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The Epic Monopoly - How Epic Store Exclusives are bringing console wars to PC

NNN

NNN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
256


I agree with that guy. Epic buying exclusivity from third-party will not make them gain more customers in an open platform like PC, it will backfire and make the players not want to use their launcher (see the Metro drama)

I believe with better pricing and deals, (and OFC better launcher) they'd compete with Steam and maybe even be able to win the consumers
 
Ploid 6.0

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
But not really, though if I had to do something like buy a Gsync monitor to play epic games, that would be equivalent.

Thank goodness I can buy a freesync monitor now without worrying if any future nvidia cards will work with it.

Nvidia vs everyone else, the real people bringing consoles to PC.
 
Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,160
China
lFRqB11.gif
 
etta

etta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,512
If I remember correctly, Valve too did some shady shit at the beginning, but then again so did Microsoft with GWL, which failed, so...
 
Tbm24

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,564
The epic launcher is a free download. It's not comparable to having to buy a console for $3-400 to access a specific title.

Yes I'm responding to the title/thread premise.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
No it's not a monopoly. The PC market is getting segmented with bought store exclusivity.
Which doesn't benefit anyone, because there is no competition that pushes each other
to better prices or better clientfunctions.
 
water_wendi

water_wendi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,354
Valve brought console wars to PC gaming when they put a virtual platform on an existing platform.
 
TheClaw7667

TheClaw7667

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,737
water_wendi said:
Valve brought console wars to PC gaming when they put a virtual platform on an existing platform.
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And thankfully they did. No one else at that point in time gave a fuck about PC gaming. Every day developers and publishers were saying PC gaming was dead.

If it wasn't for Valve and Steam what would PC gaming look like now?
 
Ploid 6.0

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
I remember hating steamwork games because I had to open steam to play the game. Shogun 2 was one. I'm still not a fan of having to launch steam to play games, but these days I just launch steam because I was trained to, and I also like the steam controller for games that are FPS, fighting games, or driving games. Linux people have a awesome driver to be able to use the steam controller without steam running. I just hope some third party create a alternative with a right touch pad, gyro, and triggers.
 
Muad'dib

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
Tbm24 said:
The epic launcher is a free download. It's not comparable to having to buy a console for $3-400 to access a specific title.

Yes I'm responding to the title/thread premise.
Click to expand...
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water_wendi said:
Valve brought console wars to PC gaming when they put a virtual platform on an existing platform.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Let me put it as simple as possible, before Steam I couldn't buy PC games legit, after Steam I could with Steam cards, with Epic I can't buy Metro Exodus because I don't have a CC, people in Argentina and China can't even access it.

Don't care how bad Valve hurt your feelings, Epic is ruining it with segmenting the market while Valve allowed people in third world countries rife with piracy to buy legit games.
 

Deleted member 2802

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,729
There's room for two in the US and EU I think.
IDK what happens to the Twitch and Discord stores.

Not even sure what they are using in Korea, India and China.
But win those markets - win the war.
 
OutForTheNight2

OutForTheNight2

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
97
It's crazy how console players always miss the mark of these threads and come in to shitpost. Best thing about it is that mods will let them post all sorts of nonsense with no facts or backing them up but if that were to be vice versa, PC players would be warned/banned
 
AHA-Lambda

AHA-Lambda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,845
Epic would do well to remember the maxim that "you attract more flies with honey than vinegar", cos right now everyone is just plain pissed off at them.

And because it has to be repeated endlessly, making your own self-funded content exclusive to your own platform is fine (i.e. Half Life 2 on Steam, Battlefield on Origin, Fortnite on Epic etc) but buying rights for someone else's content in order to not appear on other platforms is just plain scummy.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,938
USA
Epic leveraged their install base due to Fortnite. With Fortnite seeing increase competition, particularly from Apex Legends, that install base is going to take a hit.
 
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,157
Video is decent, but a little unfocused, and it does make objective statements about subjective issues (ie GOG is 'better' than Steam).

I'm just still amazed that Epic Store launched with the stated goal "to advance the cause of all developers", but then they are signing deals like the Metro Exodus one that developers have absolutely no say over, and in fact cause developers a great deal of hardship. 4A were not consulted whatsoever when Epic signed it as an exclusive, Epic went over their head entirely, with no regard for how it would impact the developer.

Regarding the revenue split, there's a thorough video here from Hoeg Law (following on from a conversation I had with him) on why the 88 to 70 comparison is not the full picture.

 
Arsene no Kiseki

Arsene no Kiseki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,003
Canada
shira said:
There's room for two in the US and EU I think.
IDK what happens to the Twitch and Discord stores.

