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The Falcon and the Winter Soldier | Starring Anthony Mackie as Captain America | All episodes on Disney+
- Thread starter Deleted member 1248
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- OT
Or that he was simply lying to his therapist as she said. Not everything is that complex.
Im not sure how long Bucky thinks he can get away with hiding his cyborg arm. Unless he was only intending to do one date just to see if he could open up to somebody.
No you don't understand there's actually a whole lot of subtleties into bank loan lending and proof of revenue that makes the rejection totally logical and not at all race-based.
/s
My faith in people's ability to read subtext is legit in the pits right now so if this sort of heavy-handed approach is what's needed for the idiots in the back to get it then fuck it, might as well over-speak than under.
I hope this tackles more the stuff outside superheroes and the problems both have. The bank scene was hard to watch
I am just happy we get some Marvel stuff every week tbh.. What a time
I am just happy we get some Marvel stuff every week tbh.. What a time
I thought that while watching it. Reminded me of the therapy scenes from the Sopranos. Where you know what's going on with the main character internally but there's a separate performance being made for the therapist who is already seeing through it. It was really well done.
The bank scene was really on the nose as is and people still could not see it? Dunno it seems pretty clear
It's going to be interesting how they'll show new Captain America as being entirely the wrong man for the job. It would be easy to make him an asshole and just let that be it, but honestly it wouldn't be all that interesting. Government screws over black man to put white asshole in charge is the obvious story there. But what if new Cap instead tries to be a good Cap, but simply cannot live up to the mantle?
Steve Rogers wasn't an ideal soldier to say the least, but everything that defined him as Captain America, he had before the serum. What if the new guy is an ideal soldier, picked because of that... and it's simply a bad fit for the job? That would be an interesting story, too.
And yes, the government are right assholes by asking Sam for the shield, suggesting that it would be put in a museum, and then immediately giving it to some guy in a Captain America outfit. They are likely in the clear legally, both the persona of "Captain America" and his vibranium shield technically belong to the military... But there's a difference between being within your rights to do something and that thing being the right thing to do.
Steve Rogers wasn't an ideal soldier to say the least, but everything that defined him as Captain America, he had before the serum. What if the new guy is an ideal soldier, picked because of that... and it's simply a bad fit for the job? That would be an interesting story, too.
And yes, the government are right assholes by asking Sam for the shield, suggesting that it would be put in a museum, and then immediately giving it to some guy in a Captain America outfit. They are likely in the clear legally, both the persona of "Captain America" and his vibranium shield technically belong to the military... But there's a difference between being within your rights to do something and that thing being the right thing to do.
If you think about it a certain way, they were playing a mental game of Battleship. And she sunk Buckys battleship with her direct hit questions.
This is the direction I hope they go in. I rewatched First Avenger the other night, and imagine if they guy Peggy punches during training had been picked for the super soldier project? That's kind of what I hope they explore here. Maybe the new Cap isn't a bad guy per se, but instead of Steve's clear cut concept of right and wrong ("I don't like bullies"), new Cap is more of a "just following orders" type who does whatever the government tells him to do. Steve Rogers was never that guy. That's what keeps him from being a blind patriot...his hard lines of right and wrong mean that he will absolutely call out and go against the US if they're wrong.
It all goes back to what Erskine told Steve in FA. Being a good soldier isn't what defines Steve (and Cap), it's that he's a good man. Sam has to realize this too, and he doesn't have an Erskine to tell him that. It will be a much more interesting and nuanced story if the new Cap isn't a straight up villain, but doesn't have that spark that Steve had, and that Steve saw in Sam.
How old are you and why do you wear gloves. Yeah real heavy hitters.
I really enjoyed that episode aside from the intro where my eyes glossed over. I think I just don't enjoy straight action anymore. Fury Road did nothing for me either. I can't tell you anything that happened in that movie that wasn't in the trailers.
I mean she was talking about the death of someone's son, and depression....great topics for first date. Maybe I shouldn't have said questions and should have said topics instead.
Even if Yori was their common link the most any person would ask is "How do you know that person" for a surface level conversation rather than go deep into their tragedy and everything associated with it.
Acknowledging a good deed isn't really a heavy topic. That's how they met and ended up on the date so it would stand to reason it would be an easy topic of conversation.
The fact he told her the truth and she just laughed actually did affect me more than I thought. Steve really was the only other person who knew what that felt like, but he was Captain America - everyone knew who he was and how great he was. If anyone knew who Bucky was they'd just run away in fear, even though he truly never was the Winter Soldier.
