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Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
There has been some (justified) review bombing of the transphobic attitude within Atlus games like Persona and Catherine. But yes a majority is right wing, but not exclusive.
Persona games got review bombed seemingly by one person making a ton of alt accounts on Metacritic. This happened with other SMT games as well, and we don't know the reasoning for why someone spent so much time doing that. Can't find anything about Catherine being review bombed.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
The issue here is that when people hear "review bombing" they go straight to the garbage examples.

Sometimes communication has broken down between consumer and developer, and the streak of review "bombs" are frustrated consumers who have tried other channels and just bee ignored. So, it can be a valid symptom of a larger problem... but usually "review bombing" is something else.
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
At best, review bombing illustrates a missing means of communicating with the developer/publisher and thus is the only way for customers to make their voices heard. At worst, and this is far more likely than what I just mentioned, it's just fanboy trash that contributes nothing.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
You're attempting to discuss this in a place that puts far too much weight on publication reviews as if they're the end all be all narrative. I don't think you'll find the discussion here nuanced to say the least.
 

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,260
Even if you think that review bombing is justified, at some point you have to realize that engaging in such activity is probably not a good or healthy way for an adult human to spend their time.

Not every pizza you eat is going to be great, not every game you play is going to be what you want it to be. Suck it up and move on with life.
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
At best, review bombing illustrates a missing means of communicating with the developer/publisher and thus is the only way for customers to make their voices heard. At worst, and this is far more likely than what I just mentioned, it's just fanboy trash that contributes nothing.
That's the thing, there's a possibility for review bombing to be used for good. But it rarely ever is, and I think that review bombing now generally being associated with angry bigots has made it lose what little power it could have for good. It's unlikely that criticism received through review bombs will be taken seriously at this point.
 
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OtterX

Member
Mar 12, 2020
1,795
If gamers keep review bombing, companies are just going to eventually remove user reviews. Nintendo has never had user reviews on the Switch eShop.

Maybe some sort of confirmation that you own or have played the game would be a good way to cut down the problem.
 

Panic Freak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,585
I hope this thread takes a "I decided to review bomb this anime game with an internet bot I made because my waifu wasn't treated the way I wanted" turn.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,387
Review Bombing is the only weapon consumers have to make their voices heard, especially since "voting with your wallet" and "boycotting" do absolutely nothing to do the bottom line of the publishers. (Note: I do both of these, but for my own personal stances)

Unfortunately, that same weapon is abused an overwhelming majority of times for shitty purposes. On the whole, review bombing is a bad practice. It has, however, created headlines that have caused action for shitty publisher practices in the industry. It's not as black & white as people are saying, but it's definitely WAY into the "misused" end of the spectrum.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,401
Has anyone here ever not played a game because metacritic was reviewbombed by users?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that person exists, but the number of them have to be so low that it really doesn't matter. Feels like screaming into the void.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,247
It's kind of pathetic and immature, usually just misguided anger like so many things with "gamers."

People act like buying a goddamn video game is the highest form of personal expression attainable. It's a binary decision, either buy the game or don't, nothing else to it.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Here's one example of review bombing that could be seen as a more positive form of protest against some shitty publisher decisions:

www.pcgamer.com

Steam review bombing is working, and Chinese players are a powerful new voice

Flooding Steam reviews has become a popular form of protest, and now Chinese players are using reviews to demand localization.

1,113 negative reviews slammed Nier's Steam page in a single day, essentially doubling the total number of negative reviews overnight. That's not enough to sink a game like Nier, but it is enough to drop its 'recent reviews' from positive to 'mixed' in early May. What happened? Why the sudden rush of negativity? On April 27, Square Enix released Nier: Automata in Asia—without Chinese language support. And hours after release, they doubled the price in China. It turns out that's a really, really good way to piss off thousands of players.

