The Game Industry Is Choking Itself To Death (The Jimquisition)

Deleted member 8593 · Mar 5, 2019

Jim muddies his argument a bit by lumping open-world, GaaS and live services together but I think his larger point still stands. Everyone is competing for our attention and the time you need to invest in a game is trending upwards. I say invest because that's often what it feels like playing these games with their open worlds, 30h+ story modes, weekly events etc.

Not everyone is gonna want to stick with every game for a year plus. More often than not I choose to skip a game because I don't have the energy or time to play it for longer periods of time while missing out on tons of other games in the meantime.

ArkkAngel007 · Mar 5, 2019

I can agree somewhat. This trend lately of everything needing to be a heavily involved GaaS with a mix of paid and free seasons and weekly resets is quite limiting on the industry as far as consumers go. While APEX is something imo to be celebrated, EA releasing it and Anthem in tandem is a bit of a headscratcher unless you subscribe to thoughts of there being a lack of confidence in Anthem. I find myself skipping games like Assassin's Creed, Destiny, Divisiom, and Anthem because I can't justify devoting all that time to one game for two years when dozens of great and arguably better titles are available.

Luckily, there are plenty of games and companies who overall provide a more stable outlook. Capcom and Bethesda have mostly done well in providing more traditional and contained games, as have Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. The indie scene gets better and better. Hopefully the bubble bursts to where stronger, contained games are looked on favorably by publishers.

Interficium · Mar 5, 2019

Clearly the solution is for publishers to pivot from GAAS and throw all their money into the kinds of single player experiences that ResetEra users love to complain are not enough of but then refuse to buy unless they're one of the two or sometimes three "GOTY" first-party titles that come out in any particular year.

Minky · Mar 5, 2019

Nice video, though I feel applying that title to the whole industry is a little bit inaccurate; perhaps narrowing it down to just "The AAA Games Industry Is Choking Itself to Death" or "Games as a Service Is Choking the AAA Games Industry to Death" would be much less hyperbolic... Though even with that said, I can't really agree that it's accurate to say it's at the level of "choking itself to death" yet either. Regardless, his core arguments and points are good and the video was entertaining as always.

(and props for reminding me that Oakie Doke existed)

Deleted member 3058 · Mar 5, 2019

Switch said:
Funny when this was meant to be the generation of no good games to play. I like the irony of now there's too much.

Wait, who said that?

Bloodborne, Witcher 3, and Zelda: Breath of the Wild were all early releases this gen and are amongst my favorite games of all time.

Deleted member 176 · Mar 5, 2019

Gattsu25 said:
Wait, who said that?

Bloodborne, Witcher 3, and Zelda: Breath of the Wild were all early releases this gen and are amongst my favorite games of all time.

2014 was a dark year.

Servbot24 · Mar 5, 2019

Devil May Cry V and Sekiro coming soon to a store near you.

shaneo632 · Mar 5, 2019

I think a lot of people can make their gaming lives easier by being comfortable with missing things. I play most games to the end of the campaign then move on; I almost never return to games or engage with the GaaS nonsense. You don't have to milk them for every dull drop. It helps that I'm like the furthest thing from an addictive personality type I guess. The "OCD loop" they try to create in these games just doesn't work for me at all. I hate grinding.

I generally play/try about 100 games a year so I rarely spend more than 20 hours on a single one, usually a LOT less than that.

Yasuke · Mar 5, 2019

Border said:
Play hot single player games when they are available.
Play your favorite GAAS titles when there are no big campaign based titles to focus on

This was basically me from Destiny's release in 2014 to about the end of 2017 when I finally dropped it.

Hell, summer 2015, I managed to put about 200 hours into Witcher 3 and platinum Arkham Knight, all while running Destiny raids and nightfalls religiously.

Deleted member 3058 · Mar 5, 2019

Brock Reiher said:
2014 was a dark year.

That year saw The Talos Principal, Divinity Original Sin, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Wolfenstein: The New Order, Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze, Infamous Second Son, Shadow of Mordor, Alien Isolation, Shovel Knight, Destiny, and The Evil Within

Sounds like a pretty great year to me.

The Talos Principal and Divinity Original Sin alone would make that a banner year.

