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I like a lot of this post but I would say don't sleep on XIV, even if you don't generally dig MMOs!
Shadowbringers is legit the most satisfying Final Fantasy product in like 15 years, narrative and all.
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The Final Fantasy series needs a core gameplay identity again
- Thread starter Spehornoob
- Start date
Shadowbringers is legit the most satisfying Final Fantasy product in like 15 years, narrative and all.
Well, how "much" should jou junction in a normal progression? When you see a new spell, a view times?
till you have 100? till all chars have 100?
You basically break disc 1 just by havin 100 aqua (1h of play) and junction it to strength with squall.
From the moment that balamb garden is usable, i found a view junction points for ultima
and squall got broken for the rest of the game.
I've replayed the game last year: 29 Hours, all G.F. almost maxed out, and for the last third my strategy was:
squall: Mug, make 6-8k damage.Occasionaly limit break. (maybe an aura cast)
Selphie: Heal squall.
Xell: do whatever. maybe draw? maybe attack? heal? i don't care.
And i have NOT used the card junction more than 2x (just for material for squals weapon). I played the cardgame for a view hours, but just for fun, didnt even start the quest.
The game was broken, unbalancable by default....and i love it for that. It is not a balanced game. The enemy variety is really small, only 6 characters, but it was fun to find broken combinations early on, in FF7 and 6 you had to wait for later game, and change your strategy more often.
A lot of people said that. I was always more a fan of the fantasy style of 6-9 (tech, more current day flaire, ...).
Its just... to be able to have fun with the content of shadowbringer i would need to play a MMO for hours on end, alone.
I dont have the right friends for that, not the right pc (13" thin and light, maybe on switch?), and won't model my play schedule around other people.
User Warned: Hostility
Not sure if you realize how sad this is, honestly.
If you're reading instructions and not trying to speed through the game like it's FF7, the playing card mechanic becomes obvious very quickly, as does the fact that refining cards is far, far more efficient than spending an hour drawing them from random encounters.
There's a reason those mechanics were included, and why Triple Triad is far more integrated into FF8 than Tetra Master is into FF9. The designers obviously can't plan for impossibly dense players, but I assume that's why the option to play it the "classic" way still exists, though it's not all that ideal.
That being said, the conversation has outlived it's usefulness. Enjoy yourselves.
I really don't have a horse in this race one or the other but thanks to you calling me 'impossibly dense' for missing out on a relatively non vital part of the gameplay (yes I was able to beat the game without card refining) I have no problem in telling you that you can go fuck yourself. Have a nice day.
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I think the rumor is that Yoshi-P's studio is working on the XVI. Though I don't know how directly involved he would be since he's pretty involved with XIV.
Monsters both have spells you can junction and drop items that can be refined into spells, if you discover the refining system at all which you really don't need to. Draw points, normal encounters, etc, these naturally give you more than enough to work with and smart junctioning can make your core party more than any monster can handle without exploring subsystems at all. Card Mod is not an emphasized gameplay system; the Draw system is. It's a system immediately available to you and heavily tutorialized which feeds directly into junctioning. By comparison, Card Mod is available only if you claim it, is one of many abilities that refine spells, and is completely unnecessary. Implying players are "impossibly dense" for missing it is a real bad look to be honest.
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The problem with transplanting XIV's system to a single play FF is that, for me, I really want to have some form of control over my party. And I don't think XIV's system allows for that. That's why I'm really psyched with what I've seen of VII Remake's combat system.
I'm with you on this, and would generally caution that while MMO combat feels great in MMOs and the specific sorts of group encounters designed around them, it generally doesn't feel great for a single-player experience. A rotation is a thing of beauty when it's being executed competitively with a large group that has to coordinate to survive, but it feels a lot like filing paperwork in a vacuum.
if it happens, it happens. As long as they commit to something, and dont do it halfhartedly like in FF15.
Octopath Travler was a great example for a Turn based system, Kindgome Hearts (and hopefully FF7) is a great example for Action based.
The general reviews and reception for Shadowbringers says otherwise.
Although it's probably not what you're looking for, VII: Remake does have full party control and a mode you can toggle that plays a lot like ATB.
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I legit felt like a kid again when I hit the end of Shadowbringers. I got the same feelings I used to get playing older FF games. Whatever they do with XVI, they should at least incorporate some of the writing team from XIV, because goddamn
I'll concede that. I should reframe it to include that I could not and will not ever care about MMORPGs. If that becomes the company's niche, then fair play.
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So please don't take this as pressuring you, because XIV won't change your mind on MMOs I'm sure, but for those of us who can stand that gameplay style, the story and narrative are peak Final Fantasy. It honestly restored some of my faith in the brand after pretty much not liking anything since XII, and its one of the reasons I'm keeping some optimism for the future of the series, starting with being a bit hyped for VII Remake.
