• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

AranPrime

Banned
Sep 25, 2021
279
So I have a real unpopular opinion when it comes to Final Fantasy, that being that there is no truly great Final Fantasy game.

The first one I ever played was XIII, which I somehow trudge through for 60 hours, telling myself that surely I'm missing something and wanting to give my first entry the benefit of a doubt. Nope, it just sucks. Then I played IV, which is alright. I like how nonsensical, almost child-like, the story is, but the gameplay is very stale with very little flexibility from the player's part. Then came the fan favorite, VI. This is a game where so much about it is exceptional but the actual gameplay is only serviceable. It's a shame that a game with such a large roster of weird and eccentric personalities ends with all of them spamming Ultima spells. Nevertheless, I would consider VI to be a really good game that falls short of greatness. Something that can't be said for VII, which aside from its majestic OST, is mediocre from beginning to end. It has all the issues from VI but with none of the positives. There's a few neat storytelling moments, such as the brief moment of playable Sephiroth, but overall it's just some middle of the road anime. I then came across V, which may in fact be my favorite. The gameplay and customization was actually enjoyable for once and for all the flack the story gets for not being serious enough, I welcomed the lightheartedness of it as it almost came across as a spoof on the series' storytelling cliches. It still had a few shortcomings that kept it from being great, such as some the dungeon design and how needlessly serious the story gets later on, antithetical to its comedic beginnings. Finally, I also played Tactics, which I liked but couldn't stand how unbalanced and grindy it was. I actually stopped playing right at the beginning of chapter 4. So yes, I did get past Wiegraf. Fuck that fight.

So after a handful of mainline games and a beloved spin-off, I had simply decided that the fans of this series and I, probably don't meet eye to eye. Half of these games were flawed but enjoyable while the other half was just flawed. Still, due to every mainline entry being so different, I was still interested in checking a few more out. Two games in particular caught my eye. The first was XII, which I still haven't played, but am intrigued by its systems. The other one is what this thread is all about. Hironobu Sakaguchi's personal favorite entry; Final Fantasy IX.

Let's cut to the chase: The first disc of FF9 is an utter masterpiece. Playing it for the first time, I really felt like I was playing Sakaguchi's magnum opus. From the immaculate pacing to the synergy between the gameplay and the story, this was poised to be the culmination of everything the series had been building up to. Even the skill system fixed my issues with 6 and 7 where every character played virtually the same. The cast of four had incredible chemistry with Steiner being perhaps my favorite character in the series. And the cities/towns were an absolute highlight, up there with the best from Dragon Quest. I was giddy with excitement for the rest of the game. The type of excitement that only comes around once in a while, when you're in the early parts of a game/film/show and everything is already absolutely sublime, so you expect to either keep it at that level or, better yet, somehow get more incredible. Finally, I thought to myself, a great Final Fantasy game.

And then disc 2 happens.

What follows is a slow and gradual decline that still hurts to remember. FF9 is a good game, maybe even the best in the series, but it could have been so much more.

The first clue that I got that something was wrong was when the cast visits Cleyra, a city that the game had build up continuously as impenetrable, only for it to be eviscerated in a matter of minutes. This felt to me like a lost opportunity where the game never managed to truly convey the city's status as a stronghold in a tangible manner. But still, this was simply a small misstep, nothing to worry about I said. And then the main characters use magical teleporters that are conveniently installed on the enemy's airship to rejoin the other party member's. And this is when I started getting worried. This felt like a such a cheap asspull from the writers to reunite the party in the most nonsensical way. Why the fuck would these transporters be there and why wouldn't the enemies use them as well? What's even the point of having airships if you can instantly teleport to other locations? This unfortunately set a precedent for what was to follow for the rest of the game.

Oh look, Garnet lost her voice, how dramatic. Except she gets it back in less than an hour.

Here's Amarant, he's a badass who's gonna join your team and he sure seems mysterious. Except he has no personality whatsoever and is completely pointless.

Zidane is just a charming rogue character who goes against the archetypes of the previous melodramatic protagonists. Except he's actually a clone, or something, from an alternate dimension and this gives him an existential crisis that's just a repeat of Cloud's.

