How terrible the events surrounding Cas. Fucking dumbass not only ruined the lives of women by being an abusive prick, but also his own career and an awesome sci-fi show.
Just horrible.
Just horrible.
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The Expanse Season 5 |OT| Last Man Standing
- Thread starter Deleted member 16516
- Start date
That was an immensely satisfying finale. I was afraid it would end with Marco's approach on the Ring, but then they kept giving me more.
Handling Alex/Cas this season was unexpected. They clearly just added blood to a still frame, but there must have been a decent amount of reshoots for everything after acknowledging his death, plus maybe even him not being at the party on Luna? I expected him to be written off between seasons, but this works.
I love the way this show choreographs space battles making it look interesting even when the ships wouldn't be in visual range of each other, what with the camera zooming through space with the ordinance.
Poor Drummer splitting up her group marriage, plus Marco is really going to hate her now. If I have a complaint about her plot it's that I never got to know the names of everyone in her group/it was hard to keep track of who's who.
Handling Alex/Cas this season was unexpected. They clearly just added blood to a still frame, but there must have been a decent amount of reshoots for everything after acknowledging his death, plus maybe even him not being at the party on Luna? I expected him to be written off between seasons, but this works.
I love the way this show choreographs space battles making it look interesting even when the ships wouldn't be in visual range of each other, what with the camera zooming through space with the ordinance.
Poor Drummer splitting up her group marriage, plus Marco is really going to hate her now. If I have a complaint about her plot it's that I never got to know the names of everyone in her group/it was hard to keep track of who's who.
That was a nice season finale, but unfortunately I gotta agree with a bunch of posters and say I found the season kinda weak. Naomi, Amos and Avasarala's arcs got some nice forward momemtum and development, but Holden, Alex, Bobby and to a lesser extent Drummer's arcs felt like were just spinning wheels for much of the season. Even Marco, the big bad of the season, after doing his bombastic asteroid bombardment of Earth, did pretty much jackshit for the rest of the season.
And even though the asteroid attack on Earth obviously drove forward most of the storylines of the season, the show didn't actually make it feel like that much of a big deal. We never got much of a sense of the devastation caused by the attack, aside from the glimpses we got on Amos' storyline.
Overall, it feels like the season was just a bunch of buildup for a payoff that never came. The setup we got for S6 was very intriguing tho, so I hope S6 can deliver.
So yeah, can't say I was much of a fan of S5 sadly. Of the Amazon seasons, I liked S4 much more.
And even though the asteroid attack on Earth obviously drove forward most of the storylines of the season, the show didn't actually make it feel like that much of a big deal. We never got much of a sense of the devastation caused by the attack, aside from the glimpses we got on Amos' storyline.
Overall, it feels like the season was just a bunch of buildup for a payoff that never came. The setup we got for S6 was very intriguing tho, so I hope S6 can deliver.
So yeah, can't say I was much of a fan of S5 sadly. Of the Amazon seasons, I liked S4 much more.
Alex's death was just lol, but hey its probably the best they could do. As I said before, the whole season just felt like a snooze fest but at least it seems to have set something interesting up for next season.
I actually lol'd when they said "it was a stroke". I understand that it was probably the cleanest way to do it, so it's not a big deal.
Good season though, just hope season 6 doesn't feel rushed. This looks like the big payoff?
Good season though, just hope season 6 doesn't feel rushed. This looks like the big payoff?
I love the show but the Marco arc and his rise to power seems completely unbelievable, at least in its accelerated matter this season. It gives me flashbacks to GoT S8 and its warp speed rush to the finale.
I don't mind the eventual conclusion but it just seemed to surface way too quickly. I guess it explains why that storyline took precedence over something as extraordinary as the ring arc though.
Still not sure how I feel to be honest.
I don't mind the eventual conclusion but it just seemed to surface way too quickly. I guess it explains why that storyline took precedence over something as extraordinary as the ring arc though.
Still not sure how I feel to be honest.
Had no idea about that actor being a scumbag, that whole thing makes a lot more sense now. Thought it was out of nowhere and really anticlimactic, but best way to handle that awful situation.
Overall I liked the season, but definitely lost a lot of steam after 5 or 6 episodes, I'm excited to see how it all plays out at least.
Overall I liked the season, but definitely lost a lot of steam after 5 or 6 episodes, I'm excited to see how it all plays out at least.
Even though the focus was off Amos this episode I really like two of his moments - the time when he drops the bottle because he applies the amount of force he'd have needed on Earth out of recent habit (astronauts sometimes do the reverse after coming back from long stints on ISS, accidentally putting things in the air expecting them to float there), and his conversation with Holden where - in the most Amos-like way possible - he genuinely thinks that his personalised analogy about people who would have killed each other in the past not wanting to kill each other any more has sorted out Clarissa's placement on the ship and dealt with Holden's feelings about that.