Not even sure what they are using in Korea, India and China.
But win those markets - win the war.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Epic isn't available in China but Steam is (Unofficially, But there's an official Chinese Steam store coming later this year)

Any Chinese players who were excited for the games Epic paid off are basically being told to fuck off, definitely the best way to win the market.
 
AfropunkNyc

AfropunkNyc

Member
Nov 15, 2017
3,958
I side with Steam. Steam was the reason why i abandon gen 7 console gaming and got into PC gaming, which i still feel today was a good idea. Valve made PC gaming competent and i shall remain with them. Epic has a long way to go to build a loyalty base as steam has.
 
ProstatePuncher

ProstatePuncher

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,800
Tbm24 said:
The epic launcher is a free download. It's not comparable to having to buy a console for $3-400 to access a specific title.

Yes I'm responding to the title/thread premise.
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You really think the Epic launcher is "free"? You're the same type of person who thinks that downloading a free app to your phone is no strings attached. There's always usage data and other shit applications will pull, and the Epic launcher and store is no different from this. You're always being squeezed for something. Plus there's the risk of data breaches. Why sign up for another service when that only spreads your info further and wider?

Not everyone wants to sign up to that.
 
water_wendi

water_wendi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,354
Muad'dib said:
Let me put it as simple as possible, before Steam I couldn't buy PC games legit, after Steam I could with Steam cards, with Epic I can't buy Metro Exodus because I don't have a CC, people in Argentina and China can't even access it.

Don't care how bad Valve hurt your feelings, Epic is ruining it with segmenting the market while Valve allowed people in third world countries rife with piracy to buy legit games.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What about the people that benefit from Epics pricing in territories Valve hasnt paid attention to?
 
water_wendi

water_wendi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,354
60EffPeeEss said:
You really think the Epic launcher is "free"? You're the same type of person who thinks that downloading a free app to your phone is no strings attached. There's always usage data and other shit applications will pull, and the Epic launcher and store is no different from this. You're always being squeezed for something. Plus there's the risk of data breaches. Why sign up for another service when that only spreads your info further and wider?

Not everyone wants to sign up to that.
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It never ceases to amaze me that nearly every single argument i made against Steam has been repacked as something to use against a rival store a decade later.
 
TheClaw7667

TheClaw7667

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,737
water_wendi said:
Wow and MMOs sucked the oxygen out of the room.
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MMO's are a very specific genre that didn't work well on consoles at the time. And are live services that are not easily pirated like single player games. I don't believe those were the reason PC gaming had a resurgence. It was a time where publishers weren't porting their games at all. And if they decided too, it would be months after the console release and be a shoddy port.
 
Ploid 6.0

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Duxxy3 said:
Epic leveraged their install base due to Fortnite. With Fortnite seeing increase competition, particularly from Apex Legends, that install base is going to take a hit.
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Training kids that they don't have to tie themselves to steam. Good. Origin, Uplay, Epic Games, GOG, websites where the developer publish their games. So many flavors of play on the PC, no restrictions unless it's self imposed, or your country has restrictions and whatever rules for selling to it's citizens. Blizzard had to do a lot of specific things to sell in China it seem. Grinding Gear Games had to as well.
 

Deleted member 3038

Oct 25, 2017
3,569
Tbm24 said:
The epic launcher is a free download. It's not comparable to having to buy a console for $3-400 to access a specific title.

Yes I'm responding to the title/thread premise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
shira said:
There's room for two in the US and EU I think.
IDK what happens to the Twitch and Discord stores.

Not even sure what they are using in Korea, India and China.
But win those markets - win the war.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
^ This pretty much sums up my thoughts. Competition is always good, regardless of how it's accomplished. I could care less if Epic payed for X game to be on there because at the end of the day, if I want to play it, I'll just buy it. When EGS starts to have a bigger install base & more devs decide to release titles on both, then we'll start seeing an interesting push in the PC Gaming market, but you can't join a race that started almost 2 decades ago and not do something to catch up.

water_wendi said:
It never ceases to amaze me that nearly every single argument i made against Steam has been repacked as something to use against a rival store a decade later.
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Click to shrink...

That's the same generic argument you can hear for almost anything. "Why Use X so they can steal your data?!?!" Everyone tracks data, and the average consumer probably has an entire profile built on them just off of the big 3 (Google / Amazon / Facebook) so I don't really see how a games launcher is the one that'll break your back in terms of consumer privacy.
 
AHA-Lambda

AHA-Lambda

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,845
Ploid 6.0 said:
Training kids that they don't have to tie themselves to steam. Good. Origin, Uplay, Epic Games, GOG, websites where the developer publish their games. So many flavors of play on the PC, no restrictions unless it's self imposed, or your country has restrictions and whatever rules for selling to it's citizens. Blizzard had to do a lot of specific things to sell in China it seem. Grinding Gear Games had to as well.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

yeah you're right, that's an incredible amount of choice on offer.