Here's Garnet and Eiko's backstory as summoners, this sure seems important to the overall narrative. Nah, forget all about that and let's focus on this dimension warping villain.

Boy I sure hope we get more info on Freya. Nope, the writers forgot she ever existed.

Wow, I love how operatic and gleeful Kuja is as a villain, almost feels like a satire on Sephiroth. Surely they won't do anything wrong with him. Oh what's that, he's also a clone from a different dimension and he also goes through a generic existential crisis. Well, Fuck Me.

And so on and so forth. FF9 was at its most elegant and masterful when it kept things simple. I truly wish the cast was kept at 4 with Zidane, Garnet, Vivi and Steiner since they're also the only ones the plot develops in any significant way. The chemistry between them was magnetic whereas every additional member felt underused in comparison. There are still moments in the latter parts of the game that manage to briefly recapture the game's earlier sense of magic but they are far and few.

In summation, I like FF9 overall and I adore the first disc specifically. So much so that I wish the rest of the game was just as great.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,541
Nah, there's plenty of excellent stuff on the later discs. The whole You Are Not Alone segment is on a later disc. Memoria. The crowning of Garnet and the attack on Alexandria. Zidane's rescue. Great stuff.

You keep talking about the Genome stuff like it's innately ridiculous somehow, but that's a pretty low key curve for a Final Fantasy game. It's not even a different "dimension", just another planet.
 
OP
OP
AranPrime

AranPrime

Banned
Sep 25, 2021
279
Nah, there's plenty of excellent stuff on the later discs. The whole You Are Not Alone segment is on a later disc. Memoria. The crowning of Garnet and the attack on Alexandria. Zidane's rescue. Great stuff.
You know, it sure would be great if you read what I wrote instead of jumping to conclusions. I acknowledge that there are some great moments later on, but they are far and few and are often not too far from moments of weak writing.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,794
Argentina
I actually loved disc 2 but I'm with you that it falls apart after it (Odin is my favourite summon so what happens to Cleyra was actually ok with me lol)

Disc 1 is The Fellowship of the Ring in video game form, just excellence.
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,652
No, they are all great and I don't like you
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever™
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,533
The rest of the game is phenomenal as the story peels back to reveal that the events of the Mist Continent and Disc 1 are just a small part of interplanetary warfare being carried out by Kuja. I think this happens with many JRPGs where people fall in love with the small, focused, vertical slice of the game's world (Final Fantasy examples being Midgar, Balamb Garden, Mist Continent) but then don't have as much appreciation for the events that reach a global scale.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,541
You know, it sure would be great if you read what I wrote instead of jumping to conclusions. I acknowledge that there are some great moments later on, but they are far and few and are often not too far from moments of weak writing.

I read what you wrote, I just disagree with it. What you wrote is dripping with sarcasm and you call out "weak writing" but you don't really say anything substantive about what makes it weak, especially when compared with other games in the series. What you're calling out are fairly common themes in the series. It's true that some of the characters aren't that well developed, but Garnet, Freya, and Kuja certainly aren't among them.

I get that you really want people to be as angry about the game's story and plot as you are, but if you're going to make a thread like this you should be prepared to defend your arguments civilly.
 

aett

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,029
Northern California
I've said the same thing about FFIX dropping significantly in quality post-disc 1 since 2000. For me, in addition to the lack of character development (or rushing through some of it incredibly fast), it's the boring and ugly world outside of the Mist Continent that bugs me. So many brown, empty areas. Apart from the dwarves and the recently-formed Black Mage village, there's no sign of civilization anywhere... except for the temple at Mt. Gulg, for some reason (where do those people live?) and the optional library area late in the game.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,625
I love how different discs 1 and 2 feel, with all the perspective shifts. Disc 3 is okay and disc 4 kind of jumps the shark apart from the ending.

Fucking adore the game still though. Easily top FF for me.
 