Deleted member 176 · Mar 5, 2019

Gattsu25 said:
That year saw The Talos Principal, Divinity Original Sin, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Wolfenstein: The New Order, Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze, Infamous Second Son, Shadow of Mordor, Alien Isolation, Shovel Knight, Destiny, and The Evil Within

Sounds like a pretty great year to me.

The Talos Principal and Divinity Original Sin alone would make that a banner year.

Uhh... I guess those two and Tropical Freeze are good? Inquisition and Mordor in particular are some of the main reasons the year had such a bad reputation at the time.

Shovel Knight was on 3DS

Deleted member 13101 · Mar 5, 2019

oni-link said:
We're not getting 1 a week, but we did for February 2019, and even so, more and more games are trying to be 500 hour long GaaS titles that developers want players to keep coming back to over and over for potentially years

The show is still topical, last week it was on THQ, which blew up last week, and this week it was looking at the titles released in February as a whole to highlight a wider trend of everyone in the AAA space shooting for a huge GaaS title

I'm not saying another THQ video wouldn't be warranted, but he's seemingly damned whatever he does. He's accused of repeating himself already so I doubt he was super keen on doing a second THQ video in a row unless he has anything new to add to the conversation

If he feels damned whatever he does, that's too bad. Having to continuously satisfy an audience that can consume media way faster than one can produce it is an occupational hazard of streamers, musicians, youtubers, authors even. The demand for more, or more of "this" kind of content or more of "that" kind of content is always there.

But if half his income-generating audience doesn't want to watch how Nintendo Is Killing It or the impact of a THQ AMA, but will show up for this type of content that does repeat itself time after time, then seeking a broader higher-weekly-average audience is something he may want to look into doing, if he really wants to make more of that content. I just remember the time of a better, smarter Jimquisition is all.

Jessie · Mar 5, 2019

The industry is amazing right now as long as you ignore the AAA Multiplayer Game of the Year. Those games aren't even bad, they're just exhausting and cause gamer burnout.

Deleted member 3058 · Mar 5, 2019

Brock Reiher said:
Uhh... I guess those two and Tropical Freeze are good? Inquisition and Mordor in particular are some of the main reasons the year had such a bad reputation at the time.

Shovel Knight was on 3DS

I enjoyed every game I listed.

Wolfenstein, in particular, was fucking amazing.

And I think you're underestimating just how many people enjoyed Mordor.

I guess I just don't share the apathy 🤷🏾‍♂️

oni-link · Mar 5, 2019

Wonderment said:
If he feels damned whatever he does, that's too bad. Having to continuously satisfy an audience that can consume media way faster than one can produce it is an occupational hazard of streamers, musicians, youtubers, authors even. The demand for more, or more of "this" kind of content or more of "that" kind of content is always there.

But if half his income-generating audience doesn't want to watch how Nintendo Is Killing It or the impact of a THQ AMA, but will show up for this type of content that does repeat itself time after time, then seeking a broader higher-weekly-average audience is something he may want to look into doing, if he really wants to make more of that content. I just remember the time of a better, smarter Jimquisition is all.

I don't know if he feels like he's damned no matter what he does, but if you look at just Era he seems to be damned whatever he does, positive or negative, new or old topic, someone will complain

The fact he does still make positive content or less popular content I think does show he does enjoy making that kind of video

If it was all cynical and money driven then why even bother making anything except the negative content?

I don't remember the show being smarter years ago, it may have been, it's not like I go back and watch 5 year old episodes, but it seems to have been pretty consistent in style, content and substance over the years

If anything I think the viewers are the ones who are likely to have changed, if people stop caring about things they have accepted now then it's probably annoying to have someone who keeps banging on about it

Grim · Mar 5, 2019

He's right.

Some of these games have interesting premises that draw people in (the world, etc) but they don't necessarily have to be GaAS, but they end up being modelled that way. They don't offer good single player experiences for people to be satisfied and their entire model is centered around taking up the majority of your time. Add in the fact that a lot of them have "weeklys" that net you gear and if you miss out on a week then you're "behind" to some extent.

I had to tell my friends across Fortnite, Apex, Anthem and the upcoming Division 2 that I won't be playing Fortnite or purchasing Division, that's too many (fun) games for me to pay attention to.