Edit: I should clarify that it's the expansions where the narrative really begins to shine. The base game is okay, but can be a slog.
I agree and disagree at the same time.
I want the old... and I want the new.
On a larger note I think FF has lost it's identity... XV was alright but the world was just texas. with weird rock formations....
I think a bigger problem is how do you make a game more realistic without being boring.
I want the old... and I want the new.
On a larger note I think FF has lost it's identity... XV was alright but the world was just texas. with weird rock formations....
I think a bigger problem is how do you make a game more realistic without being boring.
So what you're saying is XVI needs to be a multiplayer game to succeed
No thank you. MMORPGs are not a thing I'm even remotely interested in, but I do appreciate what Shadowbringers has done for many people. It does receive a ton of Era support and praise.
Honestly a Comrades mode that's actually good as a supplement to a singleplayer FF is something I've wanted for a long time.
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Oh God I can't imagine the continuing arguments over this. It's already been hell with the VII Remake.
For real, I'd be up for a FINAL FANTASY subscription to replace the FFXIV sub that basically gives you access to all (and funds any future) MMOs.
Basically like how MS uses gamepass money to fund the development of their games.
I know that sounds like a nightmare scenario, but it's basically what we have at the moment with XIV, except also giving access to XI.
I think that'd encourage people to keep their subs running, and encourage SE to keep supporting and running past MMOs.
Basically like how MS uses gamepass money to fund the development of their games.
I know that sounds like a nightmare scenario, but it's basically what we have at the moment with XIV, except also giving access to XI.
I think that'd encourage people to keep their subs running, and encourage SE to keep supporting and running past MMOs.
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I'm kind of hoping they do add XI to the XIV sub as well, just because I'd like to give XI a real shot. But I also would prefer that they not make any new MMOs as long as XIV is still a huge success.
Also, I think I'd be fine but:
1. Don't make the combat super basic/uninteresting. I love Final Fantasy X but the combat is just so... ordinary and uninteresting. Pales in comparison to stuff like Baten Kaitos, Chrono Cross, Grandia, Resonance of Fate, Shadow Hearts, etc.
2. Don't make the gameplay heavily inspired by MMO's. Nothing like XII ever again, please. Idc what people here say, the actual combat of XII is boring as fucking sin no matter how you set it up
3. In terms of character progression, I LOVE stuff like the Sphere Grid and the Crystarium in XIII and XIII-2. Don't do anything like the License Board in XII again, or half-assed and almost useless like Ascension in XV
1. Don't make the combat super basic/uninteresting. I love Final Fantasy X but the combat is just so... ordinary and uninteresting. Pales in comparison to stuff like Baten Kaitos, Chrono Cross, Grandia, Resonance of Fate, Shadow Hearts, etc.
2. Don't make the gameplay heavily inspired by MMO's. Nothing like XII ever again, please. Idc what people here say, the actual combat of XII is boring as fucking sin no matter how you set it up
3. In terms of character progression, I LOVE stuff like the Sphere Grid and the Crystarium in XIII and XIII-2. Don't do anything like the License Board in XII again, or half-assed and almost useless like Ascension in XV
Oh yeah absolutely. But let's imagine in 10 years time when XIV is in its twilight years, and there likely is a new MMO out. I'd be way more likely to keep my sub running when I'm not active on FFXVII or whatever, if I know there'll be two more games to go back to in XI and XIV. Like way more likely.
I would honestly be fine with duologies, trilogies are a bit much tho
It wouldn't be too difficult to have character switching or even a 12 like gambit system.
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I really don't expect multi-parters to become the new normal for the series. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm taking Square at their word that the narrative and world of VII are just too damn big to remake with modern production values in one game.
Unless of course the VII-R series does insane gangbusters.
Those games were considered a golden age because the series was able to blend gameplay, story, and music perfectly.
It wasn't because the gameplay was the sole reason of its success and glamour. If that was the case 13-2 would be seen as one of the series best.
The argument for most modern games is the story is incomplete or incomprehensible because you need to study a encyclopedia to understand everything, the open world is cheap or linear, and other mechanics that we're used in other games don't make a return or aren't implemented in a satisfying way. That and the whole press X to win stuff people have been arguing about the games since 13.
The series is headed in the right direction where it needs to go. Final Fantasy was always fated to go from turn based to real time combat. Reverting back to the older mechanics is only regressing the series and not getting straight to the real issues plaguing the current games in series.
It wasn't because the gameplay was the sole reason of its success and glamour. If that was the case 13-2 would be seen as one of the series best.
The argument for most modern games is the story is incomplete or incomprehensible because you need to study a encyclopedia to understand everything, the open world is cheap or linear, and other mechanics that we're used in other games don't make a return or aren't implemented in a satisfying way. That and the whole press X to win stuff people have been arguing about the games since 13.