I'm honestly surprised Bucky still breathing. What he's going through would drive a lot of people to suicide. Imagine waking up seventy years from now, everyone you've ever known or loved is dead, and you're a wanted man for a string of violent murders you had no control over but you vividly remember anyway. How do you cope with that?
Very true. I definitely hope to see his thoughts on how abruptly Steve dipped after the fighting was over. You definitely got the somber tone at the end of Endgame when he's telling Steve bye before he returns the stones & goes off to his alternate timeline
Not that I don't mind it one bit, the opening sequence here is fantastic but yes, so far the Marvel TV shows have succeeded in making the action the most uninteresting part.
They're absolutely killing it with this change in medium, TV is 100% the way to adapt comic book stories that can do more than just action & plot based setpieces.
They're absolutely killing it with this change in medium, TV is 100% the way to adapt comic book stories that can do more than just action & plot based setpieces.
He did say the only place he had felt at peace since "waking up" in 2014 was Wakanda. I wonder if they'd let him back there. Becoming the White Wolf would be a great way to move on from the Winter Soldier business and it would be the fresh start he needs.
Mephisto only gets involved in relationship drama to annul marriages.
Yeah that's gotta be rough to deal with and suicide might be a topic soon. I'm not sure she knows he was telling the truth or who he really is though which is why she laughed when he said how old he was.
I'd love for his arc to end here with him moving to Wakanda full time
I totally thought there was a divide with Wandavision, or rather divides where some grew more than others, that was also something that given the length of the show is just not the same type of reaction I see with movies where either people like something or not like something (with most people falling on the side of liking something) while this format seems like it creates factions in the fandom.
With Wandavision the first divide was over the premise, where some were put off by the sitcom being played out in earnest and not a parody while others believed it was more interesting being a sitcom with occasional weird stuff happening and that the MCU reality/action component is what ruined the show. I'm sure some fell off while others eventually accepted what the show was going for but it was a conversation that I saw going on for at least the first few weeks with a significant divide due to expectations.
I'd say the next significant divide was over expectations as well, but I'd say that it was more loosely over how closely people thought it would follow possibly Wanda's most well-known story, House of M. There are lot of aspects to that which does make it more broadly defined, but I'd say it included expectations that crossed over with whether mutants would be involved, whether Magneto would be involved, if her reality warping powers would grow big enough to effect all reality to set up some multiversal shenanigans due her involvement in Doctor Strange 2, and whether Wanda was being set up as the villain in the story and therefore also a villain in Doctor Strange 2. The introduction of Evan Peters only ramped up expectations for multiversal X-Men/mutants/Magneto and completely took the discussion for some people for what the show was about in a different direction. You could see it in the sort of "Mephisto vs mutants" speculation that while House of M also deals with a Wanda story about her twins, the set up of the twins was from previous stories that involved their souls coming from parts of Mephisto's soul, so one basis for speculation was based off looking at Wanda's comic history more holistically, while the other hyper-focused on House of M (and other meta aspects outside the show) since it's not only the most well-known Scarlet Witch story, but it's something that someone only has to know the broad strokes (Wanda having a mental break and changing all of reality and eventually wiping out most of the entire mutant population) to know why it was an important story for the character and that it had massive implications.
I think that there were certainly sub divisions of that and meta divisions (ie. pro-Fox X-Men vs anti-Fox X-Men) and people coming down on different sides of how the story was executed, but I found that while trying to discuss the show, it seemed clear to me that people were all over the place in their interpretation of what we were being shown on screen, and unlike a lot of other media discussions, it's not all due to different interpretations of the subtext or people not paying close attention/not catching everything, it seemed to be because people are straight up coming into it with wildly different expectations and perspectives and Marvel trying to still be both broadly mainstream (in the way that most of their movies are made to appeal to wide audiences) still will cast a wide net to bring in all these different people, but with them trying to be a little more nuanced and subtle in their storytelling to deal with themes like mental illness and racism in stories that are more longform and diving into character a little bit more, some people are straight up getting lost.
