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The Expanse Season 5 |OT| Last Man Standing
- Thread starter Deleted member 16516
- Start date
Wanted to say this for a while. What I love about the show is how it treats secondary cast. I guess it has more to do with it being based of the books, but even some of my favorite shows just kill off characters that do not contribute to the story instead of landing them somewhere safe in the plot. Walking Dead is insanely bad with killing off secondary characters when their arcs are complete.
In The Expanse, you had secondary peeps like Erich, Monica and even Bull. In any other show they would be dispensed as soon as they served plot purpose. The show didn't need Erich to be safely transported to Luna. His plot purpose was to get the main guy Amos to the island with the shuttle. The writers could have killed him off in many places during the encounter with the bad guys in the forest. Would have even made for a sappy "go without me, Timmy" moment for Amos. Even Monica, who did not serve an important plot purpose. I for sure thought she was gonna die in that locker. But the show respects its world and the characters that live in it and doesn't cheapen any of it for bullshit tv ratings.
In The Expanse, you had secondary peeps like Erich, Monica and even Bull. In any other show they would be dispensed as soon as they served plot purpose. The show didn't need Erich to be safely transported to Luna. His plot purpose was to get the main guy Amos to the island with the shuttle. The writers could have killed him off in many places during the encounter with the bad guys in the forest. Would have even made for a sappy "go without me, Timmy" moment for Amos. Even Monica, who did not serve an important plot purpose. I for sure thought she was gonna die in that locker. But the show respects its world and the characters that live in it and doesn't cheapen any of it for bullshit tv ratings.
Loved the season finale and this season. I'm giving in, and I'm going to start reading the books now.
Thank Alex's death was the best that could have happened under the circumstances.
Thank Alex's death was the best that could have happened under the circumstances.
Not a book reader, but I much preferred this season over the last one.
Even the pacing issues that cropped up this time out are a far cry from the often-dreary slog that was Season 4. Better performances overall as well.
Even the pacing issues that cropped up this time out are a far cry from the often-dreary slog that was Season 4. Better performances overall as well.
I'm a book reader and I loved it. I actually wondered if non-book readers might've been negatively reacting to the main cast being so split up this season, as well as stuff like Holden and Avasarala only appearing for like a minute in some episodes, while book readers would've been braced for it.
I don't think there's anyway for us to know, and we aren't meant to know.
Holden's reaction to Mao coming aboard was so good I don't even mind that he wasn't in the season much, at least Strait is a producer for the show now so I don't feel too bad him.
I feel like we needed another perspective on Marco, we only have the drummer's faction, Earth and the roci crew who don't like him already. Having more complicated characters like Dawes or someone like Pax would have gone a long way. I guess they didn't have the budget for even more regular cast and sets.
As I went ahead and started (and finished) this book about halfway through the season (the weekly wait got to me), I can see some of the disappointment. It all comes back to how bad off Earth is. It wouldn't really even be that hard to have a more "book like" result, since so much of what happened, happened offscreen. Change the lines to say 4-6 rocks hit in total, and say Billions instead of Millions. What they showed visually wouldn't really change much, since they went with "snow" effect after the rocks hit. The showrunners imply they didn't want to do alot of Armageddon Porn, and was just going to show things as the POV characters saw them.
As is, it doesn't make alot of sense to be in a hurry to get off planet, either for Erich's Crew or Holden's parents, if things aren't completely fucked on Earth.
About Alex's death, I didn't remember Bobbie mentioning stroking out, while Alex was prepping that banking turn. The specific line about Stroking out appears to be said offscreen, which I wonder if it was added in ADR. You could also tell they had to give Alex a delayed stroke, as he was needed for a last couple of bits of information to be said while Bobbie and Naomi are out in space. I imagine his last words were taken from someplace else in the history of the show and put together with some vocal fry effects added on, to make it sound like he was starting to be in distress.
My guess is, the only actual filmed reshoot, was Holden and Naomi in the med bay, and Holden, Naomi and Amos in the hallway. The Luna Bar probably had too many extras and green screen effects to redo.
As is, it doesn't make alot of sense to be in a hurry to get off planet, either for Erich's Crew or Holden's parents, if things aren't completely fucked on Earth.