Jetsun Mila

User requested ban
Banned
Apr 7, 2021
3,008
There are some spots that irked me before you reach disc 2, or maybe that was in disc 2, too long ago. For example the constant party splitting, especially when you lose your only healer after a while.
But all in all later parts felt like rushed development. The two continents on the left barely have anything in them. Still enjoyed my time massively and it's in the Top 5 Final Fantasy games.
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,932
The drop in quality for me doesn't come until after Kuja's Palace, the third continent is kind of boring and I'm not a huge fan of where the story goes. I do have similar complaints about both FF 7 and 8, and I guess you could add 6 and 12 to that as well

Edit - I would point out I think all 5 games are excellent, even in their weaker halves
 
Last edited:

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,853
I enjoyed the later parts more than the first disc a lot more. The game is way too easy/simple early on although I did like the set pieces/cutscenes.

The last third does suck though.
 

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
I agree with you OP. And back on PS1, having to deal with the loadings and the slow fights wasn't good at all.

FF9 has a cool setting, some good music, but it's by far the weakest FF on PS1 in my opinion.
 

pompo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,284
There are some spots that irked me before you reach disc 2, or maybe that was in disc 2, too long ago. For example the constant party splitting, especially when you lose your only healer after a while.
But all in all later parts felt like rushed development. The two continents on the left barely have anything in them. Still enjoyed my time massively and it's in the Top 5 Final Fantasy games.
The constant party changes is one of the few things I dislike about FFIX, and that doesn't really get any better until disc 3
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,460
Ireland
I don't think I have a favourite disc but I really love how 1, 2 and 3 all feel so different from each other and contribute to the overall journey differently.

Disc 1 is the best for storytelling and sets the stage perfectly, though it's also very linear and a lot less fun to replay.
Disc 2 broadens the world and characters, it's a little more open but still restrictive within certain areas.
Disc 3 opens everything up and finally gives the player choices on their party, destinations, flight and all the side quests and mini games.

I actually like the forced party changes throughout the first 2 discs as well, its a great mechanism for giving the player opportunities to get familiar with the different characters in battle without feeling like you're making your team weaker so nobody gets Cait Sith'd.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,541
There are some spots that irked me before you reach disc 2, or maybe that was in disc 2, too long ago. For example the constant party splitting, especially when you lose your only healer after a while.
But all in all later parts felt like rushed development. The two continents on the left barely have anything in them. Still enjoyed my time massively and it's in the Top 5 Final Fantasy games.

If you read the article that was posted on Playstation Blog this week, it wasn't rushed development so much as limited disc space.

If they did do a remake, I'd hope it would give them an opportunity to flesh out the Forgotten Continent a bit more.
 

Pendas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,717
I enjoyed the game up to Garnet's coronation. After that, it just turns into complete schlock with Zidane / Kuja's twist, different planets, super-mega forms... the typical JRPG final boss BS where they keep trying to raise the stakes until the final boss is a fight to save all of reality. The story goes from grounded to batshit insane so quick.
 

Mattersnotnow

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,003
I don't pay my ISP bills to read this.
Please stop breaking my heart with your words.

In any case, even if I don't agree with your assessment I do think think the biggest problem with most FF games is that the gameplay (at least the biggest piece of it, the battle system) gets repetitive, I think the systems around it are fun a lot of the time, V , VII, tactics, X, X-2, XIII. But it does get repetitive with the exception of specific encounters.
 
OP
OP
AranPrime

AranPrime

Banned
Sep 25, 2021
279
I read what you wrote, I just disagree with it. What you wrote is dripping with sarcasm and you call out "weak writing" but you don't really say anything substantive about what makes it weak, especially when compared with other games in the series. What you're calling out are fairly common themes in the series. It's true that some of the characters aren't that well developed, but Garnet, Freya, and Kuja certainly aren't among them.

I get that you really want people to be as angry about the game's story and plot as you are, but if you're going to make a thread like this you should be prepared to defend your arguments civilly.
Why the hell would I want others to be angry? If others have a different perspective about it, they can share and compare it with my own. That's what a thread is for. And since when did I signal what I wrote as an argument? It's merely a recount of my experience with the game.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,541
Why the hell would I want others to be angry? If others have a different perspective about it, they can share and compare it with my own. That's what a thread is for. And since when did I signal what I wrote as an argument? It's merely a recount of my experience with the game.

Your tone and wording, mainly. It came off more as an angry rant than as an invitation for discussion. But fair enough.