The situation in the books is much more dire, and I think a lot of the weight of that story strand is due to how dire it gets. The show bypassing that almost certainly has sensible production reasons (the TV show has always worked on somewhat different scales to the books, and depicting large-scale devastation would not be cheap, and also most TV viewers probably don't have a whole lot of emotional resonance with this version of Earth anyway), but I think it also dampened down the consequences. Usually the shows' divergences from the books have been a good thing, but I think this is one of the times when it's not.
This is probably my biggest criticism of the season.
The situation in the books is much more dire, and I think a lot of the weight of that story strand is due to how dire it gets. The show bypassing that almost certainly has sensible production reasons (the TV show has always worked on somewhat different scales to the books, and depicting large-scale devastation would not be cheap, and also most TV viewers probably don't have a whole lot of emotional resonance with this version of Earth anyway), but I think it also dampened down the consequences. Usually the shows' divergences from the books have been a good thing, but I think this is one of the times when it's not.
Really I think the main issue with the season was scaling down the attack on Earth. I get the reasons for not making as bad as it was in the books, but I think they went a bit too far in the other direction, making certain things feel less vital than they should.
I will say they showed a lot more in that last scene than I would have expected :o
I will say they showed a lot more in that last scene than I would have expected :o
It's actually makes perfect sense he took advantage of several events. The fact that the belt and Mars basically became irrelevant was a major reason why he rose to power so quickly. There was definitely built up and this entire season was that.
In the books, what are the bigger effects of the meteor impacts? It's true that they feel a bit glossed over in the show.
Without getting too far ahead of this season and the fifth book (because it's possible season 6 might try to course correct a bit, and also to avoid spoilers), the most noticeable immediately different effects are that there's more people dead (the number isn't clear by the end of book 5, but it's in the billions, whereas Holden is still using "millions" in the TV show), Avasarala goes straight to being the Acting Secretary-General (Paster doesn't exist), the entire UN fleet is recalled to Earth to attempt to intercept future rocks. There's no attack on Pallas (Earth isn't in a position to do things like that).
Avasarala, near the end, opens a meeting with this brutal summation: "We're all clear that Earth is fucked, yes?" - and in the books, that's much closer to true than my interpretation of what's on-screen in the show. The Earth of the show feels significantly more powerful and capable, which makes Marco's threats feel less substantial and less enactable.
Yeah to me Marco still feels like a rogue pirate as opposed to this unifying figure. We don't get an understanding of his support in colonies. The actor does a good job but just being surrounded by like 5 people throughout the season lessens your impact. Maybe if Marco gave that speech he gave on his ship on a colony surrounded by 10s and thousands of people, it would have brought more impact.
Not all ships make it through the rings okay. Some get eaten.
It's mostly just a bunch of setup for later stuff, I think the filming took place before they knew season 6 would be the last but this was all in the book for season 5 anyway.
The fiery stuff indicates the alien entity(ies) that eliminated the civilization that created the protomolecule. As stated by Holden in the first episode of this season to Fred. And as seen at the end of season 4 with that red orb thing the scientist lady walks into.
Yea the fact that they downplayed the asteroid attack sort of made this season a bust. Probably should have made an entire episode dedicated to it and see some of the ramifications upclose than the offscreen stuff they did.
This. Episode 10 has maybe the best space battle of all time in this episode.
That thing at the end they showed was
Laconia Station right?
It would be such a tease to show that, and not get those hyper-advanced ships next season.
It would be such a tease to show that, and not get those hyper-advanced ships next season.
Maybe there will be a time lapse next season.
5 years instead of 30?
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So without answering with book spoilers, the MCRN ship with Sauveterre is basically incinerated by what's probably the same *whatever* that Holden experienced, and that probably wiped out the civilization that created the protomolecule, while traversing the ring to get to the same system with the planet that Cortazar is already on?
The stuff with Alex was definitely done with reshoots. Here are a few things I noticed (just putting them under spoilers to not bloat up my post:
The stuff with Alex was definitely done with reshoots. Here are a few things I noticed (just putting them under spoilers to not bloat up my post:
- Alex's death was definitely a freeze frame from the actor, with blood added after
- All of the other scenes with the Roci crew could've easily had Alex in them, most of the time the crew wasn't that sad, when they are it could've been reshoots
- In the bar where they're all catching up, there's an empty chair in the center where Amos and Naomi are - I genuinely think Alex was sitting in that chair and he was CG'd out
- When Bobbie talks with Avasarala, Avasarala offers Bobbie condolences, but it's obviously ADR'd since it sounds different, and what she says doesn't match what little we can see of how her mouth moves
None of this is really groundbreaking or shocking, but I'm always fascinated to see how show creators and editors and CG artists and everyone else tries to salvage footage or deal with unexpected events.