And another:

Arkham Knight famously released in such a terrible state on PC that is was review bombed to hell and Warner Bros reacted by REMOVING the game from sale to fix it. Would they have done this if consumers hadn't hit back as they did?

news.softpedia.com

Batman: Arkham Knight PC Users Bomb Steam Reviews, Metacritic Due to Issues - Update

PC fans are angry over performance, stability, fps issues

We know very well that there have been many times that publishers have ignored glaring issues, often for years after release. Sometimes consumer frustration manifests in this way because there is a clear lack of productive communication and.or their calls are being outright ignored.
 

Deleted member 1238

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,070
Review bombing has made user reviews obsolete and useless. They were rarely taken seriously before this trend, but now they're just a joke when discussing a game's reception. It's not a necessary evil. It's just the excuse most sites will use when they inevitably remove user scores. When that day comes nothing of value will have been lost.
 

Sean Mirrsen

Banned
May 9, 2018
1,159
I think it's important to distinguish review bombing and "review bombing". Review bombing is when a group of people instigates a community into massed negative (or positive) reviews to push an agenda. "Review bombing" is when something about the game, whether a recent change or an event,, spurs a large number of people into posting negative feedback all at once.

It's a difference between a protest organized by activists, and an angry mob that spills out into the streets. One is artificially incited and targeted, the other is a natural display of displeasure by many people simultaneously.

Both seem to be lumped together, when they shouldn't be. Targeted review bombs incited by inflammatory reports or a handful of upset bigots are bad. Hundreds of people being upset at something to the point of leaving a review, are usually a useful indicator that something went wrong.
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
It's neither good nor bad. It's simply a tool, like any other form of protest. The issues brought up are usually relatively minor, but so is the inconvenience created by the protest.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Review bombing has made user reviews obsolete and useless. They were rarely taken seriously before this trend, but now they're all but laughed at when discussing a game's reception. It's not a necessary evil. It's just the excuse most sites will use when they inevitably remove user scores. When that day comes nothing of value will have been lost.
This isn't true always. Steam have systems in place that allow you to see around review bombs. Their separation of lifetime and recent review also allows any fixes or updates to be reflected in more positive recent reviews.

MC user reviews are often a joke, though.

It depends on the platform.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
Review bombing is a small group of people attempting to manipulate a game's score so it does not reflect actual consensus, usually because this minority feels entitled to have the final word on a product's quality or on what's "good" or "bad" in the first place.

It's shit.
 

Azriell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,109
I'm a proponent of things that give power to the people, so in general I'm glad the option is there.

It is unfortunate that there are so many shit people who use this option in shitty ways. It is also unfortunate that review bombing a game for reason X will impact developers who have nothing to do with reason X. But the alternative--not having a voice--is worse.
 

Amauri14

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,696
Danbury, CT, USA
There is also the review bombing that are made to address a technical problem with the game or a change made after an update or when the developers abandon the game or close its multiplayer. Although I typically see this kind of review bombing happening mostly in Steam than anywhere else.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Review bombing is a small group of people attempting to manipulate a game's score so it does not reflect actual consensus, usually because this minority feels entitled to have the final word on a product's quality or on what's "good" or "bad" in the first place.

It's shit.
There are two examples above where review bombing led to positive change. The Arkham Knight example especially.

Would they really have pulled the game to fix it if the reviews hadn't been dropped so drastically? Their history of ignoring issues says probably not...
 

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
I certainly understand the temptation, particularly as a form of click-tivism (for many it's a means of protest more proactive than simply voting with the wallet). Rationally, Steam and Metacritic are probably not the best forum for that kind of discussion (particularly political discourse), but they are by far and away the most transparent and accessible.

It's not ideal, I grant you, but if a person feels they have no better way of making their concerns about a product known, then I wouldn't be the one to tell them no.
 
OP
OP
SchroDingerzat

SchroDingerzat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Sep 24, 2018
1,600
Here's one example of review bombing that could be seen as a more positive form of protest against some shitty publisher decisions:

www.pcgamer.com

Steam review bombing is working, and Chinese players are a powerful new voice

Flooding Steam reviews has become a popular form of protest, and now Chinese players are using reviews to demand localization.