My perspective is very different. The broadening of the story's scope in later chapters, which seems to be most of what you take issue with, is standard fare in Final Fantasy (and JRPGs to be honest) and by no means a particular trait of IX. I really enjoyed that the game gave Zidane a personal crisis to grapple with in the latter parts: he's an enthusiastic cheerleader for his friends during the rest of the game throughout all their own struggles, and I felt it brought balance that the story gives them all a chance to repay his kindness. And I'd argue that Kuja's nihilistic turn at the end has more weight behind it than Sephiroth's or Kefka's ever did.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,065
Why the hell would I want others to be angry? If others have a different perspective about it, they can share and compare it with my own. That's what a thread is for. And since when did I signal what I wrote as an argument? It's merely a recount of my experience with the game.
This thread feels weird. Maybe it's just how I'm interpreting your tone, but it comes off as aggressive. And I'm not sure why you called out that post to begin with, it seemed reasonable to me.
 
Nov 19, 2019
10,231
Zidane is just a charming rogue character who goes against the archetypes of the previous melodramatic protagonists. Except he's actually a clone, or something, from an alternate dimension and this gives him an existential crisis that's just a repeat of Cloud's.
I never liked Zidane, but good on you for pointing out how utterly forced, pointless, and weird this whole twist was. There was no need to give Zidane some dark fate or existential connection to the greater narrative: he was already critical to the plot because of...y'know...the first hour of the game.

Your takes on the FF series as a whole are interesting, so I was eager to read why you--at least temporarily--saw FF9 as the best of the lot. I actually consider FF9 to be one of the worst games in the entire series.
 
Feb 5, 2018
2,949
Honestly, all my favorite FFs are ones you didn't mention so I can't vibe with this thread lol.

If you can, play X, XII and XIV. These are the peak games to me for various reasons (be it story beats, gameplay, pacing, etc). X imo still has the best story and XII the gameplay, and XIV is the best of both worlds when it comes to a persistent online game. And it's basically a single player story anyway, and a great one at that. I'd suggest XI Online as well for its story/content but actually getting into and playing the game is beyond archaic, I'm not sure if it's worth it. But also not a bad time either.

XV imo is also good, simply if not for its presentation, music and banger of an ending. If you can get past it's faults (i.e. cut content/story), then its a pretty good game. XVI looks very promising, on the account of Yoshi P. developing that one as he has with XIV


I never really enjoyed classic FF (1-9), but that is my fault simply because I was exposed to FFX first so the level of expectation in RPGs was already pretty high for me back in the day and has been for me for years (hence why I can't stand any SMT games before Nocturne or Persona 3, and I personally only enjoyed DQ8 and 11). Imo they just haven't aged THAT well compared to the PS2 Era on.


Edit: I disagree about Tactics though. You play the PSP update or the original? Play the PSP one if you can.
 

We_care_a_lot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,157
Summerside PEI
Final Fantasy IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, XI, XII, XIV are all better games than IX.

So I find the premise of this thread kind of easily dismissible ie 'Final fantasy IX is probably the best final fantasy game but still not that great'

To me, your assessment of ix is correct, it's just your placing it at the top of the list in terms of quality, story, whatever it is you preferred about it doesn't jive with my views on the series, whatsoever.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,552
The opening few hours were ducking MAGIC when I played it as a kid. I couldn't believe how epic it was.

then the ending of disc one? So good. I'll ignore the shittiness that is Quina.

but man. You're super right. The game is just so average after that. FF games can just never stick the landing. They all go batshit crazy in the final third and I always hate it.
 

OmniStrife

Member
Dec 11, 2017
1,782
People are are too forgiving with 9... You're right, it becomes a little mediocre in its 2nd half.
Don't get me started on 8, it falls right of a cliff, the main twist and pay off is utter garbage.
Yet 6, & 7 are oVeRaTeD
 
OP
OP
AranPrime

AranPrime

Banned
Sep 25, 2021
279
Your tone and wording, mainly. It came off more as an angry rant than as an invitation for discussion. But fair enough.

