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The extraordinary Sega game that played the player
- Thread starter Mama Robotnik
- Start date
Always wanted to play Landstalker and Dark Savior. Does it work well on RetroArch using the Saturn core?
Wow! The game sounds amazing. Thanks for this thread and the write-up, OP.
Don't know how I never even gave this game a chance on my Saturn. Will go to a retro game store here in the city this weekend and see if I can find a copy of it.
So how do I see the different scenarios and possibilities for this game? Does it reset every time I finish one, and force me to play a new, different one or do I have to do wildly specific and different things within the game to trigger them, like let certain characters die or whatever?
Don't know how I never even gave this game a chance on my Saturn. Will go to a retro game store here in the city this weekend and see if I can find a copy of it.
So how do I see the different scenarios and possibilities for this game? Does it reset every time I finish one, and force me to play a new, different one or do I have to do wildly specific and different things within the game to trigger them, like let certain characters die or whatever?
Holy shit, I need a modern port or remake of this, this would be like my favorite game ever made.
Can someone comment on how long a single play through takes? The concept sounds really amazing, but I'm notorious for not finishing games that only require one playthrough.
If I recall right, around 5-6 hours for a first playthrough when you are learning the ropes. Faster, afterwards.
Excellent thread.
Games like this make me wish Sega would make a Saturn classic. So many hidden gems.
Games like this make me wish Sega would make a Saturn classic. So many hidden gems.
Great thread. :) I have owned the game for a long time but never played far before losing interest. It didn't grip me as much as Landstalker. This thread makes me want to try it again, though.
Thanks OP, just bought the game off Ebay because of this thread. It seems most copies are around $115 so the one I just grabbed for $74 shipping included seems like a pretty good deal.
This is like the game David Cage wants to make but never will. Or the natural result of the Sudaverse.
Just make a Saturn Classic already, Sega!
Just make a Saturn Classic already, Sega!
1.) It's a Saturn game
2.) It doesn't play very well
3.) The potential narrative depth explored by the OP is never really developed in game.
FUCK YEAH WE TALKIN' DARK SAVIOR UP IN HERE
One of the Saturn games that I bought used from a Blockbuster way back in the day, like 1998 maybe, and it turned out to be a total surprise to me.
OP does not oversell how fantastic this game is and how well it weaves together storylines in purpose of its underlying twist.
One of the Saturn games that I bought used from a Blockbuster way back in the day, like 1998 maybe, and it turned out to be a total surprise to me.
OP does not oversell how fantastic this game is and how well it weaves together storylines in purpose of its underlying twist.
OP
OP
Thanks everyone for the really nice comments and feedback, very glad you enjoyed this look at one of my most revered games.
I can see a lot of people want to seek it out, and while I definitely encourage this, maybe have a look at a few YouTube videos first before spending a lot. I adore the gameplay, the battle system and the controls, but as you can see from the comments, these can be divisive for some.
There is also a major difficulty spike towards the end of two of the Parallels - the "Silver Castle" and the entire Carbon Garian onslaught. Gamers with limited time might want to consider snapshots in these areas if that suits them best.
Yes, I'd heard that there was even more content in the radio dramas – I think someone has begun to work on some translations somewhere, which will be interesting to read once completed.
It really is a testament to how little exposure the Sega Saturn library has received when learned gamers have never often never heard of such a monumental game. The fault definitely lies with Sega there.
I always felt that the game looked amazing, using the 3D capability and 2D strength of the system to produce something really special, that played (for the most part) fluidly. Really interesting to hear about some of the staffing talent and technical work that went into it.
I think that's a very fair point. I agree that some of the finer details have to be abstracted, but especially given the dialogue of certain characters in the "Marathon of Death" timeline, I don't see any other interpretation.
Bilan – the nemesis of Garian – only speaks twice in the game, during the supernatural events of Parallel V. In each instance he is screaming about being trapped, about his suffering, and his desperation to "live again". I believe these are the only true moments of Garian's realised consciousness that we hear in the entire game, in that bubble between two scenarios.
I think you raise a fair perspective about the gameplay. I think it holds up really well, but the game is eclectic enough that it's something people can reasonably disagree on.
