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The final boss in Sekiro is one of the best designed boss fights in gaming history

Toriko

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,676
Spoilers obviously...God damn this boss fight is good. Playing through the game again after beating it and this fight is probably one of the greatest boss fights of all time.

The boss fight expects you to absolutely perfectly apply what you have learnt up to that point in one long boss fight and therefore the boss fight goes from challenging to suddenly the easiest boss fight in From history when it clicks.

I have my issues with Sekiro from its mediocre level design (for a From Game) and terrible music but goddamn is this boss fight just *Chefs Kiss*.

Ishin you are worthy.

Hesitation is defeat indeed!
 
RadioJoNES

RadioJoNES

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,877
That shit was hard man. Hardest final boss I can recall fighting. I'm gonna post my trophy here because I earned it.

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Toriko

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,676
RadioJoNES said:
That shit was hard man. Hardest final boss I can recall fighting. I'm gonna post my trophy here because I earned it.

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It is weird. It is simultaneously the hardest and easiest final boss fight in from history. When it clicks it suddenly becomes okay.

Congrats on conquering that SOB!
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,396
Ibis Island
If you can beat the first form, you can beat the rest of the fight by poking him after he does his large circular move. It takes a little while but is pretty easy to nail down.

For me, Genchiro in the middle of the game is the best fight in the game. Since in that small area and the way his attacks are, there's no real way to cheese him. Even the other fight that happens there you can get enough room to dodge things.
 
Jeremy

Jeremy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,639
Jawmuncher said:
If you can beat the first form, you can beat the rest of the fight by poking him after he does his large circular move. It takes a little while but is pretty easy to nail down.

For me, Genchiro in the middle of the game is the best fight in the game. Since in that small area and the way his attacks are, there's no real way to cheese him. Even the other fight that happens there you can get enough room to dodge things.
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I agree... Genchiro was the true test. Everything after that was pretty academic, because you had the required skills.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,518
I hated it. Just takes too damn long, and the Genichiro phase is a stupid, pointless obstacle after the first time.
 
MonadL

MonadL

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,888
Jawmuncher said:
If you can beat the first form, you can beat the rest of the fight by poking him after he does his large circular move. It takes a little while but is pretty easy to nail down.

For me, Genchiro in the middle of the game is the best fight in the game. Since in that small area and the way his attacks are, there's no real way to cheese him. Even the other fight that happens there you can get enough room to dodge things.
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Yup Genchiro was the peak of the game for me. All of the bosses went downhill after that.
 
Jencks

Jencks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,451
Having to fight Genichiro knocks it down from that status unfortunately. The fight against the Sword Saint himself is fantastic though.
 

Deleted member 18966

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,043
Was Genichiro really that good? I just rushed him and killed him first try without even seeing him use his lightning attack, Owl was a better fight for me
 
Devil

Devil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,656
PlanetSmasher said:
I hated it. Just takes too damn long, and the Genichiro phase is a stupid, pointless obstacle after the first time.
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I feel like that's the point about the Genichiro phase though. You beat him again and again after losing to Isshin, you are still not allowed to go against Genichiro carelessly or he will absolutely kill you or steal health potions you'd need for what's next. It's a lesson to stay concentrated at all times.
 
Plax

Plax

Member
Nov 23, 2019
2,818
I loved it. It was super memorable and I think it really tested you on knowing all of the mechanics.
 
Zachary_Games

Zachary_Games

Member
Jul 31, 2020
2,956
MonadL said:
Yup Genchiro was the peak of the game for me. All of the bosses went downhill after that.
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Genchiro is peak Sekiro for me as well because of his placement in the game and utility of getting good.

Defeating him was when the lightbulb for the combat went on.

However, the best boss fights are Owl prime and Sword Saint. Both are challenging yet fair. It takes many new game plus runs to master those two.

Genchiro, OTOH, I beat in my sleep on NG+. It took me til NG+7 to beat Sword Saint without a death or revive.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,518
Devil said:
I feel like that's the point about the Genichiro phase though. You beat him again and again after losing to Isshin, you are still not allowed to go against Genichiro carelessly or he will absolutely kill you or steal health potions you'd need for what's next. It's a lesson to stay concentrated at all times.
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Right but that lesson gets taught to you early. It's not fun or engaging, it's just an annoying speed bump you have to power through every time you die.
 
Lulu

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
It's up there, I might like Owl 2 better though.
 
oldzac

oldzac

Member
Jan 22, 2020
186
Bloodborne is my favorite From game, but Isshin is the best final boss by far.

I like the Genichiro portion, which functions as a sort of hand warmer if you haven't played in a while. There are people who got stuck on Isshin for days at a time, and so Genichiro helps lock you in before the actual boss fight.
 
pleaseinsertdisctwo

pleaseinsertdisctwo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
Sekiro is one of my favorite games of all time, but no. SSI sucks. At the VERY least we shouldn't have to fight Genichiro with every attempt.

The level design doesn't suck even a little bit, what the hell? Does it suck because you don't have to do clunky ass platforming in a game absolutely not build to handle platforming to reach some secret items and areas like in Dark Souls games?

Sekiro has tons of hidden paths and ways to connect to other locations, and tons of optional mini-bosses and a few optional bosses. It also has swimming and it has tons of verticality. Quite frankly I'm offended that you said the level design sucks (edit: sorry you said the level design is "mediocre" which is just wrong, sorry)
 
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Lulu

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
You should be able to wash Genichiro asap. Idk, I didn't mind it.
 
MC_Leon6494

MC_Leon6494

Member
Sep 7, 2018
501
I think I tried the boss around 40-50 times and then decided it wasn't worth my time or energy. I don't regret it. Owl fight is phenomenal. Sekiro went a little too far in making the bosses sponges for my taste
 
TheChronic2060

TheChronic2060

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
925
Its beautiful.