About Alex's death, I didn't remember Bobbie mentioning stroking out, while Alex was prepping that banking turn. The specific line about Stroking out appears to be said offscreen, which I wonder if it was added in ADR. You could also tell they had to give Alex a delayed stroke, as he was needed for a last couple of bits of information to be said while Bobbie and Naomi are out in space. I imagine his last words were taken from someplace else in the history of the show and put together with some vocal fry effects added on, to make it sound like he was starting to be in distress.
My guess is, the only actual filmed reshoot, was Holden and Naomi in the med bay, and Holden, Naomi and Amos in the hallway. The Luna Bar probably had too many extras and green screen effects to redo.
I'd have to go back and look, but I think you can normally see ships on the outside, while you're in the ringspace. Remember right after the Roci escaped into it, and afterwards the Mars ship entered into the ring? You can slightly see it before it fully comes in. This time, the Barkieth doesn't look visible as it's passing through. It's engines also turn off before it's fully into the ring.
My guess is, it's literally splitting all of this solid matter into atoms. The time pause effect, to me, is just to show us what's happening, I imagine it played out normally, they just blipped out of existence as they went through, similar to when the probe entered into the sidewall of the ringspace.
Looked pretty destroyed. Not a book reader, but I think the protomolecule or whatever that brought up the rings has turned hostile.
Huh, that's true. I thought under normal circumstances they could have foreshadowed it more with Alex looking visibly ill already but I guess that's not how strokes work
I guess another thing is that you see on the ring the colours from the Energi aliens... which we usually don't.
I think the protomolecule activated the aliens that killed the protomolecule aliens.
I can't remember if a throwaway line from someone earlier in the season happened or not, or I might be bringing in a book thing in my mind:
People noticing some ships going missing after they passed through a gate. It's not every ship, but it is a noticeable amount.
Two other questions:
- So what's the deal with the micro asteroid attack? How did Marco and his people pull that off? In the beginning of the season the sun broke apart the rock but this far out at the ring?
- What exactly went down with Camina's crew? I couldn't really tell who was firing at whom, other than the fact that Camina's people all seemed to survive. I know Camina fired on one ship, who fired on the others? And was it just Marco's peoples' ships which were destroyed?
I enjoyed the season, and I've been reading the books alongside re-watching 1-4, and I think it helps a lot, even with the differences between them.
One thing I wish we got to see, even though it's not important at all;
Now I just have to pace myself with the rest of the books until October, if the release date is still the same.
One thing I wish we got to see, even though it's not important at all;
Bobbie riding a missile to save Naomi. Dumb I know, but it had a good build up for it in the book, lol.
Now I just have to pace myself with the rest of the books until October, if the release date is still the same.
1. Had this same thought, that it was the rock that flew close to the sun and broke up, but I'm pretty sure Averserala and the General say the remains of that rock flew into Venus (it's trajectory got messed up). My guess is they literally diped a shitload of small rocks into the stealth paint and flung them on a trajectory (Marco does occasionally look at a high arch trajectory earlier in the season, that was aimed at the ring). A master job of planning and timing, to get his Navy there right as this planned meteor shower. Heck, as I type this, I now wonder if that rock that broke up, was a test run, as Filip's crew had that thing timed out before meteors hit that science ship. I now wonder if those meteors weren't even the rock that broke up from the sun, because why would the science ship put itself in the trajectory of those rocks?
2. I need to rewatch that whole scene, shit happens real fast. From my mind, Drummer fires a rocket that takes out the engine/plume of Oksana's ship, dropping her out of the middle of combat. At that time, the taller white guy tries to stop drummer as she has Karal at gunpoint, because I guess he either doesn't want to fight Inaros or leans towards Inaro's ideals. At that point Drummer fires missiles at the other Inaros ships, who also fire back. Meanwhile on Oksana's ship, I think she's trying to get ahold of Drummer/trying to figure out what happened, when the other guy quickly decides to back what Drummer is doing, and also fires Oksana's ships missiles at the Inaros ships (against what Oksana seems to want him to do, as she tries to stop him).
It's just real fast, and maybe could be edited better. It just seems like 2 ships (Drummers) turn on the other 3 (there were 5 total). I don't know where Drummer's 3rd ship is (Ashfords).
heh, yeah, when I got to that part, and noticing how the show was going, it wasn't going to happen.