What is this taken from?
Yes. This will be explained next season for sure.
The whole Alex thing must look so weird to casual fans watching, that freeze frame thing with the cgi blood is ridiculous. If it was meant to happen from the start there would be some dramatic shots, maybe he looks at a picture of his family, says something inspirational, etc. It just seems really out of place and kinda random.
And it also interferes with the happy reunion thing after being apart all season and Avasarala's speech at the end, it's very jarring. But this was the best way to write him out, the character would never sit out the stuff coming up and a recast for the last season feels nonsensical.
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Yep, god damn. I legit liked his character until I heard about the shit. Was as clean as they could do it by not giving it too much attention.
I was unaware of the stuff with Alex and didn't catch any of the issues while watching it. I just assumed he died in the book. Probably helped that I watch it on an iPad vs a TV.
The X-ray feature on prime, it has bts screenshots from the episode. Alex was totally in the reunion scene with the other 3 rock crew, and a reshoot happened.
I disagree. We saw the asteroids hit and we know many people died (including Avasarala's husband and Nancy Gao) and that Earth wants revenge. That's basically all you need, despite the Amos/Clarissa stuff digging deeper into it. I mean, if this was a show with a much bigger budget they'd probably show more of that, but they're not. It's a character focused show and this season had some ofthe best character moments in the entire run so far. Naomi was amazing, every scene with Drummer (from discovering Ashford's ship to the bubbles scene to the Oksana scenes) was tremendous, the moments between Amos and Clarissa were great showing real character growth for both, many excellent scenes with Avasarala (from the"I'm not your favorite stripper" to her goodbye to her late husband), Fred's shocking death, both of Naomi's space jumps, the suplex, the space battle in the season finale, the set-up for the next season and so on.
Tremendous television.
Not necessarily. If Earth society collapses and is crippled and then that changes the power dynamics...allowing new factions to rise which has new socio political impacts. But if only millions die then even with heavy infrastructure damage that doesn't really feel like the kind of event that'd cripple the biggest, largest and most widely spread superpower with easy access to resources. Like Earth has 100s of Battleships vs Inaros' 10 something, and without the rogue MCRN help a non crippled Earth can easily take dominance of Sol. But that's ofcourse not the case, as Earth is indeed crippled but the show simply did not do a good job at showing that.
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I agree with the sentiment that the aspect of Marcos / Free Navy attack on the inners was strangely downplayed compared to the books.
I think all of these could've been addressed easily with some additional dialogues sprinkled out in the various episodes to give more depth and scale to all the shit that went down but was brushed over which is weird.
As others have mentioned in the books they go way more into details on the destruction they have caused on earth and how basically they think earth is fucked. Another aspect that was maybe one sentence in the season is that Mars also was hit hard (although not with asteroids but with eliminating basically the Martian leadership) but in different ways in a simultaneous coordinated attack. Additionally it was also not detailed what a stranglehold the Free Navy got on the system through capturing various important targets like shipyards etc.
I think all of these could've been addressed easily with some additional dialogues sprinkled out in the various episodes to give more depth and scale to all the shit that went down but was brushed over which is weird.
Yea it feels more like a speedbump than anything else. I never got the sense that this was a paradigm shift moment in the TV series.
I don't think it would have made much of a difference as this season was clearly more interested in zooming in on the Naomi-Inaros and Amos-Clarissa dynamics.
Think people are being a bit impatient regarding the effects of the attack on Earth. This season was meant to focus on a different set of characters than usual. Undoubtably we'll see the long-term ramifications of the events of this season, next season.
This season did feel like half of a larger story. I mean I still really enjoyed it a lot. But still felt like we only got half of the story, which was clearly the point.
I just think that if they had a 12 episode season, all my issues could have been resolved, but that probably wasnt in the cards with COVID. Overall though, this was a really great season. It was like a really high production version of the original SYFY show lol.
Really looking forward to just straight up reading the last 4 books lol. Ive read the first 3, but stopped and just watched the show.
I have one question about the very end of the finale:
I think if they had defeated Marcos and his Free Navy, it would have felt more complete, but they obviously wanted to keep him around as a threat for next season. That being said, I could totally see this new MCRN faction just destroying the Free Navy when they are ready to come back and take over the entire galaxy or whatever they call our solar system and the ring worlds.