Oh wait remind me, where is the only place I can play Metro Exodus right now on PC, thanks to a last minute underhanded moneyhat?
 
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,414
SoftTaur said:
I wish getting a new console was as easy as downloading an .exe file!
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Tbm24 said:
The epic launcher is a free download. It's not comparable to having to buy a console for $3-400 to access a specific title.

Yes I'm responding to the title/thread premise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


It's not just a launcher or a .exe.
it is a walled garden storefront from a developer who already abandoned PC gaming once. Just this weekend razor gamestore closed. What happens when Fortnite tanks? what happens when there are not enough willing customers to make those exclusives profitable?

The whole discoverability is everything era hates (youtube and twitch referrals as a main type of discoverability from influencers out of devs pockets)
It is not an indie haven, only big players and proven indies are getting into it.

"just another launcher" falls flat on its face if you think about the implications of USING all those launchers.
Battlenet is just a launcher
Bethesda is just a launcher
Origin is just a Launcher
uplay is just a launcher
every single-game multiplayer launcher is just a launcher
all those launchers are for publishers own games, they don't need eyes on their storefront most of the time.

Steam, Gog, Discord, Twitch, EGS, itch.io are Storefronts that need customers eyes on their pages. But how many do you have constantly installed, How MANY do you actively open every day, how MANY do you look at every day?

Maybe it IS just a launcher for you, but certainly not for devs trying to sell their product. They NEED the eyes on that storefront. And the more storefronts (excluding key selling sites) there are, the more fractured your potential customer base becomes.
not even getting into fractured release versions on different storefronts, with different patches and different features.
 
Scuffed

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,079
So far there aren't any games that have made me keep the launcher installed. I did for a week to get subnautica free but I never got around to playing it so I uninstalled the launcher. I'm not making a stand or anything it just doesn't seem to be a fleshed out service that I am interested in building a library on.
 
OutForTheNight2

OutForTheNight2

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
97
Zexion said:
^ This pretty much sums up my thoughts. Competition is always good, regardless of how it's accomplished. I could care less if Epic payed for X game to be on there because at the end of the day, if I want to play it, I'll just buy it. When EGS starts to have a bigger install base & more devs decide to release titles on both, then we'll start seeing an interesting push in the PC Gaming market, but you can't join a race that started almost 2 decades ago and not do something to catch up.



That's the same generic argument you can hear for almost anything. "Why Use X so they can steal your data?!?!" Everyone tracks data, and the average consumer probably has an entire profile built on them just off of the big 3 (Google / Amazon / Facebook) so I don't really see how a games launcher is the one that'll break your back in terms of consumer privacy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Lol, uplay, origin, gog and others started all after steam and have great userbases without having to delve down and do stupid shit like this
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Epic should totally bring it. Then we can see how these two opposing ethos "compete" over time in the open market.
 
R0987

R0987

Avenger
Jan 20, 2018
2,843
With all these launchers launching (pun intended) left and right can the pc still be considered a single platform?
 
Zukuu

Zukuu

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,809
All they have to do is making sure publishers offer their games 5 bucks cheaper than on steam. As is, as a customer you have no added value using Epic over Steam. The opposite is the case, in fact,.
 
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,157
water_wendi said:
Valve brought console wars to PC gaming when they put a virtual platform on an existing platform.
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It was needed because Microsoft was (and still is) being actively hostile towards PC gaming.
Zukuu said:
All they have to do is making sure publishers offer their games 5 bucks cheaper than on steam. As is, as a customer you have no added value using Epic over Steam. The opposite is the case, in fact,.
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There is language in the Steam developer agreement requiring devs do not do that (language along the lines of "You cannot treat Steam customers worse than customers from elsewhere" in reference to pricing). Because Steam terms are designed around doing what is best for their users.
 

Deleted member 3038

Oct 25, 2017
3,569
OutForTheNight2 said:
Lol, uplay, origin, gog and others started all after steam and have great userbases without having to delve down and do stupid shit like this
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They also had extremely massive studios behind them that would self-publish it while also publishing on steam. Hell, Uplay still has 1-1 sync with steam, where you can launch your steam purchased copies on the Uplay client.

League was from an era where F2P games would always have their own launchers due to no centralized form (Smite had it's own launcher before Hi-Rez decided to port it over to steam)

GOG's one draw is that it was DRM-Free Titles, and it also had the draw of having it's own games published on there (But they also have issues with allowing any content on there, highly restrictive like EGS)
 
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