Turning that larger battle where Bobbie and Alex escape from Mars Frigate in the Razorback, with the Mars Prime Minister with them, as well as a bunch of guardian missiles, into a disabled ship and a boarding party ambush, negated the whole Missile Riding Bobbie thing.
It kind of flew by but it case it wasn't clear, Naomi's last trick that she was mysteriously doing was forcing the ship to go into a spin to make it harder for Alex to dock. When she receives his message that they are still coming after that is when she jumps out and even manages to warn them the ship is an explosive hazard while floating in space.
She did literally everything she could while being hypoxic, irradiated and dehydrated so yeah she's kind of a huge badass.
She did literally everything she could while being hypoxic, irradiated and dehydrated so yeah she's kind of a huge badass.
Excellent end to the season. Overall I'd say it was very good, and they handled removing Anvar about as well as one could expect. Weirdly I feel like this season was a bit overly slow sometimes, but at the same time could have used like three more episodes to breath and give more time to the impacts on Mars and Earth from the attack, as well as Belter's coming to grips with Inaros. Maybe it was just because it felt like a lot of the characters didn't have much of a trajectory overall. Amos and Naomi certainly did, but Bobbi, Alex, and Holden felt like they eventually reached a point in the season where they were just doing the same thing over and over. Having the split the focus as much as they did was no help.
Attack itself definitely stuck in my head as something where what we saw of the attack and the descriptions didn't line up with the impacts, diminishing the 'impact' (no pun intended) of the single event of the season. What we saw/heard of the Earth attacks would surely be awful for the short term, but not on the global scale they were implying.
Plus the people 'stuck' on the island on a frozen Lake Winnipesaukee made me laugh - just walk across to the shore people! It'll take you like an hour at most! Or take a dingy if there's a concern about thin/missing ice. Unless the lake is completely dead there should be plenty of fish as well.
The setup for S6 (and the info from S3 on) gives a very Freespace vibe:
Despite my gripes, still fantastic and eagerly awaiting S6!
Attack itself definitely stuck in my head as something where what we saw of the attack and the descriptions didn't line up with the impacts, diminishing the 'impact' (no pun intended) of the single event of the season. What we saw/heard of the Earth attacks would surely be awful for the short term, but not on the global scale they were implying.
Plus the people 'stuck' on the island on a frozen Lake Winnipesaukee made me laugh - just walk across to the shore people! It'll take you like an hour at most! Or take a dingy if there's a concern about thin/missing ice. Unless the lake is completely dead there should be plenty of fish as well.
The setup for S6 (and the info from S3 on) gives a very Freespace vibe:
The primary antagonists in Freespace 1 and 2 are the Shivans, super powerful incomprehensible aliens that show up during the middle of a war between Earth and the Vasudians and promptly beat both sides to a pulp, including wiping out the Vasudian homeworld, before their fleet is destroyed during a subspace transit to Earth. In that universe Subspace, akin to the ring gates universe, is used to leap between various systems. Defeat of that fleet results in that channel to Earth collapsing and cutting it off.
Freespace 2 takes place decades later with contact with Earth still cut off. The Shivans return and over the course of the game you learn that they are A. Far more numerous and dangerous than anyone thought (FS1 fleet was just a scout fleet), B. Capable of making starts go supernova, C. Wiped out a hyper advanced precursor species that seemed to have developed a means to talk to the Shivans (which one character takes advantage of) and D. Wipes out any civilization that starts using subspace.
While more metaphysical, the Shivans rather much map to the 'subspace aliens' that appear to have zapped the Mars ship at the end, with the Protomolecule creators mapping to the Freespace 'Ancients'.
I think Freespace 3 was going to reveal the Shivans were manufactured to protect subspace due to some ancient species from the far distant past discovering using it was accelerating entropy in our universe and would cause it to die early.
Freespace 2 takes place decades later with contact with Earth still cut off. The Shivans return and over the course of the game you learn that they are A. Far more numerous and dangerous than anyone thought (FS1 fleet was just a scout fleet), B. Capable of making starts go supernova, C. Wiped out a hyper advanced precursor species that seemed to have developed a means to talk to the Shivans (which one character takes advantage of) and D. Wipes out any civilization that starts using subspace.
While more metaphysical, the Shivans rather much map to the 'subspace aliens' that appear to have zapped the Mars ship at the end, with the Protomolecule creators mapping to the Freespace 'Ancients'.
