious that this dropped to the second page with few replies.

Are we skipping the self-reflection part of what happened the past week?
 

Dennis8K

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,161
The only activism that has actually hurt a hedge fund is getting attacked by the Great and Good of the mainstream media immediately.

How surprising.

What steps are being seriously considered to curb hedge funds instead of this activism?

Oh none, quelle surprise.

Nothing to see here, no rigged systems, just billionaires getting richer.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,014
The House always wins. The story metastatizing and becoming the lead story on every news station told me those hedge funds were going to make all their money back, and then some.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,949
Great article, I think the tone works well since the writer admits he was wrong and is calling out his own willingness to jump to conclusions along everyone else across the political spectrum. Everyone got caught up in the moment. The lightning pace of social media makes it incredibly difficult to get misinformation under control and compels everyone to get their hot take in immediately without thinking it all the way through. One would hope that this could be used for good but it feels like it ends up as a disaster more often than not.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
The House always wins. The story metastatizing and becoming the lead story on every news station told me those hedge funds were going to make all their money back, and then some.

"Those hedge funds" lost lots of money. Other firms made a lot of money. The net was mostly at the expense of retail investors that bought at the peak.

You're sounding a lot like the conspiracy / populist type the article is lamenting.
 

MrGiraffe

Member
Feb 27, 2020
478
This is not "activism". It's people getting fleeced by a pyramid scheme disguised as populism.

Tale as old as time.
 

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
4,783
Watching /r/wallstreetbets the past few days has been kinda sad. So many people there are still convinced that GME is gonna skyrocket to the moon soon and they're mocking anyone who sold already. A lot of people over there seem to be in denial that they're losing a lot of money.
 

Relic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
631
The article does a bad job explaining the clearing houses that supposedly are the real reason that Robinhood and Schwab prohibited trades. And too many forces were in the mass media trying to put a stop to the whole thing to make me think the hedge funds had it in the bag. Maybe some of them did, but trading companies and hedge funds don't show up in the mass media begging trading to stop usually. Usually when trading stops they lose money. The fact that they were wanting this says they stood to lose money. It sure as hell wasn't driven by concern over retail investors. Otherwise they'd recommend closing them out entirely and just doing index funds. But they don't want that, because retail investors are the suckers that the hedge funds use to get good deals on stocks.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,301
Haven't been following his story for a few days. So GME crashed in value like everyone thought it eventually would?
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,439
The only thing that shocked me is that I even thought about hopping in at some point. Im surprised Im not completely immune to that stuff by now. I know for a fact I would never be goaded into actually putting money into it; but that the thought even crossed my mind is real proof of how easily this stuff can sway people.

I just hope people did not screw around and lose what little they had. We are already such a bad situation that we need government stimulus. The thought of the timing of this mess causing people to gamble away what little they had is infuriating.
 

adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,226
Watching /r/wallstreetbets the past few days has been kinda sad. So many people there are still convinced that GME is gonna skyrocket to the moon soon and they're mocking anyone who sold already. A lot of people over there seem to be in denial that they're losing a lot of money.

When the hype started taking off I took a look over there and went "yep, that's a cult."
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
When the hype started taking off I took a look over there and went "yep, that's a cult."
I had to subscribe just to watch the nonsense in case they went private again. You really aren't far off suggesting they're a cult. It's absolute madness the lengths people will go to to try to justify this whole thing.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,496
Watching /r/wallstreetbets the past few days has been kinda sad. So many people there are still convinced that GME is gonna skyrocket to the moon soon and they're mocking anyone who sold already. A lot of people over there seem to be in denial that they're losing a lot of money.
You have to remember, that's what wsb thrives off of. They love their loss porn, and this unfortunately will proved a bunch of that.
 
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GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,245
Any populist, grassroots movement championed by a board of people who drop ableist and homophobic slurs on a whim was ill-conceived from the start.
 

echoshifting

very salt heavy
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,756
The Negative Zone
Watching /r/wallstreetbets the past few days has been kinda sad. So many people there are still convinced that GME is gonna skyrocket to the moon soon and they're mocking anyone who sold already. A lot of people over there seem to be in denial that they're losing a lot of money.

It was always gonna go down like this but you're right, it's still sad

Anyone who hasn't sold by now should not have drank the kool aid
 

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
4,783
You have to remember, that's what wsb thrives off of. They love their lose porn, and this unfortunately will proved a bunch of that.
For me the sad thing about it with this current situation is that you know there are tons of people who are investing in the stock market for the first time and have absolutely no clue what they're doing. These people see wsb users using fancy stock market terms to justify holding onto GME shares and think "these guys sound like they know what they're talking about, I'm gonna buy more. I believe them that this is just a dip and GME is gonna hit $1k!"

The stories of people who put too much faith into WSB and lost too much money as a result are gonna be brutal.
 