It's sort of like how some people mention that the systemic racism in FatWS so far has been pretty blatant in terms of what they are going for if you know the context clues, but obviously the writers want it to feel a bit more authentic than the banker straight up saying that he can't give Sam and his sister a loan because they are black, but at the same time, people are used to the themes in the movies being spelled out more plainly and the subtext being something that can mostly be ignored or only something that you notice subconsciously. That's not to say that the movies don't have great themes that are mostly dealt with in subtext (which I think is annoyingly fascinating to see the themes that get completely overlooked by the majority of the audience and even critics writing all the films off as disposable trash), but it seems clear to me that even after all these years, many people just don't engage in Marvel projects on that level. Maybe Marvel themselves deserve some of the blame since in a way they've trained audiences to not have to engage with the subtext to enjoy the movie for what it is saying, but regardless, I do feel that is where we are now with audiences struggling with these long-form shows doing things just a little bit different and dealing with some of its themes in a slightly more nuanced way. I kind of get it though when these shows (or movies) can be pretty breezy in the way you can just go along for the ride but once it's asking a bit more for you to engage with what it is trying to convey, suddenly people start getting hung up on the execution, the practical considerations, or just other potential questions that they feel may have inadvertently been raised.
I am optimistic that not only will Marvel continue this approach with their upcoming Disney+ shows, which favor character development and long-form storytelling, but that audiences will start consuming this entertainment in a different way. I didn't feel like there were the same problems with the Netflix Marvel shows dealing with some deeper thematic material or that people rubbed up against the writing with shows like Agents of SHIELD, but I'm not sure if it was due to different audiences or the Disney+ shows having bigger audiences (and therefore more varied reactions) or what.
That's pretty much why USAgent failed as Cap in the comics, so it wouldn't be surprising if they did that for the show.
If you're gonna try using language from other cultures you should at least try to make it feel accurate especially when you have people in your audience that actually speak it. This isn't a Sam issue, but I'm assuming it's a director issue...just throwing whatever sounded Arabic in the script.
I'm guessing it's similar to Wanda speaking Sokovian? Which isn't exactly Ukrainian but I think it uses it as a base.
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"Sam and Bucky will return in Captain America and the White Wolf".
I thought he was fairly balanced in the Sam Wilson Cap book and a more compelling character than people generally paint him as. He's not just alt-right/nazi Cap, he's just got a different set of morals than Steve, Bucky or Sam.
When they called US Agent in in the book, he didn't want the shield he just thought Sam shouldn't have it. He wanted it returned to Steve IIRC. They're introducing him as the new Captain America like he was originally introduced in the comics but there's much more mileage in the character than being a "bad" Cap.
I'm still holding out hope that after the Spider-Man trilogy is done, we'll get a Spider-Man Disney+ series as his main series. I had always hoped that we'd maybe get a TV series alongside the movies, especially since they wanted to follow his high school years and Tom Holland won't stay young forever (even if he'll probably look pretty young for a while), but now that we obviously didn't get that and although the logistics of their agreement with Sony might mean that we never will, I do think that despite the awesome Far From Home final battle that probably only can be done on that scale in the movies, Spider-Man could just be done so much more justice as a TV show. Homecoming totally could have been executed on the scale of a show with a few tweaks and probably would have been even better for it.
I do have hope that while we missed that for Peter, we'll get some of that with Ms. Marvel's series and the X-Men would be phenomenal to explore in multiple Disney+ series, maybe alongside some movies to give some stories the proper scale. While I'm looking forward to the Black Widow movie, I do get the worry that exploring her past could have been better over the course of 6 hours than in 2, especially since this might be the last time we see the character.
he needs to at least apologize for ghosting on her like that. She seems pretty chill/laid back.
He is a soldier at the end of the day. It's like Black Panther said in IW the white wolf has rested long enough. I think he will find his balance by having a personal life, but bucky was shaped by WWII, he won't be able to stand on the sidelines anymore than cap did.
Is it weird his date was one of my favorite parts?
The idea of these men out of time is fascinating to me, some of my favorite parts of Winter Soldier was Steve trying to adjust to life. It's so interesting to see Bucky do the same, with all his other baggage too.
The Blip is such a fascinating thing to happen to an established universe so I'm really happy that that's something that isn't being ignored. I'm sure eventually it won't be talked about as much but I hope it's still present in some ways. You can never go back to being 100% normal after something like that, at least not in the lifetime of the people that lived through it.
the blip is basically their way of integrating COVID-type plot elements
It has new meaning too, going through Covid is very much our own blip, just not as traumatic. But I certainly can feel the weight of the blip when I think about people we've all lost, times missed to do things, and just the feeling that even when it's over none of our lives will really be the same.
My roommate from Lebanon told me he couldn't understand a single word either even after replaying it and looking at the captions.
He said he could understand the actor playing the Tunisian man more. I guess Tunisian Arabic is pretty different than the standard Arabic that my roommate learned in school so he only understand the key words like "wife".
Like, the idea is that we instantly hate him so it's working. However, it's working because people don't like his face, so I feel kinda bad for the actor. lol