My perspective is very different. The broadening of the story's scope in later chapters, which seems to be most of what you take issue with, is standard fare in Final Fantasy (and JRPGs to be honest) and by no means a particular trait of IX. I really enjoyed that the game gave Zidane a personal crisis to grapple with in the latter parts: he's an enthusiastic cheerleader for his friends during the rest of the game throughout all their own struggles, and I felt it brought balance that the story gives them all a chance to repay his kindness. And I'd argue that Kuja's nihilistic turn at the end has more weight behind it than Sephiroth's or Kefka's ever did.
I'd be okay with an increase in scope if it didn't mean that the previously established character struggles were flushed away. Once the whole dimension warping stuff happens, the whole deal with Freya and the history of the summoners gets totally forgotten about. Even Garrett's struggles as the new queen are basically forgotten a few hours into disc 3. It makes all the previous build up seem pointless.
 

Deleted member 511

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,676
I like how the OP made an interesting thread about some of the game's real problems and its just people replying with snippy 'You're wrong' one liners. Anyway, you bring up really good points OP. The game forgets about Freya and she just....exist for the rest of the game. Her arc never really has a satisfying conclusion on screen imo. I still have mixed feelings on Garnet losing her voice even if I get what they were going for more as an adult.

I also never really vibed with the reveal about Zidane either.
 
Feb 5, 2018
2,949
The opening few hours were ducking MAGIC when I played it as a kid. I couldn't believe how epic it was.

then the ending of disc one? So good. I'll ignore the shittiness that is Quina.

but man. You're super right. The game is just so average after that. FF games can just never stick the landing. They all go batshit crazy in the final third and I always hate it.
Ironically not the more recent games that OP hasn't played. X, XI, XII, XIV are very consistent games and stories. XV actually has a story that gets better as it gets more linear (which ironically is what people hated about it).

But 7-9 and 13 all do some weird shit with their plots lol.
 

starfoxxxy

Gravity Is Hard
Banned
Mar 13, 2021
6,488
I didn't like Zidanes story in the end, that was the main part of the game i hated
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,367
Midgar, With Love
Why the hell would I want others to be angry? If others have a different perspective about it, they can share and compare it with my own. That's what a thread is for. And since when did I signal what I wrote as an argument? It's merely a recount of my experience with the game.

Your two responses thus far have opened with "It sure would be great if" and "Why the hell." Your tone in these replies is incisive.

Reading the original post, my thoughts were, in essence, that while I disagree with you on nearly every level it might be fun to have a back-and-forth about various differing opinions since you didn't really write anything in-depth about the character arcs you disliked. Coming into the thread now for the first time, and seeing how you're replying to someone who may have felt similarly, I wouldn't be so eager to do so.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,294
I like FF9 but damn, I have to agree with your points lol.

Also, I have a strong feeling that you would love some of the mods that have been made for the series: Brave New World for FF6 and New Threat for FF7. The author of New Threat is also working on a similar mod for FF8. I would tell you to wait for that one to be out before playing FF8, because from your OP, I can already tell you that you would hate the gameplay of 8 lol.

Here's a thread I made on Brave New World if you want info on it.
 

AIan

Member
Oct 20, 2019
4,909
Actually I do agree with the Freya bit--always wondered what the future for her was going to be, but everything else is just Final Fantasy logic, I feel. I know there's a lot of dissatisfaction for Quina, Eiko, and Amarant as characters but I found qualities in all of them. IMO I like that they kept a few characters a mystery because it feels forced when games suddenly give a backstory on one--it makes me roll my eyes whenever that happens. Absolutely adore IX though so my bias is talking.
 

pbayne

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,460
The rest of the game is phenomenal as the story peels back to reveal that the events of the Mist Continent and Disc 1 are just a small part of interplanetary warfare being carried out by Kuja. I think this happens with many JRPGs where people fall in love with the small, focused, vertical slice of the game's world (Final Fantasy examples being Midgar, Balamb Garden, Mist Continent) but then don't have as much appreciation for the events that reach a global scale.

I think this is a good point and one that still holds true today. Like many people who love Persona 5 or something think that its concept peaks in the first arc of the game.

I could probably count on one hand the amount of games where i was as invested into the story in hour 60 as much as i was in hour 10.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever™
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,533
I think this is a good point and one that still holds true today. Like many people who love Persona 5 or something think that its concept peaks in the first arc of the game.

I could probably count on one hand the amount of games where i was as invested into the story in hour 60 as much as i was in hour 10.
Oh - that too. "Kamoshida's Palace is the only good one" 🙄haha