This is the decider for major timeline splits. For smaller splits, these are still little-understood. Some are based on character decisions as you might expect, but some seem to happen based on nothing at all – I think the game might possibly have a range of measures (speed of player, paths chosen around the rooms, secrets found) to calculate the smaller variations, but I don't think anyone has ever gotten to the bottom of them.
I can see a lot of people want to seek it out, and while I definitely encourage this, maybe have a look at a few YouTube videos first before spending a lot. I adore the gameplay, the battle system and the controls, but as you can see from the comments, these can be divisive for some.
There is also a major difficulty spike towards the end of two of the Parallels - the "Silver Castle" and the entire Carbon Garian onslaught. Gamers with limited time might want to consider snapshots in these areas if that suits them best.
Yes, I'd heard that there was even more content in the radio dramas – I think someone has begun to work on some translations somewhere, which will be interesting to read once completed.
If you were to attempt each of the major timelines (ignoring splinters), you'd probably be looking at 15-25 hours to complete, varying based on exploration (Bilan and Drizit parallels) or deaths (Carban Garian and Marathon of Death parallels).
It really is a testament to how little exposure the Sega Saturn library has received when learned gamers have never often never heard of such a monumental game. The fault definitely lies with Sega there.
Unfortunately not. The game suffers the same fate as Panzer Dragoon Saga, Saturn Bomberman, Death Tank 7-player, Soleil/Crusader of Centy, Sonic 3D Saturn, Burning Rangers, Legend of Thor, Shining Force 3, Keio Flying Squadron 2 and countless more classics that were only ever released once by Sega. Such a shame.
I always felt that the game looked amazing, using the 3D capability and 2D strength of the system to produce something really special, that played (for the most part) fluidly. Really interesting to hear about some of the staffing talent and technical work that went into it.
High praise!
I think that's a very fair point. I agree that some of the finer details have to be abstracted, but especially given the dialogue of certain characters in the "Marathon of Death" timeline, I don't see any other interpretation.
Bilan – the nemesis of Garian – only speaks twice in the game, during the supernatural events of Parallel V. In each instance he is screaming about being trapped, about his suffering, and his desperation to "live again". I believe these are the only true moments of Garian's realised consciousness that we hear in the entire game, in that bubble between two scenarios.
I think you raise a fair perspective about the gameplay. I think it holds up really well, but the game is eclectic enough that it's something people can reasonably disagree on.
Yeah, I completely get that. I was blown away by this game, and when I went back to look at the reviews, it was like they were talking about something completely different. Definitely wasn't recognised for what it was.
There is a moment a few minutes after the start of the game where the timelines begin to tear apart, though its only indicated by a gentle colour change to a small part of the GUI.
This is how I'd advise to play it: Jump in and give the game a playthrough – you'll almost always end up in the "Bilan" timeline group, possibly the "Drizit" timeline group at a stretch. When you get to the Captain's Cabin, you will notice the colour of a GUI element at the bottom-right of the screen is red.
When the world resets at the end of your scenario, study what makes this GUI element change, and try to reach the Captain's Cabin with a different colour.
This is how I'd advise to play it: Jump in and give the game a playthrough – you'll almost always end up in the "Bilan" timeline group, possibly the "Drizit" timeline group at a stretch. When you get to the Captain's Cabin, you will notice the colour of a GUI element at the bottom-right of the screen is red.
When the world resets at the end of your scenario, study what makes this GUI element change, and try to reach the Captain's Cabin with a different colour.
This is the decider for major timeline splits. For smaller splits, these are still little-understood. Some are based on character decisions as you might expect, but some seem to happen based on nothing at all – I think the game might possibly have a range of measures (speed of player, paths chosen around the rooms, secrets found) to calculate the smaller variations, but I don't think anyone has ever gotten to the bottom of them.
Never heard of that, thanks for making me aware!
Garian's punishment never ends. You can complete as many permutations as you can: save the island, destroy the island, sacrifice your love, abandon your love, overthrow the administration, battle the resistance, kill the final boss, redeem the final boss.
In the end, he will always, always wake up in his cabin on the Prisoner Transport, distressed that his memories are fragmenting away, shaking off his nightmare, and then ready to start his adventure as all plucky JRPG heroes are.