Meia · Mar 5, 2019

SG-17 said:
And yet we have examples like Ace Combat 7 which is an 8 hour campaign (with a lot of replay value) that sold at $60 and broke franchise records and exceeded publisher expectations.

Yep, this is why while I agree with most of Jim's points, I don't think we're in a vastly dangerous situation for single player games, which is one of the things he worries about in the video. I understand why Hennig says that it would be more difficult to release an Uncharted like series right now(big AAA single player game that's not a new franchise that people don't know about), but enough single player games have come out that have done well that I don't think there's too much for concern yet.

I mean, shit, while Persona/Nier/Monster Hunter aren't new series(some way more older than others), it does bear mentioning that the newest games in those series have seen the biggest sales they have in their respective franchises. A GaaS industry could just make people more hungry for these types of games, and I think that's what we're seeing(hello RE2 numbers).

That being said, publishers get in the way and usually seek to ruin things by wanting ALL of the money, not just some/most of it, so who knows what other games(Star Wars) or developers(Bioware) have been drastically harmed by them wanting to push more money making things into games that shouldn't have them.

Servbot24 · Mar 5, 2019

Interficium said:
Clearly the solution is for publishers to pivot from GAAS and throw all their money into the kinds of single player experiences that ResetEra users love to complain are not enough of but then refuse to buy unless they're one of the two or sometimes three "GOTY" first-party titles that come out in any particular year.

Referring to anyone in particular?

Xero grimlock · Mar 5, 2019

TurtleRock said:
That is not how I remember things at all. Most people bought whatever was popular or heavily marketed. Maybe the PC market cared about these things because role playing games were prominent even back then, but the home console market was mostly arcade ports or Nintendo-hard games. Game length either didn't matter or wasn't really considered. I can't recall a single time anyone complained about the length of Super Mario Bros 3 or tried to argue Zelda was better because it was "longer."

i definitely remember length being brought up for consoles, though mainly for rpgs. Its definitely not a new development. I remember the ps1 era being one of the worst in this regard tons of reviews would mention how long a game was or boast how many discs of content.

Deleted member 176 · Mar 5, 2019

Gattsu25 said:
I enjoyed every game I listed.

Wolfenstein, in particular, was fucking amazing.

And I think you're underestimating just how many people enjoyed Mordor.

I guess I just don't share the apathy 🤷🏾‍♂️

I was under the impression that we were talking about the general consensus at the time, not personal opinions. With Bloodborne in particular you saw a lot of outlets saying that it was the game that finally justified a PS4 purchase.

BubblegumNemesis · Mar 5, 2019

It is not, we have indies to counterbalance AAA. A lot of AAA is shit, be it GaaS or "single player", there always is the Indie alternative for more savvy gamers. The masses will lap up any AAA because marketing, paid influencers and overly positive reviews (in some cases).

BassForever · Mar 5, 2019

BubblegumNemesis said:
It is not, we have indies to counterbalance AAA. A lot of AAA is shit, be it GaaS or "single player", there always is the Indie alternative for more savvy gamers. The masses will lap up any AAA because marketing, paid influencers and overly positive reviews (in some cases).

Spoken like someone who didn't watch the video. Jim addresses that point.

SaintBowWow · Mar 5, 2019

It's weird having Apex in this discussion when there's nothing incentivizing you to logging daily beyond just playing the game (though I do assume that will change when the Battle Pass drops). Right now it's just the hot thing to play so people are playing it, but there's no login bonuses or daily bounties to make you feel like you need to play every single day.

More Butter · Mar 5, 2019

Dardan Sandiego said:
Jim muddies his argument a bit by lumping open-world, GaaS and live services together but I think his larger point still stands. Everyone is competing for our attention and the time you need to invest in a game is trending upwards. I say invest because that's often what it feels like playing these games with their open worlds, 30h+ story modes, weekly events etc.

Not everyone is gonna want to stick with every game for a year plus. More often than not I choose to skip a game because I don't have the energy or time to play it for longer periods of time while missing out on tons of other games in the meantime.

I didn't watch the video. I really agree with your sentiment though. I have to miss out on games regularly these days that I am pretty interested in but I can't make the time commitment. I think that big games should exist but I can't partake in so many because of how they are designed. I'm more and more interested in guided narrative experiences and competence MP because I can take those in smaller doses.