The only actual complaints I have is that I wish they had shown more of how Mars was effected. Rather than just saying that the whole leadership structure was whipped out on a news clip, or however they revealed it.
Then, I wish the crew had gotten together sooner and seen them interacting more after being apart the entire season. But thats just a pet peeve of mine that I dont like when any show does it. Game of Thrones was the only one to pull it off, but thats mainly because the entire show is about the family being apart and trying to find their way back together for the end.
The only actual complaints I have is that I wish they had shown more of how Mars was effected. Rather than just saying that the whole leadership structure was whipped out on a news clip, or however they revealed it.
Then, I wish the crew had gotten together sooner and seen them interacting more after being apart the entire season. But thats just a pet peeve of mine that I dont like when any show does it. Game of Thrones was the only one to pull it off, but thats mainly because the entire show is about the family being apart and trying to find their way back together for the end.
I just think that if they had a 12 episode season, all my issues could have been resolved, but that probably wasnt in the cards with COVID. Overall though, this was a really great season. It was like a really high production version of the original SYFY show lol.
Really looking forward to just straight up reading the last 4 books lol. Ive read the first 3, but stopped and just watched the show.
I have one question about the very end of the finale:
when that MCRN ship went through the gate, why did it look different than usual? Like there were these weird red and black swirls and stuff that made it look like the ring was doing something bad.
Haven't watched the finale yet however in the books...
The rogue Mars faction that go through the ring settle down on a new planet and they start building advanced ships and weapons based on the protomolecule tech via research from Cortezar. So i assume that may have been teased in the show as some form of first modification they have done to their ships already. Or another possibility since you mentioned ring gates is that the bigger alien threat that wiped out the creators of the protomoleclue and ring gates are still present in the universe and may react to their technology
I only know minimal book spoilers for going forward, but this was still my reaction at the Laconia reveal and the Duarte name drop:
Along with the ending, I loved the camera staying on Naomi after she spaced herself, with the reveal of Bobbie saving her without the camera leaving Naomi's face. (People have joked about Naomi crying too much this season, but I was tearing up with her throughout her float in space, not to mention when Bobbie saved her.) Amos' reveal of Peaches to Holden was brilliant, too, along with the utter glee of Amos dragging Peaches into the ship. Drummer betraying Inaros and setting of the chain of events to save the Roci was an excellent FUCK YEAH moment. I was sad about her polycule breaking up, but even without my investment in Naomi/the Roci crew, she made a sensible decision as Inaros was never going to let them be free. (Also: fuck yeah Michio!) ETA: Amos and Erich's goodbye was great, too.
Man, fuck Cas Anvar. I didn't think there had been time for reshoots/extensive re-editing, so I was legit shocked when Alex died. It was noticeable that they had to cut a few corners (it felt like they wrapped up the death of a main cast member very quickly with very little time to breathe), but considering what The Expanse team was dealing with plus COVID, the end result with Alex's death and the aftermath was impressive. Kudos to everyone involved. I'm curious if we'll see the impact of Alex's loss on the characters next season, or will it be glossed over. I'd been going back and forth whether they'd recast, kill Alex off-screen, or write him off, but I agree that killing him off was the right decision in the end -- and Alex got to go out in a blaze of glory doing what he loved and saving Naomi, and him taking Fred's book death was fitting. It's a shame Alex didn't have a lot to do this season, and I'll really miss Alex as a character and his chemistry with the Roci family, but again, fuck Cas Anvar.
Bull fitting in with the Roci crew family will be... interesting, lol. He's kind of half-way between Alex and S1-S3 Amos as a character: gruff and combative but very snarky. (Can we keep Monica, too? No? Please?)
S5 was definitely Naomi's time to shine (I didn't think I could love her more, but here we are), along with Amos and Drummer. I need more time to think about it, but I feel like you could have removed 1/3 of S5 and it would have changed very little regarding the overall plot, which is frustrating. I know S4 was a bit slower, but I really enjoyed the threat of Ilus itself (along with the tension between the settlers of Ilus compounding the issue), along with everything that lead up to the finale. It'll be interesting to look back on S5 after S6, because a lot of the season felt like set up for what is to come.
Yeah, I thought they did an impressive job considering -- kudos to everyone involved. (I'm curious what Avasarala was originally saying to Bobbie.) As you said, it's always fascinating to see how everyone works around unexpected issues.