Garian is destined to suffer for all time as a child murderer, and even if we could save him, should we?
In the end, he will always, always wake up in his cabin on the Prisoner Transport, distressed that his memories are fragmenting away, shaking off his nightmare, and then ready to start his adventure as all plucky JRPG heroes are.
Garian is destined to suffer for all time as a child murderer, and even if we could save him, should we?
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OP
OP
Eventually yes, as the game never ends. SSM asserted there were around a hundred variants though.
Woah. Amazing haha, thanks for the reply. Very good to know.
I didn't realize the degree of spoilers I was in for. Oh well. Compelled me to finally buy it back. I'll give it another shot next week for the first time in years.
All I remember of this game is a video from a Saturn demo disc. I remember thinking that the isometric platforming looked like a pain in the ass.
Wait...what, there's a Dark Saviour radio drama? Why haven't I heard anything about this and where can I listen to it?
Also, can anyone shed any light on this mythical hidden 6th parallel that was only in the Japanese version of the game? I'm guessing it was just one of those silly internet rumours but I don't believe it's ever been confirmed one way or the other.
Also, can anyone shed any light on this mythical hidden 6th parallel that was only in the Japanese version of the game? I'm guessing it was just one of those silly internet rumours but I don't believe it's ever been confirmed one way or the other.
Jesus, as a Saturn owner I'm quite embarrassed for not experiencing the wealth of hidden gems on the system
OP
OP
As far as I'm aware, the "parallel 6" rumour isn't true, as much as I'd like it to be.
The most someone has come to breaking Garian out of the purgatory cycle is by triggering a recursive time-loop in Parallel 2 - purposely leaving Kay to her fate twice and being sent back in time twice by Jack in order to to fix things. I've not tried this myself but it seems to cause some game instability and crashes, I love considering the meta-element of that - by creating a time paradox in Garian's mind, are we freeing him from his suffering?
The only way to know for certain would be for someone to do a deep dive into the data on the disc, which would be fascinating. Unfortuntely, this is also way beyond me.
A mate of mine was going to give me his Saturn, but then didn't for reasons. I may have to see if he's open to selling it and pick up a copy of this game.
Great series you've got going on Mama Robotnik !
Great series you've got going on Mama Robotnik !
Just received my copy last friday. Very eager to play this as soon as I am done with Albert Odyssey. The OP made such good arguments to sell this game!
OP! Should I take my time the first playthrough regarding the timer at the beginning?
OP! Should I take my time the first playthrough regarding the timer at the beginning?
Not op, but just play it normally is my advice.
You'll almost certainly finish the section with the timer red (I.e, after 4:30) which will trigger Parallel I anyway. If not, it isn't a huge deal. You don't have to play all the parallels in strict order I-V anyway.
Thanks for the tips. I will simply play it and take whatever time it takes me to reach the captain's room. Really looking forward this one :)
I picked this up back in '96 due to Gamefan coverage and still have it today. I never finished all of the scenarios, but I agree that it is a great game. It was surprisingly unnerving as I played it, beyond my expectations.
The jumping will make you tear your hair out at times, but you'll get used to it for the most part.
The jumping will make you tear your hair out at times, but you'll get used to it for the most part.
Wow, thanks for this awesome post! It's awesome that all these amazing SEGA games that were ignored by all the American media except GameFan are finally getting the critical discussion they deserve.
It took decades for film criticism to become a real "thing", and today's gaming reviews are still basically third-party PR, so it's independent voices who don't stand to lose anything by being honest that can be the true voices of gaming critique.
I wrote a piece on Dark Savior for SEGA Nerds years ago, and this is a much more in-depth exploration of the game. Thank you for putting this out there and getting more people introduced to these amazing games (esp for the Saturn)!
It took decades for film criticism to become a real "thing", and today's gaming reviews are still basically third-party PR, so it's independent voices who don't stand to lose anything by being honest that can be the true voices of gaming critique.
I wrote a piece on Dark Savior for SEGA Nerds years ago, and this is a much more in-depth exploration of the game. Thank you for putting this out there and getting more people introduced to these amazing games (esp for the Saturn)!