BubblegumNemesis · Mar 5, 2019

BassForever said:
Spoken like someone who didn't watch the video. Jim addresses that point.

I saw the video... I just think it has always been like this with AAA.

oni-link · Mar 5, 2019

BubblegumNemesis said:
I saw the video... I just think it has always been like this with AAA.

Define 'always'

Indies have only been around for just over a decade and 10-15 years ago we had barely any games you could call GaaS titles outside of MMOs

FantaSoda · Mar 5, 2019

Markets self correct and I do believe that we are close to a dramatic correction point. Jim was completely on-point when talking about when the CoD craze was at it's apex, everyone was aping that style of game and over-saturated the market. The market self corrected and a lot of those games were commercial failures (and many studios closed in the wake of that).

I do believe we are starting to reach the upper limit of live services, but whether or not that is true totally depends on whether or not people stop buying them. No one ever seems to learn that you don't create the next big craze by just copying the current craze.

Jecht · Mar 5, 2019

Yeah I'm not with him on this one. This is such a games press only problem.

BubblegumNemesis · Mar 5, 2019

oni-link said:
Define 'always'

Indies have only been around for just over a decade and 10-15 years ago we had barely any games you could call GaaS titles outside of MMOs

"always" yeah well, not sure when AAA forked from indie, in the 80s almost everything was indie but slowly hollywood-type, graphics focussed games begane to emerge often with garbage gameplay. I guess mid 90s? Rise of the Robots? :)

KiLAM · Mar 5, 2019

I know that Jim didn't like Metro Exodus but I really don't think it belongs in that group. It's a 15 hour mostly linear story driven game with no microtransactions or tacked on RPG elements at all. It's exactly the type of game publishers don't want to make anymore.

inpHilltr8r · Mar 5, 2019

oni-link said:
Indies have only been around for just over a decade

lol, oh my god that's hilariously out of touch with history

HylianSeven · Mar 5, 2019

Astra Planeta said:
I still don't think Apex competes with Anthem. One is BR, one caters to PVE players.

He said he wasn't talking about them being the same genre, and acknowledged they are different genres, he was just pointing out how they are both GaaS games by EA competing for your time.

I don't think GaaS games, especially free to play ones, are inherently bad, but Jim has a point where flooding the market with them is dangerous. Stuff like mobile games does bother me. I'm talking about all the mobile game tropes: two types of currency, one you pay for and one that is worth a lot less and free, having to collect a "daily reward" from something, gacha, etc. I love Apex Legends in particular, but I don't care for the loot boxes, and the thing that bothers me more than those are the fact that two characters are locked behind a grind or paying real money. I really think it's problematic to have an actual advantage locked behind a pay/grind wall like that. Dota 2, while a completely different genre, has all heroes free all the time. If they even locked one or two heroes behind a paywall, it would be a huge disadvantage for those that didn't want to pay. Dota 2 also has loot boxes though which I also don't care for, but I also think their implemention of them is much more fair than many others games' loot boxes (shows you all possible items, you don't get duplicates until you get each of the main items in the box, and you have a chance of getting one of the rare things alongside one of the regular items.

Astra Planeta · Mar 5, 2019

Why do people feel the need to play every game and do everything in them? At this point the games industry is so large, you can just pick and choose what you want to play. I don't get how having too many choices is a problem

Mirage · Mar 5, 2019

Astra Planeta said:
Why do people feel the need to play every game and do everything in them? At this point the games industry is so large, you can just pick and choose what you want to play. I don't get how having too many choices is a problem.

I mean that's the point. People will pick and choose, they won't play everything. So why try and push so many things in a similar window or even the same day with far cry and metro.

Astra Planeta · Mar 5, 2019

HylianSeven said:
He said he wasn't talking about them being the same genre, and acknowledged they are different genres, he was just pointing out how they are both GaaS games by EA competing for your time.