And another:

Arkham Knight famously released in such a terrible state on PC that is was review bombed to hell and Warner Bros reacted by REMOVING the game from sale to fix it. Would they have done this if consumers hadn't hit back as they did?

news.softpedia.com

Batman: Arkham Knight PC Users Bomb Steam Reviews, Metacritic Due to Issues - Update

PC fans are angry over performance, stability, fps issues

We know very well that there have been many times that publishers have ignored glaring issues, often for years after release. Sometimes consumer frustration manifests in this way because there is a clear lack of productive communication and.or their calls are being outright ignored.

Those are some great examples.

I think it's important to distinguish review bombing and "review bombing". Review bombing is when a group of people instigates a community into massed negative (or positive) reviews to push an agenda. "Review bombing" is when something about the game, whether a recent change or an event,, spurs a large number of people into posting negative feedback all at once.

It's a difference between a protest organized by activists, and an angry mob that spills out into the streets. One is artificially incited and targeted, the other is a natural display of displeasure by many people simultaneously.

Both seem to be lumped together, when they shouldn't be. Targeted review bombs incited by inflammatory reports or a handful of upset bigots are bad. Hundreds of people being upset at something to the point of leaving a review, are usually a useful indicator that something went wrong.

I tried to do that, but I didn't articulate it well enough, so I apologise.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,316
Without review bombing, do we believe that Arkham Knight would've been fixed ? Do we really have to believe that gaming outlets would've made articles every day until WB do their job ?

If people have so much issues with review bombing, that means it's working as intended.
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
It is unfortunate that there are so many shit people who use this option in shitty ways. It is also unfortunate that review bombing a game for reason X will impact developers who have nothing to do with reason X. But the alternative--not having a voice--is worse.
That's probably because the not-shit people are too busy discussing whether or not it's a justifiable response that they never actually go out and do it.

Something something decorum
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,442
I say you should not buy games you don't want and get on with your life instead of wasting time "review bombing" games for whatever reason.

Video games isn't some sort of big crusade you are engaging with. Relax.
 

Yarbskoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,980
I say you should not buy games you don't want and get on with your life instead of wasting time "review bombing" games for whatever reason.

Video games isn't some sort of big crusade you are engaging with. Relax.
It's not like they're standing in the streets, they're just posting on a website like you did just now.
 

Kizuna

Member
Oct 27, 2017
550
Review bombing almost always boils down to essentially being an attempt by the "core" audience and devoted fans to leverage their amount of free time and commitment to a franchise to exercise outsized influence on the devs, by denying them some income from their casual audience, which doesn't read through reviews with a fine comb, but might look at the overall score before making a purchase decision.

it allows the hardcore audience to punch way above their actual "weight" within the customer base, and try and make themselves heard, "or else". I assume that for a franchise like Pokemon people who are really upset with Sw/Sh make up a somewhat insignificant fraction among the people who bought it, and that there are 10 happy kids who love their new monster-catching game for every one of them, but you'd never think that's the case if you just look at social media responses andMetacritic reviews.

It is an efficient strategy, and as someone generally on the "core" side of things, I can't bring myself to criticize it, as it often goes in line with my own opinions. Of course, review bombing can be used for illegitimate purposes, like campaigns by bigots, but in general, it's no more than a tool, everything depends on how it's used.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Ireland
It turns user reviews into a glorified approval rating system for gamers general feelings on the developer and their decisions which is disappointing and renders user reviews generally meaningless.
But I think it's also a problem that the gaming community often feels as if their concerns aren't being reflected in the games media and review bombing is the consumers only actual voice. Gamer's concerns often being childish or toxic muddies that thought a bit but there are certainly many legitimate issues that are widely discussed on forums but conspicuously missing from reviews.
 