Skyscourge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2020
1,855
You have to remember, that's what wsb thrives off of. They love their lose porn, and this unfortunately will proved a bunch of that.
The worst thing is this experience will colour many peoples view of the stock market and how to play it in the wrong way. You can absolutely develop the skills and knowledge to reliably make money off of the stock market through research and practice. Heck, the initial idea of the play wasn't even that bad. GME was primed for a short squeeze given the exceedingly high short interest, its happened to many other stocks in the past. But the narrative got way too out of hand. People forgot that in order to have really stuck it to the rich people/hedge funds, they needed to have actually made money. Ironically, they got greedy. And you know what they say, bulls make money, bears make money, and pigs get slaughtered.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,245
The worst thing is this experience will colour many peoples view of the stock market and how to play it in the wrong way. You can absolutely develop the skills and knowledge to reliably make money off of the stock market through research and practice. Heck, the initial idea of the play wasn't even that bad. GME was primed for a short squeeze given the exceedingly high short interest, its happened to many other stocks in the past. But the narrative got way too out of hand. People forgot that in order to have really stuck it to the rich people/hedge funds, they needed to have actually made money. Ironically, they got greedy. And you know what they say, bulls make money, bears make money, and pigs get slaughtered.
The most reliable way to make money off the stock market is actually the easiest and most effortless. Just buy and hold index funds and let compound interest do the rest of the work. All it requires is patience, which admittedly most people don't have.
 

Skyscourge

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2020
1,855
The most reliable way to make money off the stock market is actually the easiest and most effortless. Just buy and hold index funds and let compound interest do the rest of the work. All it requires is patience, which admittedly most people don't have.
Yep, but even day trading/short term trade (which is most of what wsb does) is not really gambling like WSB often portrays. Fundamentals, technicals, historical data can all inform those decisions and make it more of a probability game and not "gambling". "DD" on WSB often reads like a marketing pitch, not like actual analysis of numbers, charts and patterns.
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,549
Earth
I didn't touch that GME thing at all. I just feel bad for all the people who followed along with WSB. You know some of them lost big time money.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
One of the dumbest things to come out of this is that a "Short Ladder Attack" isn't even a thing. There's literally zero Google results for the term before this whole shitshow, and it there's not even anything similar to the term. It is just financial-sounding goulash. Laddering is a totally unrelated term, and a Short Attack is something related to Short Sells but definitely doesn't apply if it is trading at high volumes after a 100x price increase. It's just a fucking made-up term to try to make sense of the situation and attribute it to some greater forces.

Narrative bias is a hell of drug.
 

dear speaker

Member
Apr 16, 2020
227
One of the dumbest things to come out of this is that a "Short Ladder Attack" isn't even a thing. There's literally zero Google results for the term before this whole shitshow, and it there's not even anything similar to the term. It is just financial-sounding goulash. Laddering is a totally unrelated term, and a Short Attack is something related to Short Sells but definitely doesn't apply if it is trading at high volumes after a 100x price increase. It's just a fucking made-up term to try to make sense of the situation and attribute it to some greater forces.

Narrative bias is a hell of drug.

To their credit, some WSB posters actually did try to point out that short ladder attacks are just straight up not real and seemingly invented by WSB itself. I never read closely enough to see what they were actually supposed to signify, beyond some vague claims about counterfeit shares. But I've definitely seen the concept thrown around as a legitimate concern all over the web and without anyone raising any particular objections.
 

ConfusingJazz

Not the Ron Paul Texas Fan.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,903
China
Haven't been following his story for a few days. So GME crashed in value like everyone thought it eventually would?

Yes, and other hedge funds probably made a butt load of money while others lost a butt load of money.

This wasn't main street vs. wall street, it was wall street vs. wall street, with people thinking they were part of it.

People on this forum who said "Don't do this shit, you will lose your house" got yelled at.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,968
South Carolina
Very populist that GameStop's biggest asset holder - Blackrock - walked out of this whole thing making billions.

Yes, id hope it wasnt some scam with some money thrown out the back of the hijacked armored car or something cuz there is a REAL cast of characters behind some of the bank makers on this.

www.reuters.com

Free trading app Robinhood raises $363 million, valuation soars to $5.6 billion

Online brokerage startup Robinhood raised $363 million in a new round of funding led by Russian billionaire Yuri Milner's investment group DST Global, valuing the company at $5.6 billion.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
To their credit, some WSB posters actually did try to point out that short ladder attacks are just straight up not real and seemingly invented by WSB itself. I never read closely enough to see what they were actually supposed to signify, beyond some vague claims about counterfeit shares. But I've definitely seen the concept thrown around as a legitimate concern all over the web and without anyone raising any particular objections.

Yeah, there's a lot of sane knowledgeable people on WSB that clearly do finance stuff for a living and just like the memes. They just get drowned out and downvoted more often than note.

Browsing comments or posts by New or Controversial paints a totally different picture of the sub than what gets upvoted to the front page of Top/Best.
 

ConfusingJazz

Not the Ron Paul Texas Fan.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,903
China
Yeah, there's a lot of sane knowledgeable people on WSB that clearly do finance stuff for a living and just like the memes. They just get drowned out and downvoted more often than note.

Browsing comments or posts by New or Controversial paints a totally different picture of the sub than what gets upvoted to the front page of Top/Best.

Before this, a worrying amount of WSB posts were about people that were losing, and losing big.
 

Keyser S

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
8,480
I bought some BB stock during last week's madness (at around 13.50), but bought after a (little) bit of personal research. And decided if a big boom did not happen I was okay holding onto it for a few years. Right now I am happy to hold it for years; up to 2023/24 onwards. I think it will naturally rise as BB shifts focus as a company; and I am also okay if it does not
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,379
I hated the way the article was written but it was very informative. The comparison's to a pyramid scheme really stuck with me.
 

ManNR

Member
Feb 13, 2019
2,966
All of this is very sad.

The world is endlessly complex and then we humans go an build a world on top of it that ends up being even more impossible to understand.

Meanwhile people just like you and me live, die, flourish, starve, manipulate others, and are manipulated.