The series is headed in the right direction where it needs to go. Final Fantasy was always fated to go from turn based to real time combat. Reverting back to the older mechanics is only regressing the series and not getting straight to the real issues plaguing the current games in series.
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I'm not arguing to go back to turn-based. I'm arguing that some sort of base foundation of gameplay for the series should be established rather than reinventing the wheel every installment.
You guys have some sound ideas, we should start some kind of FF committee.
I'm more disappointed by the story telling than the battle systems. Just give me a coherent complete story INSIDE the game. No expanded media. Also SHOW me when stuff happens. Don't tell me. Three houses did this a lot. I understand if you want me to play a different route but don't just off handedly tell me "hey this important battle happened and blank died or lived".
FFXIV and DQ being in such a good place really softens the blow of mediocre FF games though. Plus Bravely Default is back.
FFXIV and DQ being in such a good place really softens the blow of mediocre FF games though. Plus Bravely Default is back.
Ugh I just don't want them to compensate story-wise by making the games much smaller scale/having low environment variety
But it's too early to worry about that. Only FF that felt small was XV IMO
Good one. The games were simpler in all elementy by themeselves (well, Story was convoluted since 7), but the elements worked for the time you played. You didn't have ultra freedome, but you didn't need to.
Again, with 8: Some of the places look huge (Lunatic Pandora, Esthar City). You could not go everywhere you wanted, but you gut the feeling: ok, this is a huge futuristic city. The music was midi, but the chosen sounds, the compositions, that where the right amount ofsimple and complex. The games had rough edges, but you moved from charming moment to charming moment so fast, that you ignore them.
Only gripe looking back: speed. Some parts would take forever without 3x in the newer ports, especially if you overlooked something and needed to run back. (that happend a lot with the prerendered backgrounds and the jaggy collision in some places)
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The thing is that FF used to do the "illusion" of large worlds well (via zones, world maps, etc...) and then reinforced that with strong stories and narratives.
XV just dropped you into a big empty few miles of open world that probably took a ton of resources to make and had you do everything at whatever pace you wanted.
Honestly, I don't think that level of openness is useful for the Final Fantasy series.
I know what you mean. FFI through IX feel like a coherent series. They did indeed change a lot between installments but I felt very comfortable jumping from one to the other. I played VII when it came out and went back and played VI and then moved to VIII. The combat, how the world was structured (world map, towns, dungeons), interface etc were all immediately familiar to me. Whenever this topic gets brought up I find people overrate how much changed between the SNES and PS1 games.
Nothing seems to tie together the modern entries aside from having much larger budgets than other JRPGs and having FF window dressing (chocobos etc). If someone loves X it doesn't have much bearing on how much they'll like XII. Same with XII to XIII or XIII to XV. If someone told me they love VI or VII for example I could easily recommend they give other SNES or PS1 installments a shot.
Nothing seems to tie together the modern entries aside from having much larger budgets than other JRPGs and having FF window dressing (chocobos etc). If someone loves X it doesn't have much bearing on how much they'll like XII. Same with XII to XIII or XIII to XV. If someone told me they love VI or VII for example I could easily recommend they give other SNES or PS1 installments a shot.
I feel like they should continue to experiment, they're the only company not afraid to do so. What they should have done is split the series into their own sub series. One retro/atb, online, and main series that continues to experiment.
I'm picturing something that's like FF13 but the battle menu is purely to switch classes (left/right switch character, up/down switch class) and each character has a meter and you can press that character's button to use the meter to interrupt & do special moves.
I'm sure everyone loved the heck out of FF8 and reminded them of FF6 and FF7
Come on...
Is it as good as 6 or 7? no, it is clearly rushed and is flawed.
Is the hate it gets the last view years overblown?
Definitly, it was way better received back then.
A bar filling up seldom means it's the same system. The core elements that makes the battle systems are so absurdly different it would be calling grape wine and grape juice to be the same thing. One of the PS1 FF ditched equipment almost entirely, one teaches skills through them, another one has a materia system. The queue system, battle speed, the flow of matches, jobs are all so different.
Disgaea is the same across entries. Valkyria Chronicles is the same across entries. Final Fantasy is not and it rang true since Final Fantasy Two.
All this "similar identity" and "golden age" spiel just serves to reinforce and legitimize your favourites akin to insert a square peg in a round hole.
I'm not saying FF8 is worse. But saying that people felt comfortable jumping from one to the other is claiming something that the truth doesn't agree on.
I like FF12 and FF14 as modern FF battle systems.
FF10-2 was the best of ATB in my view but FF13's probably the final evolution of That system...
FF10-2 was the best of ATB in my view but FF13's probably the final evolution of That system...