I think Freespace 3 was going to reveal the Shivans were manufactured to protect subspace due to some ancient species from the far distant past discovering using it was accelerating entropy in our universe and would cause it to die early.
Despite my gripes, still fantastic and eagerly awaiting S6!
OP
OP
It's confirmed yes.
The decision to end the series was Alcon's, the production company responsible for The Expanse, and Ty Franck and Daniel Abraham have stated that they had a plan for the story's conclusion and ending at season 6 didn't interfere with that plan.
They are open to more Expanse material in live action, but that does depend upon Alcon. We may or may not see books 7-9 adapted in the future, but for now, season 6 is the last we'll see of the Roci crew, Chrissy, Bobbie, Drummer and everyone else.
For the book readers, is losing Alex for S6 (and whatever theoretical adaptation they do for Books 7-9) problematic or one they can work around fairly easily? Like sub in Bobbi or a new crewmate for piloting.
I've read as far as Book 3, but waiting to do the second trilogy until after S6 is over.
I've read as far as Book 3, but waiting to do the second trilogy until after S6 is over.
OP
OP
It's not much of a problem, now that we have Bull in the show as well as Bobbie. As a character he won't be missed all too much.
It's an easy work around. Though, Alex and Bobby's friendship is one of my personal highlights of the series.
It's not ideal, but doable. It's like if they lost Scottie mid Star Trek. They could sub in someone, but it's not the same. Regardless, I'm glad he's gone and that they didn't try to recast him.
Weirdly there's more foreshadowing of this in the book (even though it doesn't actually happen) than in the TV show. Earlier on the in book Alex passes out after a high-G burn.
I guess the TV show wants this to be slightly ambiguous, so this is technically a spoiler I guess.
The ship is very destroyed. It has been split into its component subatomic particles.
I don't remember anyone saying that in the show either. If it did happen it was indeed throwaway. I think it's probably good that it was left out though, as it wasn't really a necessary part of the season and would only just have foreshadowed the end.
Alex is almost an irrelevancy for book 6. Quick contrast in terms of the books, in Nemesis Games he has 13 viewpoint chapters, in Babylon's Ashes he has 2.
For hypothetical future adaptations it would be a bit more of an issue as Alex is more present in those. The way I usually describe Alex's part in those books, though, in as spoiler-free a manner as possible, is that the things Alex does are important, but it is not important that those things be done by Alex. Other characters could easily take his place.
They really lucked out by having Bull piloting the Roci this season.
I haven't read Book 4 on but it seemed pretty clear to me this is what they were implying happened to it. The big indicator being that you can see through the ring gates, but none of the craft is visible on the normal-space side. Which if you were in the ship as it happened would be freaky as hell depending how fast you were going. Seems like the ships go realllly slow through the gates though, for visual effect presumably, since at normal space speeds or even the speeds permitted in the ring gate zone your entire ship would go through one in like a millisecond.
Good to know. Also sounds like given his sorta hiatus from importance in B/S 6 the show could use whatever character takes on his role next season to potentially lay the groundwork or at least develop the character enough that they could do Alex's part in the theoretical adaptation of B7-9.[/QUOTE]
No major spoiler here, but just to be safe:
He can be replaced as pilot without any major issues. You're potentially losing his point of view as a former Mars pilot, they can have Bobbi step in for that type of stuff when Mars Navy comes up.
The camera
Superb television.
being focused on Naomi's face in close-up the whole time during the rescue was so powerful
Superb television.
Loved these moments. That whisky drop was a great NOOOO moment of the episode, but it was a really nice touch - those kinda things are what make this series stand out. It took me a second to realise where Amos was going with his Holden pointed a gun at me story then I was pissing myself, Wes is so good and Holden's face ahh.
I'd say he's the main character that can most easily be removed without it having a huge impact on the story.
It's still a bummer though. If you watch this episode knowing why he's killed off it's impossible not to be taken out of the narrative, and I can only imagine it would be baffling to a viewer who is unaware of why they did it. His death didn't really integrate in a way that benefited the story in any way.
As a sidenote, I completely agree that they downplayed the devastation on Earth too much. It felt properly apocalyptic in the books. Other that that I still really enjoyed the season. And I'd bet money that there will be a couple of follow up movies a few years after season 6.
