God damn, what a horrible story. Death penalty cannot be the answer, specially in these cases. This could have been avoided years ago.
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The Federal Government will execute Lisa Montgomery today. Here is her tragic story. UPDATE: Federal government executed her.
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I'm not glad she's dead, I'm opposed to the death penalty. I'm equally opposed to Bobbie Jo Stanford's life being ignored for her murders plight. I'm an abuse survivor myself and I'm not insympathetic but it's fucked up that Bobbie Jo Stanford has somehow, like so many other victims Ben supplanted in the public eye by her murderer.
Ironically if the death penalty was gone, murders could be kept out of the spotlight with the end of highly publicized executions.
Knowing America, a couple of them probably ended up on court seats or became cops.
Absolutely sad display by our country. I never want to fucking hear about pro-life ever again if this is what a conservative lopsided Supreme Court decides. This woman did not deserve the life she had.
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Her life wasn't ignored
Montgomery was not a free woman, and this thread is specifically here is about Montgomery's life and now her death.
You're literally forgiving her murderer and absolving her of any guilt by shifting the blame to outside forces, making excuses for her and justifying what she did by claiming she had no choice or control over her own actions. You would turn the murderer into the victim, as if murder is somehow excusable as long as the state doesn't do it.
I fail to see how you're not making a bigger deal out of Lisa Montgomery being wrongly executed than you are of Bobbie Jo Stinnett being murdered. Just because Lisa Montgomery did not deserve to be executed doesn't change the fact that she did something truly unforgivable that she could never atone for and that alone is grounds to no longer feel sorry for her.
If you're truly determined to excuse what she did because she was abused, then would it not be hypocritical for you to refuse to extend that same compassion to her abusers? Kind of a slippery slope that, though. Before you know it you'll be arguing that the Manson family were the victims, not Sharon Tate and the people at her party.
I'm not sure a life spent in confinement is much better than a medicated death, and I'm not sure there's much wiggle room for rehabilitation when someone is capable of doing what she's done. It's a sad story, I'm not completely opposed to the death penalty like some are but this does seem wrong.
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That description of her just being so confused through the whole process is just fucking sad. What an injustice.
Sad shit all-around. Her crime were indeed heinous but instead of helping her through her obvious trauma, which she clearly needed, let's just kill her. Fucking abysmal.
Does anyone feel any better now? Sense of relief or satisfaction that there are two dead people now?
Get rid of this state-sponsored barbarism
Does anyone feel any better now? Sense of relief or satisfaction that there are two dead people now?
Get rid of this state-sponsored barbarism
There's a kneejerk reaction to the type of violence she inflicted that makes people - understandably - want her to be punished. That said, it does appear her mental capacity was greatly diminished and that changes things profoundly.
Also, rushing an execution through is fucking gross.
Regardless, what a sad end to a tragic life. I wish I could reach back in time and yank that beautiful little girl out of that living nightmare before it obliterated her.
Also, rushing an execution through is fucking gross.
Regardless, what a sad end to a tragic life. I wish I could reach back in time and yank that beautiful little girl out of that living nightmare before it obliterated her.
Incredibly sad. I will never understand the contradiction between pro-life conservatives who are also pro-death penalty, other than the simple truth that they don't really care about life.
They've been slaughtering people as fast as they can before the Trump admin is over, so fucking sad.
Dems need to put an end to executions in this country.
Dems need to put an end to executions in this country.
Nope
And that's all you deserve.
Though credit for the creativity of insinuating I'm pro Charles Manson, that's a first.
Though actually that's not a bad comparison... Tex Watson not only didn't get executed but his life sentence includes parole hearings, and now he'll never he paroled because you know murder cult membership, but he technically has a means to one day leave prsion... and he's Manson Cult member
So granted it is different states, but in America, a member of the Manson family who directly participated in the murder of Tate and her household, was treated better than Lisa Montgomery.
So actually thanks for strengthening my argument.
I never said she should be a free woman or any of that, and frankly I don't know what you going off about be forgiven even means here.