Along with the ending, I loved the camera staying on Naomi after she spaced herself, with the reveal of Bobbie saving her without the camera leaving Naomi's face. (People have joked about Naomi crying too much this season, but I was tearing up with her throughout her float in space, not to mention when Bobbie saved her.) Amos' reveal of Peaches to Holden was brilliant, too, along with the utter glee of Amos dragging Peaches into the ship. Drummer betraying Inaros and setting of the chain of events to save the Roci was an excellent FUCK YEAH moment. I was sad about her polycule breaking up, but even without my investment in Naomi/the Roci crew, she made a sensible decision as Inaros was never going to let them be free. (Also: fuck yeah Michio!) ETA: Amos and Erich's goodbye was great, too.
Man, fuck Cas Anvar. I didn't think there had been time for reshoots/extensive re-editing, so I was legit shocked when Alex died. It was noticeable that they had to cut a few corners (it felt like they wrapped up the death of a main cast member very quickly with very little time to breathe), but considering what The Expanse team was dealing with plus COVID, the end result with Alex's death and the aftermath was impressive. Kudos to everyone involved. I'm curious if we'll see the impact of Alex's loss on the characters next season, or will it be glossed over. I'd been going back and forth whether they'd recast, kill Alex off-screen, or write him off, but I agree that killing him off was the right decision in the end -- and Alex got to go out in a blaze of glory doing what he loved and saving Naomi, and him taking Fred's book death was fitting. It's a shame Alex didn't have a lot to do this season, and I'll really miss Alex as a character and his chemistry with the Roci family, but again, fuck Cas Anvar.
Bull fitting in with the Roci crew family will be... interesting, lol. He's kind of half-way between Alex and S1-S3 Amos as a character: gruff and combative but very snarky. (Can we keep Monica, too? No? Please?)
S5 was definitely Naomi's time to shine (I didn't think I could love her more, but here we are), along with Amos and Drummer. I need more time to think about it, but I feel like you could have removed 1/3 of S5 and it would have changed very little regarding the overall plot, which is frustrating. I know S4 was a bit slower, but I really enjoyed the threat of Ilus itself (along with the tension between the settlers of Ilus compounding the issue), along with everything that lead up to the finale. It'll be interesting to look back on S5 after S6, because a lot of the season felt like set up for what is to come.
Yeah, I thought they did an impressive job considering -- kudos to everyone involved. (I'm curious what Avasarala was originally saying to Bobbie.) As you said, it's always fascinating to see how everyone works around unexpected issues.
As someone who wasn't aware of the Cas Anvar situation (yeah I just binged the whole series in 3 weeks :p), I was expecting some treachery from the new pilot of the Rocinante (don't remember his name) with the journalist analysis of all the missiles.
It was especially troubling with the shot where we see the pilot driking in Amar's mug. But now that I learned the situation with Cas, it's clearer.
BTW, fantastic show and I can't wait for the next season. Having binged all the episodes in such a short time, I must say that this season is the closest to a classic tv show rythm. In the previous ones, the best episodes aren't necessarly the last ones.
It was especially troubling with the shot where we see the pilot driking in Amar's mug. But now that I learned the situation with Cas, it's clearer.
BTW, fantastic show and I can't wait for the next season. Having binged all the episodes in such a short time, I must say that this season is the closest to a classic tv show rythm. In the previous ones, the best episodes aren't necessarly the last ones.
Yeah, as much of a hardass Bobbie is, it felt a bit off that she wasn't more affected by Alex's death . But I guess they did the best with what they had and I prefer it over writing Alex out between seasons.
All those juiced-up burns will give you a stroke. We advanced in all kinds of medicine except basic travel side effects. Ah well, they probably had a day to come up with something.
Yeah with regard to Earth
From the books they made it clear that earth was done as a superpower and possibly a habital planet.That the worlds of the ring was the future. I didn't get that same sense from the rock impacts. They didn't have to show it, they could have explained it. Maybe they are waiting for the next season.
I'm not thrilled that they are mashing two major storylines into the final season, but I get it. I'm super happy they are doing Laconia at least. I would have been bummed if they skipped it.
Yeah, in the end this is my biggest criticism of the season. S5 suffered a bit from what I call "Marvel Netflix syndrome", where they don't have enough plot to fill out an entire season and so what they have is stretched out. I don't think we needed several episodes in a row of spaceships awkwardly chasing each other in space in the second half of the season, but here we are. I def feel the season should had been shorter, or started adapting some material from book 6.
It may seem as a convenient last minute plot device to write off the character but in the books this is how
Fred Johnson
So in that sense while it seems lazy its not an unheard of way to die at least in the books.
OP
OP
Aa someone who still wears suits and has Desi roots, I like the future tie-free suits worn by the politicians and adore Chrissy's shalwar kameez and sari outfits.
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