Horned Reaper

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,560
If for example a developer is some shitty bigot, racist, homophobe or whatever then I don't mind it to be honest. If it's the other way around and a dev is speaking out against such things and gets review bombed, it is shitty of course. But I might buy the game eventhough I'm not even interested, just to support them.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
metacritic should just remove user scores, there's really no point to them. until you have a way of verifying someone actually owns the game, you'll get stuff like this:

screenshot2019-09-29afijqy.png

This is how many review bombers think.
Even review bombs for a good cause , say bombing a game for having MTX, lied to consumers etc, generally doesn't help as the overarching narrative around the game is what is driving the review bombs, as in, people would still have found out about all the terrible stuff without having bombers do their 0/10 reviews

So I don't see anything ethical about it.
 

banter

Member
Jan 12, 2018
4,127
Review bombing is never ok, there are better ways of getting whatever problems you have with the game acknowledged than falsely saying the game itself is bad when it isn't.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,252
Here's one example of review bombing that could be seen as a more positive form of protest against some shitty publisher decisions:

www.pcgamer.com

Steam review bombing is working, and Chinese players are a powerful new voice

Flooding Steam reviews has become a popular form of protest, and now Chinese players are using reviews to demand localization.



And another:

Arkham Knight famously released in such a terrible state on PC that is was review bombed to hell and Warner Bros reacted by REMOVING the game from sale to fix it. Would they have done this if consumers hadn't hit back as they did?

news.softpedia.com

Batman: Arkham Knight PC Users Bomb Steam Reviews, Metacritic Due to Issues - Update

PC fans are angry over performance, stability, fps issues

We know very well that there have been many times that publishers have ignored glaring issues, often for years after release. Sometimes consumer frustration manifests in this way because there is a clear lack of productive communication and.or their calls are being outright ignored.
Is that a targetted review bombing though or just people reacting to a game not releasing in their language or completely broken?
If a game released overe here without English language support then I'd expect it to get a high volume of negative reviews as well.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,046
To even give the act of "review bombing" any credibility, beyond the whining of petulant self-important adult babies, is to do too much.

Review bombing is neither ethical nor unethical. It's neither evil nor good. It's just fucking stupid. Giving a game a 0 on Amazon or MetaCritic for whatever you perceive the shortcomings of the game are, is not an act of protest, civil disobedience, consumer protection, or anything else, it's just masturbation. By no means should anybody stop reviewing bombing if that's what makes them happy or feel gratified, but there's no serious ethical conversation to be had around it.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,251
I like user reviews and impressions, but I don't tend to read them on Metacritic. The score is also often so skewed to the extremes on both ends. Doesn't help that you don't know if someone actually played the game. In that sense, I prefer the simplicity of recommend/don't recommend on Steam and that it also limits it to owners. A bit more digestible at a glance, and you have some degree of certainty that the reviewer spent some time with a game.

This is gonna be a bit of a tangent, but the distinction between on and off-topic review bombing is also relevant. So on Steam at least, it will filter out reviews that don't relate to the game as such once it's flagged. That makes it a bit more palatable, I suppose. On-topic "review bombing" is basically just a game being received negatively by its audience, whether it's for qualitative or more technical reasons.

There's a difference in what mass negative reviews from critics or users can say about the game. If a game just runs badly (when it shouldn't by all measures), it's worth leaving a negative review for. See Monster Hunter World PC at launch. Good reviews from publications; negative reviews from players who, despite being within system requirement margins, got very uneven performance. That's valid, I think, and tells me as much about the experience of playing the game as a critic's review on the more esoteric aspects of the game.

I've read some comments from developers as well as (potential) consumers themselves about being unhappy when reviews do take this approach and while I do understand where they're coming from, that is nonetheless that player's experience. A user review is not per se reflective of the quality of a game within the context of the pantheon of all other games, its predecessors, the zeitgeist, etc. But that can skew both positively and negatively. Plenty of games that would've barely squeaked by with a 6 critically have generally favorable reviews regardless.