Merely that in this thread which is about her execution and thus the abuse she suffered and the mental illnesses that very likely impacted her ability to know right from wrong, and the derelict of counsel she received throughout the legal process, that it is perfectly ok to prioritize that. Focusing on that in this discussion is not insulting or disrespecting Bobbie Jo Stinnett. Reality is this isn't black and white, this is a deeply nuanced case. Folks like you, acting like talking about Lisa is putting her ahead of Bobbie Jo Stinnett, or wanting to say Lisa is a murder and then plug your ears after and accuse anyone who wants to keep talking of not caring or whatever it is you and the other poster believe, is childish.
Maybe she belonged in jail for life, maybe she belonged in a mental health hospital, and maybe that too would have been for life, we don't know, because she never got care, she never got an adequate defense and now thanks to the conservatives on thr Supreme Court she's dead.
Now maybe for you none of that matters, but that it matters to me doesn't make me the morally insufficient one
So there, nope is all you deserved but you got it all anyway.
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Wow
I didn't know anything about her, read the thread then read what her actual crime was
And people here want her dead for that? Absolute scum bags
It's clear from the get go she has mental problems
I didn't know anything about her, read the thread then read what her actual crime was
And people here want her dead for that? Absolute scum bags
It's clear from the get go she has mental problems
Nothing, absolutely nothing justified giving her the death penalty, it wasn't just murdering her in revenge or letting her go free.
Kindly fuck off with this slippery slope nonsense. There is a vast, vast difference between even something like having vague sympathy for people in a cycle of abuse, and discussing someone in her extremely specific situation of living in a traumatic hell from day 0. If you truly cannot see any difference between talking about how what she went through affected her and defending the fucking Manson family, there's nothing reasonable you can contribute to this conversation. That is not only a gross insult, but also an indication of how little you've thought about any of this.
The murder she committed is horrifying and tragic. But this thread is about her execution and how cruel it is. How exactly are you supposed to not "make a bigger deal" out of her execution in the thread about her execution?
I never said it was. I absolutely disagree with the death penalty and, even more than that, rushing through an execution immediately before the government assumes new leadership and makes capital punishment illegal is incredibly fucked up.
Even so, the framing some are using in this thread and the lengths those people will go to defend this woman and excuse her actions is worrying to say the least.
She lied to, manipulated and murdered an innocent, pregnant, woman. You can't get any more premeditated than what Lisa Montgomery did and I don't see how you can say she wasn't of sound mind when she did it, either, when she falsified her identity, pretended to be pregnant and was able to gain entry into the home of her victim with the sole intention of killing her and stealing her unborn child.
How can anyone side with her over her victim like this? 'cause that's exactly what people in this thread are doing when they go out of their way to justify and excuse what she did.
There aren't enough people that were punished for this, Montgomery was failed by practically everyone involved that could've done something to help her. She shouldn't have been executed, but spend her time in an institution (or what have you).
The people that should've been locked up and or killed were those that abused, and raped her. These are the type of people that should be locked up.
The people that should've been locked up and or killed were those that abused, and raped her. These are the type of people that should be locked up.
You do realize, of course, that not killing her would not have been the same as forgiving her? What did you think was going to happen if the death penalty had been overturned, that they would just open the door and let her walk free?
And I'm for the death penalty in certain cases. This wasn't one of them.
This is a horrible straw man that doesn't even deserve a response. Do better.
It actually opened a fascinating door though
I neglected to mention Patricia Krenwinkel also gets parole hearings, now like Tex she won't get out, but that rehabilitation door isn't 100% closed, and that's for the two surviving members of the Manson family who directly murdered multiple people.
I'm glad she brought them up in such a weak gotcha because looking at them, it actually strengthens not weakens the stance of those who do not believe this was justice served properly
Your standard for being of "sound mind" is entirely arbitrary, to a confusing degree. You can do a lot of things even if your reasoning for them is completely disconnected from reality. Being able to do those things does not say much about her mental state at the time.
I was trying to make more of a point here,, but... it's literally that simple, so I really don't even know what else I can say that wouldn't be repeating that. Your argument would only make sense if people were saying she was framed or something.
How is literally anyone "siding with her over her victim"? What does that even mean? Nobody's out here saying "I want her to be alive but I specifically want her victim to not be alive". You're imagining some weird binary state that doesn't exist. Which, honestly, is the problem with the first part of your post too.