I put together a video of the last minutes of the end boss of my 4 playthroughs of the game (3x Sword Saint and 1 x Old man Ishin).



Once in a lifetime experience.
 
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gitrektali

gitrektali

Member
Feb 22, 2018
3,187
Truly what a "final boss" is supposed to be, testing everything (almost) you learned throughout the game

Edit: Also Sekiro might not have the best music in a FROM game, but it has some killer tracks



 
pleaseinsertdisctwo

pleaseinsertdisctwo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
Seriously I want to know how Sekiro's level design is "mediocre" compared to other From games, when there's tons of secret paths and mini-bosses and bosses, swimming, reaching places with your grappling hook, etc.

Is it because some parts are "linear"? Seriously what is this take
 
Van Bur3n

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Ariashadow said:
killed him without parrying the lightning bolt because I never got the hang of it lol
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Use to have trouble as well, but once you pull it off, third phase becomes a joke.

Amazing boss, though. The Inner version of Isshin from the Gauntlet is amazing as well with how he combines unblockable attacks.
 
ghibli99

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,706
Can't even remember if this happens before/after Owl (Father), but damn, both fights are forever burned in my brain. Genichiro, Demon of Hatred, O'Rin of the Water, etc. Heck, I love everything about the game, except the dull grind for the plat!
 
Shan

Shan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,954
pleaseinsertdisctwo said:
Seriously I want to know how Sekiro's level design is "mediocre" compared to other From games, when there's tons of secret paths and mini-bosses and bosses, swimming, reaching places with your grappling hook, etc.

Is it because some parts are "linear"? Seriously what is this take
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In my case it's the pay off to a lot of these side paths, Oftentime you just get some trash ass items like ceramic shards, or mibu balloons, or those item that last like 3 seconds. While it also happened in Souls games I feel exploration paid off a lot more thanks to weapons, spells, armor sets, which sekiro lacks. Outside of a few side bosses the only time I really enjoyed Sekiro's exploration when when it may have led to a new prosthetic. (Like the hidden pagoda in an early zone)
 
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Toriko

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,676
pleaseinsertdisctwo said:
Seriously I want to know how Sekiro's level design is "mediocre" compared to other From games, when there's tons of secret paths and mini-bosses and bosses, swimming, reaching places with your grappling hook, etc.

Is it because some parts are "linear"? Seriously what is this take
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First of all most people don't like Souls level design for the platforming wtf lol. Souls level design is awesome because it marries encounter design and exploration in a masterful way that makes finding shortcuts that loop back into itself satisfying. Also adding decent items to discover helps too.

Sekiro meanwhile is aggressively linear, the path to the boss aggressively boring and extremely short in a lot of cases and reuses bosses, areas and enemies far too much for my liking. Anyways that is not even the point of this thread. It was to discuss the final boss which is fantastic
 
Lulu

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
Wait, the first Guardian ape fight is up there for me too.

I love Sekiro bosses but Demon of hatred might be my last favorite from boss. Just out of place, left over Bloodborne ass boss.
 
pleaseinsertdisctwo

pleaseinsertdisctwo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
Toriko said:
First of all most people don't like Souls level design for the platforming wtf lol. Souls level design is awesome because it marries encounter design and exploration in a masterful way that makes finding shortcuts that loop back into itself satisfying. Also adding decent items to discover helps too.

Sekiro meanwhile is aggressively linear, the path to the boss aggressively boring and extremely short in a lot of cases and reuses bosses, areas and enemies far too much for my liking. Anyways that is not even the point of this thread. It was to discuss the final boss which is fantastic
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I know that's not why people like DS exploration, I was just being petty. I don't find DS exploration to be very fun simply because I don't like the feel of the character (weighing like 10,000 tons even if I have light armor on) and I absolutely loathe the platforming.

I don't know how you can say with a straight face that Sekiro is linear. I mean with every section of every location there's always some other path, and throughout the entire game there's always multiple places you could go to, ESPECIALLY once you reach Ashina Castle.
 
Snake__

Snake__

Member
Jan 8, 2020
2,450
I strongly disagree
Would have been infinitely better if the first phase was a separate fight
It is so annoying having to deal with that first phase on every attempt
 
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Toriko

Toriko

Member
Dec 29, 2017
7,676
pleaseinsertdisctwo said:
I know that's not why people like DS exploration, I was just being petty. I don't find DS exploration to be very fun simply because I don't like the feel of the character (weighing like 10,000 tons even if I have light armor on) and I absolutely loathe the platforming.

I don't know how you can say with a straight face that Sekiro is linear. I mean with every section of every location there's always some other path, and throughout the entire game there's always multiple places you could go to, ESPECIALLY once you reach Ashina Castle.
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When I say linear I don't mean choice to go to different levels but I mean the actual level themselves. Like sure I can go to A,B or C. But A B and C by themselves are extremely linear with no sense of discovery to them. Most of these levels are pretty much a straight path from point A to B in a way Souls games aren't imo.

Compare a stage like Hirata Estate to something like a Central Yharnam and there is no contest imo..
 
The Smoking Man

The Smoking Man

Member
Nov 29, 2018
1,084
You're gonna get a lot of flak, OP, but I agree. He was a great 'final exam' boss and the only real complaints I had were the Genichiro phase on every attempt and that it didn't really pressure you to experiment with shinobi arms.

Man though, I was pumped when I finally downed him.
 
cvbas

cvbas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,165
Brazil
No boss has ever made me feels better after beating them than Sword Saint. Amazing fight, From's best.
 
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