I don't think GaaS games, especially free to play ones, are inherently bad, but Jim has a point where flooding the market with them is dangerous. Stuff like mobile games does bother me. I'm talking about all the mobile game tropes: two types of currency, one you pay for and one that is worth a lot less and free, having to collect a "daily reward" from something, gacha, etc. I love Apex Legends in particular, but I don't care for the loot boxes, and the thing that bothers me more than those are the fact that two characters are locked behind a grind or paying real money. I really think it's problematic to have an actual advantage locked behind a pay/grind wall like that. Dota 2, while a completely different genre, has all heroes free all the time. If they even locked one or two heroes behind a paywall, it would be a huge disadvantage for those that didn't want to pay. Dota 2 also has loot boxes though which I also don't care for, but I also think their implemention of them is much more fair than many others games' loot boxes (shows you all possible items, you don't get duplicates until you get each of the main items in the box, and you have a chance of getting one of the rare things alongside one of the regular items.

In Apex though, the locked heroes arent any better than the ones you get for free. Its not a disadvantage. DOTA has so many hard counters it would be terrible to have heroes locked. I am not a loot box fan either, but Apex does do it pretty much perfectly.

Kin5290 · Mar 5, 2019

Mirage said:
I mean that's the point. People will pick and choose, they won't play everything. So why try and push so many things in a similar window or even the same day with far cry and metro.

Because the games industry, especially the AAA games industry, isn't some monolithic cabal manipulating gamers from the shadows. It's a series of fractious rivals trying to compete for your dollar. Why release Metro Exodus and Far Cry New Dawn on the same day you ask? Because both Deep Silver and Ubisoft would like your purchase and are competing to earn a sale.

pirata · Mar 5, 2019

It is getting really concerning that big-budget games in the West are all trying to be continuing platforms rather than self-contained experiences. Publishers seem increasingly obsessed with getting players to stick around spending time and paying money on one thing for years rather than offering more new experiences. Not to mention that this causes games to feel both bloated with content, yet incomplete.

The way the industry is going, with an increased focus on GaaS and e-sports and the like makes me feel like doubling down on Japanese and indie games. The way Western publishers want me to play games is not the way I want to play games.

Good thing my backlog is practically infinite at this point, lol.

Lothars · Mar 5, 2019

HylianSeven said:
He said he wasn't talking about them being the same genre, and acknowledged they are different genres, he was just pointing out how they are both GaaS games by EA competing for your time.

I don't think GaaS games, especially free to play ones, are inherently bad, but Jim has a point where flooding the market with them is dangerous.

I don't agree, Jim's point is pretty off base. People pick and choose what they want to play free to play or not to play a game. People stick to whatever game they want to play. It has always change but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing that games want you to keep coming back to them. Jim Misses the point but that shouldn't be surprising anymore.

pirata said:
The way the industry is going, with an increased focus on GaaS and e-sports and the like makes me feel like doubling down on Japanese and indie games. The way Western publishers want me to play games is not the way I want to play games.

Than don't, there are plenty of games to play that you will enjoy as well.

oni-link · Mar 5, 2019

inpHilltr8r said:
lol, oh my god that's hilariously out of touch with history

Fair enough, I mean indies as in how we see indie games today, which started in the mid to late 2000s

I'm aware independent games have been around since the very beginning

I didn't think I needed to make that clear, but obviously I should have done

jelly · Mar 5, 2019

I've actually been enjoying going back to some 360 games I missed, not necessarily because they have less fluff but that aspect is quite refreshing.

pirata · Mar 5, 2019

Lothars said:
Than don't, there are plenty of games to play that you will enjoy as well.

Alright then. I'll avoid new AAA Western games. As will others who value variety or who prefer shorter single-player games. Or those too invested in existing GaaS or multiplayer games. Which will be more and more people going forward.

Sounds a little unsustainable for the industry, huh?

regenhuber · Mar 5, 2019

cowbanana said:
Great points from Jim, as usual. I couldn't agree more.

IDK..... not the strongest video from Jim (imo).
Not really a new thing that game releases are clustered on the calendar.
Moreover, he assumes that EA, Activision and co. expect every consumer to play all these games or rather needs them too.

jred250 said:
Markets self correct and I do believe that we are close to a dramatic correction point. Jim was completely on-point when talking about when the CoD craze was at it's apex, everyone was aping that style of game and over-saturated the market. The market self corrected and a lot of those games were commercial failures (and many studios closed in the wake of that).