What an utterly tragic set of events. The US's barbaric support of the death penalty being the final twist of the knife.
There are, as far as I can tell, three types of people in this thread:
- Some are glad she's dead because they believe murderers are the scum of the earth and less than human or whatever;
- Some think executing her was wrong but she was still a murderer and thus should have spent the rest of her life in prison or a hospital;
- Some think executing her was wrong but she was the victim and thus cannot be held accountable nor punished for what she did.
The issue is, though, that folks in that third group don't agree with that. There are many posts from them clearly stating they sympathise with Montgomery because of her past and how society has failed her. In fact they don't even think about Stinnet, let alone bring her up, unless you make them. It makes you feel as though her murder no longer matters, which cannot be allowed to happen. Bobbie Jo Stinnet was the victim here, not Lisa Montgomery, and it would be nice for that to be acknowleged.
The third camp doesn't exist. I don't know if you're just trolling or completely misreading posts. But nobody has said she did not do the things she did. Nobody is saying she should have just been let out of prison with 0 effort to help and rehabilitate her. At most people would be in group 2 with the caveat that there is the potential that she need not be in prison/a hospital for the entirety of her life, depending on how treatment/rehabilitation goes.
But there is no distinct group 3 here. You are willingly taking things away from posts that nobody was trying to say due to your own assumptions.
And again, this is a thread about her execution. It is not surprising that people would mainly talk... about... her execution... Frankly, you're being pretty overly dramatic and insulting over some people making brief posts reacting to the actual topic of the thread.
Your rhetoric and distortions far puts you closer to being #1 and not #2 on your list, given that #3 doesn't actually exist in an any real way yet you've lumped me and half this thread in it, despite us all having a far more nuanced perspective closer to #2 than #3.
But what do I know I supposedly support the Manson family
Oh you mean the pro-life loving Christians are only pro-life in a very extremely hyper narrow sense of the phrase?
Like every fucking church in the southeast is open and neither masks nor social distancing are required and yet they all talk for hours about how they're pro life and Joe Biden is going to kill everyone and all kinds of meaningless shit that their congregation eats up while giving everyone there COVID. It's infuriating.
User threadbanned: misrepresenting and antagonizing other members over a series of posts
Are you implying I said her execution was justice served, despite saying several times that it was the wrong thing to do? That's the only context in which calling what I said a "gotcha moment"...
...wait...
Yep, that explains a lot. Thanks for falsely accusing me of supporting the death penalty despite several obvious statements to the contrary. I didn't even say you support the Manson family, either, but I guess it's easier to misrepresent and vilify people who refuse to sympathise with murderers than to show any compassion for their victims.
Fuck. I quoted these before seeing last night's Supreme Court rush job to kill demonstrably medically mental ill victim of lifelong abuse. What a disgusting system.
I'm still curious about these criminals. Searching the police cousin's and mother's names often just points to old interviews, assuming prior to the learning of their criminal behavior. Did they get locked up?
I'm still curious about these criminals. Searching the police cousin's and mother's names often just points to old interviews, assuming prior to the learning of their criminal behavior. Did they get locked up?
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man, your avatar is a fantastic representation of you, just stumbling around here with your eyes closed not actually paying any attention to what anyone is saying. what a fucking goon.
I mean can you complain about being misrepresented when you're misrepresenting half of the thread by saying there are people arguing she has no accountability and shouldn't face any punishment at all when literally nobody in this thread has said anything of the sort? Literally nobody has refused to show compassion for the victims either. Sympathizing with the conditions that led a person to murder and having compassions for the victim aren't mutually exclusive. In fact I'd argue that being able to sympathize with the conditions that led to such crimes can be an expression of compassion for the victims, because in recognizing that societal and environmental factors influence people's choices and decisions we can gain an awareness of steps that can be taken to prevent future crimes and reduce victims long run. The death penalty (and hell, nonnegotiable life sentences with no chance of parole) don't actually do jack shit in preventing crimes because people don't do these things with the intent of being caught in the first place. Improving societal conditions and destroying the cycles of abuse absolutely do prevent crime on the other hand. But removing bad actors after it's too late is easy and actual rehabilitation and reform is hard so people like the quick, feel good solution that doesn't work over the hard, long term one that does