This type of user-dependent variability doesn't always tell you something about the underlying quality of the game, but if that's the only thing you care about there are plenty of professional reviews you can turn to. User reviews tend to get a bad rap for this, but I think it's a matter of setting expectations. Even if individual reviews are lacking, there is value in being able to sample a large collection of brief non-holistic opinions. Scrolling through multiple user reviews, you can usually get a good sense of the quality of a game, even if no single review is on its own informative enough to make a judgement on whether you'll purchase it.

So (on-topic) user reviews reflecting just the user's experience only makes sense. Distancing your own experience with a game for the sake of writing a more "legitimate" or generalizable review is not the point of user reviews, I think. So expecting them to adhere to abstract concepts of validity would diminish the accessibility and value of collective micro critiques and what these say about a game's reception.
 
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Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,900
I'm against it when it's alt-right trolls that are triggered about something but tbh they don't seem to have the influence they used to so movies, games and shows that should piss them off still manage to have high audience scores these days.

For everything else I'm fine with it for the most part. It's also very easy to determine what the criticism is and whether it is coming from an honest place. If it's some propaganda effort or alt-right bullshit it can be spotted a mile away.
 

LAA

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,340
Eh it's a tool which people can choose to use well or not, I see it up to the reader to decide it's worth or not other than removing it entirely, and it's a case of where we draw the line? Sometimes I think there is valid reasons, others not.

I dont have much of a problem with others doing it, though it depends for what reason the bombing is done which I can usually judge for myself.
Like I remember GTA V being bombed for banning mods all of a sudden and really, glad it did, we probably wouldn't have got mods back otherwise, so dont really see the argument for saying its a waste of time, just see it as a way to express a view, grievance and to me, that is a valid thing to give negative reviews over, I'd certainly want to know if a feature was being removed before buying it.
However of course, there is some.. maybe a lot where they're used badly and for stupid reasons, like Somnium Files recently and just by one person too... or women being in some BF game and usual platform war bs.

So I'm not in favour of removing the users voice entirely.. maybe they could remove the score section and just change it to red for negative, yellow for mixed and green for positive comments? Thought it's still be the same problem with a page possibly being shown in red unjustifiably at times and I'm not as sure publishers would react to justified bombs without their precious scores being affected.

Really I'm fine with judging each scenario myself rather than the website/tool deciding for me if something is valid or not. Though at least in my case, I'd likely know about the issues before reviews went up, but the average consumer may rely on review sites?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Is that a targetted review bombing though or just people reacting to a game not releasing in their language or completely broken?
If a game released overe here without English language support then I'd expect it to get a high volume of negative reviews as well.
Yes it is. In both instances (Arkahm especially) people were rallying others to take part, on reddit, in discords, on gaf at the time, etc...
 

Goddo Hando

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,723
Chicago
bombs away, i don't read user reviews anyway

if critics review bombed it would be another thing, and there are more than enough critic reviews (some games have 90+ reviews) that if you're looking for a varied opinion you'll find it without clicking on the user tab
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
Without review bombing, do we believe that Arkham Knight would've been fixed ? Do we really have to believe that gaming outlets would've made articles every day until WB do their job ?

If people have so much issues with review bombing, that means it's working as intended.
Arkham Knight isn't really an example of review bombing though. It got mostly negative reviews because it was a terrible PC port, but that's not review bombing, that's just it being badly received. By that logic, any badly received game gets "review bombed".
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,316
Arkham Knight isn't really an example of review bombing though. It got mostly negative reviews because it was a terrible PC port, but that's not review bombing, that's just it being badly received.


It is review bombing. It's the act of giving bad reviews. In fact, I remember a lot of people saying here that "user reviews should focus only on the game quality, not the technical issues".
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,982
Arkham Knight isn't really an example of review bombing though. It got mostly negative reviews because it was a terrible PC port, but that's not review bombing, that's just it being badly received. By that logic, any badly received game gets "review bombed".
It absolutely is.

People were rallying each other. I was invited to a large chat group where people were making a concerted effort to encourage others to do this, for example.

Posts and threads encouraging it were all over the place.