Greatest comedic moment of the show so far?I love Holden's face seeing Clarissa:
Honestly, no one on the moon knows how to catch a slow falling object? Reaction times must be getting dulled by that low gravity.
Man, if I didn't know about the Cas Anvar stuff I would've been PISSED at the way Alex went out. Why'd he have to be such a piece of shit?! 5 years of great character building down the drain. Such a shame for the show. I would have preferred if they just wrote him out between seasons, tbh.
Other than that, I loved the episode and season overall.
At least we have Peaches and Monica presumably as part of the crew instead for season 6.
Other than that, I loved the episode and season overall.
At least we have Peaches and Monica presumably as part of the crew instead for season 6.
OP
OP
Peaches would be a good addtion considering her engineering skills, but Monica's just a journalist, so wouldn't add anything of value to the crew of the Roci.
I've watched the whole show from the start in the last like 2 weeks and absolutely loved it - just finished the last episode. I had no idea about the Cas Anwar stuff - that's awful.
I loved Alex - and I actually thought his death was pretty good and felt 'fair' in a way after Holden and Naomi each getting out of what seemed like certain death right before that, like somebody had to pay the price for their good fortune.
Sad it's over for now, though i'm sure my wife won't miss me waking her up after trying to sneak into bed at 3am.
I loved Alex - and I actually thought his death was pretty good and felt 'fair' in a way after Holden and Naomi each getting out of what seemed like certain death right before that, like somebody had to pay the price for their good fortune.
Sad it's over for now, though i'm sure my wife won't miss me waking her up after trying to sneak into bed at 3am.
Am I the only one who saw the Serenity parallell in how they offed Alex? I actually think it was kind of decent. Not every death has to be earned. While I think there's something to be said for fitting a character death in a certain point in their (or another character's) arc, sometimes death is just random. It happens and people around the deceased have to deal with it. That said, I doubt they'll dwell on it. Seemed they tried to sort out Naomi's guilt pretty quickly. Would have been an interesting thing going forward in S6 otherwise.
Definitely superior to S3 And S4. Not sure about 1 and 2. I loved the Amos centered episodes, and Holden being on the back burner was good.
Definitely superior to S3 And S4. Not sure about 1 and 2. I loved the Amos centered episodes, and Holden being on the back burner was good.
I almost did a spit take when Holden said Alex died of a stroke. He really got Poochy'd, complete with the freeze frame for his last scene. Bull drinking out of his cup with his name on it was ice cold too. Good that Cas is gone and I'm not too torn up about losing the character. He did nothing for four seasons and considering how his family rightfully shut the door in his face, he wasn't doing anything later anyway.
Overall, I feel like this season and last season could have been combined without losing too much. They both very much felt like setup and neither did a great job of establishing how the political dynamics have shifted thanks to the ring gates. Instead of Holden doing nothing this season, he could have been on Ilus, and instead of the rest of Rocinate crew doing nothing on Ilus they could had their personal journeys. At the very least it could have been closer to how the arcs were handled when it was SciFi where they were loosely contained to half a season.
Also got to echo other people saying that the fallout from the asteroid attack on Earth felt very muted for what should have been near-apocalyptic. The most that seemingly happened is that it gave Avasarala her position back after losing it for about four episodes.
Overall, I feel like this season and last season could have been combined without losing too much. They both very much felt like setup and neither did a great job of establishing how the political dynamics have shifted thanks to the ring gates. Instead of Holden doing nothing this season, he could have been on Ilus, and instead of the rest of Rocinate crew doing nothing on Ilus they could had their personal journeys. At the very least it could have been closer to how the arcs were handled when it was SciFi where they were loosely contained to half a season.
Also got to echo other people saying that the fallout from the asteroid attack on Earth felt very muted for what should have been near-apocalyptic. The most that seemingly happened is that it gave Avasarala her position back after losing it for about four episodes.
She would give the Roci crew much needed journalistic integrity, something they've always lacked.
I'd say so. I was grinning ear to ear knowing it was coming as that conversation progressed. What sold it was how excited Amos was about bringing her on. No one could say no to him. Funny enough I think it works even better having killed Alex off. It's a transition for him in probably the most Amos way possible. I think so at least.
I will say, I have to imagine there was shot footage of bringing Naomi into the race ship that was cut. It worked without it imo really seamless, but idk I just can't imagine they scoop her out of space and she just appears in the Roci's med bay afterwards.