I do believe we are starting to reach the upper limit of live services, but whether or not that is true totally depends on whether or not people stop buying them. No one ever seems to learn that you don't create the next big craze by just copying the current craze.

Yeah, that's where I'm at. These are just companies trying to figure out how big the pie actually is. Once they find out that the pie can only feed so many people, they'll figure out something new.

feroca · Mar 5, 2019

King of Dreamland said:
He's got a strong point, and why this console generation has me fatigued in terms of what games they've offered; were it not for the amazing single-player games of 2017, I would be upset by it all around.

Fighting games have stopped producing games with a lot of content and instead now focus on the eSports aspects

The top selling fighting games of this gen (Mortal Kombat X, Injustice 2 and Smash) had tons of content and are usually relegated on eSports and or around online communities (animations, animations, not a real fighting game + not Melee). Mortal Kombat 11 continues this.

Plus, there were quite amazing single players before 2017 too.

Lashley · Mar 5, 2019

He's right, games are starting to take the piss with how much time they demand from you, the benefit to this I guess is that I've started playing more indie games as a result.

KINGOFSHIBUYA Ltd. · Mar 5, 2019

muteKi said:
I do dislike that the market has a hatred of a long-tail approach, but then that's the short-term focus of public trading coming to a head again. A game ought to have as good a reception coming out today as it should a month from now if there are no other changes to it (i.e., tightening up the graphics on level 3) given that it's an extra month for people to buy, play, and discuss the game. Games don't really have the same market as films where the cinema itself has only so many theaters to show and in that respect timing releases actually matters; you don't need to own 12 consoles to play 12 different games in a week.

On paper: sure it's definitely possible and even happens sometimes.
In reality: it's not likely, and most games need to make most of their revenue in their first week out, lest they be forgotten in the constant deluge of PR cycles and new releases.

It's really unlikely that the game with the Metal Gear series's character artist (I forget its name completely) is going to get patched and find a new audience a month from now with a much more refined game.

It shouldn't be like theaters, but more often than not, it is. Occasionally, we get a Fortnite, and it makes a comeback much later.

Switch · Mar 5, 2019

Gattsu25 said:
Wait, who said that?

Bloodborne, Witcher 3, and Zelda: Breath of the Wild were all early releases this gen and are amongst my favorite games of all time.

This gen has been amazing, but at the start, many made out there wasn't anything but High Def versions of 360/PS3 games and how the mobile market was going to take over from the console

scitek · Mar 5, 2019

Game publishers want to move away from the traditional model - selling you a game at $60, then trickling out DLC to keep you coming back - and more toward the subscription based model. Whether that's through something like GamePass or EA Access, or through F2P or GaaS doesn't really matter. It's a much more reliable, steady source of income than the traditional system, which is very front-loaded when it comes to sales, and much riskier by comparison. The main problem I have with this is most of these games require an internet connection, meaning at some point they won't be playable anymore. I've been on a real retro kick lately, and the idea that many of today's popular games will be little more than a wikipedia entry in a decade is depressing.

Lothars · Mar 5, 2019

pirata said:
Alright then. I'll avoid new AAA Western games. As will others who value variety or who prefer shorter single-player games. Or those too invested in existing GaaS or multiplayer games. Which will be more and more people going forward.

Sounds a little unsustainable for the industry, huh?

Nope It's not because there are just as many if not more that enjoy those types of games and games will be replaced. Fortnite is not going to be on top forever, It doesn't mean that games can't coexist and it's definitely not unsustainable.

Saucycarpdog · Mar 5, 2019

SaintBowWow said:
It's weird having Apex in this discussion when there's nothing incentivizing you to logging daily beyond just playing the game (though I do assume that will change when the Battle Pass drops). Right now it's just the hot thing to play so people are playing it, but there's no login bonuses or daily bounties to make you feel like you need to play every single day.

Apex is getting a battle pass this month. I'm sure daily challenges or something like them will be implemented too.

I disagree people are just playing it cause "it's the hot new thing." Believe it or not, a lot of people like BR games and Apex is arguably the best one yet.

Lashley · Mar 5, 2019

Saucycarpdog said:
Apex is getting a battle pass this month. I'm sure daily challenges or something like them will be implemented too.

It 100% will, same as Fortnite.

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